Time is nothing more than man's invention.

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midgard

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2007, 09:33:31 AM »
Quote from: "Sanirius"
but in the prehistory there were no differences in wealth.. were there?


We don't have to go into prehistoric times to see the difference in life expectancies - we can look through history (and get more accurate data). Longer lives are a relatively new thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if prehistoric man had a natural life expectancy that was longer than a person living in Victorian London.

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Sanirius

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2007, 09:35:06 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"
Quote from: "Sanirius"
but in the prehistory there were no differences in wealth.. were there?


We don't have to go into prehistoric times to see the difference in life expectancies - we can look through history (and get more accurate data). Longer lives are a relatively new thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if prehistoric man had a natural life expectancy that was longer than a person living in Victorian London.


if u say so my lordship :P
but im still not sure about it

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midgard

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2007, 09:37:07 AM »
:lol:

Don't get upset with me just because you came up with a bad idea.

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Sanirius

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2007, 09:40:37 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"
:lol:

Don't get upset with me just because you came up with a bad idea.


im not

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midgard

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2007, 10:38:48 AM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I suggest visiting this site and learn all about the string theory (use the flash version, for a nice and simple explanation, spoon fed to you in palatable amounts), and then come back and we'll talk about gravity and time travel.


So let me get this straight:

0: A point
1: A Line
2: A line with a split
3: A line with a split that you can fold (= a point in D4)
4: Time as a line
5: Time as a line with a split
6: Time as a line with a split that you can fold in 6-D time (= a point in D7), equal to infinity
7: A line from one infinity to another infinity
8: A line from one infinity to another infinity with a split
9: A line from one infinity to another infinity with a split that you can fold
10: All the infinities as a point, there is only one point as you cannot have anything larger than infinite infinities (which is larger than what I thought you could have in the first place).

Is that about right nomad?

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Nomad

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2007, 12:45:47 PM »
Exactly.






 :roll:
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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2007, 12:55:54 PM »
no your wrong
he kinds of equations that they have now are the kinds of equations you would get in an approximation scheme to some underlying theory, but nobody knows what the underlying theory is.

discover magazine

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Nomad

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2007, 12:59:56 PM »
My wrong what?
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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2007, 05:20:53 PM »
lol, too right!  the worst mistake in grammar BY FAR is getting "you're" mixed up with "your".  i dont know about anyone else but to read it when someone makes the confusion of the two, forces me to pause and then rethink about what they meant cos its just that much off-throwing!

to put it simply - its a bit gay
care to take a gander at my Haemorrhoids?

Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2007, 05:34:12 PM »
If there are 'other' universes, then aren't they all part of a greater thing?  Since 'Universe' is all physical things, shouldn't we have another word to describe 'our' Universe?

Say, our Universe is The Universe (for simplicity's sake) and all other Universes combined (Point in the 10th Dimension) is the 'Omniverse?'

What about those other Omniverses?  Assuredly, if there are other Universes, then there possibly could be other Omniverses; for example, our Universe is defined as 'All the possible starting conditions and all the possible ending conditions of the physical plane.'
Could there possibly be other things?  For example 'all non-possible starting conditions with non-possible endings?  Would that be a useless things, as it could not *possibly* exist?
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
-Nathaniel Branden

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Erasmus

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2007, 11:59:55 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I suggest visiting this site and learn all about the string theory (use the flash version, for a nice and simple explanation, spoon fed to you in palatable amounts), and then come back and we'll talk about gravity and time travel.


So far I'm pretty unimpressed with at least the text on the text-only version of the site.  I really don't like any bit of
Quote
In String theory, physicists tell us that Superstrings vibrating in the tenth dimension are what create the subatomic particles which make up our universe, and all of the other possible universes as well. In other words, all possibilities are contained within the tenth dimension, which would appear to be the concept we have just built for ourselves as we imagined the ten dimensions, built one upon another.
or a lot of the other language he uses.  Very wishy-washy.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2007, 01:49:13 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
I suggest visiting this site and learn all about the string theory (use the flash version, for a nice and simple explanation, spoon fed to you in palatable amounts), and then come back and we'll talk about gravity and time travel.


So far I'm pretty unimpressed with at least the text on the text-only version of the site.  I really don't like any bit of
Quote
In String theory, physicists tell us that Superstrings vibrating in the tenth dimension are what create the subatomic particles which make up our universe, and all of the other possible universes as well. In other words, all possibilities are contained within the tenth dimension, which would appear to be the concept we have just built for ourselves as we imagined the ten dimensions, built one upon another.
or a lot of the other language he uses.  Very wishy-washy.


