Poll

If the Earth is flat, and space is curved, then..?

if you walk/fly in a straight line in any direction do you emerge into an alternate universe?
0 (0%)
we live in a universe of infinite dimension.
0 (0%)
are all planets just endless multidimensional planes at random positions in space?
1 (20%)
how many suns are there?
2 (40%)
can we dispense with the ice wall idea?
2 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 3

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The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved

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molten_physics

  • 6
The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« on: February 27, 2018, 03:26:58 PM »
My premise is this. Earth is flat and space is curved. The flat dimensions of the Earth are curved by space back onto themselves in an endless loop. This 'curviness' of space is determined by the earths mass. There need be no contradiction.

Please take part in my poll.


 :P
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smokified

  • 386
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 03:29:31 PM »
Quote from: molten_physics on February 27, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
My premise is this. Earth is flat and space is curved. The flat dimensions of the Earth are curved by space back onto themselves in an endless loop. This 'curviness' of space is determined by the earths mass. There need be no contradiction.

Please take part in my poll.


 :P

What the hell are you talking about?  Have you ever been outside once in your life?
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molten_physics

  • 6
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 03:33:47 PM »
Quote from: smokified on February 27, 2018, 03:29:31 PM
Quote from: molten_physics on February 27, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
My premise is this. Earth is flat and space is curved. The flat dimensions of the Earth are curved by space back onto themselves in an endless loop. This 'curviness' of space is determined by the earths mass. There need be no contradiction.

Please take part in my poll.


 :P

What the hell are you talking about?  Have you ever been outside once in your life?

I've been outside, I reckon, a few more times than yourself.
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Macarios

  • 2093
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 03:43:34 PM »
Quote from: molten_physics on February 27, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
My premise is this. Earth is flat and space is curved. The flat dimensions of the Earth are curved by space back onto themselves in an endless loop. This 'curviness' of space is determined by the earths mass. There need be no contradiction.

Please take part in my poll.


 :P

That is premise John Davis tried to promote long time ago, using Moebius' transformations.

I think he is still trying to make it work.

General Realtivity would calculate Earth's shrink by spacetime curviness for about 4 cm.
Not even remotely enough to account for your "roles exchange".

EDIT: I would participate in your poll, but the option "None of the above" wasn't included.
Option "How many suns are there" is ambigous, because every star is a sun, but in Solar system there's only one Sun.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 02:36:24 AM by Macarios »
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mike247

  • 193
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 04:50:26 PM »
Quote from: molten_physics on February 27, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
My premise is this. Earth is flat and space is curved. The flat dimensions of the Earth are curved by space back onto themselves in an endless loop. This 'curviness' of space is determined by the earths mass. There need be no contradiction.

Please take part in my poll.


 :P

This is a cool theory, you should go out and try to disprove it then come back and present your results
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rabinoz

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Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2018, 05:06:34 PM »
Quote from: molten_physics on February 27, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
My premise is this. Earth is flat and space is curved.
Does your "premise" have any physical or theoretical justification?

Quote from: molten_physics
The flat dimensions of the Earth are curved by space back onto themselves in an endless loop. This 'curviness' of space is determined by the earths mass.
;) So sorry to put a dampener on you premise with a little science, ;) but:
Einstein's GR does say that mass curves spacetime, not just space.
Some analysis (too hard for me)
shows that the earth's mass curves the space-like components of spacetime near earth by about  ;D ;D 1 part in 2.9 x 109 ;D ;D - not even measurable, let alone enough to enough to make flat earth look like a ball.

Quote from: molten_physics
There need be no contradiction.
Please take part in my poll.  :P
That seems to be closely related to John Davis's Non-Euclidean Earth Hypothesis that gets promoted by the closet flat earther, Jane, as the panacea for all flat earth's ills.

John Davis's quite erroneously claims that EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY PROVES THE EARTH IS FLAT, May 23, 2016 JohnDavis..
I wrote a lot more on that in So the equivalence priniciple doesn't hold for extended spacetime « Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 10:57:28 AM »

;) But, I guess that it's no more ridiculous than most FE ideas, so carry on. ;)
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molten_physics

  • 6
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 01:53:42 AM »
To me it's just a matter of perspective.

As the earth is flat, as can be demonstrated by gravity always pointing 'down' no matter where you are on the planet, and as you are able to circumnavigate the globe back to the same point again starting from any point (as planes and satellites prove on a consistent basis), then space must be curved around the planet.

Basically I am saying the ice wall as a perimeter to the planet is not a requirement for the earth to be flat.

You can have a flat earth, and it can still be ball shaped, cos it's just a matter of local perspective in a multi-dimensional universe
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blidge

  • 123
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 02:03:19 AM »
Quote from: molten_physics on February 28, 2018, 01:53:42 AM
To me it's just a matter of perspective.

As the earth is flat, as can be demonstrated by gravity always pointing 'down' no matter where you are on the planet, and as you are able to circumnavigate the globe back to the same point again starting from any point (as planes and satellites prove on a consistent basis), then space must be curved around the planet.

Basically I am saying the ice wall as a perimeter to the planet is not a requirement for the earth to be flat.

You can have a flat earth, and it can still be ball shaped, cos it's just a matter of local perspective in a multi-dimensional universe

Except that gravity wouldn't always point in the same direction if the Earth was flat. Therefore you are wrong.
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molten_physics

  • 6
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2018, 07:40:36 AM »
Quote from: blidge on February 28, 2018, 02:03:19 AM
Except that gravity wouldn't always point in the same direction if the Earth was flat. Therefore you are wrong.

If you are at any point upon (or above) this flat earth, then gravity is usually pointing downwards.
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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
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Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 08:18:11 AM »
Quote from: molten_physics on March 01, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
Quote from: blidge on February 28, 2018, 02:03:19 AM
Except that gravity wouldn't always point in the same direction if the Earth was flat. Therefore you are wrong.

If you are at any point upon (or above) this flat earth, then gravity is usually pointing downwards.
When you are at any point upon or above a sufficiently massive object (like the earth), gravity always acts towards the center of mass of that object.
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Macarios

  • 2093
Re: The Earth is Flat, Space is Curved
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2018, 10:36:50 AM »
Quote from: molten_physics on March 01, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
Quote from: blidge on February 28, 2018, 02:03:19 AM
Except that gravity wouldn't always point in the same direction if the Earth was flat. Therefore you are wrong.

If you are at any point upon (or above) this flat earth, then gravity is usually pointing downwards.

Gravity doesn't "follow" the "down" direction.
Gravity DEFINES where is "down".
Down is where things fall.
Down is where we put our legs to counter our weight.
And on Earth it is towards the center of the planet.

What you suggest is what people already try to do when draw maps.
In that process they always have problems, because when you unfold spherical surface to scale it down to flat paper you lose linearity.
Try to cut open ordinary children's plastic ball from Walmart and spread it flat on nearest table.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 10:41:31 AM by Macarios »
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I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.
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