Apollo Mission Preparation and Crew Training

Quote from: dutchy on March 26, 2018, 10:34:54 AM

@rabinoz

Wow

I do hope you liked Patrick Germain's "Stanley Kubrick Explanation" of the supposed Lunar Mission Hoax. 

But what I simply cannot grasp with you Lunar Landing Hoaxers is that you come out with so many different stories.

Did you read this?

Quote from: rabinoz on March 21, 2018, 03:41:56 PM

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By the way, have you ever read this:

Quote

War and Pieces
One NASA protagonist, attempting to put things in perspective while demonstrating the weakness of the argument of the Apollo hoax theory, asked one of our readers, given the premise that Apollo was hoaxed, whether he thought that WWII was hoaxed? This question muddles the two principal arguments concerning Apollo:

          A. That we never went to the Moon.
          B. That the official record is not the true representation of manned lunar exploration.

We have never stated that human beings did not explore the lunar surface. Our hypothesis has always been that although research evidence suggests that the named Apollo astronauts did not venture beyond low Earth orbit, in all probability surrogates were sent to the Moon in the late 1960s.

Read all about it in: AULIS Online, Apollo Investigation

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Now AULIS Online, Apollo Investigation is very much a pro-Lunar Landing Hoax site and goes into the Lunar Landing Hoax far deeper than you ever could on your own.
It pretty much every covers every detail you bring up (supposedly from your own "common sense" and marvelous powers of deduction), yet still says this:
"We have never stated that human beings did not explore the lunar surface. Our hypothesis has always been that although research evidence suggests that the named Apollo astronauts did not venture beyond low Earth orbit, in all probability surrogates were sent to the Moon in the late 1960s."

If you Lunar Landing Hoaxers spoke with one voice you might be slightly believable, but they range through

• die-hards like yourself, who cannot allow themselves to accept any space travel - for reasons,
  
  
• a few, like Papa Legba and his alter ego, Gaia_Redonda who believe that the earth is a Globe, but refuse to accept any space travel,
  
  
• those who, like Heiwa, who accept that the earth is a Globe and that LEO orbits are real, but deny any possibility of humans in space,
  
  
• others who accept that human travel in LEO, such as in the ISS, is quite feasible but deny that Armstrong or anyone else went to the moon and finally
  
  
• those that even accept that human beings did explore the lunar surface but in "all probability surrogates were sent to the Moon in the late 1960s".

But, you're such a mixed bag, that presents such a confused message that the simplest explanation really is that

Neil Armstrong et al did really land on the moon on July 20, 1969!

Life is complex and you will never hear me claim some made up details about how things work on a flatearth.
Instead i can only discuss those things i understand and i try to avoid to be a pretentious knowledagble authority only because a have access to the internet.
The vast majority over here couldn't have a one on one conversation about any of the subjects without a computer to copy paste their own knowledge to unhealty heights of self betrayal.
But they really believe 'copy paste' knowledge that you borrow for a moment equals knowledge that was obtained through years of study and experience.
Most discussions are therefor between online sources instead of human interaction.

I am extremely experienced in human behaviour , have to deal with humans on a daily basis in their private surroundings and was an early adaptor in the world of amature psychology, esotery and religions in general.
No wonder i talk about the moonlandings so much, because Neil, Buzz , Ed and Adam Stelzner ..... to name a few, are obvious shenanigans and i am still amazed how peopke like yourself cannot see through that extreme pretentious outer layer of any of the names i mentioned.
Lots of online videos to check out !

And if you took the time to read below in the huge comment sections you will notice that at least half of the ordinary people understand that something is really fishy and that all signs are on red alert.

Funny isn't it ? The vast majority isn't expert in rocket science or space travel, so granted that the experts are ahead by quite some margin......
But in observing human behaviour the playing field is far more narrow
Ordinary people can detect certain behaviour,.... it comes natural.

And especcially those who haven't a pre dominant stand on the moonlandings all conclude that the astronaut's interviews are so bizare and weird that it is a starting point to raise some more questions.
But to you the interviews are as normal as can be, taking into account the circomstances......
Your pre dominant notion is blinding you for far to long !

Quote from: rabinoz on March 26, 2018, 03:06:32 PM

Quote from: dutchy on March 26, 2018, 10:34:54 AM

@rabinoz

Wow

I do hope you liked Patrick Germain's "Stanley Kubrick Explanation" of the supposed Lunar Mission Hoax. 

But what I simply cannot grasp with you Lunar Landing Hoaxers is that you come out with so many different stories.

Did you read this?

Quote from: rabinoz on March 21, 2018, 03:41:56 PM

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By the way, have you ever read this:

Quote

War and Pieces
One NASA protagonist, attempting to put things in perspective while demonstrating the weakness of the argument of the Apollo hoax theory, asked one of our readers, given the premise that Apollo was hoaxed, whether he thought that WWII was hoaxed? This question muddles the two principal arguments concerning Apollo:

          A. That we never went to the Moon.
          B. That the official record is not the true representation of manned lunar exploration.

We have never stated that human beings did not explore the lunar surface. Our hypothesis has always been that although research evidence suggests that the named Apollo astronauts did not venture beyond low Earth orbit, in all probability surrogates were sent to the Moon in the late 1960s.

