If earth orbits the sun, how come it never falls out of orbit?

Hi, everyone.

I no longer believe the earth is round. One of the most glaring pieces of evidence is the fact that there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun, a supposedly massive object speeding through the universe at supposedly "483,000 miles per hour".

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles". We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question and I don't think there is a possible explanation using conventional science, or the dumb assumption that the earth orbits the sun. So like Sherlock Holmes once said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Keep it flat, people!

The "Q" in Flat Earth Q&A stands for "Question".

Supposedly there is no way that apparently so-called Earth can supposedly be apparenly in supposed "orbit" around the supposed apparent Moon's dark side with no light from the apparently flat supposed Sun.

Hi, everyone.

I no longer believe the earth is round.

OK. Believe what you want.

What you question below is more about whether the entire universe rotates around the earth, or the earth is moving within the solar system and the solar system is moving within the galaxy and the galaxy is moving with respect to other galaxies. None has any particular relevance to whether the earth is "round", or flat, or some other shape.

One of the most glaring pieces of evidence is the fact that there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun, a supposedly massive object speeding through the universe at supposedly "483,000 miles per hour".

The impressive-sounding "483,000 miles per hour" doesn't matter at all if it's in a straight line and doesn't change. Can a bored kid use a fidget spinner (remember those?) in a car moving at 50 miles per hour? Does it matter if the car is going a steady 50 or 70? Steady motion in one direction simply doesn't matter at all in that case.

Why would it matter, with the earth moving around a steadily-moving sun, if the sun were moving at one furlong per fortnight (a furlong is 1/8 mile and a fortnight is two weeks) or 483,000 miles per hour? It doesn't, just as the fidget spinner doesn't care if the car is stopped or going 100 MPH.

It doesn't matter at all. The earth remains in orbit around the sun because there is no friction or drag to slow it down (unlike the fidget spinner, which has friction and will stop on its own after a relatively short time, whether the car is moving or not).

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles".

The constant velocity of the solar system within the cosmos has no effect on speed of the earth or its orbit within the solar system. At all. 

We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

There is nothing that would cause us to roast. You expect some hypersonic wind to be whooshing past us as we race through the universe, but there is no such wind, because earth isn't moving through air. Our air is carried along with us, and since it travels along with us, it isn't moving at all to us.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question and I don't think there is a possible explanation using conventional science, or the dumb assumption that the earth orbits the sun. So like Sherlock Holmes once said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Sometimes it's hard to believe the numbers we see since they are outside our normal experiences. We're used to speeds like 60 miles per hour relative to the signs and trees a few feet or few dozen feet away, so speeds like 20 mi/sec (72,000 miles per hour) around the sun, 93 million miles away, are hard to comprehend. They are real, though, whether we want to comprehend them or not.

Have you ever heard some really big number described as "astronomical"? That term is used because, compared to what almost everyone is used to on earth, distances, sizes, and speeds in even nearby space are hugely larger.

Keep it flat, people!

No, thanks. I'd rather keep it real.

Hi, everyone.

I no longer believe the earth is round. One of the most glaring pieces of evidence is the fact that there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun, a supposedly massive object speeding through the universe at supposedly "483,000 miles per hour".

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles". We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question and I don't think there is a possible explanation using conventional science, or the dumb assumption that the earth orbits the sun. So like Sherlock Holmes once said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Keep it flat, people!

Stick around for 100 quintillion years and enjoy the show 

Quote from: Dogwith300satellites on April 08, 2018, 05:14:52 PM

Hi, everyone.

I no longer believe the earth is round. One of the most glaring pieces of evidence is the fact that there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun, a supposedly massive object speeding through the universe at supposedly "483,000 miles per hour".

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles". We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question and I don't think there is a possible explanation using conventional science, or the dumb assumption that the earth orbits the sun. So like Sherlock Holmes once said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Keep it flat, people!

