Defend your model

I found a YouTube video made by GreaterSapien. He asks 11 questions to flatearthers.

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Question 1: Where is Venus right now?
Question 2: Why do the sun and the moon rise and set the way they do?
Question 3: Why does daylight in Earth have the pattern it does?
Question 4: What holds the sun and moon in place and moves them?
Question 5: Why do you see the same face and phase of the moon no matter where you are?
Question 6: Why does a lunar eclipse happen? How does the Earth's shadow go across the face of the moon? If it's not the Earth shadow, what is it?
Question 7: How does a solar eclipse happen?
Question 8: Why do the sun and moon have spherical shapes?
Question 9: What powers the sun?
Question 10: Why has no one gone to the other side of Earth?
Question 11: Where is a definitive model of the flat earth system?

In this video the flatearther TheMorgile "answers" the questions. Caution: high chance of facepalming.
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In short his answers are: "It's irrelevant, we only need to prove that Earth has no curvature."

For comparison the answers given by the current models.

Question 1:
https://www.solarsystemscope.com/

Question 2:
https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question14.html

Question 3:
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Question 4:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System

Question 5:
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Question 6:
See previous answer.

Question 7:
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Question 8:
See question 4.

Question 9:
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_fusion

Question 10:
In the current model, they did.

Question 11:
For the Earth alone, you could use Google Earth as model, or a globe.
For the solar system:
https://www.solarsystemscope.com/

So I ask you to answer those questions. But first let see what your websites say.
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Flat_Earth_Wiki

Question 2: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun

Question 5: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Phases_of_the_Moon

Question 6: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Lunar_Eclipse

The shadow object is never seen because it orbits close to the sun. As the sun's powerful vertical rays hit the atmosphere during the day they will scatter and blot out nearly every single star and celestial body in the sky. We are never given a glimpse of the celestial bodies which appear near the sun during the day - they are completely washed out by the sun's light.

That contradicts the observations of Venus and Mercury. The shadow object also can't be Venus or Mercury, they simply appear too small.

Question 10:

Is There An Edge To The Earth?
The Flat Earth Society, along with previous notable flatists such as Samuel Shenton and S. Rowbotham, believe there is no end to the Earth and that it continues indefinitely. The only edge to the earth is the one you are standing on. Some math describing this can be found in our blog article The Mathematics of an Infinite Earth

For the other questions, I couldn't even find an answer.

Some other videos to enjoy.
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So flatearthers defend your model. To make it clearer, I'm asking you to show me that your model works. I'm not asking for you to ask questions about the spherical Earth.

I hope that inspires some flatearthers to at least look for answers in your own model.

So flatearthers defend your model.

Your first mistake is assuming that FE'ers have a model to defend.

Quote from: SomeRandomPerson on May 14, 2018, 11:48:28 AM

So flatearthers defend your model.

Your first mistake is assuming that FE'ers have a model to defend.

You will see in the second video, that this flavor of flat earther believes that no model is necessary because without a doubt he has proven through not answering any kind of question that there is no curvature of the earth.

If you don't have model at all, then explain to me, what is flat Earth? What do you have, except for questions about a spherical Earth? Which by the way can be answered.
You don't consistently explain any observations, and those you do explain contradict others. For example the sinking ship effect and the bedfort level experiment. The sinking ship needs refraction, and the bedford level only works ignoring it. Or the universal acceleration, which contradicts your claim of the Earth not moving.

Try breaking it out into single topics. A proper response to that would require a small novel.

Wow, great questions.

1) Venus is orbiting the Sun, similar to the way the round-earth theory predicts Venus's orbit.

2 and 3) I grouped these together because the answer is similar for both

The daytime and nighttime pattern is caused by refraction of light. While Earth orbits the Sun, it orbits sort of facing the Sun. However, it's not a perfect 90-degree angle, it's off by quite a bit. As it orbits the angles continual change means the light reflects and refracts in the atmosphere differently. At some points all light is reflected away, creating night. At other angles, more light is let in, creating the day. If all the light is being refracted, then the Moon and Sun become invisible, presenting a rising and setting pattern.

4) I think this question is a bit unfair. Really, no-one knows. Round-Earthers call the force Gravity, but if you ask them how gravity works, or why you'll find they don't know. Gravity is really just a name for their ignorance.

5) Again, this deals with my answer to 2 and 3.  The moon is a disk circling about the Earth, as it's angle to earth's surface changes, so does the light that gets reflected. Some parts get reflected, and some parts don't (this is responsible for the crescent moon).

6) Again, the light from that part of the moon is all reflected due to a changing angle.

7) The moon passes in front of the Sun.

That's quite a loaded question, I could just as well ask you "Why do the Sun and Moon have a flat circular shape?" I think the spherical shape of the planets is exactly what we're debating.

9) Nuclear Fusion, just like Round-Earthers. We don't throw out every bit of science ever discovered you know, we're just skeptical about the earth being round.