I agree, it's almost Biblical in it's ambiguity...
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
-Nathaniel Branden

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midgard

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2007, 04:45:07 AM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
What about those other Omniverses?  Assuredly, if there are other Universes, then there possibly could be other Omniverses; for example, our Universe is defined as 'All the possible starting conditions and all the possible ending conditions of the physical plane.'
Could there possibly be other things?  For example 'all non-possible starting conditions with non-possible endings?  Would that be a useless things, as it could not *possibly* exist?


The first set of infinities deals with all the possible things that could happen in this universe from begninning to end (what if particle A bounced of particle B instead of particle C in the Big Bang?). This is then a point in a higher dimension with other points being made up of other infinities with different sets of possibilities (e.g. a round earth might be possible in one of these other infinities). Now there are infinite possible infinties (or "omniverses") contained in a single point in the 10th Dimension. As this single point covers everything that is possible and everything that is impossible you cannot have anything greater... hmmm, what does the 10th Dimension remind me of?

I like the idea. Of course, I also like reading loads of religious stuff as they make good stories - I just don't believe them.

By the way, nomad, I don't remember anything in the animation explaining how gravity worked.

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Sanirius

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2007, 06:48:58 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"
:lol:

Don't get upset with me just because you came up with a bad idea.


BTW you're not necessarily right. Back in the prehistory we were still 'Homo Sapiens' (our current form). I doubt that a neanderthal would live longer than 50 years. So it might be possible evolution can make us live longer in the future

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midgard

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2007, 07:13:29 AM »
Quote from: "Sanirius"
BTW you're not necessarily right. Back in the prehistory we were still 'Homo Sapiens' (our current form). I doubt that a neanderthal would live longer than 50 years. So it might be possible evolution can make us live longer in the future


I'm not saying evolution can't, I'm merely pointing out that the increased life expectancy we've had has probably been more closely related to better living conditions. Also, any increase in longevity in the future will probably be a result of even better living conditions and not evolution.

Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2007, 08:12:47 AM »
Quote from: "sd0"
Yes you are right, but bills and speeding tickets are a good reason to keep this bullshit up.

As for the original asshole who invented time, I don't know his reasons, but I'm sure they were evil.

Proabaly a way to control people.



I couldn't be arsed to read past this post... Put yourself into this scenario -

You meet a hot hot lass that's practically begging for you to spaff your sticky man suds in to her meaty beefy flaps, maybe with the possibility of getting in there with her best mate for a bit of three way lezzer soaping action... You, having no real concept of time anymore, turn up in what she would determine as "unreasonably late". Fitty goes off to get boffed up the chuffer by an all blacks prop, leaving you alone with mrs Palm and her 5 chubby, calloused daughters once again to relieve you of your manly tension.

All of this is, of course, assuming you are a man with a functioning hand.

If you're a lass (I have my doubts) then you have a hairy minge and you smell funny.
nless you're an illiterate and malnourished Asian with exactly 1.04 vaginas and 0.96 testicles, living in substandard housing, you do not qualify as normal but as abnormal, subnormal, supernormal, paranormal or some variety of nonnormal.

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Erasmus

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2007, 10:00:38 AM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
What about those other Omniverses?  Assuredly, if there are other Universes, then there possibly could be other Omniverses; for example, our Universe is defined as 'All the possible starting conditions and all the possible ending conditions of the physical plane.'
Could there possibly be other things?  For example 'all non-possible starting conditions with non-possible endings?  Would that be a useless things, as it could not *possibly* exist?


There's no point in considering other universes if there are no laws of physics that allows information to be transferred from ours to the other ones: if there are none, then on some level it ought to be said that those others don't exist materially/outside our imagination (where are they?); if there are some, then those universes are essentially part of our universe (you just obey whatever the laws of physics are that allow you to get to them; it's just a question of technology, but so is transoceanic flight).

As a corollary, it's also fruitless to consider other omniverses.

Quote from: "midgard"
The first set of infinities deals with all the possible things that could happen in this universe from begninning to end (what if particle A bounced of particle B instead of particle C in the Big Bang?). This is then a point in a higher dimension with other points being made up of other infinities with different sets of possibilities (e.g. a round earth might be possible in one of these other infinities).


Why is this a point in a higher dimension?  What does that even mean?  Do you want this to be anything but sci-fi?  If so, I suggest that you use the word "dimension" to mean what is meant by mathematicians: it's a direction in which you can move that isn't just some combination of other directions in which you can move.

Sorry, but while infinite sets of universes being points in higher-dimensional spaces may be fun for kids to think about, it is not a serious subject of intellectual reflection, because:
(1)  it doesn't yield any new intuition or formality about dimensions or universes
(2)  it doesn't, really, mean anything at all.

