Is climate change real?

  • 84 Replies
  • 6193 Views
*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 6577
  • Flatness as in the shape of a water droplet.
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2018, 07:01:17 AM »
If C02 causes global warming why does the records from ice cores show that CO2 increases lag behind temperature increases by upwards of 800 years.

Additionally, the data from ice cores are not year by year like current measurements.  Each layer in the core could represent dozens of years, and melt layers are completely ignored which further increase the gaps in the data.
Rabinoz RIP

Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2018, 07:25:33 AM »
Be gentle

*

NotSoSkeptical

  • 6577
  • Flatness as in the shape of a water droplet.
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2018, 07:50:47 AM »
Ice cores arenít the only source:

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/how-do-scientists-study-ancient-climates

Trees.  So how does that work for post 5000 years ago (oldest living trees are ~5000 years old) and they probably aren't going to be pulling tons of samples from them.
Rabinoz RIP

Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2018, 08:39:43 AM »
Ice cores arenít the only source:

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/how-do-scientists-study-ancient-climates

Trees.  So how does that work for post 5000 years ago (oldest living trees are ~5000 years old) and they probably aren't going to be pulling tons of samples from them.

One doesnít need living trees to study. Fossilized ones work good too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood?wprov=sfti1

Be gentle

Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2018, 09:53:55 AM »
Climate Change is very real.  It happens roughly ever 3 months.  Us normal people call it Seasons.

Now, there are some that think global warming is real, yet most of those idiots like to ignore that in the 1970's, scientists were calling it global cooling and that we were heading for an supposed ice age. 

The science is complete BS based on a limited timespan of data.  The earth goes through natural cycles of heating and cooling.  You know, those things called Ice Ages and the Warmer Periods between them.  We know that ice ages occurred and that there was more than one.  However, what we don't know is actual temperatures during and between those, as no measurements occurred.  There is no data.  It is at best speculation.  So is the earth warming, based on the data we have over the short period the data has been collected, yes.  Is it warming because of us, could be, but probably not.  No one knows because there is no real base data to compare it to.  Comparing to a hundred years ago is a flawed base.
There was I believe one study done in the 70s that showed cooling. The media hyped it way out of proportion and the authors later pointed out where they were mistaken.
The scientists who actually study climate disagree with you. The hundreds of studies done disagree with you.

*

FalseProphet

  • 3696
  • Life is just a tale
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2018, 10:24:11 AM »
If C02 causes global warming why does the records from ice cores show that CO2 increases lag behind temperature increases by upwards of 800 years.

Because warming trends are rarely caused by CO2. Naturally only volcanism can cause a steep increase of CO2. Actually our fossil fuel plants are a kind of artificial volcanoes.
Warmer air can absorb more CO2, so if it gets warmer - no matter why - you have more CO2 in the atmosphere.
In other words: CO2 level increase is only SOMETIMES the cause, but ALWAYS the result of a warming trend.


Additionally, the data from ice cores are not year by year like current measurements.  Each layer in the core could represent dozens of years, and melt layers are completely ignored which further increase the gaps in the data.

No, ice core layers are annual, like tree rings. Of course you ignore disturbed layers. They are useless. That does not mean that there are gaps in the data.


*

boydster

  • Assistant to the Regional Manager
  • Planar Moderator
  • 15701
  • FREEDOIS IS ᗡIИIRG!
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2018, 11:17:35 AM »
If C02 causes global warming why does the records from ice cores show that CO2 increases lag behind temperature increases by upwards of 800 years.

Additionally, the data from ice cores are not year by year like current measurements.  Each layer in the core could represent dozens of years, and melt layers are completely ignored which further increase the gaps in the data.

CO2 absorbs infrared light and re-radiates it in a random direction, so almost half of the heat energy that is trying to escape the Earth gets sent back towards the surface. That's not a controversial opinion, that is just how it behaves. Whether Carbon Dioxide emissions have historically lagged behind temperature rise is not the thing to focus on. The fact that it helps trap heat and that is empirically derived is the relevant point, along with the length of time it floats around in the atmosphere versus other greenhouse gasses like methane.

