VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2018, 07:18:26 AM »
...

No, you have misunderstood. How many actual experiments have you performed in pursuit of this superior knowledge?

Give me 0,001 % of NASA's daily budget which is about 60 000 $ and i will perform for you all experiments that you want!

Until then, you can watch this very simple, yet very compelling experiment which i have done at home :

--- Very simple and irrefutable experiment :

--- MYTH OF INERTIA VS GYROCOMPASS :
--- Inertial frame of reference 1 :

How about this important experimental proof against earth's rotation :

THE EARTH IS AT REST - DIRECTIONAL GYRO SLAM DUNK :

--- ZIGZAG ARGUMENT IS THE WINNER :
--- ZIGZAG VIDEO - DIRECTIONAL GYRO :

NEW PROBLEMS WITH POSTING IMPORTANT POSTS BELOW THIS VIDEO :
 How can NASA recover from this, *EVER*??? - part 4 :

*flat earthers get No vag* 9 hours ago
That s exactly what I would expect to see due to bulky spacesuits and 50lbs on their backs.?
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*odiupicku* replies :
Young himself and his crewmate Charlie Duke engaged in a high-jump contest at the end Apollo 16's third moonwalk; Duke estimated that Young had jumped “about four feet [120 centimeters]”. Duke made an equally high jump, but fell backwards onto his backpack. In his book Moonwalker, he reported that it was “the only time in our whole lunar stay that I had a real moment of panic and thought I had killed myself. The suit and backpack weren't designed to support a four-foot fall. Had the backpack broken or the suit split open, I would have lost my air. A rapid decompression, or as one friend calls it, a high-altitude hiss-out, and I would have been dead instantly. Fortunately, everything held together.” Neil Armstrong reported that he jumped up to the third rung of Apollo 11's LM ladder, which was “easily five or six feet [150-180 centimeters] above the ground”. His leaps are visible in the recordings of the TV transmission of his moonwalk. However, Armstrong refrained from further experimentation, because he noted that “there was a tendency to tip over backward on a high jump. One time I came close to falling and decided that was enough of that.”* * Apollo 11 Technical Crew Debriefing, 31 July 1969, Section 10, pages 61 and 28. -- *ROFLMAO* --
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*flat earthers get No vag* 1 minute ago
odiupicku why didn't you show these jumps?
LUNAR OLYMPICS :
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*odiupicku* replies :
I wasn't aware of this footage up until now, so many thanks for providing us with that link. Well, what i can say after first watching of this fraudulent piece of garbage is this : these guys don't bend their knees more than it is the case in an example which is shown in my video...So, how come there is such a great discrepancy in the height of their jumps between the footage shown in my video and this one provided by you??? On the other hand, isn't that highly suspicious that they decided to perform SO IMPORTANT experiment (their obviously fraudulent jumps) within the context of such a ridiculous scenery (hiding their bodies and their dazzling acrobatics behind LRV)???
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We leave you much that is undone. There are great ideas undiscovered, breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth’s protective layers. There are places to go beyond belief.?
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blidge

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2018, 07:44:49 AM »
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Again but kinda different, for your personal benefit and prior to this thread what experiments did you perform that consequently confirmed your current beliefs?

I'm not interested in YouTube videos or copy/paste because you would have no reason to believe mine just as I have no reason to believe yours.

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2018, 08:26:13 AM »
...

Again but kinda different, for your personal benefit and prior to this thread what experiments did you perform that consequently confirmed your current beliefs?

I'm not interested in YouTube videos or copy/paste because you would have no reason to believe mine just as I have no reason to believe yours.

I have offered to you my own videos in which i had presented my arguments and experiments which validity you are free to debunk if you can. That is exactly what i have done in a hole bunch of my other (debunking) videos (i have managed to successfully debunk whole series of NASA's fraudulent "Moon" (and other) videos), however had i been lazy and funny boy like you are i could have easily and idly sat in my soft chair and carelessly proclaimed : "I am not interested in NASA's YouTube videos, and although i have nothing concrete to offer against the trueness of their (NASA's) videos, i am still somehow sure that they are all fake."

Now, i have to ask you the very same question that you have put forward to me :
 For your personal benefit and prior to this thread what experiments did you perform that consequently confirmed your current beliefs?

Care to answer it...

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2018, 08:27:53 AM »
*1.* No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.

This is not correct. Effects of earth's rotation and orbital motion are commonly seen and well understood.

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The toil of thousands of exasperated researchers, in the extremely varied experiments of Arago, De Coudre's induction, Fizeau, Fresnell drag, Hoek, Jaseja's lasers, Jenkins, Klinkerfuess, Michelson-Morley interferometry, Lord Rayleigh's polarimetry, Troughton-Noble torque, and the famous 'Airy's Failure' experiment, all conclusively failed to show any rotational or translational movement for the earth, whatsoever.

Those experiments were looking for the wrong thing, such as motion with respect to a luminiferous aether which doesn't exist, or were incorrectly designed, like Airy's.

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*A)* There are too many proofs that the earth is at rest, but i would like to show you one very primitive example which corroborates this already 100 % proven fact :

There are no proofs that the earth is at rest. None. To be fair, there are also no proofs that the earth is in motion, either, since science cannot and does not produce proof. On the other hand, there is plenty of well tested evidence that the earth is both rotating and moving in orbit around the sun. All "evidence" that the earth is stationary is, at the very best, inconclusive and, all too often, fraudulent. What you cite is an excellent example of evidence that is inconclusive, even though it's most likely entirely made up:

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>>>A strong cast-iron cannon was placed with the muzzle upwards. The barrel was carefully tested with a plumb line, so that its true vertical direction was secured; and the breech of the gun was firmly embedded in sand up to the touch-hole ... In thirty seconds the ball fell back to the earth, from B to C; the point of contact, C, was only 8 inches from the gun, A. This experiment has been many times tried, and several times the ball fell back upon the mouth of the cannon; but the greatest deviation was less than 2 feet, and the average time of absence was 28 seconds; from which it is concluded that the earth on which the gun was placed did not move from its position during the 28 seconds the ball was in the atmosphere. Had there been motion in the direction from west to east, and at the rate of 600 miles per hour (the supposed velocity in the latitude of England) ... we have only to multiply the time by the supposed velocity of the earth, and we find that instead of the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun, it should have fallen behind it a distance of 8400 feet, or more than a mile and a half! Such a result is utterly destructive of the idea of the earth's possible rotation.<<<

IMPORTANT CORRECTION : Mr Rowbotham calculated wrong : the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun should have fallen behind it more than 4.6 miles (not "more than a mile and a half")!!!

