Why are chemical weapons a red line?

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Wolvaccine

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Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« on: April 12, 2018, 02:58:35 PM »
I'm not saying they aren't hideous, but why if 60 people are killed by cholrine does the whole world stand up and take notice and leaders not care if they escalate the issue to WW3, but thousands and thousands of people being killed protracted over many years and we are more or less like 'meh'

I mean, why is it 'okay' if a government drops a barrel bomb and a bunch of kids are hideously killed, maimed and disfigured. Why is it okay to be bullet ridden or have your own home crush you. Why is it 'okay' to be burned alive or watch your limbs scatter across the street?

But a chemical weapon that causes you to choke? THATS IT! IT'S WW3!

Why has the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in hideous fashion and the injury and displacement of millions more not attracted as much ire as a few dozen people killed with what could be a common household ingredient (chlorine).

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wise

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 12:23:33 AM »
USA and its allies are using chemical weapons in Afghanistan, Yemen, Somali and other nations at every day and night.
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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 03:06:17 AM »
Because of the holocaust.

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 04:15:00 AM »
USA and its allies are using chemical weapons in Afghanistan, Yemen, Somali and other nations at every day and night.

Also this, I often feel the weight of the lies and hypocrisy crushing down on me like a tonne of bricks.

I can hardly imagine how the shills feel.

I don't think they feel much at all tbh.

Quote
The widely used manual that is used for diagnosing various mental disorders, DSM IV, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition, lists out some of the symptoms that have to be present in an individual in order to be diagnosed as suffering from antisocial personality disorder. According to the DSM IV, this disorder falls in the Cluster B list of personality disorder. For a person to be diagnosed as a sociopath he or she must have at least three or more of the below mentioned symptoms.

    Displays heightened levels of deceitfulness in dealings with others, which involves lying, conning others without remorse, or even using aliases
    Inability to abide by the social norms and thus violating law
    Displays aggressiveness and often tends to get into assaults and physical fights
    Displays complete lack of empathy for others and their situation for which they are responsible
    Displays no feelings or shallow feelings
    Displays impulsive behavior which is indicated by the inability to plan for the future
    Displays no concern for safety of others around them or self
    Inability to sustain a consistent behavior that stems mainly from irresponsibility especially at work place or in other dealings
    Displays promiscuous behavior

Research has revealed that since a sociopath never conforms to the rules of the society, he or she is not bothered about the consequences of his or her actions. Such people at times are also able to inspire like minded people. Some of the other traits that are common in antisocial people are that they are usually intelligent and have a superficial charm and they are able to attain success using unscrupulous methods. Thus they can also never learn from their own mistakes and they do not hesitate to indulge in certain activities that are considered immoral and taboo by the society.

http://depressiond.org/sociopath-sociopathic-personality-disorder/
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 04:21:03 AM »
It's because most chemical weapons are either not actually very effective weapons physically, or because they are hard to control, or they contaminate areas for many years ahead. And pretty much all of them are excessive.

Some chemical weapons just do not kill as efficiently or certainly at the same cost as a conventional weapon. The only reason they are used are because they don't kill efficiently, but painfully. They are used for their psychological effects, not for their physical effects. They are used to instill fear. However, more often than not this backfires and people tend to band together when they have an enemy that they can easily put a "literally hitler" badge on. So they aren't really that useful even as psychological weapons, but militaries will still insist on using them for some reason. It's like strategic bombing in ww2: It's expected to work, it doesn't actually work, but they keep on doing it.

A lot of chemical weapons include smoke. It's quite hard to control where the smoke will be moving, so you might end up hurting your own soldiers or civilians. It's also hard to control the fragments from conventional bombs or explosives, but they usually loose most of their lethality after around 100m, depending on the explosive, and you can use physical objects to stop the fragments. Smoke can travel much further than that and it flows around corners and through holes in buidlings, filling up most rooms if used inside a building.


Some chemicals may be absorbed by the ground and remain toxic for years to come. Not great once a war is over and people start to live on the soil where battles have taken place.


Lastly, they often do excessive damage. Human bodies are surprisingly hard to kill with conventional guns, as long as they have access to good medical care before they bleed out. A shot will probably make you unable to keep on fighting, so guns are still very effective. But they give people a chance to survive. Chemical weapons can do the same thing, but pretty much always need to do a lot more damage to the body and will pretty much always leave more long-lasting damage. It damages the body by an excessive amount to do the same thing a gun or conventional explosive does.
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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 04:35:29 AM »
people tend to band together when they have an enemy that they can easily put a "literally hitler" badge on.