*

nickrulercreator

  • 244
  • It's round. That much is true
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2018, 07:17:59 AM »
I never said we aren't causing it - just that our emissions are a smaller part of it and not the whole story. My focus is on the physical destruction of several billion trees each year - and that's just for paper!! I believe our planet would be much better equipped to deal with our emissions if we still had these trees. Now we have the ocean. And when that over acidifies, it can have a devastating impact for everything in the food chain - including us.

But our emissions is what's responsible for the increase in CO2. I haven't been able to find any papers on how it'd be different if the trees were still here, but with our evidence we still know that humans are the biggest contributors to the warming of Earth. We've known this before a lot of the deforestation took place.

Quote
In all of Al Gores speeches has he ever talked about the destruction of the rainforests? About efforts to replant the billions of lost trees? Or has it all been about reducing carbon emissions and your footprint (despite he shamelessly having a bigger carbon footprint than everyone he lectures). Or perhaps its easier to blame the land slides and all the consequences of a changing face of Earth on turning on a light bulb

Gore has talked about deforestation: https://www.nrdc.org/experts/jake-schmidt/nobel-prizers-deforestation and https://grist.org/article/deforesting/ and http://unica.com.br/news/7064751920313606276/al-gore-por-cento3A-brazil-a-global-leader-in-producing-ethanol-efficiently-without-deforestation/ and https://news.mongabay.com/2009/01/gore-pushes-for-avoided-deforestation-to-save-rainforests-during-testimony/

Quote
In the digital age, we should be scrapping almost all use for paper. Do we really need stupid trashy tabloid magazines anymore? Newspapers? Junk mail? Political advertisements?

Paper is not the main reason for deforestation. Those include ranching, farming, mining, oil, and dams: http://www.rainforestconcern.org/rainforest_facts/why_are_they_being_destroyed/

Quote
We should stop focusing 100% on the emissions we put out as the 'sole cause' of climate change and try and fix the mess we made. Renewable energy will lead us into a much better and cleaner age but if people are not concerned about the status of the planet, then make it more personal such as switching to cleaner energy so that they can live in better health.

We still need to focus on our emissions though. We've changed the planet too much already. If we don't worry about emissions, CO2 levels continue to rise. We need to worry about emissions by switching to renewable energy. We still need to worry about reversing our effects, but right now reducing our footprint is the largest concern. It's the best way to stop more damage.

Quote
The cost of establishing geo thermal power plants, solar, wind and hydro power will be peanuts compared to the slippery slope of disasters that will unfold if we keep on course. We depend on the health of life in the ocean for our own survival. We fuck with that, we fuck with ourselves. And so far, we are doing a good job in fucking it up. We know the world is not going to switch to renewable in time. Certainly the developing countries wont. So lets focus what we can do. Carbon capturing. And trees are the best at that.

So we should focus on reducing emissions. It's our emissions and footprint causing the destruction of the ocean. Planting trees is also good, but we can't ignore reducing our footprint.
he puts his penis in the mouth of the other one and FORCIBLY GIVES HER A BLOWJOB OF TRUTH and then his penis ERRUPTS IN AN EXPLOSION IF TRUTH and she is INSTANTLY DECAPITATED

*

nickrulercreator

  • 244
  • It's round. That much is true
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2018, 07:19:48 AM »
If C02 causes global warming why does the records from ice cores show that CO2 increases lag behind temperature increases by upwards of 800 years.

Additionally, the data from ice cores are not year by year like current measurements.  Each layer in the core could represent dozens of years, and melt layers are completely ignored which further increase the gaps in the data.