Read all about it in: AULIS Online, Apollo Investigation

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Now AULIS Online, Apollo Investigation is very much a pro-Lunar Landing Hoax site and goes into the Lunar Landing Hoax far deeper than you ever could on your own.
It pretty much every covers every detail you bring up (supposedly from your own "common sense" and marvelous powers of deduction), yet still says this:
"We have never stated that human beings did not explore the lunar surface. Our hypothesis has always been that although research evidence suggests that the named Apollo astronauts did not venture beyond low Earth orbit, in all probability surrogates were sent to the Moon in the late 1960s."

If you Lunar Landing Hoaxers spoke with one voice you might be slightly believable, but they range through

• die-hards like yourself, who cannot allow themselves to accept any space travel - for reasons,
  
  
• a few, like Papa Legba and his alter ego, Gaia_Redonda who believe that the earth is a Globe, but refuse to accept any space travel,
  
  
• those who, like Heiwa, who accept that the earth is a Globe and that LEO orbits are real, but deny any possibility of humans in space,
  
  
• others who accept that human travel in LEO, such as in the ISS, is quite feasible but deny that Armstrong or anyone else went to the moon and finally
  
  
• those that even accept that human beings did explore the lunar surface but in "all probability surrogates were sent to the Moon in the late 1960s".

But, you're such a mixed bag, that presents such a confused message that the simplest explanation really is that

Neil Armstrong et al did really land on the moon on July 20, 1969!

Life is complex and you will never hear me claim some made up details about how things work on a flatearth.
Instead i can only discuss those things i understand and i try to avoid to be a pretentious knowledagble authority only because a have access to the internet.

In other words you admit that have nothing but your subjective opinions. But you have no more first-hand knowledge of these things than I do, probably less.

Even your subjective opinions, however, must be based on information from some source, otherwise they are worse than useless!
So where did you get the information? Almost certainly from either the internet or from what you have heard others say.

Now don't try to deny that you got the following information from 2nd or 3rd hand sources - your arguments about:

• the "impossibility" of the earliest satellites with no "remote control" for course correction,
• the impossibility of the Apollo missions with 1960s technology,
• the Coke bottle,
• the Van Allen belt radiation,
• the supposedly too fragile construction of the LM and
• and I could go on and on and on!

And I'll guarantee that your sources were largely from other anti-NASA hoaxers - in fact I know that it had to be.
I do at least got back and look at the NASA research, design and mission report documents as well as what others say, even from sites like, AULIS Online, Apollo Investigation

Stop being a total hypocrite, you rely on either the internet of other, probably less reliable sources, for all the information and data you use in your arguments.

And if it all came out of your own massive intellect, then it's immediately no more than fairy stories.

"Do your own research, because i avoid the 'source war' as much as i can."

This might well be the most irksome answer someone can give when pushed for a credible authority on a subject.

"Do your own research, because i avoid the 'source war' as much as i can."

This might well be the most irksome answer someone can give when pushed for a credible authority on a subject.

Right? Like, that's just... not how it works... at all. You can't just say "I'm not going to give you evidence for my outlandish claim" when someone asks you for evidence.

Not wanting to participate in source wars = I have nothing to show.

I hit a nerve i guess, because all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner ) are punching far above your own 'weight'.
Of course i understand that sometimes sources are very usefull and a must !
But i was of course talking about something entirely different.
But let me give you an example and i'll keep it very simple for the likes of rabinoz.
SG Collins claims they could not have faked the Apollo moon footage as shown, due to limited camera's / film unable to produce the slow motion as hoaxers claim was created by slowing down the footage.

Jarrah White claims he made a few wrong assumption about the cameras and technology in use.

Second round......A counter argument from both sides in debunk videos

Pro Apollo forums accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education

Pro Jarrah supporters and hoaxers claim that SG Collins is a clear payed shill who exagerated his own credentials

Several others give their comments on yet another video and the neutral has to pick sides



Not one of us knows what technology was available for NASA, unless you believe they shared everything with the general public.
It could well be they had technologies at their disposal long before it became consumer technology and common knowledge.

So each one of SG Collins and Jarrah White could be right and the other one a pretender.

To me it is obvious that SG Collins is the greatest pretender of them both, claiming in his video that when the American government doesn't lie to you this morning it is probably because they didn't had coffee yet.
This is a well known phenomena of negative framing of ......in this case the government , but it is no less than an evasive manouvre with a clear purpose.
Support and join the hoaxers in their deep mistrust of the government and then exclude one governmental project (moonlandings) from any form of corruption and fakery !
The negative comments about the government has increased your chances of promoting something in control of that very scumbag government that wasn't fraudulent considerably .

I understand that most of you simple and down to earth members like rabinoz fail to understand any of this... so i am looking forward to his/your replies 
Bottom line, the most important fact is not about what camera or film were used by NASA in 1969, because we only know approximately..... and both SG Collins and Jarrah White's claims could be right ,.... their claims aren't that far apart !!!
No one could ever be certain of that !
And an endless repetition about 1969 'camera's' wouldn't answer anything !

So please refrain from your simpleton replies that claim that i don't want to name sources.
Context my simpleton fellow forum members....... context ! 

All good and fine, but I'd refrain from calling others simpletons. Reflects poorly on you.

And, you know, usually the people who have a need to appeal to their supposedly superior qualities, for example heightened critical thinking, fall short of actually having said qualities.

All good and fine, but I'd refrain from calling others simpletons. Reflects poorly on you.

