How do satellites fly over flat land?

How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?

How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?

And sometimes telephone communications via satellites. But more importantly, mobile satellite phones, i.e. at places without landlines and cellular network reception (like uninhabited islands, high in the mountains, etc.).

How does the model of flat ground explain that we are watching satellite TV, and the most important is that we use the Internet through satellites?

It doesn't!

Though internet services in most populated areas are via either cable or the wireless cellphone network.

It doesn't!

And how then?
To deny that satellites exist very hard. If there were no satellites for the Internet, then you could say anything, but so ... What does the classical theory of flat land say about this?

Quote

It doesn't!

And how then?
To deny that satellites exist very hard. If there were no satellites for the Internet, then you could say anything, but so ... What does the classical theory of flat land say about this?

The FAQ has this:

What About the ISS and Satellites?
While one can see satellites in the sky at night, it is generally agreed upon that they are not actual satellites but pseudolites or stratolites put there to fool us.

And they try to claim that GPS and satellite TV and phone services is all provided via ground stations, such as cell-phone towers, or "balloons".

The FAQ has this:

Quote

What About the ISS and Satellites?
While one can see satellites in the sky at night, it is generally agreed upon that they are not actual satellites but pseudolites or stratolites put there to fool us.

The ISS stratolite would need to fly in about 90 minutes one “circle” above the flat earth. This is about twice the equator size in 90 minutes; about 27’000 km/h. Constant course corrections would be required to maintain its equator centered sinus curve course relative to flat earth’s surface. Therefore, lots of fuel/energy consumption.

And they try to claim that GPS and satellite TV and phone services is all provided via ground stations, such as cell-phone towers, or "balloons".

Per TV satellite/balloon all dishes are aligned to the same point in space 36‘000 km above the earth. Currently, a satellite dish’s alignment must be accurate to less than 1 degree. With balloons at 50 km altitude in the stratolayer, this would require about 1 balloon every kilometer; therefore, several hundreds of thousand or even millions of ballons per country per TV “satellite”. If they are nearer than 50 km, more balloons are required.

But, this could be tested with a mobile satellite dish. In fact, there is no satellite/balloon reception, if the dish is not aligned. Therefore, the ballon density is much less than described above. But then, at a location further away - e.g. 100 km - the dish alignment must be different when using the same TV “satellite”. It mustn’t, therefore, the satellite/balloon is much further away.

Therefore, no satellite TV balloons.

Technically, geosynchronous satellites would not be a problem for an unaccelerated flat earth. Without gravity, you would only need to put them into space and there they are. But any other satellite or space station would be impossible, because it would need lots of fuel/energy to maintain its course relative to flat earth’s surface.

With UA, any satellite is impossible, because it would need lots of fuel/energy to keep its distance from earth.

Sorry, I do not speak English. Because it is actually difficult for me to deal with such a huge number of topics and information in them. That is why I asked this question.
Due to the fact that satellites exist, I'm 100% sure. As well as the fact that there are satellite TV and the Internet.
Only here is how they fly? Do they tell us the whole truth? As well as about why in the space can not see the stars?
Having studied this question from different points of view. I began to understand how the presence of satellites over our flat land is explained. It turns out that this is not a problem at all. As many people think. And they do not need a lot of fuel.
Satellites do not fly above us in fact, they hang in one place. They absolutely hang at those points where they were hung. Flying in a low orbit is only one single mock-up of the ISS. And this is a piece of ordinary iron without people.
You do not believe that the Bible talks about quantum mechanics. And you know what Merkaba is. Read the ancient scriptures. That should understand what I'm talking about. And why do the satellitesstill weigh and do not fall to the ground, and a piece of iron under the name of the ISS flies.

Yes, like I wrote, geostationary (sorry, I wrote geosynchronous above; that was wrong) satellites, which do not move relative to the flat earth surface, could just hang there.With the requirement, that UA is not true. And earth does not rotate.

But what about all the other satellites at other orbits, e.g. like LEO? Over a flat earth, they must change course permanently, which would be very fuel/energy inefficient and would reduce their lifetime dramatically; not years, but days.