Stick around for 100 quintillion years and enjoy the show 

Suddenly $10,000,000 for immortality sound pretty reasonable.

In a globe Earth, the air moves along with the Earth so you can still hear stuff even though you're breaking the speed of sound. The air is staying still relative to the Earth.

Hi, everyone.

I no longer believe the earth is round. One of the most glaring pieces of evidence is the fact that there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun, a supposedly massive object speeding through the universe at supposedly "483,000 miles per hour".

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles". We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question and I don't think there is a possible explanation using conventional science, or the dumb assumption that the earth orbits the sun. So like Sherlock Holmes once said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Keep it flat, people!

Things are not "impossible" just because you don't understand them, or because you don't like them.

The Earth's behavior is no different from behavior of other planets, and their moons.
Jupiter goes even faster, Jupiter's moons orbit Jupiter and the whole system orbits Sun.
Same goes for Earth-Moon system.

The whole thing was balanced long before there was life on the Earth.
If it wasn't here, it would happen elsewhere.
We don't have enough data to say if it happened or not.

But we have enough data to say "it could happen".
It already happened here, which means laws of nature allow it, whether we know them or not.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question and I don't think there is a possible explanation using conventional science

If I were you I would go talk to a physics/astronomy/math teacher at your local high school or college. There are mathematical formulas about gravity and angular momentum. Ask them if the orbit of the Earth around the Sun is mathematically impossible.

Ask them about ways that you can use personally use something like a telescope or something to test the math and see if it adds up.

There are these things called the laws of physics. These are not theories. These are not theorems. They are laws which determine how our universe operates. The one that you would be most interested in is Newton's law of universal gravitation.

Ask the teacher how Newton's law of universal gravitation came to be. Ask about ways that you can test Newton's law of universal gravitation yourself to verify if it is, or is not accurate.

"If earth orbits the sun, how come it never falls out of orbit?"

There is no air up there to cause drag.
The whole air we see here is part of the Earth and orbits together with it.
So, the orbital energy of the Earth remains constant.

When Earth gets a bit closer, more energy becomes kinetic energy and less becomes potential energy.
More kinetic energy is reflected in greater tangential speed.
When Earth gets a bit farther, more energy becomes potential energy and less becomes kinetic energy.
Less kinetic energy is reflected in lower tangential speed.

During travel from aphelion to perihelion speed increases.
During travel from perihelion to aphelion speed decreases.

(Aphelion - maximum distance from Sun / Helios, Jul 4, 2014 it was 152 093 407 km
Perihelion - minimum distance from Sun / Helios, Jan 4, 2014 it was 147 104 780 km.)

The conservation of orbital energy balances the tangential speed.
In adequate frame of reference we have balance between centripetal and centrifugal force.
The resultant keeps the Earth in orbit.

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles". We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question...

Out of interest, where did you look for answers? 20 years should have been sufficient, what with the internet and all..

There are these things called the laws of physics. These are not theories.

A physical law is a theoretical statement.

Quote from: Dogwith300satellites on April 08, 2018, 05:14:52 PM

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles". We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question...

Out of interest, where did you look for answers? 20 years should have been sufficient, what with the internet and all..

Lots and lots of flat earth youtube videos I should suppose.


Without hearing from the "otherside" I might add.

20 years. Riiiight

rabinoz has taken a mission to sabotage this issue. He will may come here after a few mins. This is my estimation with all my clear heart.   

And bingo! But is this the sort of post you expected Mr Brotherhod of the Deceivers?

A physical law is a theoretical statement.

Based on a lot of experimental evidence. Though in most case a "physical law" might be more accurately called a "physical theory".

"Newton's Laws of Motion and Universal Gravitation" would be better called "Newton's Theories of Motion and Universal Gravitation".
They were the result of extensive experimentation, but as demonstrated by Einstein's GR only have a finite range of applicability.
Even so for almost all calculations on earth Newton's Theories of Motion and Universal Gravitation are accurate to as close as could be measured.