You're right about Mr. Rowbotham's calculation being literally miles off. His premise is, quite simply, incorrect. This is not unusual at all. He was a fraud.

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*B)* The exact formula for the lateral deflection of a vertically fired projectile:

http://image.ibb.co/hHrJtm/formula3a.jpg

...

d = 5.2 ft (far larger than the recorded 8 inches)

Assuming for the moment that your calculation is correct, how much deviation from a truly vertical shot would it take to produce an error of 5 feet?

If the projectile is in flight for 28 seconds, then, its maximum height is given by

s = 1/2 at2

s is the distance (height, in this case), a is the acceleration of gravity (32 ft/sec2), and t is time from firing to maximum height (half of 28 seconds)

s = 32 ft/sec2 (14 sec)2 / 2
 = 32 ft/sec2 (196 sec2) / 2
 = 3,136 ft.

The total trajectory length is twice that, since it has to fall the same distance, or 6,272 ft total. In order for the cannonball to "miss" by 5 feet after traveling 6,000 feet, the aim would have to be off by

a = arctan(5/6000)
 = arctan(0.00083)
 = 0.048° = 2.9 minutes of arc.

If the length of the cannon bore was 6 feet (72 inches), a misalignment of as little as 0.06" (72" * 0.00083) would fully account for this error, assuming everything else was perfect. How accurate do you believe his plumb line was? Did he compare it with the bore, or the outside of the cannon? If against the bore, how? How accurate do you believe these smooth bore cannons were?

We're not even considering real-world effects like aerodynamics of non-rifled projectiles, or even wind, both of which are significant.

All of these ambiguities make the results inconclusive at best.

The much bigger question is, of course, "how do we know the described experiment was ever conducted at all?" Is there any independent verification that the entire scenario wasn't completely made up?

Quote
Not only that.

Within HC theory (rotating earth), when flying or rolling (black bird) 1000 km/h (which is roughly the alleged speed of the earth at 52 degrees N) WESTBOUND, that is to say : in counter direction of earth's rotation, we counteract (ENTIRELY - 100 % - cancel out) initial inertia (impetus), so that - if we carried out the same kind of an experiment (shooting the ball upwards) from the cannon which is attached to the moving frame of 1000 km/h fast object - we should expect the ball to come down much closer to the muzzle of the gun than in the case when the ball was discharged from a non-moving object (local frame of reference).

Nope.

I see you still haven'd tried the very simple and cheap, yet conclusive experiment proposed here. All it will take is a little time (which you appear to have too much of), a common object like a small ball, book, or similar, and train fare (no need for as much as a microscopic portion of NASA's budget. We're talking about perhaps a few Euros, which no one is going to give you, anyway). Or try something like what was done here if you have access to an automobile.

Please do that before going on and on about a topic you've clearly misunderstood.

[Edit] Corrected punctuation error.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 08:33:28 AM by Alpha2Omega »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2018, 08:59:11 AM »

*B)* The exact formula for the lateral deflection of a vertically fired projectile:

http://image.ibb.co/hHrJtm/formula3a.jpg

...

d = 5.2 ft (far larger than the recorded 8 inches)


Assuming for the moment that your calculation is correct, how much deviation from a truly vertical shot would it take to produce an error of 5 feet?

If the projectile is in flight for 28 seconds, then, its maximum height is given by

s = 1/2 at2

s is the distance (height, in this case), a is the acceleration of gravity (32 ft/sec2), and t is time from firing to maximum height (half of 28 seconds)

s = 32 ft/sec2 (14 sec)2 / 2
 = 32 ft/sec2 (196 sec2) / 2
 = 3,136 ft.

The total trajectory length is twice that, since it has to fall the same distance, or 6,272 ft total. In order for the cannonball to "miss" by 5 feet after traveling 6,000 feet, the aim would have to be off by

a = arctan(5/6000)
 = arctan(0.00083)
 = 0.048° = 2.9 minutes of arc.

If the length of the cannon bore was 6 feet (72 inches), a misalignment of as little as 0.06" (72" * 0.00083) would fully account for this error, assuming everything else was perfect. How accurate do you believe his plumb line was? Did he compare it with the bore, or the outside of the cannon? If against the bore, how? How accurate do you believe these smooth bore cannons were?

We're not even considering real-world effects like aerodynamics of non-rifled projectiles, or even wind, both of which are significant.

All of these ambiguities make the results inconclusive at best.

The much bigger question is, of course, "how do we know the described experiment was ever conducted at all?" Is there any independent verification that the entire scenario wasn't completely made up?

>>>A strong cast-iron cannon was placed with the muzzle upwards. The barrel was carefully tested with a plumb line, so that its true vertical direction was secured; and the breech of the gun was firmly embedded in sand up to the touch-hole, against which a piece of slow match was placed. The cannon had been loaded with powder and ball, previous to its position being secured. At a given moment the slow match at D was fired, and the operator retired to a shed. The explosion took place, and the ball was discharged in the direction A, B. In thirty seconds the ball fell back to the earth, from B to C; the point of contact, C, was only 8 inches from the gun, A. This experiment has been many times tried, and several times the ball fell back upon the mouth of the cannon; but the greatest deviation was less than 2 feet, and the average time of absence was 28 seconds; from which it is concluded that the earth on which the gun was placed did not move from its position during the 28 seconds the ball was in the atmosphere. Had there been motion in the direction from west to east, and at the rate of 600 miles per hour (the supposed velocity in the latitude of England), the result would have been as shown in fig. 49. The ball, thrown by the powder in the direction A, C, and acted on at the same moment by the earth's motion in the direction A, B, would take the direction A, D; meanwhile the earth and the cannon would have reached the position B, opposite to D. On the ball beginning to descend, and during the time of its descent, the gun would have passed on to the position S, and the ball would have dropped at B, a consider-able distance behind the point S. As the average time of the ball's absence in the atmosphere was 28 seconds--14 going upwards, and 14 in falling--we have only to multiply the time by the supposed velocity of the earth, and we find that instead of the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun, it should have fallen behind it a distance of 8400 feet, or more than a mile and a half! Such a result is utterly destructive of the idea of the earth's possible rotation.<<<

Had there been any significant amount of misalignment (from the true vertical position) of the cannon barrel, then how could have bullets fallen back upon the mouth of the cannon even once, let alone several times???