Sorry, I do not speak English. Because it is actually difficult for me to deal with such a huge number of topics and information in them. That is why I asked this question.
Due to the fact that satellites exist, I'm 100% sure. As well as the fact that there are satellite TV and the Internet.
Only here is how they fly? Do they tell us the whole truth? As well as about why in the space can not see the stars?
Having studied this question from different points of view. I began to understand how the presence of satellites over our flat land is explained. It turns out that this is not a problem at all. As many people think. And they do not need a lot of fuel.
Satellites do not fly above us in fact, they hang in one place. They absolutely hang at those points where they were hung. Flying in a low orbit is only one single mock-up of the ISS. And this is a piece of ordinary iron without people.
You do not believe that the Bible talks about quantum mechanics. And you know what Merkaba is. Read the ancient scriptures. That should understand what I'm talking about. And why do the satellitesstill weigh and do not fall to the ground, and a piece of iron under the name of the ISS flies.

Well, I'm glad you've got it all worked out.

Where's the stuff about quantum mechanics in the bible then?  Is it this verse:

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.

I agree with Dirk for the most part, but I actually want to answer the question regarding satellites. Satellites are not what we are told. They do not exist the way they tell us they do. Satellite T.V, Satellite phones, and many other services such as GPS. Can work by using space wave technology. We can bounce waves off atmosphere above us to several types of land based instruments. I would also like to make note, that I have made a call through a satellite phone before. The service is quite laggy and patchy. So Lets debate this some more.

Satellites do not fly above us in fact, they hang in one place. They absolutely hang at those points where they were hung.

That would only work for geostationary satellites.
All other satellites do not remain above the same point.
This includes satellites people rely upon quite often for GPS.

You also have no mechanism for how they hang.
Or how the signals are aligned for a FE rather than a round one. If Earth were flat the vast majority of dishes are pointing the wrong way.

You do not believe that the Bible talks about quantum mechanics.

No I don't, as it doesn't.
All we have are attempts to pretend it does.

And why do the satellitesstill weigh and do not fall to the ground, and a piece of iron under the name of the ISS flies.

They orbit a round Earth. They are "falling" it is just that while they "fall", they move so far sideways, the curvature of Earth means they are still at the same altitude.

Satellite T.V, Satellite phones, and many other services such as GPS. Can work by using space wave technology. We can bounce waves off atmosphere above us

Except space waves are those which do not get bounced by the atmosphere and thus allow transmission to space, so the exact opposite of what you need.

Even if this was viable, it would only provide for services where the satellites are meant to be keeping a fixed position.
For GPS, they are not, and satellites come into and out of view. GPS cannot be faked by your magic non-space waves.
And the angles still don't add up.

The service is quite laggy and patchy. So Lets debate this some more.

Yes, the service typically will be quite laggy. This is due to how the packets have to travel.
As for being patchy, one downfall of satellite technology is that they need to penetrate the atmosphere and any obstructions. This makes it difficult to use inside, and the signal is typically much weaker (due to the greater distance), which is why good ones have large transceivers.
Do you think them being laggy and patchy is an issue for a RE?

Stop stop. Let's sort it out in order. I specifically wanted to hear the views of both sides.

Are you all sure how our world works? Who among you knows that in the gardens, without singing birds, the trees cease to bear fruit?

I'm really sorry for those, who believe in flat land, but for the sake of blind faith denies the obvious facts.

And now I will ask those who believe in the ball - are you ready to answer before God for misleading others?

All that we see around can equally be explained as the fact that we live both on the plane and on the ball. There are no differences in the phenomena that we see. But phenomena are not laws of physics.

All those who believe in the ball do not want to admit that some laws of physics simply will not work for the ball.

And now I will make happy those who believe in flat land. But please apologize for my English

I affirm that according to the laws of physics that operate on our flat land, satellites fly without problems over us.

And I will say more. Just satellites and can not fly around the ball! Since this contradicts what we know from physics.

It is not paradoxical - everyone who believes in flat land refutes the presence of satellites. Although this is the strongest argument that the earth is not a ball. A is a plane.

I see this all the time. People are ready to argue endlessly about what they even have no idea about. Instead of studying this question from the nutria.

Sorry, I'm breaking the message into parts - it's hard for me to write in English.

Commercial development of the GPS direction - gives absolute positioning with the greatest accuracy up to tens of centimeters.
With this accuracy, the course of the atomic clock must be so stable that the theory (special theory of relativity) and (general theory of relativity) do not work.
In this case, only works (Lorentz ether theory).
The rest of the work of the GPS decided experimentally.
Therefore algorithms for GPS use in their calculations the earth only as flat and motionless.
When using ground rotation, GPS does not work as a positional one.
In other words, one of the factors is that their work on precise positioning is impossible over a moving ball.