Quote from: iamcpc on April 08, 2018, 11:28:29 PM

There are these things called the laws of physics. These are not theories.

A physical law is a theoretical statement.

If you are going to quote wikipedia why crop just that part?
Taken from wikipedia:
A physical law or scientific law is a theoretical statement "inferred from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present."[1] Physical laws are typically conclusions based on repeated scientific experiments and observations over many years and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community. The production of a summary description of our environment in the form of such laws is a fundamental aim of science. These terms are not used the same way by all authors.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 28, 2018, 02:36:41 PM

A physical law is a theoretical statement.

Based on a lot of experimental evidence. Though in most case a "physical law" might be more accurately called a "physical theory".

"Newton's Laws of Motion and Universal Gravitation" would be better called "Newton's Theories of Motion and Universal Gravitation".
They were the result of extensive experimentation, but as demonstrated by Einstein's GR only have a finite range of applicability.
Even so for almost all calculations on earth Newton's Theories of Motion and Universal Gravitation are accurate to as close as could be measured.

You have came here to sabotage sir. You are saying lie. You can't prove something by saying some names as, Newton, Einstein, gravitation, ...etc. abstract concepts and names can not be evidence. you must provide concrete evidence, mister without proofinoz.

meanwhile, I think you have said you ignored me. What about?  You can't ignore your inner sound mister!

PS: Sorry I gave missing information: You can get rid of me, ie your inner sound. Yeah, you can get rid of your inner sound. But when you get rid of me, it means then you have dead.

Quote from: rabinoz on April 30, 2018, 05:41:37 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 28, 2018, 02:36:41 PM

A physical law is a theoretical statement.

Based on a lot of experimental evidence. Though in most case a "physical law" might be more accurately called a "physical theory".

"Newton's Laws of Motion and Universal Gravitation" would be better called "Newton's Theories of Motion and Universal Gravitation".
They were the result of extensive experimentation, but as demonstrated by Einstein's GR only have a finite range of applicability.
Even so for almost all calculations on earth Newton's Theories of Motion and Universal Gravitation are accurate to as close as could be measured.

You have came here to sabotage sir. You are saying lie. You can't prove something by saying some names as, Newton, Einstein, gravitation, ...etc. abstract concepts and names can not be evidence. you must provide concrete evidence, mister without proofinoz.

The proof is in the years of experiments, many of which are still regularly performed in schools, colleges, universities, science fairs and museums.  Not to mention the fact that engineers, architects, designers and many others use Newton's laws regularly in their day to day work.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 28, 2018, 02:36:41 PM

Quote from: iamcpc on April 08, 2018, 11:28:29 PM

There are these things called the laws of physics. These are not theories.

A physical law is a theoretical statement.

If you are going to quote wikipedia why crop just that part?

Ummm, because I felt like it?

there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun,

Why not?

Quote from: Dogwith300satellites on April 08, 2018, 05:14:52 PM

there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun,

Why not?

The Earth will eventually plunge into the sun if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase. Just give it some time

Quote from: 29silhouette on April 30, 2018, 10:40:37 AM

Quote from: Dogwith300satellites on April 08, 2018, 05:14:52 PM

there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun,

Why not?

The Earth will eventually plunge into the sun if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase. Just give it some time

Like to justify that claim? All references I can find say the opposite.

Hi, everyone.

I no longer believe the earth is round. One of the most glaring pieces of evidence is the fact that there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun, a supposedly massive object speeding through the universe at supposedly "483,000 miles per hour".

I don't know about you, but I don't see how the earth not just moves 483,000 miles per hour, but also enough speed to go a full circle around the apparent earth orbit of "584 million miles". We should all be roasted like chicken at that speed and not be able to hear anything because things are moving many times faster than the speed of sound.