10) A couple of reasons 1) It's cold and uninhabitable because it never sees the light from the Sun it is always dark and freezing. Living there would be impossible. 2) Governmental influence is another big factor. I mean, imagine if they really did let people go to the edge? That would shake society to its core, not something the government wants. 3) Because of the circular motion around the Sun, the edges of the Earth are curved up. This means 1) HUUUGEEEE mountains, where there is no air, and very very cold conditions. Also, because the mountains are so high, they are subject to a lot of Space radiation and the Van Allen belts.

11) Again where is a definitive model of the Round-Earth theory? This question could be asked of both camps.

I hope that clears things up!

Wow, great questions.

1) Venus is orbiting the Sun, similar to the way the round-earth theory predicts Venus's orbit.

2 and 3) I grouped these together because the answer is similar for both

The daytime and nighttime pattern is caused by refraction of light. While Earth orbits the Sun, it orbits sort of facing the Sun. However, it's not a perfect 90-degree angle, it's off by quite a bit. As it orbits the angles continual change means the light reflects and refracts in the atmosphere differently. At some points all light is reflected away, creating night. At other angles, more light is let in, creating the day. If all the light is being refracted, then the Moon and Sun become invisible, presenting a rising and setting pattern.

4) I think this question is a bit unfair. Really, no-one knows. Round-Earthers call the force Gravity, but if you ask them how gravity works, or why you'll find they don't know. Gravity is really just a name for their ignorance.

5) Again, this deals with my answer to 2 and 3.  The moon is a disk circling about the Earth, as it's angle to earth's surface changes, so does the light that gets reflected. Some parts get reflected, and some parts don't (this is responsible for the crescent moon).

6) Again, the light from that part of the moon is all reflected due to a changing angle.

7) The moon passes in front of the Sun.

That's quite a loaded question, I could just as well ask you "Why do the Sun and Moon have a flat circular shape?" I think the spherical shape of the planets is exactly what we're debating.

9) Nuclear Fusion, just like Round-Earthers. We don't throw out every bit of science ever discovered you know, we're just skeptical about the earth being round.

10) A couple of reasons 1) It's cold and uninhabitable because it never sees the light from the Sun it is always dark and freezing. Living there would be impossible. 2) Governmental influence is another big factor. I mean, imagine if they really did let people go to the edge? That would shake society to its core, not something the government wants. 3) Because of the circular motion around the Sun, the edges of the Earth are curved up. This means 1) HUUUGEEEE mountains, where there is no air, and very very cold conditions. Also, because the mountains are so high, they are subject to a lot of Space radiation and the Van Allen belts.

11) Again where is a definitive model of the Round-Earth theory? This question could be asked of both camps.

I hope that clears things up!

So everything is flat except the Sun?

1) Venus is orbiting the Sun, similar to the way the round-earth theory predicts Venus's orbit.

So using gravity, which then destroys the FE model?

While Earth orbits the Sun, it orbits sort of facing the Sun.

So you are saying Earth orbits the sun, rather than the sun sitting above us?

At some points all light is reflected away, creating night. At other angles, more light is let in, creating the day.

Other than this just being wild speculation with absolutely nothing backing it up, the key issue is why some places on this ficticious FE have daylight while others are at night.

4) I think this question is a bit unfair. Really, no-one knows. Round-Earthers call the force Gravity, but if you ask them how gravity works, or why

We can explain it to some extent.
It can be explained as a force between any 2 objects proportional to their mass and inversely proportional to the distance between them squared.

We have done experiments to show this.
You have nothing at all.
Not knowing the exact mechanism is a whole different level of ignorance from having no idea at all.

5) Again, this deals with my answer to 2 and 3.  The moon is a disk circling about the Earth, as it's angle to earth's surface changes, so does the light that gets reflected. Some parts get reflected, and some parts don't (this is responsible for the crescent moon).

Then why don't we ever get a crescent sun?

7) The moon passes in front of the Sun.

And how does that manage to create the various eclipses with the specific locations on Earth?

That's quite a loaded question, I could just as well ask you "Why do the Sun and Moon have a flat circular shape?"

They don't.
They appear roughly circular from all directions, as a roughly spherical object would.

9) Nuclear Fusion, just like Round-Earthers.

No. Nothing like REers.
The sun's nuclear fusion is driven by its large mass.
The FE sun doesn't have that and cannot support fusion.

10) A couple of reasons 1) It's cold and uninhabitable because it never sees the light from the Sun

Why doesn't it?
After all, plenty of places on the top get an absence of sun.

Living there would be impossible.

Why?
We could provide it from the top.

Governmental influence is another big factor.

Which would not stop governments.

imagine if they really did let people go to the edge?

You can go to Antartica. So if that is the edge, you can. They aren't stopping you.

3) Because of the circular motion around the Sun, the edges of the Earth are curved up.

That makes no sense at all.

where there is no air, and very very cold conditions.

Which are easily traversed given the right conditions.

Also, because the mountains are so high, they are subject to a lot of Space radiation and the Van Allen belts.

Why?
What is causing all this radiation?

11) Again where is a definitive model of the Round-Earth theory? This question could be asked of both camps.

Again, shades of grey.
We have a very good model which is used daily, every time someone uses GPS they use this model.
It is also used for things like predicting sunrise and sunset and eclipse times and locations.

FE has nothing.