Yeah anyone who uses gas attacks are evil.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/adolf-hitler-wounded-in-british-gas-attack

Oh, wait, oh f*ck, oh no, this is gonna take some serious mental gymnastics.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 04:37:02 AM by disputeone »
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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 04:38:47 AM »
For teh lulz.

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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 04:44:07 AM »
people tend to band together when they have an enemy that they can easily put a "literally hitler" badge on.

Yeah anyone who uses gas attacks are evil.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/adolf-hitler-wounded-in-british-gas-attack

Oh, wait, oh f*ck, oh no, this is gonna take some serious mental gymnastics.
It's easy to perceive them as evil, so this is my case in point. Everyone used gas attacks during ww1, so it's easy to point to everyone as being evil. But ww1 was also the first large-scale use of chemical weapons, so people (the one's who aren't sitting in the trenches) didn't really think about the psychological effects to begin with.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 04:53:21 AM »
Should America bomb Britain then?
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2018, 04:56:01 AM »
Should America bomb Britain then?

Why would they?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2018, 05:11:00 AM »
Same reson they want to and have already bombed Syria.

Using chemical weapons.

With no proof as to who was responsible.
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2018, 05:16:51 AM »
Same reaon they want to bomb Syria.
Can you put this reason in your own words?

Using chemical weapons.
If it's ONLY, and for no other reason, because they use or have used chemical weapons, I see no reason to bomb anyone. Depending on HOW the chemical weapons are used, that may change. Just like how ANY weapon is used will decide what is an appropriate response.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2018, 05:19:51 AM »
Same reaon they want to bomb Syria.
Can you put this reason in your own words?

Yes, here.

Using chemical weapons.

Using chemical weapons.
If it's ONLY, and for no other reason, because they use or have used chemical weapons, I see no reason to bomb anyone. Depending on HOW the chemical weapons are used, that may change. Just like how ANY weapon is used will decide what is an appropriate response.

That's the mental gymnastics I was looking for.

I'm satisfied.

Goodnight mate.
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 05:21:45 AM »
Thats the mental gymnastics I was looking for.

Goodnight mate.
Mental gymnastics? I'm sorry if it's too hard to be able to reason that someone using a knife to prepare food does not deserve the same treatment as someone who uses a knife to stab a person.

So, did you have a point to make?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 05:23:27 AM »
Britain used chemical weapons in war.

Syria used chemical weapons in war.

This is just too much fun.
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 05:24:52 AM »
Britain used chemical weapons in war.

Syria used chemical weapons in war.

This is just too much fun.
Ok. Can you elaborate? How where they used, who were the targets?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2018, 05:27:51 AM »
Britain used chemical weapons in war.

Syria used chemical weapons in war.

This is just too much fun.
Ok. Can you elaborate? How where they used,

To gain an advantage in war.

Either the US backed syrian rebels who have every reason in the world to use chemical weapons or Assad who had absolutely no reason and no incentive to use chemical weapons.

who were the targets?

Enemy troops.

You're pretty much a pretzel at this point.
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2018, 05:30:41 AM »
To gain an advantage in war. Either the US backed syrian rebels who have every reason in the world to use chemical weapons or Assad who had absolutely no reason and no incentive to use chemical weapons.
And this is exactly what the US goverment have stated are their reason for bombing syria?

Enemy troops.

You're pretty much a pretzel at this point.
Only enemy troops?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2018, 05:34:16 AM »
To gain an advantage in war. Either the US backed syrian rebels who have every reason in the world to use chemical weapons or Assad who had absolutely no reason and no incentive to use chemical weapons.
And this is exactly what the US goverment have stated are their reason for bombing syria?

No they are lying like they lied about Saddams WMD's

Enemy troops.

You're pretty much a pretzel at this point.
Only enemy troops?

Both killed civilians.

The Brittish also had """collateral damage""" caused by chemical weapons and openly targetted civilians specifically in bombing raids.

Why dont you just claim its ok when we do it?

You're embarrassing yourself and I am starting to feel bad.
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2018, 05:36:26 AM »
No they are lying like they lied about Saddams WMD's
Okay then.

The Brittish also had """collateral damage""" caused by chemical weapons and openly targetted civilians specifically in bombing raids.

Why dont you just claim its ok when qe do it?

You're embarrassing yourself and I am starting to feel bad.
I see


So, I can't see any reason for the US to bomb syria or brittain in these cases, given these reasons.
So, what is your point?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 05:38:58 AM »
My point is the thread topic.