For the last 20 years I have been trying to figure out this question and I don't think there is a possible explanation using conventional science, or the dumb assumption that the earth orbits the sun. So like Sherlock Holmes once said, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Keep it flat, people!

Can I ask how you know the speed of the sun? Have you actually measured it? Or do you know and understand how this speed was determined by those who did?

Why do you think there is no explanation for the suns velocity, could you please take us through your line of reasoning. Where did those who made the calculation of the figure you quoted go wrong?

If this is not the velocity of the sun what figure  do your own calculations produce.

Quote from: Shifter on April 30, 2018, 03:27:53 PM

Quote from: 29silhouette on April 30, 2018, 10:40:37 AM

Quote from: Dogwith300satellites on April 08, 2018, 05:14:52 PM

there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun,

Why not?

The Earth will eventually plunge into the sun if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase. Just give it some time

Like to justify that claim? All references I can find say the opposite.

Care to justify yours? Or are you just 'opposite whatever Shifter says'

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/timeline-shows-death-earth-universe-100-quintillion-years-future-1432675

It's a pretty common assumption by the way

Quote from: rabinoz on May 01, 2018, 03:26:07 AM

Quote from: Shifter on April 30, 2018, 03:27:53 PM

Quote from: 29silhouette on April 30, 2018, 10:40:37 AM

Quote from: Dogwith300satellites on April 08, 2018, 05:14:52 PM

there is no way the earth can stay in orbit IF it supposedly orbits around the sun,

Why not?

The Earth will eventually plunge into the sun if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase. Just give it some time

Like to justify that claim? All references I can find say the opposite.

Care to justify yours? Or are you just 'opposite whatever Shifter says'

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/timeline-shows-death-earth-universe-100-quintillion-years-future-1432675

It's a pretty common assumption by the way

Actually, there are several possible end of the universe scenarios being debated, but the earth being swallowed up by the sun's red giant phase is pretty consistent among them.
http://theconversation.com/the-fate-of-the-universe-heat-death-big-rip-or-cosmic-consciousness-46157

Quote from: rabinoz on May 01, 2018, 03:26:07 AM

Quote from: Shifter on April 30, 2018, 03:27:53 PM

The Earth will eventually plunge into the sun if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase. Just give it some time

Like to justify that claim? All references I can find say the opposite.

Care to justify yours? Or are you just 'opposite whatever Shifter says'

Yes, I can justify mine.
And it's "just 'opposite whatever Shifter says' ".
I had suspected that just as the moon's orbit is growing at about 4 cm/year, the earth's orbit would also be also growing for a similar reason.
And it turns out that there are at two reasons for this (see below), but it is at quite a negligible rate.

Also, what bugs me most, is that a debate is running, in this case about the orbit of the earth around the sun.
Then you come along and dive in with something "100 quintillion years future", which is obviously quite irrelevant and totally meaningless to any flat-earthers involved.
From then on any debate is totally stuffed!
I know you think that any idea about the flat earth is ridiculous, but to dive in like that is totally counter-productive!

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/timeline-shows-death-earth-universe-100-quintillion-years-future-1432675

It's a pretty common assumption by the way

maybe its "a pretty common assumption" in "100 quintillion years future", but I really couldn't care less about "100 quintillion years future"!

But in the "shorter term" (if a bit under 4 billion years is short term) the earth is moving away from the sun because of:

• Tidal effects from the sun and
• The sun's losing mass.

Though both effects are extremely small.
Why is the Earth moving away from the sun?
Ask an Astronomer, Is the distance from the Earth to the Sun changing? and I'd "Ask an Astronomer" before you any day!

And I said a bit under 4 billion years above, because in about 4 billion years the sun is expected to become a red giant and one of (at least) two things might happen:

• The sun might not expand to the earth's orbit and could then drive the earth even further from the sun or
• The sun might expand to the earth's orbit and swallow the earth.

That second case is essentially your "destroyed in the red giant phase".