CO2 does not lag: https://skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm

The data from ice cores still gives us an accurate idea of the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere prior to direct measurements. How big of an effect do melt layers have on results?
he puts his penis in the mouth of the other one and FORCIBLY GIVES HER A BLOWJOB OF TRUTH and then his penis ERRUPTS IN AN EXPLOSION IF TRUTH and she is INSTANTLY DECAPITATED

*

FalseProphet

  • 3696
  • Life is just a tale
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2018, 07:48:16 AM »

We know the world is not going to switch to renewable in time. Certainly the developing countries wont.

Why do you think that? Renewable energy is booming in the developing world. We are the first victims of climate change, so generally awareness is higher than in the developed world.

*

FalseProphet

  • 3696
  • Life is just a tale
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2018, 07:51:16 AM »
If C02 causes global warming why does the records from ice cores show that CO2 increases lag behind temperature increases by upwards of 800 years.

Additionally, the data from ice cores are not year by year like current measurements.  Each layer in the core could represent dozens of years, and melt layers are completely ignored which further increase the gaps in the data.

CO2 does not lag: https://skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm


Of course it does. The link you provide explains why.

?

frenat

  • 3639
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2018, 10:04:18 AM »
Paper is not the main reason for deforestation. Those include ranching, farming, mining, oil, and dams: http://www.rainforestconcern.org/rainforest_facts/why_are_they_being_destroyed/
I was waiting for someone to say this.  Unfortunately I don't have a reference but I've read before that all the trees used for paper currently have been planted for that purpose.

*

nickrulercreator

  • 244
  • It's round. That much is true
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2018, 11:44:32 AM »
If C02 causes global warming why does the records from ice cores show that CO2 increases lag behind temperature increases by upwards of 800 years.

Additionally, the data from ice cores are not year by year like current measurements.  Each layer in the core could represent dozens of years, and melt layers are completely ignored which further increase the gaps in the data.

CO2 does not lag: https://skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm


Of course it does. The link you provide explains why.

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I meant it doesn't lag for the majority of warming. As shown in the link, 90% of warming occurs after the CO2 increase. What skeptics look at is that 10%, and dismiss the other 90%.
he puts his penis in the mouth of the other one and FORCIBLY GIVES HER A BLOWJOB OF TRUTH and then his penis ERRUPTS IN AN EXPLOSION IF TRUTH and she is INSTANTLY DECAPITATED

*

FalseProphet

  • 3696
  • Life is just a tale
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2018, 02:23:45 PM »
If C02 causes global warming why does the records from ice cores show that CO2 increases lag behind temperature increases by upwards of 800 years.

Additionally, the data from ice cores are not year by year like current measurements.  Each layer in the core could represent dozens of years, and melt layers are completely ignored which further increase the gaps in the data.

CO2 does not lag: https://skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm


Of course it does. The link you provide explains why.

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I meant it doesn't lag for the majority of warming. As shown in the link, 90% of warming occurs after the CO2 increase. What skeptics look at is that 10%, and dismiss the other 90%.

Sceptics are right insofar as CO2 is rarely the initial cause of natural climate change. They wrongly conclude that CO2 in principle can't be the initial cause of climate change.

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2018, 07:38:37 PM »
Climate scientists have been busted fudging the numbers in order to secure funding for their organizations.  They are not dumb, and know that unless they constantly produce results favorable climate change, they will stop getting money handed to them.  I remember around a decade ago, someone hacked an email system and leaked emails where they were discussing how much to adjust the numbers that  year in order to keep their jobs. 

*

FalseProphet

  • 3696
  • Life is just a tale
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2018, 08:09:05 PM »
Climate scientists have been busted fudging the numbers in order to secure funding for their organizations.  They are not dumb, and know that unless they constantly produce results favorable climate change, they will stop getting money handed to them.  I remember around a decade ago, someone hacked an email system and leaked emails where they were discussing how much to adjust the numbers that  year in order to keep their jobs.


I'm not surprised that you believe the "emailgate" scam.