And, you know, usually the people who have a need to appeal to their supposedly superior qualities, for example heightened critical thinking, fall short of actually having said qualities.

Don't go there...
I have absolutely every right to call each and anyone of you simpletons after the remarks made in this very topic about 'nothing to show for '
Either you are a simpleton or wilffuly ignoring all my input,...... your choice !
Willfully misinterpreting what i wrote in an honest attempt to share my point of view...,And don't deny it.......

Your input is mostly your claims and innuendoes, and, at best, dubious sources.

Your input are mostly your claims and innuendoes, and, at best, dubious sources.

That's an easy and scary proposition ........ all sources conflicting with the norm are of course dubious...... that's how authority works !
We shouldn't question anything ever again and let those who studied specific areas draw all the conclusions about our roots, reality, environment and future...

Are you so afraid to question anything the scientific world comes up with ?
Did you handover your very essence, roots,  past, present and future in their hands to declare ?
If so , i pity you very much....

We shouldn't question anything ever again and let those who studied specific areas draw all the conclusions about our roots, reality, environment and future...

Why do people say stupid things like this?  Of course you should question authority.  Authority needs to be challenged every now and then.  But don't forget to consider the possibility that just maybe authority knows what its talking about every once in a while.

Pro Apollo forums accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education

Because Jarrah has been known, and proven, to purposefully lie and fake information.

Pro Jarrah supporters and hoaxers claim that SG Collins is a clear payed shill who exagerated his own credentials

Without evidence, mind you.

Not one of us knows what technology was available for NASA, unless you believe they shared everything with the general public.

Why should we believe they had some super, god-tier tech back then then?

It could well be they had technologies at their disposal long before it became consumer technology and common knowledge.

Such as?

So each one of SG Collins and Jarrah White could be right and the other one a pretender.

Or Jarrah could be, and is, a liar, who knows a little about a lot, while Collins, someone with 30 years of experience, knows a lot about a little. In this case, Collins wins.

To me it is obvious that SG Collins is the greatest pretender of them both, claiming in his video that when the American government doesn't lie to you this morning it is probably because they didn't had coffee yet.

How do jokes work?

This is a well known phenomena of negative framing of ......in this case the government , but it is no less than an evasive manouvre with a clear purpose.

He made a j o k e.

Support and join the hoaxers in their deep mistrust of the government and then exclude one governmental project (moonlandings) from any form of corruption and fakery !

He never said he supported hoaxers at all. Stop making strawman claims.

Bottom line, the most important fact is not about what camera or film were used by NASA in 1969, because we only know approximately..... and both SG Collins and Jarrah White's claims could be right ,.... their claims aren't that far apart !!!
No one could ever be certain of that !

Incorrect.

So please refrain from your simpleton replies that claim that i don't want to name sources.

No. Provide sources or lose credibility.

Context my simpleton fellow forum members....... context ! 

K bro.

I hit a nerve i guess, because all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner ) are punching far above your own 'weight'.
. . . . . . . .
Pro Apollo forums accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education

Pro Jarrah supporters and hoaxers claim that SG Collins is a clear payed shill who exagerated his own credentials

Yes, dutchy, you hit a nerve by making false accusations!
But for you, that's nothing new for you, though most of your victims cannot very well answer back, but I can!

You accuse me of "punching far above your my own 'weight'! You have no weight - all you ever seem to post is lies (proven below) and innuendo dragged from moon hoaxer sites!

Really? You single out me in "rabinoz as frontrunner", but I do a search on my own posts and can find nowhere did I "accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education".

Maybe you did not explicitly say that I claimed that, but rabinoz is the only name you mention in this and in your scurrilous "Muslim" accusation.

I searched my own posts back 3 months for so for "Jarrah White dirty lying bitch" and guess what, I find this:
I made no such statement! I claimed that Jarah White was incorrect - that is totally different.
So please stop lying and making false accusations!

Not only that, but earlier we had:

Quote from: dutchy on March 22, 2018, 05:56:48 AM

But the posters here ( like rabinoz) are often the same ones who believe a muslim who could barely fly a Cessna could stear a Boeing into the WTC, because the guy practiced in a computer simulator a few times + autopilot on  the day.

As far as I can find only two people on this site used the words "muslim" and "Cessna" is any post. One was Heiwa (please don't associate me with that idiot) and the other YOU!
I did not say that and can find no-one that I can find except you that even suggested that!
Justify you claim immediately, or we'll all know that we can't trust a word that you say!
Good pilots (Muslim or not) can and do fly new types of flying machine with only flight simulator training and in the early days with no training on that craft.

Again you single me out with your lying accusations! Frankly, dutchy, I no longer trust a word you say!

If you disagree with my claims, please show immediately where I said anything like, "muslim who could barely fly a Cessna could stear a Boeing into the WTC".
Or where I, "accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education".


Below are the places where I mentioned Jarrah White in the last 3 months or so:

Really? Here's his reply to Jarrah White's heap of incorrect claims:

for jarrah, sgcollins

Fail, Jarrah White and you both ignore the commonly known fact that the reflectivity of much of the lunar surface is much higher back along the direction of the incident light.

If Jarrah White watched the Nvidia video carefully he might have learned this himself!
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This information is available from numerous sources and Jarrah White is negligent in not checking this out before his debunking effect.

And your ever-so-smart Jarrah White simulates this reflective behaviour with a bitumen road with reflective properties nothing like regolith!