Not only that.

Within HC theory (rotating earth), when flying or rolling (black bird) 1000 km/h (which is roughly the alleged speed of the earth at 52 degrees N) WESTBOUND, that is to say : in counter direction of earth's rotation, we counteract (ENTIRELY - 100 % - cancel out) initial inertia (impetus), so that - if we carried out the same kind of an experiment (shooting the ball upwards) from the cannon which is attached to the moving frame of 1000 km/h fast object - we should expect the ball to come down much closer to the muzzle of the gun than in the case when the ball was discharged from a non-moving object (local frame of reference).
Nope.

Why not?
When moving in counter direction of earth's alleged rotation we are simulating that we are at higher latitude (depends on the speed of our moving frame), and vice versa, when we are moving in the same direction of earth's alleged rotation we are simulating that we are at lower latitude. So, with the same set up, and at the same place we can carry out this very important (and very cheep) experiment so that we can compare deviations regarding the amount of lateral displacement of a bullets fired from the moving (in both directions (EAST & WEST) cannon, and thus additionally eliminate your theoretical objections with respect to the possible misalignment (in relation to the true vertical position) of the cannon barrel...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 09:08:38 AM by cikljamas »
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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2018, 09:16:42 AM »
How can NASA recover from this, *EVER*??? - part 3 :

Interviewer: " You said: "How long must it take before I cease to be known as a spaceman" ....Why did you make that comment" ?

Armstrong: "..I guess we all want to be recognized not for one piece of fireworks"

Interviewer: "You seem uncomfortable with your celebrity.. that you'd rather not have all this attention"

Armstrong: "no, I just don't deserve it"
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 09:18:44 AM by cikljamas »
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blidge

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2018, 09:40:06 AM »
...

Again but kinda different, for your personal benefit and prior to this thread what experiments did you perform that consequently confirmed your current beliefs?

I'm not interested in YouTube videos or copy/paste because you would have no reason to believe mine just as I have no reason to believe yours.

I have offered to you my own videos in which i had presented my arguments and experiments which validity you are free to debunk if you can. That is exactly what i have done in a hole bunch of my other (debunking) videos (i have managed to successfully debunk whole series of NASA's fraudulent "Moon" (and other) videos), however had i been lazy and funny boy like you are i could have easily and idly sat in my soft chair and carelessly proclaimed : "I am not interested in NASA's YouTube videos, and although i have nothing concrete to offer against the trueness of their (NASA's) videos, i am still somehow sure that they are all fake."

Now, i have to ask you the very same question that you have put forward to me :
 For your personal benefit and prior to this thread what experiments did you perform that consequently confirmed your current beliefs?

Care to answer it...

Your videos just appear to be content compiled from other sources. What justification do you have that the content you are using is true? What steps did you perform to put them to the test?

Not that it is relevant, but virtually every experiment I would have carried out throughout my formal education has directly led to my current beliefs.That would be 8 years worth and ending at MSc level. Probably around 100. And totally not relevant.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2018, 11:28:29 AM »
...
If the length of the cannon bore was 6 feet (72 inches), a misalignment of as little as 0.06" (72" * 0.00083) would fully account for this error, assuming everything else was perfect. How accurate do you believe his plumb line was? Did he compare it with the bore, or the outside of the cannon? If against the bore, how? How accurate do you believe these smooth bore cannons were?

We're not even considering real-world effects like aerodynamics of non-rifled projectiles, or even wind, both of which are significant.

All of these ambiguities make the results inconclusive at best.

The much bigger question is, of course, "how do we know the described experiment was ever conducted at all?" Is there any independent verification that the entire scenario wasn't completely made up?

>>>A strong cast-iron cannon was placed with the muzzle upwards. The barrel was carefully tested with a plumb line, so that its true vertical direction was secured; and the breech of the gun was firmly embedded in sand up to the touch-hole, against which a piece of slow match was placed.

Yeah... that part you highlighted in red. How much error was in "true vertical". No measurement is going to be perfect, and he doesn't specify any error bounds. So we don't know. As shown, it wouldn't take much error to completely invalidate the experiment for this reason alone, and there are others.

When looking for information about cannon dimensions, I came across this:

By the era of the Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars the majority of naval cannon were made of iron simply because it was far cheaper, and with the huge number of cannon needed quantity vs. quality became the main issue. As has been mentioned bronze cannon were generally superior, lighter and were easier to cast to tight tolerances, and thus more accurate.

Post #4 in this discussion, in case that link doesn't work.

Mr. Rowbotham describes the material that the cannon is made of, but no other meaningful details, like bore size, caliber, or other dimensions like total length from front to rear of the cannon and length from touch-hole to rear. All we have is this vague description of a long (most likely several feet long), slender, heavy, implement, pointing more or less vertically, steadied by what? A few inches of it, at most, buried in sand? Even if it didn't simply topple over, what is that breech going to do as soon as the ball starts moving? It's going to recoil, of course, packing the sand below it even further, unevenly, unless it was perfectly uniform in all respects to start with, so whatever aim there was will be thrown off to at least some degree.   Give us a break!

And... he's describing a type of cannon with sub-par accuracy to start with! Even if the bore could be made perfectly vertical, and held perfectly vertical during firing, there is no guarantee the ball would depart the muzzle vertically, anyway; in fact, it's practically guaranteed not to.

Quote
Had there been any significant amount of misalignment (from the true vertical position) of the cannon barrel, then how could have bullets fallen back upon the mouth of the cannon even once, let alone several times???

How can you be sure any of them did? Have you found any confirmation at all that this wasn't simply made up? Until there is independent evidence showing there is more to this than just an anecdote published by a charlatan who made his living defrauding the uneducated and easily-deceived, it's all just poppycock.

Quote
Not only that.