Learn the originals of the works of Ronald Ray Hatch and his biography. And you yourself will understand why satellites fly only over flat land.

I think for those who believe in a flat land these arguments about satellites will be enough. To believe that satellites exist above us.

And those who believe in the ball - sorry - you do not believe that our world was created by God, because I will not explain here the whole nature of the physical laws that allow satellites to behave this way.
Moreover, we are deceived both with the form of the earth and with the trajectory of the satellites. They do fly, but not as they tell us. And still you will not believe in it and will again assert that our earth is a ball.

You also have no mechanism for how they hang.

I have an explanation of how they hang
As well as they fly at an altitude above 200 kilometers.

The International Space Station is just a model flying above our head. People are not there. As I said before, this is the only pridmet that flies in such a low orbit and soon it will fall.


The angle of lifting all the antennas we have in Ukraine does not meet the ball, and corresponds to the fact that the satellites are above the flat ground. They have an angle of direction higher than it is necessary according to official sources.

And those who believe in the ball - sorry - you do not believe that our world was created by God, because I will not explain here the whole nature of the physical laws that allow satellites to behave this way.

And just what gives you the divine authority to make a judgement like that?
Are you claiming that all those involved in the Creation Ministries International site "you do not believe that our world was created by God".

Creation Ministries International (CMI) exists to support the effective proclamation of the Gospel by providing credible answers that affirm the reliability of the Bible, in particular its Genesis history.
Creation Ministries International (CMI)

The whole purpose of that site is to defend the "young earth creation". You have completely ignored this:

Maybe you could read more of what others think: The Creation.com site is dedicated to "young earth creationism" but has a lot of anti-flat earth material, mainly on historical evidence, see
         The flat earth myth.
         Creation Ministries, The flat-earth myth and creationism         
         A flat earth, and other nonsense, Dealing with ideas that would not exist were it not for the Internet
and
         Flat Earth Myth - More Bogus History, Creating  Bogus  History, What is the Myth About the Flat Earth ?

Moreover, we are deceived both with the form of the earth and with the trajectory of the satellites. They do fly, but not as they tell us. And still you will not believe in it and will again assert that our earth is a ball.

Yes, I will "will again assert that our earth is a" Globe as have people far more knowledgeable than I at what the Scriptures teach.

Very committed Christians like the Venerable Bede, John Calvin and Martin Luther certainly believed the earth to be a Globe.

We call the earth a globe, not as if the shape of a sphere were expressed in the diversity of plains and mountains, but because, if all things are included in the outline, the earth’s circumference will represent the figure of a perfect globe. … For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe; in its width it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball, and it extends from its centre with perfect roundness on all sides.
<< from:  The flat earth myth. >>

And look at the introduction to John Calvin's Commentary on Genesis - Volume 1.

Page 25,26:
We indeed are not ignorant, that the circuit of the heavens is finite, and that the earth, like a little globe, is placed in the center.

Page 55:
In the meantime, however, the benediction of God so prevails that the earth everywhere lies open that it may have its inhabitants, and that an immense multitude of men may find, in some part of the globe, their home.

Page 73:
From this difficulty, some would free themselves by saying, that the surface of the globe may have been changed by the deluge;

All from: Commentary on Genesis - Volume 1, Author: Calvin, John (1509-1564)

It would appear that John Calvin certainly believed the earth to be a Globe, as did most people of his day.
And in LUTHER ON THE CREATION, A CRITICAL AND DEVOTIONAL COMMENTARY ON GENESIS, Martin Luther leaves no doubt the he believed and taught the Ptolemaic System with its spherical earth.

I guess you think that your interpretation of the Scriptures is better than that of the Venerable Bede, Martin Luther and John Calvin. I claim no such expertise.

And you might read:

Who Invented the Flat Earth?

Evolutionists often falsely accuse creationists of believing in a flat Earth. But neither history nor modern scholarship supports the claim that Christians ever widely believed that the Earth was flat. And the Bible doesn’t teach it.
<< Read the rest in: Answers in Genesis, Who Invented the Flat Earth? >>

About the author: Adapted by Ian Taylor for Creation Science Association of Ontario, Feature No. 30, from the book Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus & Modern Historians (ISBN 027595904X), by history professor Jeffrey Burton Russell. Summarized by Paula McKerlie. Further modified March 2004.