.
Not only has he quite incorrectly used bitumen to simulate the lunar surface, but
1) he has blocked off any light from behind the toy LEM and
2) assumed a flat lunar surface.

No, Jarrah White's debunking attempt is a monstrous failure.

Quote from: dutchy on January 12, 2018, 04:34:02 PM

NVIDIA vastly exagerated the surface albedo parameters to make sure the results would confirm the contrasts in a photograph featuring Buzz Alldrin.
You did watch the video i hope ? Users found their little misleading parameters !!!

And what experts told you that? Ones like Jarrah White who "simulated" the reflective properties of lunar regolith with  bitumen !

Quote from: dutchy

I have no idea who your experts are .......

And I have no idea who your experts are, but if they are no better than Jarrah White, Bart Sibrel and Bill Kaysing I'd suggest you find some more.
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I know I claimed that Jarrah White was mistaken with much of his Moon Hoax evidence (and I could post much more).
But if you put so much reliance on Jarrah White expertise maybe you should believe "your expert" in what he says in the following videos.

. . . . . .
I'm curious, dutchy, is this the same Jarrah White that posts so much material that strongly supports LEO human space mission?

Jarrah White proves Jeranism is a LIAR: Addendum. Dimitar Dimitrov debunked. Jarrah White Oh great, more BS from Space Travel Deniers to clean up. What did I do wrong in a past life?

Or this Jarrah White that hits out so hard against, "Flat Earthers and Space Travel Deniers"?

Jarrah White's response to Flat Earthers and Space Travel Deniers. Jarrah White "Our shuttles routinely blast off to orbit the Earth. There is not a single doubt that man is in space!" Ralph René

Or this Jarrah White that strongly supports the SpaceX program?

SpaceX: How the Falcon 9 survived Reentry. Jarrah White It's that time of the year again. The historic anniversary of Vostok 1, my mother's birthday, and the day JW Studios came to YouTube 11 years ago today.

How is it that one of your authorities on the "manned moon landing hoax" hammers the flat earth and strongly supports unmanned lunar mission and even LEO manned mission, like the ISS.

. . . . .
From what I've seen written about Jarrah White's "debunking" of other issues, I'm not going to lose any sleep, but I'll look at it and what others say about it..
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I haven't had much time to look at Jarrah White's "debunking".
But he tries to simulate the lunar surface "sand" with bitumen because Jarrah White claims it has "has the same albedo", thus proving that Jarrah White has completely missed the point of the NVidia video!
The gist of that video was that the lunar material reflected much more strongly back in the direction the light came from.
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A little "freebie" for you. You seem to believe Jarrah White's "debunking" of the lunar landing, so what about when he "proves" the earth a globe.

No 24hr live feed of full Earth? ITS BEEN DONE!!! Flat Earth debunked again., Jarrah White

Hope you enjoy it!

Do you wonder that I and others have no respect for you or your views!

Quote from: rvlvr on March 27, 2018, 11:04:28 AM

All good and fine, but I'd refrain from calling others simpletons. Reflects poorly on you.

And, you know, usually the people who have a need to appeal to their supposedly superior qualities, for example heightened critical thinking, fall short of actually having said qualities.

Don't go there...
I have absolutely every right to call each and anyone of you simpletons after the remarks made in this very topic about 'nothing to show for '
Either you are a simpleton or wilffuly ignoring all my input,...... your choice !
Willfully misinterpreting what i wrote in an honest attempt to share my point of view...,And don't deny it.......

Another little free gift, gratis:And just look what Jarrah White opens with:
As I've said before, I don't care all that much about the Moon Landing Hoax, I'll present evidence against it,
And on that issue Jarrah White and most of your other sources are quite clear, as  Jarrah White said:Hope you like it! There are many more where that came from and not just from Jarrah White.

There is not a single video you presented i did not see,....  what makes you think that way ?
Dr Zack is a flatearther i like and also Antonio Subirats ( looks stoned, maybe is , but has a lot of humor)
Those do not appear on page 1 of a google search,... so very understandable that you still live in the realms of Jeranism & co for your rebuttals.
Also your comments on Aulis and Jarrah White are a broken record.
You should check out Massimo Mazzucco and his expertise on photography ..... what he has to say about the Apollo moon footage.
But i hope your Italian is better than your logic....


Ps you should check out Joe Rogan and his turn around of the century.
He was one of the most outspoken anti Apollo persons and even silenced the great Phill Plait during a one on one.(check it out, i know your search skills allow yout to easily dig it up )
All of a sudden he made a 180 , because , according to his own words, he understood the amount of fuel in the Saturn 5 was able to bring them to the moon.

He has a nice conspiracy show since then and one of his returning guests is no less than Neil deGrasse Tyson.
As naughty boys they comment on the sometimes corrupt government, but Neil gets a platform to spread his message to the hoaxers of all kind.

The same goes for Jarrah White.
His gems and other anti Apollo series have come to an end.
He hardly invests time to promote any of it.
He still believes it was faked but concentrates on anime ( or whatever pathetic cartoon shit ) instead.
He makes a few anti flatearth video's too, but the fire is gone completely.
I think he wants a future career somewhere.... and his anti Apollo and establishment views won't help him with that.
I think he therefor stopped pushing anti Apollo sentiment and rediculed some flatearthers, making his own conspiracy vids look very reasonable and opened the way to a future career without the anti Apollo past strangling him to an obvious death , career wise

Remember he knew the likes of Bill Kaysing and Ralph Renee. The former ended up in a caravan with a cat ...... the latter was the laughing stock for the scientific community.
Of course Jarrah knows that,.....  but he is right.... to young to live in a cave with some cats the rest of his life.
He chose to alter his own obvious destiny !