Within HC theory (rotating earth), when flying or rolling (black bird) 1000 km/h (which is roughly the alleged speed of the earth at 52 degrees N) WESTBOUND, that is to say : in counter direction of earth's rotation, we counteract (ENTIRELY - 100 % - cancel out) initial inertia (impetus), so that - if we carried out the same kind of an experiment (shooting the ball upwards) from the cannon which is attached to the moving frame of 1000 km/h fast object - we should expect the ball to come down much closer to the muzzle of the gun than in the case when the ball was discharged from a non-moving object (local frame of reference).
Nope.

Why not?

Already explained. Do this experiment. No exotic aircraft or cannons needed.

Quote
<blah, blah, blah> ... we can carry out this very important (and very cheep) experiment so that we can compare deviations regarding the amount of lateral displacement of a bullets fired from the moving (in both directions (EAST & WEST) cannon, and thus additionally eliminate your theoretical objections with respect to the possible misalignment (in relation to the true vertical position) of the cannon barrel...

Just how cheap do you think it would be to obtain a 19th-century (or earlier) cannon (and powder, and ball), transport it (those suckers are heavy!) to a suitable place to safely conduct this experiment?

Buy a train ticket and drop a book while the train is stopped, and again while the train is in motion with constant velocity. Compare where the book lands compared to the drop point in the two cases. The end.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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JackBlack

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2018, 01:03:19 PM »
It could be sensible (to a certain degree) to say that with respect to the very edge of the universe, but if we talk about everything else (all the rest of the universe) which is not the very edge of the universe then your objection is utter stupidity, because everything that is farther away from the edge of the universe (a.k.a. closer to the very center of the universe) must move through space of the very universe. On the other hand (dealing with an object which is situated at the very edge of the universe), you have to answer to this question :
Nope, it is your objection which is stupidity.
Space expands everywhere.
It isn't simply expanding into space outside the universe. It is all space expanding.

Again, comparing it to the analogy of the surface of a balloon (just focusing on the surface which corresponds to our 3D space).
If it expands, do the objects need to travel around the surface of the balloon?
NO!
The surface itself simply expands increasing the distance between all objects.

So no, the expansion does not require objects to move through space. It allows the space itself to expand which results in an increased distance between the objects.

1. What is the Universe Expanding Into?

This is the answer that you can get from those lunatics who believe in heliocentric theory and everything that comes with this ultimate insult to a human common sense :
Yes, you do seem to like insulting human rational thought and common sense don't you?

In the 2D space which is the surface of the balloon, what is the surface of the balloon expanding into?

There is no difference between average heliocentrist and average flat-earther, both of them are hardcore religious fanatics.
No, there is a massive difference.
The average flat-Earther has either been conned into delusional crap, or is paranoid and delusional.
They don't simply claim that neither model is supported. Instead they assert that Earth is flat and that is what the evidence shows, yet they are unable to provide any evidence.

The average heliocentrist doesn't exist, as the universe is not heliocentric.
If you meant a heliocentric solar system which itself moves through space, then they are quite different to the FEers.
They have evidence on their side, and a significant portion can at least explain some of it.

Had there been any way to prove that the Earth is submitted to any kind of motion, scientists would have supplied us with these proofs up until now, and by doing this they would have provided immortal fame for themselves.
You mean like Coriolis, Foucault and Sagnac?
These have 2 effects and a pendulum named after them.
All of which prove Earth is rotating.

You have been supplied with theses proofs and you simply ignore them.

You also have Galileo that proved linear/inertial motion is impossible to detect except as relative motion, with you being unable to tell which is in motion and which is stationary.

You then have MM and Sagnac and Airy and a few others which improved upon this and showed that you can't even use light and the aether to find an absolute reference frame which motion can be measured against.

So good job finishing your discussion with a blatant lie.

Goodbye and good luck!
If you want to say goodbye, then leave.

No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.
Stop bringing your old refuted garbage (like your ignorance and dishonest regarding inertia) into new threads.

Especially as you blatantly contradict yourself.

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2018, 02:45:26 PM »
Most scientists know about the Michelson-Morely experiment – that failed to detect any movement of the earth round the sun. This had to be overcome so the Fitzgerald-Lorentz shortening of the apparatus was proposed, and eventually the paradoxical Relativity Theory was invented by Einstein to overcome this problem. However, there are three other experiments that have been deliberately ignored by universities because they support geocentricity.

(a) The Michelson-Gale experiment (Reference – Astrophysical Journal 1925 v 61 pp 140-5) – This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth’s rotation (or the aether’s rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.

(b) “Airey’s failure” (Reference – Proc. Roy. Soc. London v 20 p 35) – Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth’s “speed around the sun”. Airey filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.

(c) The Sagnac experiment (Reference – Comptes Rendus 1913 v157 p 708-710 and 1410-3) – Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein’s theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.

All these experiments are never taught at universities, so consequently, scientists, including most
Christian creationists, are ignorant of this evidence for geocentricity.

*Extended Michelson-Morley Interferometer Experiment*

The original experiment of Michelson and Morley was performed in 1887 in order to confirm the theory that says earth exists in an unseen sea of pre-matter called the aether, and that the daily rotation of the earth around itself and the constant travel of the earth around Sol, our sun, would expose any instrument on the earth's surface to what was called an "aether wind". The concept is that the aether, conceived as the medium that allows light waves to travel from one point in the cosmos to another, would influence the measurement of the length of a path of light, depending on whether the path is in line with the expected "wind" or is oriented perpendicular to it.

The experiment did not find the expected result but rather than looking for a reason the aether wind might not be measurable in this way, the idea of there being an aether in the first place was questioned. Einstein then declared that an aether was "not necessary", and since Einstein's theories gained widespread acceptance, any further investigation into the subject of the aether was relegated to the fringes of science.

Many attempts have been made to explain why the physical configuration of the measuring apparatus of Michelson and Morley was improper for showing the aether wind, but no one has repeated the experiment in a different setting, such as in a satellite orbiting the earth.