So, you are at liberty to believe and depart what you like.

You are, however, being unScriptural to claim that you have a divine right to set yourself up to judge others in this way.
Bye bye. There is no point in saying more!

Maybe I'm wrong but that's what's on on the roofs.



This is a direct focus antenna.

 rabinoz - Do you understand that I can not use the extensive materials in English?
I communicate with difficulty, not speaking to study theology in English ...

Why all translate into a different plane? We generally discuss satellites.
Anyway.
I was glad to talk with you - rabinoz, you brought quite strong arguments which made me look at everything differently and look for more complete proof that the earth is not a ball. Which did not come to my mind earlier.

And I am ready to answer for my words before God.

Sorry, I see that not everyone likes my theories. The existence of satellites is the strongest argument for or against the existence of flat land. He can either break the whole theory, or just the opposite, to affirm it as unshakable. And there is no sense in all the other evidence then - until this dispute is resolved. It's silly to say that there are no satellites, but it's also foolish to say that we know everything about them, since the information is classified and secret..
It is very difficult for me to communicate here because of ignorance of the language, I have my own vision of how everything is arranged. The main information I published to someone interested in more details on how to fly satellites over flat land without violating the laws of physics and as they say about quantum mechanics in the Bible I can tell already with personal communication.

rabinoz - Do you understand that I can not use the extensive materials in English?
I communicate with difficulty, not speaking to study theology in English ...

I'm sorry but there's little that I can do to help there.
But remember that John Calvin was French, though he fled to Strasburg to escape the Roman Church and
Martin Luther was regarded as not only as the "Father of the Reformation" but the "Father of the German Language".
And the time much communication was done in Latin.
So I'm sure this and all similar material is available in many languages. Sometimes Google translate can help, but it's far from infallible.

I don't know how to put this but, I am quite convinced that one's belief in the shape of the earth and many related issues is quite irrelevant to one's salvation. The early Church (yes, it was the "Roman" church - there was little else then) had considerable discussion on this matter and the consensus was that they accepted that the earth was a Globe, hence the writings of the Venerable Bede, a n English Monk and astronomer were classed as important.
The "shape of the earth" was never treated as "an article of faith", though the earth's being stationary at the centre of the Universe was. So we have

For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe;

I know of many relevant references to this sort of thing, but only in English, I'm afraid. Maybe there others in your country that you can discuss this with.
But I do not accept that Scripture was ever intended to be a Science or Cosmological textbook and was written in a way that the Children of Israel could understand.

I've said more than enough. I think you need someone local to discuss things with.

Are you all sure how our world works?

We don't need to know every single detail to know if Earth is round, or various other things.

Who among you knows that in the gardens, without singing birds, the trees cease to bear fruit?

No one.
That is because trees can continue to bear fruit without singing birds.

And now I will ask those who believe in the ball - are you ready to answer before God for misleading others?

Your god would have to answer to me for why it allows such evil to occur.
Why does this god apparently not give a damn, happily allowing people to con others for their own gain?

I am not misleading anyone.

All that we see around can equally be explained as the fact that we live both on the plane and on the ball.

Only if you manipulate the plane to act like a ball.

All those who believe in the ball do not want to admit that some laws of physics simply will not work for the ball.

Such as?
I'm yet to find any. The only thing which comes close is the behaviour of gravity/dark matter at large scales, but that has no bearing on if Earth is round or not.

Just satellites and can not fly around the ball! Since this contradicts what we know from physics.

Satellites orbit around Earth (a round Earth) under the known laws of physics. They do not contradict physics for a RE at all.

Although this is the strongest argument that the earth is not a ball.

Except I am yet to find an explanation for how they work for a FE, the pictures from many of them clearly show Earth is round, and the angles don't match for a FE.

With this accuracy, the course of the atomic clock must be so stable that the theory (special theory of relativity) and (general theory of relativity) do not work.

You are confusing stable for the satellite with stable for the universe. There stability doesn't mean relativity is wrong.
All I have found on them indicate that they include a correction for relativity, so it would show it does work.

The rest of the work of the GPS decided experimentally.
Therefore algorithms for GPS use in their calculations the earth only as flat and motionless.