There is not a single video you presented i did not see,....  what makes you think that way ?
Dr Zack is a flatearther i like and also Antonio Subirats ( looks stoned, maybe is , but has a lot of humor)
Those do not appear on page 1 of a google search,... so very understandable that you still live in the realms of Jeranism & co for your rebuttals.

Don't worry, I know enough about Dr Zack and Antonio Subirats. And who takes any notice of an ignoramus like Jeranism.

Also your comments on Aulis and Jarrah White are a broken record.

Well, maybe you should actually see what they have to say.

You should check out Massimo Mazzucco and his expertise on photography ..... what he has to say about the Apollo moon footage.
But i hope your Italian is better than your logic....

Please show me a Massimo Mazzucco video that's more than just incorrect innuendo and ridicule.
Maybe Massimo Mazzucco is an expert in photography, but he's no expert on how things were really done.
I haven't spent much time on his stuff yet, but much of what I have seen, I can simply discard from the bit I know.

Well, my Italian is virtually non-existent, grazie, but my logic seems far ahead of you in that I can explain

• why the sun rises and sets,
• why the sun and moon do not change in size over a day or night,
• why the sun rises due east and sets due west at either equinox,
• why the the horizon looks perfectly flat and sharp and
• why modern flat earthers are forced into claiming that the sun and moon circle above the earth, but ancient flat earthers did not!

Yet you are too scared to ever debate the shape of the earth!
All you ever do is pretend that if you can slay that terrible dragon NASA it will magically make everyone believe that the earth is flat!
Well it won't! NASA has nothing to do with people knowing that the earth is a rotating Globe, whatever you say!

PS I'm waiting for an apology! Though I guess you don't care about you reputation as a deceiver!

@ rabinoz
Apology ? For what ?
Me a deceiver ?

You speak in riddles my friend

@ rabinoz
Apology ? For what ?
Me a deceiver ?

You speak in riddles my friend

Don't pretend innocence, Mr Dutchy! Look:
Flat Earth General / Re: Apollo Mission Preparation and Crew Training « on: Today at 01:10:45 PM »

Quote from: dutchy on March 28, 2018, 12:18:19 AM

@ rabinoz
Apology ? For what ?
Me a deceiver ?

You speak in riddles my friend

Don't pretend innocence, Mr Dutchy! Look:
Flat Earth General / Re: Apollo Mission Preparation and Crew Training « on: Today at 01:10:45 PM »

I have no idea whatsoever what you're on about.
You are a fruntrunner here to attack me whenever i post about NASA and the moonlandings from day one. No one has done this as much as you...... which makes you a fruntrunner !

Then i said that at pro Apollo forums (Apollohoax.net) Jarrah is seen as a dirty liar and not so smart .I looked it up this week because they comment on SG Collins and Jarrah White over there and that is what i found among many more accusations towards Jarrah White.
Did or do you paticipate at Apollohoax.net ? No.

Read sir , read  !!!!!!!!!!!!

Now you owe me an apology !!

I had not known of the Apollohoax site.

Thank you!

I had not known of the Apollohoax site.

Thank you!

A great forum that has extremely detailed info that support the official storyline !
Spend quite some time to read what they had to say.
Clavius has a database with lots of details too that support the official storyline.

I hoped that it would be the other way around too..... but no !!!!

Despite all info, i am more convinced than ever what scam that horrible moonlanding really was.

Despite all info, i am more convinced than ever what scam that horrible moonlanding really was.

Can you elaborate, please? It sounds illogical.

Quote from: dutchy on March 28, 2018, 09:28:14 AM

Despite all info, i am more convinced than ever what scam that horrible moonlanding really was.

Can you elaborate, please? It sounds illogical.

Most of the info on Apollohoax.net and Clavius concentrate on technical aspects of Apollo.
I have to agree they did all they could possibly do to confirm the official statements and go into great detail to explain their understanding of the NASA catalogue.
And yes many invalid claims of hoaxers were destroyed.

But they can't handle hoaxers to well. A critical person gets banned quite easily and the ever so pompous Jay Utah is their leader which becomes clear when you read along like i did.
No need to join, because they are no where near as willing to give the opposite views the same amount of breathing space.
One thing i still object over here,...... the general forums ( entrance of most forums) are completely taken over by anti flatearthers without the moderators undertaking anything to protect the essence of this forum.
Jay Utah & co have everything under tight control and doesn't allow for to much anti NASA sentiment. Our moderators should have checked that place out years ago to see how you handle opponants ..... kidding.

Jarrah White has presented the largest library on youtube of anti Apollo material.
He also goes into great detail to explain why and how the moonlandings were faked.

I found it hard at times to determine who had the best arguments , but no clear winner despite mutual proclaimation.
Some Apollo promoters like ChrisdeValle and Astrobrant2 are among the most hostile Apollo promoters online and the debate had reached almost religious status.
Throw top NASA employee Phill Plait in the mix and you'll understand that Jarrah White was easily outnumbered.
Aulis is a site with many anti Apollo material too and some are weak , others outstanding !
I watched Russians who showed how easy you can make an Apollo landscape with backdrops in a studio and many many more that made it for me plausible that fakery is a very real option on all accounts.
So far some background info.