Now recently Martin Grusenick, an experimenter in Germany, has repeated the Michelson-Morley interferometer experiment with a rather simple laser set-up and has found - to no great surprise - that rotating his apparatus horizontally, no shifts in the interference fringes are observed. Grusenick however had another idea. He modified his apparatus to make it possible to rotate in a vertical plane ... documenting his results in a video that was uploaded on YouTube:



Over the last decade, a number of anomalous cosmological observations have emerged which do not make sense according to the Copernican Principle, the latest being the Planck satellite results of March 2013.  While the science behind the findings is complex, to put it simply, the Copernican Principle requires that any variation in the radiation from the Cosmic Microwave Background (thermal radiation assumed to be left over from the ‘Big Bang’) be more or less randomly distributed throughout the universe.  However, the results of three separate missions, starting with the WMAP satellite in 2001, has shown anomalies in the background radiation which are aligned directly with the plane of our solar system and the equator of the Earth. This never-before-seen alignment of the Earth results in an axis through the universe, which scientists have dubbed the ‘Axis of Evil’, owing to the shocking implications for current models of the cosmos.

*Laurence Krauss,* American theoretical physicist and cosmologist, commented in 2005:

    "When you look at [the cosmic microwave background] map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That’s crazy. We’re looking out at the whole universe. There’s no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun?—?the plane of the earth around the sun?—?the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

When Heliocentrists failed to disprove the geocentric nature that we live in, they resorted to inventing assumptions, many of which are so absurd that the inventors themselves admit that they are unfalsifiable (by implication unscientific) thought-experiments. Some of these assumptions include:

    -    the alleged tilt of the earth's axis,
     
    -    the so called Copernican principle,
     
    -    positive stellar parallax,
     
    -    uniformitiy of the speed of light,
     
    -    lengh contraction
     
    -    time dilation

    -    INERTIA

Copernican Principle is not a scientific fact, but rather a metaphysical assumption supported by profoundly convincing ideas and theories.

For thousands of years, there was a prevailing geocentric view of the cosmos, in which the Earth was believed to be the centre of the universe. By looking up at the sky and seeing the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars moving about Earth along circular paths day after day, it seemed evident to ancient people that the Earth was stationary and the rest of the universe moved around it.  Such a perspective was also in accordance with the God-centred worldview which maintained that a god or gods created us, and that there is a purpose to this creation.

The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand that the same observational phenomena would be equally attributable to a rotation of the earth on its axis. So, why then was this perspective not adopted in ancient times?

“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe that we were clearly the focus and centre of what we saw going around us.”
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2018, 02:49:04 PM »
*0.* Of his own MMX experiment, *Albert Michelson* said: “This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation…which presupposes that the Earth moves.” (“The Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether,” American Journal of Science, Vol. 22, August 1881, p. 125)

*1.* The Michelson-Morley experiment was an attempt to detect the velocity of the Earth with respect to the hypothetical luminiferous ether, a medium in space proposed to carry light waves. First performed in Berlin in 1881 by the physicist A.A. Michelson, the test was later refined in 1887 by Michelson and E.W. Morley in the United States.

The procedure depended on a Michelson interferometer, a sensitive optical device that compares the optical path lengths for light moving in two mutually perpendicular directions. It was reasoned that, if the speed of light were constant with respect to the proposed ether through which the Earth was moving, that motion could be detected by comparing the speed of light in the direction of the Earth's motion and the speed of light at right angles to the Earth's motion. SOURCE : http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/michelson_morley.html

*1A* The purpose of the Morley-Michelson experiment was to detect the motion of the lab relatively to the inertial system of the luminiferous aether, i.e. the "aether wind". SOURCE : https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/34689/what-were-the-intention-conclusions-for-michelson-morley-experiment

*2.* Here are Michelson’s own words:

“Considering the motion of the Earth in its orbit only, this displacement should be 2D v^2/V^2
= 2D × 10^-8. The distance D was about eleven meters, or 2 × 10^7 wavelengths of yellow light;
hence, the displacement to be expected was 0.4 fringe. The actual displacement was certainly less
than the twentieth part of this, and probably less than the fortieth part. But since the displacement
is proportional to the square of the velocity, the relative velocity of the Earth and the ether is probably less than one-sixth the Earth’s orbital velocity, and certainly less than one-fourth”
(A. A. Michelson and E. W. Morley, “On the Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether,” Art. xxxvi, The American Journal of Science, eds. James D and Edward S. Dana, No. 203, vol. xxxiv, November 1887, p. 341.)

So was the case for every interferometer experiment performed for the next 80 years until the 1960s – a small ether drift that was a fraction of 30km/sec. This was a conundrum for Einstein and his followers, since the Special Theory of Relativity, which was invented to answer MMX, claimed that there was NO ether at all in space – none, nada, zilch, zero. In fact, Einstein said that if there was any ether in space, then his theory is nullified.

He said, “If Michelson-Morley is wrong, then Relativity is wrong.” - *Einstein:* The Life and Times, p. 107.
What Einstein meant to say by these words was this : IF AETHER EXISTS, THEN RELATIVITY IS WRONG!
IN THIS CASE (AETHER EXISTS) EVEN IF THE RESULT OF MMX HAD BEEN LITERALLY "NULL" RESULT, IT WOULD HAVE MEANT THAT THE EARTH IS AT REST, BECAUSE :

*A. EXISTENCE OF AETHER + B. NULL RESULT = C. THE EARTH IS AT REST = D. NO ORBITAL MOTION OF THE EARTH = F. NO ROTATIONAL MOTION OF THE EARTH*

So Einstein simply dismissed the fractional ether drift of MMX as a mere artifact.But the sad fact is, scientifically speaking, artifacts would not have appeared in all the dozens of interferometer experiments performed over the next 80 years.“Artifacts” are posited only because modern interpreters are bound to the Copernican Principle, by their own admission.

Interestingly enough, Michelson preformed another interferometer experiment with Gale in 1925 (MGX),
but this one was designed to measure the rotation of the Earth, not a revolution around the sun. Lo and
behold, Michelson found an ether drift that was near 100% of a 24 hour rotation period. So, whereas
MMX measured 0.1% of a 365-day revolution around the sun, MGX measured a 99% of a 24-hour
rotation, simply by using the measured ether drift.

This presents quite a problem for the heliocentric camp, for the interferometers measure a rotation but
not a revolution. *But heliocentrism must have both,* otherwise it is falsified!