?

Twerp

  • Gutter Sniper
  • Flat Earth Almost Believer
  • 6539
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2018, 08:11:47 PM »
Climate scientists have been busted fudging the numbers in order to secure funding for their organizations.  They are not dumb, and know that unless they constantly produce results favorable climate change, they will stop getting money handed to them.  I remember around a decade ago, someone hacked an email system and leaked emails where they were discussing how much to adjust the numbers that  year in order to keep their jobs.


I'm not surprised that you believe the "emailgate" scam.
Stunning rebuttal
ďHeaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..Ē - Wise

*

Shifter

  • 17940
  • Blind to the truth
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2018, 08:46:55 PM »



Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2018, 10:02:27 AM »
Climate scientists have been busted fudging the numbers in order to secure funding for their organizations.  They are not dumb, and know that unless they constantly produce results favorable climate change, they will stop getting money handed to them.  I remember around a decade ago, someone hacked an email system and leaked emails where they were discussing how much to adjust the numbers that  year in order to keep their jobs.
Complete bullshit.  There is far more money via oil companies for scientists to debunk climate change than support it.
The emails you refer to did nothing at all like you said, you are lying.  It involved one guy telling another that they were using a particular math process in order to account for all the data.

*

FalseProphet

  • 3696
  • Life is just a tale
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2018, 11:05:54 AM »
Climate scientists have been busted fudging the numbers in order to secure funding for their organizations.  They are not dumb, and know that unless they constantly produce results favorable climate change, they will stop getting money handed to them.  I remember around a decade ago, someone hacked an email system and leaked emails where they were discussing how much to adjust the numbers that  year in order to keep their jobs.
Complete bullshit.  There is far more money via oil companies for scientists to debunk climate change than support it.
The emails you refer to did nothing at all like you said, you are lying.  It involved one guy telling another that they were using a particular math process in order to account for all the data.

Sometimes they even put sentences from different emails together to make it sound suspicious.

Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2018, 01:03:39 PM »
Climate scientists have been busted fudging the numbers in order to secure funding for their organizations.  They are not dumb, and know that unless they constantly produce results favorable climate change, they will stop getting money handed to them.  I remember around a decade ago, someone hacked an email system and leaked emails where they were discussing how much to adjust the numbers that  year in order to keep their jobs.
Complete bullshit.  There is far more money via oil companies for scientists to debunk climate change than support it.
The emails you refer to did nothing at all like you said, you are lying.  It involved one guy telling another that they were using a particular math process in order to account for all the data.

Sometimes they even put sentences from different emails together to make it sound suspicious.
Not surprising.

Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2018, 07:05:57 AM »
Not increasing in frequency: correct.

Not increasing in severity: incorrect

They do (f)actually increase in severity. Moreover, the severity curve resembles the average global temperature curve scaringly accurate. Coincidence? Probably not.

If you need sources for that statement ó> google
Tropical storms are not increasing in severity or frequency, you asswipe.
Tell that to the people of Huston, TX or Puerto Rico.
It does not matter what I write or you write, facts are fucking facts.

No increase in frequency.

No increase in severity.

More accurate measuring scales and identification does not equate to systemic increase in frequency or severity you dipshits!

You should change your profile pics to Chicken Little or Henny Penny...

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41424
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2018, 11:07:23 AM »
You should change your profile pics to Chicken Little or Henny Penny...
Here's a good profile pic for you:
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2018, 11:41:07 AM »
Climate change is to me, real and not a government conspiracy...

*

nickrulercreator

  • 244
  • It's round. That much is true
Re: Is climate change real?
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2018, 01:34:42 PM »
Oh, Jroa. Emails?



he puts his penis in the mouth of the other one and FORCIBLY GIVES HER A BLOWJOB OF TRUTH and then his penis ERRUPTS IN AN EXPLOSION IF TRUTH and she is INSTANTLY DECAPITATED