Quote
Now there are infinite possible infinties (or "omniverses") contained in a single point in the 10th Dimension. As this single point covers everything that is possible and everything that is impossible you cannot have anything greater... hmmm, what does the 10th Dimension remind me of?


Yeah, we already have a name for the dimension that's a single point: it's the 0th dimension.  Adding a new dimension which is a single point is equivalent to adding no new dimensionality at all.  I.e.:  imagine you're travelling on a two-dimensional surface, such as a dry sea bed: you can move north/south, east/west, or some combination of the two.  You can add a new dimension of motion by filling the sea with water: now you can move north/south, east/west, up/down, or some combination of the three.

You can restrict how big the new dimension is by adding a finite amount of water: if the water is 100 meters deep, you can only move up/down 100 meters.  At every point on the sea bed, you have added a vertical line of "climbable" water 100 meters long.  Suppose you make the water 0 meters deep (an infinitesimally thin layer of water): at every point on the sea bed, you have added a vertical line of "climbable" water 0 meters long, otherwise known as a single point of water.  You can't move along this line of water more than 0 meters.  In terms of ability to move, you haven't added any freedom at all.

This is the sense in which dimensionality is discussed in earnest by people hoping to get somewhere.  Please do not feel that your imagination is being repressed or that your mind is being closed here: higher dimensional spaces are already wondrous, confusing, and enlightenment-prone enough without being reduced to the senseless ramblings of a pseudoscientist and his wannabe bestseller.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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midgard

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2007, 10:06:30 AM »
I was going off the little animation that nomad provided. I personally don't believe in it until somebody could show me some evidence to support it.

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Erasmus

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2007, 10:21:30 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"
I was going off the little animation that nomad provided. I personally don't believe in it until somebody could show me some evidence to support it.


I'm not talking about the likelihood of it being true, or whether you ought to believe it.  I'm saying that if you spend anymore time thinking about it, that's time that could have been spent in more fruitful endeavors, such as picking your nose or being audience to the scintillating banter of sportscasters.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Sanirius

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2007, 10:44:58 PM »
Quote from: "midgard"
Quote from: "Sanirius"
BTW you're not necessarily right. Back in the prehistory we were still 'Homo Sapiens' (our current form). I doubt that a neanderthal would live longer than 50 years. So it might be possible evolution can make us live longer in the future


I'm not saying evolution can't, I'm merely pointing out that the increased life expectancy we've had has probably been more closely related to better living conditions. Also, any increase in longevity in the future will probably be a result of even better living conditions and not evolution.


yes probably you are right when we are talking about humans today, but i ment really like 200000 years ago, when we were still monkeys (if darwin was right)

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midgard

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Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2007, 02:50:05 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "midgard"
I was going off the little animation that nomad provided. I personally don't believe in it until somebody could show me some evidence to support it.


I'm not talking about the likelihood of it being true, or whether you ought to believe it.  I'm saying that if you spend anymore time thinking about it, that's time that could have been spent in more fruitful endeavors, such as picking your nose or being audience to the scintillating banter of sportscasters.


It doesn't matter if I waste time as I'll just travel through the 6th dimension (ie the 3rd dimension of time) to a point where the me in that 2 dimensional lineal timline didn't waste his time and accomplished things and became wealthy, kill that me and assume his role.

Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2007, 03:01:33 PM »
Quote from: "sd0"
There is no such real thing as time, it is only an idea.  A man made way of keeping track of things.  It is also a convinient way for others to make money, I'll explain:

What if a month had 100 days instead of 30, then you would only have to pay your bills 3.6 times a year, but some asshole dicided that a month would be 30 days so his greedy little ass could get paid 12 times a year instead, this theory can also apply to the greedy cops, I'll explain:

If there was no such thing as an hour, how in the hell could they write all those speeding tickets for exceeding Xmiles per hour, if some greedy asshole had never invented time we could all drive as fast as we pleased.

So I submit to you that the only reason's for the absolutey made up bullshit theory of "time" is, money, greed, and control of the population.


Biggest load of bullshit in existence on these forums.

Months have aproximately 30 days in them because -gasps!- thats aproximately how long it takes the moon to go through a full cycle!

There are 12 months in a year because it takes the earth 356 days to make one complete orbit around the sun. There is 24 hours in a day because thats roughly how long it takes the earth to turn around.

And all of this shit you came up with is based solely on perception. Even if life didn't exist, as long as existence existed there would be time.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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BOGWarrior89

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Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2007, 03:34:17 PM »
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
There are 12 months in a year because it takes the earth 356 days to make one complete orbit around the sun.

You mean 365.25 days?

Quote from: "Wolfwood"
There is 24 hours in a day because thats roughly how long it takes the earth to turn around.

