Space must be something other than what we are taught...

A vacuum is not a force or energy.  It is the absence of pressure.   When you drink through a straw, you are not pulling the liquid up through the straw, you are reducing the air pressure in it which allows the atmospheric pressure pushing down on the liquid in the cup to push it up through the straw.   In the same way cold is not energy, it's the absence of heat.  You do not "add cold" to something, you remove heat.   Dark is not energy, it's the absence of light.   When you turn off the light switch in a room you're not "adding dark" to the room.   You're removing light.  Rail tank cars collapse because they are subjected to almost 15 lbs per square inch of pressure on the outside of a tank that's designed to hold pressure within.

Quote from: ItsRoundIPromise on March 16, 2018, 08:38:27 AM

Quote from: totallackey on March 16, 2018, 06:00:07 AM

Quote from: ItsRoundIPromise on March 16, 2018, 05:58:18 AM

Quote from: totallackey on March 16, 2018, 02:38:47 AM

Rail cars subjected to vacuum collapse quite easily.

Do you need to have it explained why the weight of miles of atmosphere pushing on something with a vacuum inside is different than ounces of air pushing against the wall of a tire with a vacuum outside?

Or can you work that out on your own?

Can you define how 35 psi of air = "ounces?"

Or do you need help with that?

WTF is the matter with you?

Okay, you need help with this.  That's fine.

35 psi is 2.4 atm.  The volume of a typical car tire is 10 L.  The temperature of the air could be 290 K, although changing this isn't going to have a significant effect on the answer.  The Ideal Gas Constant is 0.082057 L atm mol-1K-1.

Number of moles = Pressure x Volume/ Ideal Gas Constant x Temperature or n=PV/RT.

Plug in the numbers and we get just over 1 mole in the tire.  A mole of dry air weighs approximately 29 grams, which is almost an ounce.

Even if you squeeze 2 moles in, that would be 2 ounces of air.

So again, why do you think a rail car with an internal vacuum getting crushed by miles of atmosphere above it is remotely comparable to a tire with an ounce or two of air holding it in with an external vacuum?  Do you see that they are different now?

And you need help understanding the following.

Please mount an empty tire on a rim.

The you fill the tire to the recommended pressure.

And then understand that it is still 35 psi that is important.

Without a countering 14.7 psi on the outside, that tire would explode.

You should also consider that 35 psi is gauge pressure, not absolute pressure. 

However, I don't know if you can say it'll explode.  The average car tire has a burst pressure of about 200 psi.  It actually makes sense if you consider that the dynamic loading can climb quite high.  Say hitting a pothole at 55 mph or the impulse load of a jump.

Mike

Quote from: rabinoz on March 16, 2018, 05:50:13 AM

The vacuum of space is just an almost infinite region with near enough to zero pressure, there is nothing magic or very mysterious about it!

The same old excuse...

Cannot reproduce what is claimed.

And neither have you or that video produced a car tyre exploding in a vacuum chamber.
Tires can certainly be exploded from excessive pressure difference between inside and outside:It is the excessive pressure difference that matters!

A pressurized container inside a vacuum will explode.
That was demonstrated by the video.

Sure, remember this:

For example a PET soda bottle can easily be collapsed by internal suction as in: plastic bottles and vacuum, marksmall82

But can withstand considerable internal pressure. See here: PET Bottle Burst Tests, Air Command Rockets The bottle often busts at over 175 psi.

I can't find and videos of full or pressurised containers in a vacuum, but here is a full Coke^© can at 100,000 ft, where the atmospheric pressure is about 0.16 psi.

Asking for a vacuum to work inside a vacuum?
WTF sense does that make?

Plenty, as in the small-scale example I showed:

So called "Vacuum Lifters" simply rely on the pressure difference between the atmospheric pressure and the lower pressure of the near vacuum.
A "Vacuum Lifter" will not work at all in a vacuum. This example is just small suction caps, but they work on the same principle.

Do Suction Cups Work In a Vacuum Chamber?
Will They Stick?