By the way, I couldn't care less about even the 4 billion years. I would prefer to keep the discussions to what happened in recorded history till the present.
Going millions of years into the past or future completely loses any flat-earthers. I wouldn't dare say more here!

Actually, there are several possible end of the universe scenarios being debated, but the earth being swallowed up by the sun's red giant phase is pretty consistent among them.
http://theconversation.com/the-fate-of-the-universe-heat-death-big-rip-or-cosmic-consciousness-46157

This is why I used the qualifier  "if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase"

Quote from: Shifter on May 01, 2018, 05:09:33 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on May 01, 2018, 03:26:07 AM

Quote from: Shifter on April 30, 2018, 03:27:53 PM

The Earth will eventually plunge into the sun if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase. Just give it some time

Like to justify that claim? All references I can find say the opposite.

Care to justify yours? Or are you just 'opposite whatever Shifter says'

Yes, I can justify mine.
And it's "just 'opposite whatever Shifter says' ".
I had suspected that just as the moon's orbit is growing at about 4 cm/year, the earth's orbit would also be also growing for a similar reason.
And it turns out that there are at two reasons for this (see below), but it is at quite a negligible rate.

Also, what bugs me most, is that a debate is running, in this case about the orbit of the earth around the sun.
Then you come along and dive in with something "100 quintillion years future", which is obviously quite irrelevant and totally meaningless to any flat-earthers involved.
From then on any debate is totally stuffed!
I know you think that any idea about the flat earth is ridiculous, but to dive in like that is totally counter-productive!

Quote from: Shifter

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/timeline-shows-death-earth-universe-100-quintillion-years-future-1432675

It's a pretty common assumption by the way

maybe its "a pretty common assumption" in "100 quintillion years future", but I really couldn't care less about "100 quintillion years future"!

But in the "shorter term" (if a bit under 4 billion years is short term) the earth is moving away from the sun because of:

• Tidal effects from the sun and
• The sun's losing mass.

Though both effects are extremely small.
Why is the Earth moving away from the sun?
Ask an Astronomer, Is the distance from the Earth to the Sun changing? and I'd "Ask an Astronomer" before you any day!

And I said a bit under 4 billion years above, because in about 4 billion years the sun is expected to become a red giant and one of (at least) two things might happen:

• The sun might not expand to the earth's orbit and could then drive the earth even further from the sun or
• The sun might expand to the earth's orbit and swallow the earth.

That second case is essentially your "destroyed in the red giant phase".

By the way, I couldn't care less about even the 4 billion years. I would prefer to keep the discussions to what happened in recorded history till the present.
Going millions of years into the past or future completely loses any flat-earthers. I wouldn't dare say more here!

The OP stated that the Earth never falls out of orbit. I showed him that it does. He is the one who used 'never', so I couldn't care less if you are only concerned with 'recorded' history to the present day. He is talking about an infinite time scale and his premise of his question 'never falls out of orbit' is wrong

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2018, 06:26:26 AM

Actually, there are several possible end of the universe scenarios being debated, but the earth being swallowed up by the sun's red giant phase is pretty consistent among them.
http://theconversation.com/the-fate-of-the-universe-heat-death-big-rip-or-cosmic-consciousness-46157

This is why I used the qualifier  "if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase"

I seriously doubt that anyone will be around to find out for sure.

Quote from: Shifter on May 01, 2018, 02:45:06 PM

Quote from: markjo on May 01, 2018, 06:26:26 AM

Actually, there are several possible end of the universe scenarios being debated, but the earth being swallowed up by the sun's red giant phase is pretty consistent among them.
http://theconversation.com/the-fate-of-the-universe-heat-death-big-rip-or-cosmic-consciousness-46157

This is why I used the qualifier  "if not captured by another stellar object or destroyed in the red giant phase"

I seriously doubt that anyone will be around to find out for sure.

Oh, we will be. Of that you can be sure