For me the status quo of technical aspects came to an end the moment i found so many online interviews with Apollo astronauts that are so extremely obvious that most astronauts  make things up as they go.......
From the initial press conference that , if you didn't know any better, looked far more like a funeral instead of concorers of the moon.
Edgar Michell and Buzz Alldrin make me angree and sad the same time.
What those clowns have claimed and told on tv is crinchworthy and anyone with a grain of integrity should object against such charlatans !
And the last clown in a long list is Adam Stelzner the 'mother and father' of the mars missions that has no detailed knowledge on the very subject during the post press conference of the successfull arrival of the mars rover.
I have no words to describe how weird and against common sense this man's replies are....... but the pro NASA clan lets him get away with it.


A lengthy post, but you should take the time to check out everything, you might be in for a surpise if you also read everything of the opposite opinion.
Jarrah White, Aulis and David McGowan (Wagging the moon doggie) are great starting points to understand more about who, what and why the Apollo deniers are what they are....instead of an immediate reflex of redicule.

Jarrah White has presented the largest library on youtube of anti Apollo material.
He also goes into great detail to explain why and how the moonlandings were faked.

And his material has been proven wrong time and time again.

Some Apollo promoters like ChrisdeValle and Astrobrant2 are among the most hostile Apollo promoters online and the debate had reached almost religious status.

Hostile doesn't mean wrong, though. And personally, I find Astrobrant refreshing, not hostile in any way.

Aulis is a site with many anti Apollo material too and some are weak , others outstanding !

And, like Jarrah, all, or nearly all of their crap has been disproven. Aulis is one of the least reliable sources.

I watched Russians who showed how easy you can make an Apollo landscape with backdrops in a studio and many many more that made it for me plausible that fakery is a very real option on all accounts.

But just because someone else can do this, doesn't mean NASA actually DID that. Remember, one would need to account for parallax, which is prevalent in Apollo photos and videos.

For me the status quo of technical aspects came to an end the moment i found so many online interviews with Apollo astronauts that are so extremely obvious that most astronauts  make things up as they go.......

Mind giving me one example, and explaining what about what they say shows they make things up?

From the initial press conference that , if you didn't know any better, looked far more like a funeral instead of concorers of the moon.

Ah, you mean the cherrypicked sections? Why don't you take a look at this:

And here are good explanations of WHY they seem to be tense in the cherrypicked sections: https://www.quora.com/At-the-post-flight-press-conference-of-Apollo-11-why-did-Armstrong-Aldrin-and-Collins-look-so-perplexed-and-tensed

What those clowns have claimed and told on tv is crinchworthy and anyone with a grain of integrity should object against such charlatans !

Examples?

And the last clown in a long list is Adam Stelzner the 'mother and father' of the mars missions that has no detailed knowledge on the very subject during the post press conference of the successfull arrival of the mars rover.

Are you going to actually provide us any sources, or just make claims?

Jarrah White

He's been proven wrong and debunked.

Aulis

Proven wrong to the point that it should never be referenced as a source.

Wagging the moon doggie

The same nonsense that hoaxers have been spreading for decades. He brings up no new arguments, and focuses, largely, on an emotional argument, rather than a technical one. He's also been proven wrong.

Quote from: rabinoz on March 28, 2018, 02:43:02 AM

Quote from: dutchy on March 28, 2018, 12:18:19 AM

@ rabinoz
Apology ? For what ?
Me a deceiver ?

You speak in riddles my friend

Don't pretend innocence, Mr Dutchy! Look:
Flat Earth General / Re: Apollo Mission Preparation and Crew Training « on: Today at 01:10:45 PM »

I have no idea whatsoever what you're on about.

Is you memory that bad? You claimed that "all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner )"

I hit a nerve i guess, because all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner ) are punching far above your own 'weight'.
Pro Apollo forums accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education

And right after then go on to say, "accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education".
Now you did not explicitly claim that I said that but the implication is there as plain as the nose on your face that you insisted that I am the "leader of the bunch" claiming that sort of thing"!

I can't even find any "Pro Apollo forums" claiming that sort of thing, but I'll bow to your  superior knowledge and powers of deduction .

Then earlier we had:

But the posters here ( like rabinoz) are often the same ones who believe a muslim who could barely fly a Cessna could stear a Boeing into the WTC, because the guy practiced in a computer simulator a few times + autopilot on  the day.

As far as I can find only two people on this site used the words "muslim" and "Cessna" is any post. One was Heiwa (please don't associate me with that idiot) and the other YOU!
I did not say that and can find no-one except you that even suggested that!
Justify you claim immediately, or we'll all know that we can't trust a word that you say!
Good pilots (Muslim or not) can and do fly new types of flying machine with only flight simulator training and in the early days with no training on that craft.
[/quote]
Now again you did not explicitly claim that I said that but the implication is there that I am the "leader of the bunch" claiming that sort of thing"!

Dutchy, you are a slimy debater that loves nothing better than character assassination in an to attempt to demolish you most effective opponents.
You're too ignorant to attack the actual technical information or actually present factual information that the Lunar missions did not occur, so you fall back on your attacks on the people involved and the claim that "it could have been faked" - both of which mean nothing.