A "vacuum-lifter" can lift no more than area x external pressure, so your 30,000 lb lifter needs an area greater than 30,000/14.7 = 2041 sq ins or 14.2 sq ft.
Any industrial  "vacuum-lifter" will have an area much greater than this.
For example the Vacuum Lifter AVLP4-1000kg has 4 pads, each 520x320 mm.
So the total area is 0.67 m² or 1032 in², so area x 14.7 = 15,166 lb force, far more than the rated 2205 lb horizontal lift.

I am going to need to wait to look at the videos you claim demonstrate humans training in a vacuum.

You do that, then come back with some evidence of your claims.

And you need help understanding the following.

Please mount an empty tire on a rim.

The you fill the tire to the recommended pressure.

And then understand that it is still 35 psi that is important.

Without a countering 14.7 psi on the outside, that tire would explode.

Nope,  a car type would take much more than that to explode.  Typical car tyre will take about 200 psi before it blows out.

You don't want to be around when it lets go,  people have been killed by exploding car and truck tyres.

Quote from: markjo on March 15, 2018, 04:35:38 PM

Any chance that you can give us a summary so that we don't have to waste the better part of 2 hours watching a video full of obvious errors that you missed or ignored?

Don't bother,  it's about whether the tyres on Elon Musk's Tesla would have exploded in space.

Think they may have drilled a hole in the tire before launch?

How does 14.7 psi crush this tanker?



There is only a 14.7 pound difference at Max. It seems 14.7 psi is a very powerful force.

How does 14.7 psi crush this tanker?



There is only a 14.7 pound difference at Max. It seems 14.7 psi is a very powerful force.

14.7 pounds per square inch.   so a 36 inch by 36 inch area  = 1296 square inches  times 14.7 pounds per square inch =  19,051 pounds about 9 1/2 tonnes for every 3'x3' section.

Yes,  14.7 psi is enough to crush a rail car.

But, there's no weight in space.
How can there be 'pounds' of pressure?   

But, there's no weight in space.
How can there be 'pounds' of pressure?   

You might note that I wrote and lb force is an (outdated) imperial unit of force, still used in some backward countries like the USA and to a lesser extent the UK .

  Sometimes one must use the local lingo so those like hoppy and totallackey might possibly understand. 

But, there's no weight in space.
How can there be 'pounds' of pressure?   

LOL Cute little semantic trap for the unwary.   In the metric system we have kilogram mass,  and kilogram weight ( which is the force exerted by earths' gravity on a 1 kilogram mass)

In the imperial system the unit of force is the poundal,  which is the force exerted on a one pound mass by earths gravity.

So pound is not actually a unit of force, it's a unit of mass. 

Quote from: Rayzor on March 15, 2018, 06:25:09 PM

Quote from: markjo on March 15, 2018, 04:35:38 PM

Any chance that you can give us a summary so that we don't have to waste the better part of 2 hours watching a video full of obvious errors that you missed or ignored?

Don't bother,  it's about whether the tyres on Elon Musk's Tesla would have exploded in space.

Think they may have drilled a hole in the tire before launch?

Or clipped the valve stems?

Where's Totally Crabby? It's his thread, didn't he like the answers?

Quote from: totallackey on March 16, 2018, 09:12:42 AM

Quote from: ItsRoundIPromise on March 16, 2018, 09:08:55 AM

Quote from: totallackey on March 16, 2018, 08:26:13 AM

Effectively, what you want to state is this: A vacuum lifter exerts no force. It is the atmoplane of the Earth at 14.7 psi, pressing a 10 foot by 3 foot mechanism down hard enough in order for a 30000 lb pipe to be lifted against a force causing it to accelerate back toward the center of the Earth at 9.8 m/s

10 feet by 3 feet is 4320 square inches.  14.7 psi over 4320 square inches is over 60,000 lbs.  Where exactly do you see a problem?

So, I lay my naked body down on a pipe half the size with the atmoplane pushing me against it. At half the size of the vacuum lifter, I should be able to lift half the size of pipe at 15000 lbs.