"Why are chemical weapons a red line."



Your reasons seem to have fallen apart.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 05:40:40 AM by disputeone »
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2018, 05:40:07 AM »
My point is the thread topic.

"Why are chemical weapons a red line."
So, your point is that if chemical weapons should be a red line, the US are allowed to bomb anyone who breaks the law?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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wise

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2018, 05:41:41 AM »
Because of the holocaust.



NAZIs has created the NASA. So; In the aim of fight against chemical weapons, we should start it with closing or destroying the NASA, the master mind of the chemical attacks. I call the Kremlin to take precaution about the new center of the NAZI's !
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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2018, 05:44:31 AM »
My point is the thread topic.

"Why are chemical weapons a red line."
So, your point is that if chemical weapons should be a red line, the US are allowed to bomb anyone who breaks the law?

That the US and Israel want a war in Syria for far different reasons than they publicly state or admit.

Mainly this.

http://www.hangthebankers.com/china-russia-iran-gold-backed-currency/

Where will a war in Syria lead, to a war with China, Russia and Iran.

I am sure this is pure coincidence.

Right?

Because of the holocaust.



NAZIs has created the NASA. So; In the aim of fight against chemical weapons, we should start it with closing or destroying the NASA, the master mind of the chemical attacks. I call the Kremlin to take precaution about the new center of the NAZI's !

Correct. The CIA and NASA were heavily influenced and controlled by members of the NSDAP.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 05:46:29 AM by disputeone »
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2018, 05:48:28 AM »
That the US and Israel want a war in Syria for far different reasons than they publicly state or admit.

Mainly this.

http://www.hangthebankers.com/china-russia-iran-gold-backed-currency/

Where will a war on Syria lead, to a war with China, Russia and Iran.

I am sure this is pure coincidence.

Right?

And that's why the US is allowed to bomb anyone who uses chemical weapons?
Or is that why chemical weapons shouldn't be criticised?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2018, 05:53:13 AM »
You're desperately creating a strawman. I don't think the US should play world police at all.

That's merely the reason they want a war. It's far more comfortable to believe that Assad gasses kids for teh lulz and America wants to save them than to believe we would start a world war to protect the petrodollar and IMF. Just like it was far more comfortable to believe Saddam had WMDs.

The use of chemical weapons was a false flag to start another bankers war.

The US can do whatever they like because they have the strongest military currently. The strong take what they will and the weak are powerless to stop them.

I am not arguing the morality of the situation. Merely the reality.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 05:54:55 AM by disputeone »
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2018, 05:56:02 AM »
You're desperately creating a strawman.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought the point of this thread was to discuss why chemical weapons are so heavily criticised.

I don't think the US should play world police at all.

That's merely the reason they want a war. It's far more comfortable to believe that Assad gasses kids for teh lulz. Just like it was far more comfortable to believe Saddam had WMDs.

The use of chemical weapons was a false flag to start another bankers war.

The US can do whatever they like because they are the strongest military currently. The strong take what they will and the weak are powerless to stop them.

I am not arguing the morality of the situation. Merely the reality.
So, what does this have to do with why chemical weapons are a red line?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2018, 05:58:18 AM »
So, what does this have to do with why chemical weapons are a red line?

That the US and Israel have made an imaginary red line in order to start another war for the petro-dollar and IMF.

Intikam is correct.

USA and its allies are using chemical weapons in Afghanistan, Yemen, Somali and other nations at every day and night.
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Whose narrative is it to not believe the government?

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disputeone

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2018, 06:04:06 AM »
Why not bomb Israel for using white phosphorous?

http://www.clevelandchallenger.com/u-s-media-suppressed-2009-un-report-showing-israel-using-chemical-weapons-against-palestinians/

Quote
This Palestinian teenager is one of the victims of the Israeli military’s illegal white phosphorous missile attacks on unarmed civilians, including a UN relief compound set up to shelter and provide medical attention to Palestinian refugees. Israel’s military conducted its own investigation of the incidents, apologized for the attack and called it a “grave error.” A UN fact finding mission overseen by South African lawyer and former justice Richard Goldstone called the use of white phosphorous a “war crime.”

Edit.

Meanwhile, Evar is like.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 06:06:19 AM by disputeone »
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Master_Evar

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Re: Why are chemical weapons a red line?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2018, 06:28:05 AM »
That the US and Israel have made an imaginary red line in order to start another war for the petro-dollar and IMF.
Did THEY really make a red line, or are they using (or abusing) existing ones?
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!