You have done it repeatedly with Neil de Grasse Tyson and numerous others with the slightest connection to NASA and now you even do it to ex-Moon Hoaxers that have seen the error in the ways.

Just what initially got up your nose with NASA? Did you think that the destroyed you pet flat earth ideas? Tough, they didn't, it never was!

Is you memory that bad? You claimed that "all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner )"

Quote from: dutchy on March 27, 2018, 09:30:23 AM

I hit a nerve i guess, because all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner ) are punching far above your own 'weight'.
Pro Apollo forums accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education

And right after then go on to say, "accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education".
Now you did not explicitly claim that I said that but the implication is there as plain as the nose on your face that you insisted that I am the "leader of the bunch" claiming that sort of thing"!

I politely ask you to stop spouting lies in order to  try to save your own judgemental ass after accusing me wrongly !!!

I can't even find any "Pro Apollo forums" claiming that sort of thing, but I'll bow to your  superior knowledge and powers of deduction .

You only bow to your idols of scientism, so stop pretending as if you would ever show me any form of respect.... as your false accusations so clearly show in the last couple of posts.
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=407.0
Have fun !

But the posters here ( like rabinoz) are often the same ones who believe a muslim who could barely fly a Cessna could stear a Boeing into the WTC, because the guy practiced in a computer simulator a few times + autopilot on  the day.

And ?
I called your name in brackets, to highlight you are the epitome of unconditional support for 'official' point of views.
The example of 9/11 was an example of a flawed scientifically supported 'official' point of view...... of course i have no idea about you and 9/11 you ignorant person !
I put your name in brackets !!! But i named you because you defend any scientific and political leading point of view from the ancient Greeks and onwards LIKE NO OTHER HERE .
No one defends the mainstream position as much as you do since the dawn of these forums.
Yet another false accusation from your part towards me !!!!!!!! That's two  in a row !!!

Dutchy, you are a slimy debater that loves nothing better than character assassination in an to attempt to demolish you most effective opponents.
You're too ignorant to attack the actual technical information or actually present factual information that the Lunar missions did not occur, so you fall back on your attacks on the people involved and the claim that "it could have been faked" - both of which mean nothing.

Every photograph has been beat to death on both sides ,...... why start a rehash that i can easily copy paste from the internet ?
Of course i know my factual information, but know the answers from both sides and i don't want to go over those details all the time, but an occasional attempt.
You are a decetfull liar aren't you ?
If Neil Armstrong claims the sky is pitch black in cislunar space and Edgar Mitchell claims in the same position there are ten times brighter stars and ten times numerous stars in the most enlightening view (an example) you run for the hills and ignore each and everyone of my rock solid arguments i made in the various Apollo topics and cherry pick those things that you can copy paste to death (example the other topic...... you just did it again)!
Or the easy way out 'what has it got to do with your pet flatearth' ??
You cowardly avoided each and every remark i made you couldn't answer you coward !
And false accuser,........ a judgmental coward that accuses other forum members falsly and run for the hills when confronted with somehing outside of his own shallow box.

You have done it repeatedly with Neil de Grasse Tyson and numerous others with the slightest connection to NASA and now you even do it to ex-Moon Hoaxers that have seen the error in the ways.

NdGT sits with Joe Rogan and discuss the naughty government and then NdGT can promote his space trash, while Joe Rogan a former diehard Apollo hoaxer humbly undergoes the lecture of his master.
Neil that dropped a mike to proof gravity while eating a burger in front of late night show audience
Neil who's cousin took on rapper B.O.B. to counter rap flatearth.
Neil who claims the stars reveal themselves on the daylightside of the moon just as they would during the night on earth.
Neil who doesn't know and has to be corrected how many times the distance between earth and the sun and earth and the moon is !
Neil has no character at all , he has burried his own credibility long ago !

Just what initially got up your nose with NASA? Did you think that the destroyed you pet flat earth ideas? Tough, they didn't, it never was!

There is only one pet here and that is you my friend.
A sad shilly judgemental pet. Maybe not payed, but a shill for sure !!

Quote from: rabinoz on March 28, 2018, 02:05:06 PM

Is you memory that bad? You claimed that "all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner )"

Quote from: dutchy on March 27, 2018, 09:30:23 AM

I hit a nerve i guess, because all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner ) are punching far above your own 'weight'.
Pro Apollo forums accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education

And right after then go on to say, "accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education".
Now you did not explicitly claim that I said that but the implication is there as plain as the nose on your face that you insisted that I am the "leader of the bunch" claiming that sort of thing"!

I politely ask you to stop spouting lies in order to try to save your own judgemental ass after accusing me wrongly !!!

I am spouting no lies and I'll ignore your pathetic explanations!

You clearly associated rabinoz with things I never said and never even thought.

But, your arguments all boil down to simple character assassination of any opponent of you silly twisted ideas, and now you try to assassinate my character!

Anyone who dares to say or post things that you do not like, gets the dutchy treatment.
From all that I have seen they are all way ahead of you in stature, including Jarrah White and Joe Rogan at least they can argue issues and not denigrate people!

But, you have no real knowledge of the real issues involved, only guesswork, so all you can do is your usual argumentum ad hominem.
I guess if you have no real arguments against NASA and the  Lunar landings it's all you can do!