GTFO!

Does your body create a vacuum between itself and the pipe?  That would be pretty amazing...

What really happens is the 10ft x 3ft lifter creates a seal with the pipe and then pumps all the air out.  The 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure is now pushing on the pipe in every direction but down.  The lateral pressures cancel each other leaving 14.7 psi of upward pressure.  That atmospheric pressure holds the pipe to the lifter. 

The atmosphere doesn't do any lifting, by the way, it just holds the object to the lifter, which can then be manipulated mechanically to move up sideways and back down.  The vacuum seal is just taking the place of pincers, a bucket, or some other mechanical means of grabbing the object that is to be lifted.  The atmospheric pressure doesn't lift the pipe, it just keeps it from falling.

All you just did is explain that vacuum exists only in a "sealed," fashion.

Nothing "sealed," about outer space...

Quote from: ItsRoundIPromise on March 16, 2018, 10:13:45 AM

Quote from: totallackey on March 16, 2018, 09:12:42 AM

Quote from: ItsRoundIPromise on March 16, 2018, 09:08:55 AM

Quote from: totallackey on March 16, 2018, 08:26:13 AM

Effectively, what you want to state is this: A vacuum lifter exerts no force. It is the atmoplane of the Earth at 14.7 psi, pressing a 10 foot by 3 foot mechanism down hard enough in order for a 30000 lb pipe to be lifted against a force causing it to accelerate back toward the center of the Earth at 9.8 m/s

10 feet by 3 feet is 4320 square inches.  14.7 psi over 4320 square inches is over 60,000 lbs.  Where exactly do you see a problem?

So, I lay my naked body down on a pipe half the size with the atmoplane pushing me against it. At half the size of the vacuum lifter, I should be able to lift half the size of pipe at 15000 lbs.

GTFO!

Does your body create a vacuum between itself and the pipe?  That would be pretty amazing...

What really happens is the 10ft x 3ft lifter creates a seal with the pipe and then pumps all the air out.  The 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure is now pushing on the pipe in every direction but down.  The lateral pressures cancel each other leaving 14.7 psi of upward pressure.  That atmospheric pressure holds the pipe to the lifter. 

The atmosphere doesn't do any lifting, by the way, it just holds the object to the lifter, which can then be manipulated mechanically to move up sideways and back down.  The vacuum seal is just taking the place of pincers, a bucket, or some other mechanical means of grabbing the object that is to be lifted.  The atmospheric pressure doesn't lift the pipe, it just keeps it from falling.

All you just did is explain that vacuum exists only in a "sealed," fashion.

Nothing "sealed," about outer space...

Outer space doesn't lift pipes either.  Make up your mind.  Do you want to discuss the vacuum of space or do you want to discuss vacuum pipe lifters?

Outer space doesn't lift pipes either.  Make up your mind.  Do you want to discuss the vacuum of space or do you want to discuss vacuum pipe lifters?

We are sharing thoughts on vacuums and their effects on objects.

If you do not like how I share my thoughts on these things you can GTFO the thread...

Quote from: markjo on March 19, 2018, 02:31:59 PM

Outer space doesn't lift pipes either.  Make up your mind.  Do you want to discuss the vacuum of space or do you want to discuss vacuum pipe lifters?

We are sharing thoughts on vacuums and their effects on objects.

If you do not like how I share my thoughts on these things you can GTFO the thread...

What do you think that the vacuum formed in a suction cup has to do with whether or not a tire will explode in the vacuum of deep space?

Quote from: markjo on March 19, 2018, 02:31:59 PM

Outer space doesn't lift pipes either.  Make up your mind.  Do you want to discuss the vacuum of space or do you want to discuss vacuum pipe lifters?

We are sharing thoughts on vacuums and their effects on objects.

If you do not like how I share my thoughts on these things you can GTFO the thread...

Well as we established a vacuum is nothing. So what is the effects of nothing on objects?