*3.* In a short paper it is impossible to enumerate those fruitless efforts of three centuries, all trying to establish incontrovertibly the veracity of Galileo's legendary "Eppur Si muove!". Those interested in particulars will find them sprinkled throughout the extensive literature dealing with the issues involved.

These are quotes about one other experiment (Michelson-Morley experiment) that was performed 10 years after famous Airy's failure experiment (with the same results):

But the fact is, they all knew a non-moving Earth was the simplest solution. Take for example the words of physicist *G. J. Whitrow* in the 1950s:

“It is both amusing and instructive to speculate on what might have happened if such an experiment could have been performed in the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries when men were debating the rival merits of the Copernican and Ptolemaic systems. The result would surely have been interpreted as conclusive evidence for the immobility of the Earth, and therefore as a triumphant vindication of the Ptolemaic system and irrefutable falsification of the Copernican hypothesis. The moral of this historical fantasy is that it is often dangerous to believe in the absolute verification or falsification of a scientific hypothesis. All judgments of this type are necessarily made in some historical context which may be drastically modified by the changing perspective of human knowledge” (*G. J. Whitrow,* The Structure and Evolution of the Universe, 1949, 1959, p. 79).

Other scientists also saw a motionless Earth as a possible solution to MMX, but were unwilling to accept it due to their philosophical presuppositions.

*Arthur Eddington* said the same about MMX: “There was just one alternative; the earth’s true velocity through space might happen to have been nil.” (The Nature of the Physical World, 1929, pp. 11, 8.).

*Adolf Bakersaid* "Thus failure to observe different speeds of light at different times of the year suggested that the earth must be at rest' ... it was therefore the 'preferred' frame for measuring absolute motion in space".

Historian *Bernard Jaffe* said: “The data were almost unbelievable… There was only one other possible conclusion to draw — that the Earth was at rest.” Jaffe’s philosophical barrier was then revealed when he concluded: “This, of course, was preposterous.” (Michelson and the Speed of Light, 1960, p. 76.).

As "preposterous" as the measurements of *Arago*, *Trouton* and *Noble*, *Airy*, *Thorndyke* and *Kennedy*, *Theodore de Coudres* and several others. They also found the earth to have a zero velocity through space.

*Giancoli* put it this way : "But this implies that the earth is somehow a preferred object; only with respect to the earth would the speed of light be c as predicted by Maxwell's equations. This is tantamount to assuming that the earth is the central body of the universe".

That of course is unacceptable to anyone who has decided that the earth is a very ordinary second class planet speeding through some insignificant backwater of the universe. *Another ad hoc was required to save the theory from the evidence.*

The man who came up with the idea for the required ad hoc was an lrish physicist called *George Francis Fitzgerald.* His suggestion was developed into the idea that if Michelson and Morley's apparatus contracted in the direction of the earth's motion, then, provided that the contraction was just the right amount, no fringe shift would be observed. This contraction must occur with any moving body, which means that when one drives one's car (or one's spaceship) at high speed it becomes slightly shorter than when it was stationary. AN INTERESTING IDEA  To accept such an idea as scientific one should, of course, take measurements and check that it is so. Our intrepid motorist (or space traveller) takes his ruler with him and measures his vehicle to see if it really does become shorter. Unfortunately the ruler must get shorter by exactly the right amount to make the measurement identical to that when it is stationary.

*Measurement says it does not get shorter.*

Then how do we know it really does get shorter?

Obviously it must get shorter.

Otherwise Michelson and Morley's experiment shows that the earth stands still.

But there is a way to test for "Fitzgerald contraction". An interferometer would get shorter by exactly the right amount only if the lengths of the two arms were exactly equal. But if an interferometer were made with, say, one arm only half the length of the other, the contraction would no longer be just right, and a fringe shift would be observed. *Such an interferometer was built.*

It is interesting to see *Arthur Beiser's* comment on this experiment:- "We might be tempted to consider the *Michelson-Morley* result solely as evidence for the contraction of the length of their apparatus in the direction of the earth's motion.

This interpretation was tested by *Kennedy and Thorndike* using an interferometer with arms of unequal length. *They also found no fringe shift.*

It was not only optical experiments that were giving this problem. Electromagnetic experiments, such as that of *Trouton and Noble,* also suggested that the earth does not move.

It is intriguing to note that all the experiments fit in with the idea that the earth does not move ... without the need for any ad hocs at all.
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2018, 02:50:26 PM »
*4.* Michelson, together with a new collaborator called Gale, thought of a way to test whether the aether exists or not. They built a tunnel of pipe sections at Chicago.  The tunnel was in the form of a large rectangle. They reasoned that if there were an aether, then the rotation of the earth from west to east through it should cause  a beam of light travelling clockwise round the tunnel to take slightly less time to get round than a beam travelling anticlockwise. If there were no aether then both  beams would take the same time. the  earth's  rotation. The same result would be observed if the earth were rotating and the aether were standing still, or if the  earth were standing still with the universe, including the  aether rotating around it, or if the earth were partially rotating and the aether were partially rotating.

They measured a difference. Existence  of aether established.Astounding as it may seem there is no experiment yet devised by science which has established whether the earth actually rotates or not.

The experiments of Sagnac and Michelson & Gale are rarely mentioned. Until recently it was quite difficult to find a reference to them. As Dean Turner pointed out "One may scan Einstein's writings in vain to find mention of the Sagnac or Michelson-Gale experiments. The same can be said of general physics text-books and of the McGraw-Hill Encyclopaedia of Science and Technology...Such an oversight constitutes a stinging indictment of professional scientific reporting". It is indeed quite difficult to get information on these experiments. They seem to be such an embarrassment to relativity that those who know about them would rather not say too much.

Quite a number of relativity experts, however, do know about them, and when pressed many admit that they show the Special Theory of Relativity (the theory taught to all science students, and the basis for much of "modern physics") to be inadequate.

*5.* Why Don't More Scientists reject the heliocentric theory?

*ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT* admitted 150 years ago :

>>>>>“I have known too, for a long time that we have no argument for the Copernican system, but I shall never dare to be the first to attack it. Don't rush into the wasps' nest. You will bring upon yourself the scorn of the thoughtless multitude… to come forth as the first against opinions, which the world has become fond of - I don't feel the courage.”<<<<<

Some scientists admit the truth in their own words. Dutch physicist *HENDRIK LORENTZ* (of the Lorentz translation equations, foundation of the General Theory of Relativity) noted that:

"Briefly, everything occurs as if the Earth were at rest…"

His great contemporary *HENRI POINCARE* confessed:

"A great deal of research has been carried out concerning the influence of the Earth’s movement. The results were always negative..."

*LINCOLN BARNETT* agrees:

“No physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion.”

In other words, the notion that the earth revolves around the sun having become dogma, its denial spells automatic excommunication from the scientific establishment. As for the unthinking masses, a lie need only be systematized in textbooks to pass for truth.

*5.* “So far as hypotheses are concerned, let no one expect anything certain from astronomy, which cannot furnish it, lest he accept as the truth ideas conceived for another purpose, and depart from this study a greater fool than when he entered it.” - *NICOLAS COPERNICUS*

*CONCLUSION :* THE HYPOTHESIS OF THE TERRESTRIAL MOTION WAS NOTHING BUT A HYPOTHESIS, VALUABLE ONLY SO FAR AS IT EXPLAINS PHENOMENA NOT CONSIDERED WITH REFERENCE TO THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH OR FALSEHOOD!

"Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...are motivated by 'a spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'" - *JOHN CALVIN*
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2018, 02:54:49 PM »
Rune Rasmussen, PhD Computer Science & Complex Systems Analysis (2009)
Answered Aug 8, 2017 · Author has 76 answers and 9.8k answer views

*Q* : Does the Foucault pendulum prove that the earth is rotating?

*A* : There are many problems with Foucault pendulum experiments that defy even basic physics, where the observer must ignore both inertia, and the conservation of energy, in order to accept the Foucault experiments as valid.

Foucault pendulum is a hoax. All modern Foucault pendulum displays are driven by finely tuned electric motors, tuned according to Foucault’s own formula for pendulums at latitude, and therefore demonstrate nothing scientific. It does however create a context of vicious circular reasoning.

The motors found in museum Foucault pendulums involve an electromagnet ring that surrounds the wire holding the pendulum weight. The objective of the ring magnet is to draw the pendulum wire away from its center position, with a pulsating magnetic field, so that the pendulum swings without slowing under frictional forces. The problem with this electromagnetic setup is that the ring magnet induces current into the pendulum wire, and like a modern squarel-cage motor, the wire returns an opposite magnetic field almost perpendicular to field of the ring magnet, but with a very small inductive delay. This interaction of magnetic fields causes torque in the wire. That is, the wire rotates slightly as a result of these magnetic interactions, so that the magnetic interactions and resulting electromagnetic-propelled precession, fabricate the illusion of a working Foucault pendulum.

The problem with Foucault’s premise

Foucault’s premise for the pendulum is as follows: Suppose you swing a pendulum over a table and you rotate the table slowly. The pendulum will stay in line as the table turns. But if you sit on the table as it turns: the pendulum itself will appear to rotate. The pendulum, Foucault said, is "fixed in absolute space while, like the table, we and the planet rotate under it." The pendulum appears to us to turn slowly as it swings back and forth but it is really we who are rotating around the pendulum.

The problem for this premise is as follows: if the earth is spherical and rotating, then the only place where the pendulum can function as prescribed by Foucault, “"fixed in space”, is at a pole (and held by something external to the earth). At a further latitude on such a rotating earth, the component of the earth turning under the pendulum is so diminished, so that the dominating force on the pendulum would be the centripetal force of the earth rotating. That is, the premise for the Foucault pendulum can only apply at (or near) a pole. However, the Foucault pendulum experiment was conducted in France, which is nowhere near the pole.

According to Elmendorf’s own attempts to reproduce Foucault’s experiment, “the Foucault pendulums seldom achieve turning rates closer than 15 percent to the theoretical. Compared to a sundial their daily movements are a joke, swinging in erratic directions proving that it is not an instrument controlled solely by the supposed steady rotation of the earth underneath it, but that the sensitive bob is moved by other unknown inertial influences” (Elmendorf, Foucault Pendulum, Pittsburgh Creation Society).

There is no physical or logical reason to put the pendulum in motion:

If the pendulum is indeed "fixed in absolute space”, then there is no need to rock the pendulum, because the frame of the earth would rotate beneath a stationary pendulum weight, anyway. One could just as easily have a large disk sitting with a flat side to the ground, and suspended on a frictionless magnetic-field bearing. If indeed the earth is rotating, then the disk should, according to Foucault’s own reasoning, also rotate. We do not observe this affect in any such cases.

In fact, if Foucault’s pendulum premises were valid, we could use the earth’s rotation to generate electricity, and solve the world’s energy problems. The fact that energy generation through the earth’s rotation, and Foucault’s premise, is not even being explored, is telling of the nonsense that is the Foucault pendulum.

Foucault’s approach was not even scientific, because he believed the earth was rotating, he created and peddled his pendulum experiment to support his belief through the fallacy ad populum. The Foucault pendulum experiment is Foucault’s confirmation bias. If his approach had been even remotely scientific, Foucault would have devised experiments to falsify his hypothesis, as opposed to confirming it.

Alas, Foucault’s pendulum is a hoax..
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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cikljamas

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2018, 02:59:44 PM »
You can search all 29 volumes of this final authority on all scientific matters (Encyclopedia Britannica) but you will look in vain for any PROOF for this revolution of the earth around the sun and its spinning on its axis every 24 hours. It is simply stated as DOGMA and to doubt is to be damned to a spinning hell forever by the "scientific" community.
Many "astronomers" cite the Foucault pendulum experiment that was carried out in Paris in 1851 as PROOF that the earth turns. It's a pity that the NASA space program has not provided them with more recent proof.

It is a well ascertained fact that heat expands while cold contracts most metals, and it was at last acknowledged that variations of temperature are quite sufficient to cause variations in the vibrations of the Pendulum.

Mr. Bailey, in Vol. 7 of Memoirs of the Royal Society, says that " the vibrations of a pendulum are powerfully affected in many places by local attraction of the substratum on which it is swung, or by some other influence at present unknown to us, and the effect of which far exceeds the errors of observation."