So you attack, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Neil Armstrong, Edgar Mitchell and everybody else that says anything that you do not like.
Then you totally ignore quite plausible explanations for their statements.
And you, who do not believe in any space-missions, come up with VABs arguments.
You simply cannot come to grips with the reality that with no space-missions there would be no measurements in the Van Allen Belts.

But, it's totally useless trying any logical debate with you.
Yes, I believe in "Science", but you have no idea what science really is - there is no such thing as "scientism"!
You claim not to believe in "Science" or  "scientism" yet you are quite prepared to reap all the rewards in all areas except to do with space (and a few other bits I guess).
You drive cars, fly in planes (based on numerous disciplines of science), use computers (based on quantum mechanics) and so many other things.
Many of these things, especially aircraft, depend on Laws of Physics that you have to deny like Newton's Laws of Motion and Gravitation.

And there is something that you might not like, but those very laws make a stationary flat earth quite untennable.
Bye bye, stay your usual ignorant self if you wish.

Quote from: dutchy on March 28, 2018, 04:07:37 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on March 28, 2018, 02:05:06 PM

Is you memory that bad? You claimed that "all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner )"

Quote from: dutchy on March 27, 2018, 09:30:23 AM

I hit a nerve i guess, because all of you ( rabinoz as frontrunner ) are punching far above your own 'weight'.
Pro Apollo forums accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education

And right after then go on to say, "accuse Jarrah White of being a dirty lying bitch without proper education".
Now you did not explicitly claim that I said that but the implication is there as plain as the nose on your face that you insisted that I am the "leader of the bunch" claiming that sort of thing"!

I politely ask you to stop spouting lies in order to try to save your own judgemental ass after accusing me wrongly !!!

I am spouting no lies and I'll ignore your pathetic explanations!

You clearly associated rabinoz with things I never said and never even thought.

In other words you refuse to accept my explanation, because it makes you a judgemental liar.

But, your arguments all boil down to simple character assassination of any opponent of you silly twisted ideas, and now you try to assassinate my character!

You do that to yourself by judging me twice, accusing me of faulty explanations and continue to babble about character assassination.

Anyone who dares to say or post things that you do not like, gets the dutchy treatment.

Great ! Could you enlighten me what treatment i possess ?
See ? I gave you 100% accurate examples of why i strongly believe NdGT is a louzy character.
You can't debunk any of those, but still pretend if i wrongly assassinate Neil's character, he himself polluted most with his ongoing crinchworthy and erronious performances for a broad audience.

From all that I have seen they are all way ahead of you in stature, including Jarrah White and Joe Rogan at least they can argue issues and not denigrate people!

What. ? You can do bettercthan that...... this is your weakest argument ever and you believe any of it....... boy o boy

But, you have no real knowledge of the real issues involved, only guesswork, so all you can do is your usual argumentum ad hominem.
I guess if you have no real arguments against NASA and the  Lunar landings it's all you can do!

So you attack, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Neil Armstrong, Edgar Mitchell and everybody else that says anything that you do not like.
Then you totally ignore quite plausible explanations for their statements.
And you, who do not believe in any space-missions, come up with VABs arguments.
You simply cannot come to grips with the reality that with no space-missions there would be no measurements in the Van Allen Belts.

Iow anyone who ignores the plausible and official explanations should shut up forever ... is that what you are saying ?
Or can i only doubt some things that you know your Apollo buddies have beat to death so you will be sure i look like a total fool when attacking those ?
Therefor i do attack the astronauts, provide the conclusions of linguistic experts and carefully examine their testimonies.
They are clearly in error and indicators they did not go to the moon.
Of course you like to discuss those photographs or VAB's so you can copy paste the answers given a thousend times by the pro Apollo brigade ..... sure you do !
But till date you have ignored sll i had to say and run for the hills when i presented 100% proof of lying scumbag astronauts who betrayed God and humanity !

But, it's totally useless trying any logical debate with you.
Yes, I believe in "Science", but you have no idea what science really is - there is no such thing as "scientism"!
You claim not to believe in "Science" or  "scientism" yet you are quite prepared to reap all the rewards in all areas except to do with space (and a few other bits I guess).
You drive cars, fly in planes (based on numerous disciplines of science), use computers (based on quantum mechanics) and so many other things.
Many of these things, especially aircraft, depend on Laws of Physics that you have to deny like Newton's Laws of Motion and Gravitation.

And there is something that you might not like, but those very laws make a stationary flat earth quite untennable.

That is why you flat earthers must do all you can to refute them, but you cannot!

Bye bye, stay your usual ignorant self if you wish.

You have only one broken record to play...... the official record.
Guess what ? It is all over the internet.
Nothing you ever wrote over here is more than two clicks away !

Why are you here, to make sure all flatearthers comply with the program ?
You liar, there is not one version of reality that you will reconsider.
You are here to preach yours, increase the copy paste data when heretics doubt your manure but never in my lifetime will you ever change a single conviction of yours.

<< Irrelevant rubbish deleted >>

Come back when you have some new information about,

Quote from: dutchy on March 28, 2018, 11:34:15 PM

<< Irrelevant rubbish deleted >>

Come back when you have some new information about,

"Apollo Mission Preparation and Crew Training" that does not involve character assassination.

Nothing personal my friend...... but if you stand by the evil powers of this world you will eventually burn yourself in the process.

I good moment to end our discussion for now, since you don't want to continue !

Bye bye