Quote from: totallackey on March 19, 2018, 02:35:54 PM

Quote from: markjo on March 19, 2018, 02:31:59 PM

Outer space doesn't lift pipes either.  Make up your mind.  Do you want to discuss the vacuum of space or do you want to discuss vacuum pipe lifters?

We are sharing thoughts on vacuums and their effects on objects.

If you do not like how I share my thoughts on these things you can GTFO the thread...

Well as we established a vacuum is nothing. So what is the effects of nothing on objects?

The effect of nothing being inside the tanker is obvious to most, except you.

The effect of nothing being inside the tanker is obvious to most, except you.

This is the affect of lots of stuff outside the tanker while nothing is in the tanker, if nothing was in the tanker and nothing was outside the tanker, it wouldn't implode, therefore it isn't the vacuum making it implode but the lots of stuff (air) outside the tanker

Quote from: sokarul on March 19, 2018, 04:16:21 PM

Quote from: totallackey on March 19, 2018, 02:35:54 PM

Quote from: markjo on March 19, 2018, 02:31:59 PM

Outer space doesn't lift pipes either.  Make up your mind.  Do you want to discuss the vacuum of space or do you want to discuss vacuum pipe lifters?

We are sharing thoughts on vacuums and their effects on objects.

If you do not like how I share my thoughts on these things you can GTFO the thread...

Well as we established a vacuum is nothing. So what is the effects of nothing on objects?

The effect of nothing being inside the tanker is obvious to most, except you.

Air pressure is air pressure. Air pressure is not space.

It does not take vacuum to implode a canister, just pressure differential.

Just like there is no cold, only less heat.

If space was really space; so it was put astronouts with their rockets/space ships in pieces in just seconds.

Not if you understood the properties of space and designed your spaceship and spacesuit accordingly.

Not if you understood the properties of space and designed your spaceship and spacesuit accordingly.

The power of Vacuum  goes to infinitive when you entered a completely gap space for temporary. It is definitely irresistable, whatever you designe. The spaceship and astronouts could diffuse to the space in miliseconds.

Quote from: markjo on April 09, 2018, 06:14:35 AM

Not if you understood the properties of space and designed your spaceship and spacesuit accordingly.

The power of Vacuum  goes to infinitive when you entered a completely gap space for temporary. It is definitely irresistable, whatever you designe. The spaceship and astronouts could diffuse to the space in miliseconds.

A vacuum is nothing.  How can nothing have power?

Quote from: brotherhood of the dome on April 09, 2018, 06:28:35 AM

Quote from: markjo on April 09, 2018, 06:14:35 AM

Not if you understood the properties of space and designed your spaceship and spacesuit accordingly.

The power of Vacuum  goes to infinitive when you entered a completely gap space for temporary. It is definitely irresistable, whatever you designe. The spaceship and astronouts could diffuse to the space in miliseconds.

A vacuum is nothing.  How can nothing have power?

Vacuum has power. But has the power of zero. Ahahah. Power / zero = infinitive. It has power, it has infinitive power but negative. Destroys everything.

Quote from: markjo on April 09, 2018, 09:19:49 AM

Quote from: brotherhood of the dome on April 09, 2018, 06:28:35 AM

Quote from: markjo on April 09, 2018, 06:14:35 AM

Not if you understood the properties of space and designed your spaceship and spacesuit accordingly.

The power of Vacuum  goes to infinitive when you entered a completely gap space for temporary. It is definitely irresistable, whatever you designe. The spaceship and astronouts could diffuse to the space in miliseconds.

A vacuum is nothing.  How can nothing have power?

Vacuum has power. But has the power of zero. Ahahah. Power / zero = infinitive. It has power, it has infinitive power but negative. Destroys everything.

Wrong.  Anything divided by zero is undefined.

Also, that isn't how power works.

Vacuum has power. But has the power of zero. Ahahah. Power / zero = infinitive. It has power, it has infinitive power but negative. Destroys everything.

I suggest you finish high school physics before hurting your brain anymore