You mean 23 hours, 56 minutes; we just added an extra four minutes (thanks midgard, I probably wouldn't have noticed) to make it round up to an even 24 hours.

Quote from: "Wolfwood"
And all of this shit you came up with is based solely on perception. Even if life didn't exist, as long as existence existed there would be time.

I measure time via the distance between two of my memories, so, yeah, time's an invention.

Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2007, 04:08:24 AM »
Quote from: "sd0"

If there was no such thing as an hour, how in the hell could they write all those speeding tickets for exceeding Xmiles per hour, if some greedy asshole had never invented time we could all drive as fast as we pleased.

So I submit to you that the only reason's for the absolutey made up bullshit theory of "time" is, money, greed, and control of the population.


you would get a ticket for exceeding x Niles/ mour (where Niles are miles on another scale and mour are hour on another scale).

that's because you'd be going too fast on x Niles/mour and you could cause an accident DUMBF.UCK .

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midgard

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Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2007, 04:29:40 AM »
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"
You mean 23 hours, 56 minutes; we just added an extra four seconds to make it round up to an even 24 hours.


Sorry to do this Bog but...

...if you add 4 seconds to 23 hours & 56 minutes you get 23 hours, 56 minutes & 4 seconds - not 24 hours.

...more importantly it's 24 hours for one spot on the earth to face the sun, rotate and come back to facing the sun. If you measured the day off the earth's rotation (instead of its position in relation to the sun) then every 180 days the time for night and day would switch (i.e. midnight would be when the sun was highest in the sky). You've got to remember that the earth is also moving around the sun which is why it takes an additional 4 minutes (ie 24 hours total) for a point facing the sun to rotate and return to face the sun.

Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2007, 12:27:23 PM »
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
There are 12 months in a year because it takes the earth 356 days to make one complete orbit around the sun.

You mean 365.25 days?

Quote from: "Wolfwood"
There is 24 hours in a day because thats roughly how long it takes the earth to turn around.

You mean 23 hours, 56 minutes; we just added an extra four minutes (thanks midgard, I probably wouldn't have noticed) to make it round up to an even 24 hours.

Quote from: "Wolfwood"
And all of this shit you came up with is based solely on perception. Even if life didn't exist, as long as existence existed there would be time.

I measure time via the distance between two of my memories, so, yeah, time's an invention.


I'm sorry at what point are you going to not be anal? Should I submit a formal written notice that I don't give a shit about little details? Woo a typo, a piece of information you got wrong in your attempt to correct me, and a statement that you measure time by the distence between memory in your personal head. How the fuck do you measure distence between memory?

And yeah WE added 4 seconds to a 23 hour 56 minute time cycle to round it up to a full 24 hours. You must have been the scientist that screwed up the Mars landing by calculating it in Imperial instead of Metric.
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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BOGWarrior89

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Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2007, 01:07:09 PM »
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
How the frak do you measure distance between memory?

Problems?

Simple, Wolfwood; consecutive memories mean less time passed, whereas gaps (events that I don't remember) mean more time has passed.

However, the SI unit of time, the second, is the time (distance between two events on the time axis) that it takes a cesium atom under bombardment by microwaves of the proper frequency to undergo 9,192,631,770 energy state transitions.

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RESOCR

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Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2007, 01:28:49 PM »
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
How the frak do you measure distance between memory?

Problems?

Simple, Wolfwood; consecutive memories mean less time passed, whereas gaps (events that I don't remember) mean more time has passed.

However, the SI unit of time, the second, is the time (distance between two events on the time axis) that it takes a cesium atom under bombardment by microwaves of the proper frequency to undergo 9,192,631,770 energy state transitions.


that vis a very cool, yet completely unneeded fact.

just the kind of things I like to remember!
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
Atmosphere gets thinner with altitude
And so does your theory

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Nomad

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Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2007, 01:30:37 PM »
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
There are 12 months in a year because it takes the earth 356 days to make one complete orbit around the sun.


I hate to burst your bubble, but there's no good reason for there being 12 months in a year.  Months are just groupings of days.  We could have two months, six months, or eighty months in a year.  That's just our own (human) way of organizing the days into more manageable periods.  Hours, days, and years are a lot more concrete, but months don't mean shit.
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BOGWarrior89

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Re: Time is nothing more than man's invention.
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2007, 01:32:35 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
There are 12 months in a year because it takes the earth 356 days to make one complete orbit around the sun.


I hate to burst your bubble, but there's no good reason for there being 12 months in a year.  Months are just groupings of days.  We could have two months, six months, or eighty months in a year.  That's just our own (human) way of organizing the days into more manageable periods.  Hours, days, and years are a lot more concrete, but months don't mean shit.


Moon cycles, anyone?