No, it is based upon the satellites position when they send the signal and how long the signal takes to reach the receiver.
It isn't something that can be done experimentally as you would need to redo it for each location.

When using ground rotation, GPS does not work as a positional one.

No, it works just fine, as the satellite positions used in the calculation are relative to Earth.

And you yourself will understand why satellites fly only over flat land.

Or you could explain how, rather than having us try to look through everything for it.

And those who believe in the ball - sorry - you do not believe that our world was created by God

Plenty of people accept Earth is round and still believe in a god.

I will not explain here the whole nature of the physical laws that allow satellites to behave this way.

Then don't suggest they work for a FE.

I have an explanation of how they hang
As well as they fly at an altitude above 200 kilometers.

Then provide it.

The angle of lifting all the antennas we have in Ukraine does not meet the ball, and corresponds to the fact that the satellites are above the flat ground. They have an angle of direction higher than it is necessary according to official sources.

Do you have any evidence for that?
So far all I have seen myself are at the correct angle.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's what's on on the roofs.

It could be a satellite dish, but you can't tell what way it is pointing from that photo.
When I first saw it it appeared to be facing away from the camera, but upon closer inspection with google maps, it is clearly pointing south, not north.
All I can tell you is that it is pointing up quite high.

I'm not referring to the direction. That's it that all the antennas are very high raised. This can be clearly seen from this pryamofokusnoy antennas.
Likely that the last I will tell. It `s that. That satellites fly in the proportion of magnetic lines. We have a more complex world structure. It is described in detail in the scriptures.
Satellites just fly by the principle described in them.
And the earth's core can not generate a magnetic field - since heated above 800 degrees - read the physics. We have external magnetic fields. The earth is inside them.
I thank everyone who participated in the discussion.

I photographed it myself.

I photographed it myself.

I was just analyzing the area myself via Google Maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5080713,32.2610943,3a,15y,52.97h,102.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scdqCVeRxKo9KmAOpcr7-Fg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The satellite dish you are referring (the one on the left of your photo) is mounted upside down and pointing to a western direction for central europe instead of ukrainian satellite TV. The high angle is, because the antenna receiver arm is on the top, intead of on the bottom.

As you can see in your photo, there are satellite dishes on the right side of the roof pointing in a southern direction at a lower angle. See also (same area):
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5089242,32.2598213,3a,44.7y,322.69h,95.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syZLrUlKSBj62TsBDom3FPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Therefore, it is not true, that all satellite dishes are pointing up high. Maybe only the ones pointing in a western direction and/or being mounted upside down.

The inverted satellite dish mount is used when the satellite is lower in the sky. This is the case at locations far in the north (or south) - which is not the case with Ukraine - or when pointing the dish far to the east or west to access other country's satellite TV.

I'm not referring to the direction. That's it that all the antennas are very high raised.

I was using the direction as an example of it being hard to tell where it is pointed.
It isn't clear what angle they are pointing at.

But just how high do you think they should be pointing?
Ukraine is not that far north, it is only at roughly 48.5 degrees.
That means for a geostationary satellite due south, it should be pointing at roughly 41 degrees.

The dish you are pointing out does not appear to be pointing above that.

So no, it can't clearly be seen.

That satellites fly in the proportion of magnetic lines.

How?
To have magnetic levitation you need either superconductors and very strong magnets, or quickly varying magnetic fields.
Earth's magnetic field is neither, so that doesn't work.

We have a more complex world structure. It is described in detail in the scriptures.

You mean a lot is baselessly asserted in scripture.

Satellites just fly by the principle described in them.

There are no principles describing how satellites work in any scripture I know of.
Stop with the baseless assertions.

And the earth's core can not generate a magnetic field - since heated above 800 degrees - read the physics.

Good advice, read up on physics.
You are thinking of a simple magnet, and how when heated it can lose its magnetism.
For Iron, which the core is made of, that would be ~1000 K or 770 C.
Earth's core is a lot hotter.

But that isn't how Earth's magnetic field works.
Instead it is produced as a dynamo. A spinning ball of molten metal.
The Curie temperature doesn't apply there.

We have external magnetic fields. The earth is inside them.

Except mapping of Earth's magnetic field clearly shows that it is from inside Earth.

Don’t get technical. Just ask them why. Why does this conspiracy exist. To what aim. Who benefits. How do they benefit? What stops people blowing the whistle. How has the lie been maintained in the space age. Why are they lying?