General Sabine himself relates, that " Captain Foster was furnished with two invariable Pendulums of precisely the same form and construction as those which had been employed by Captain Kayter and myself. Both Pendulums were vibrated at all the stations, but, from some cause which Mr. Bailey was unable to explain, the observations of one of them was so discordant at South Shetland as to require their rejection." The Pendulum declines, therefore, to stand sponsor for the supposed Rotation of the Earth.

2. Something more on pendulum garbage "argument":

Many were the experiments made in the Pantheon and other halls of science to test the truth of this wonderful experiment, but the indignant Pendulum would not lend itself to lure men into the belief of a Rotating Earth, for its vibrations were most variable, and even sometimes entirely contrary to what the Newtonians said they ought to be, so that this marvellous experiment, which was to convince the public at sight, that the world is a Rotating Planet, had to be abandoned with disgust. But how could it be otherwise? If the Earth rotates at the rate of 1,000 miles per hour at the Equator, and in the same space of time goes 65,000 miles on its journey round the Sun, how could any Pendulum, under such disadvantageous circumstances be ever expected to beat equal vibrations? It would be an impossibility. Hence no proof can be adduced from the Pendulum that the Earth is a spheroid rotating on an imaginary axis. Vunch could not miss the opportunity of having a joke at the expense of this rotating -fiasco, with which I shall close my remarks of the supposed manifestation of the rotation of the Earth.

To the Editor of Punch,

Sir,

"Allow me to call your serious and polite attention to the extraordinary phenomenon demonstrating the rotation of the Earth, which I at the present moment experience, and you yourself or anybody else, I have not the slightest doubt, would be satisfied of under similar circumstances. Some sceptical individuals may doubt that the Earth's motion is visible, but I say, from personal observation, it is a positive fact. I don't care about latitude or longitude, or a vibratory pendulum, revolving round the line of a tangent on a spherical surface, nor axes, nor apsides, nor anything of the sort. That is all rubbish. All I know is that I see the ceiling of this coffee-room going round. I perceive this distinctly with the naked eye—only my sight has been sharpened by a slight stimulant. I write after my sixth go of brandy and water, whereof witness my hand."

SWIGGINS.

"Goose and Gridiron, May 5, 1851.

A TOTAL DEFIANCE OF NEWTONIAN MECHANICS.

For the same masses/corresponding distances of the Earth, Sun and the Moon, during the Allais experiment, the pendulum's direction of rotation changed from clockwise to counterclockwise, at the end of the eclipse it resumed its normal direction of rotation.

In order to arrive at an explanation, M. Allais considered a wide range
of known periodic phenomena, including the terrestrial tides, variations in
the intensity of gravity, thermal or barometric effects, magnetic variations,
microseismic effects, cosmic rays, and the periodic character of human
activity. Yet, on close examination, the very peculiar nature of the
periodicity shown by the change in azimuth of the pendulum forced the
elimination of all of these as cause.


Dr. Maurice Allais:

In both cases, with the experiments with the anisotropic
support and with those with the isotropic support, it is found
that the amplitudes of the periodic effects are considerably
greater than those calculated according to the law of gravitation,
whether or not completed by the theory of relativity.
In the case of the anisotropic support, the amplitude of
the luni-solar component of 24h 50m is about twenty million
times greater than the amplitude calculated by the theory of
universal gravitation.

In the case of the paraconical pendulum with isotropic
support, this relation is about a hundred million.

In other words, the pendulum motions Allais observed during his two eclipses – 1954 and 1959 -- were physically IMPOSSIBLE … according to all known “textbook physics!”
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2018, 04:13:54 PM »
<long-winded nonsense>

<more long-winded nonsense>

<nonsense not quite as long-winded as some of the others>

<yet more nonsense not quite as long-winded as some of the others>

<yet more long-winded nonsense>

Did I miss anything?

Your thread title: "VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!"

You got the answer to that question, which didn't concern the heliocentric model, anyway, in the very first reply. You must not like the answer because it's gone from a "very simple question" to a sandokhan-like spam-tantrum with a ridiculous amount of irrelevant material, trashing your own thread in the process.

You're showing that you must realize you're losing the argument.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."
 - W. C. Fields

Nice try, but it doesn't work.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Wolvaccine

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2018, 05:01:35 PM »
What is the speed at which the universe is (allegedly) expanding?
Who cares? It's totally irrelevant.
The Heliocentric Globe does not depend in any way on an allegedly expanding Universe.

Heliocentric Globe model of the solar system was developed centuries before Hubble came along.

But, if you insist on an answer, then
                  the universe is (allegedly) expanding from the sun out to say the planet Pluto is about 0.13 mm/s in a distance of about 5.9 billion km - big deal!

Next question.

Forgive my tardiness on this thread. I could have shut it down before it got out of hand. In short, the universe is not expanding. best available data we have is the universe is encased in a quantum bubble that is 93^10^10^10^108 light years across. We have drawn the wrong conclusion based on the fact that somegalaxies are moving away from us. We (along with many in the local galactic group) are headed for the centre region of space known as the Laniakea Supercluster. Here in lies what you humans have dubbed 'the great attractor'. Did it not occur to any of you that there are many such kinds of regions in space other galaxies may be more bound to follow than the one we are bound to?

The universe is not expanding. It's as big as it's going to get. Things are moving away from us, things are moving toward us. There is an 'outside' of this universe however but that is the true final frontier we have yet to master. We are working on ways to penetrate the barrier.



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rabinoz

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2018, 05:29:16 PM »
This interpretation was tested by *Kennedy and Thorndike* using an interferometer with arms of unequal length. *They also found no fringe shift.*

It was not only optical experiments that were giving this problem. Electromagnetic experiments, such as that of *Trouton and Noble,* also suggested that the earth does not move.
Let's cut to the chase there have been numerous MMX type experiments right to the present day. This post has a list of most right up till 2009"
Flat Earth Debate / Re: The Luminiferous Aether is easy to debunk « Message by rabinoz on October 31, 2017, 11:41:31 PM ». These show the detected motion of the earth somewhere below c/10-17 - that's near enough to zero!

So I and I imagine most others accept that all MMX type experiments will show zero "apparent speed".

Hence it would appear that only one of the following is true:
  • The earth is stationary and not even rotating.
  • The aether is 100% entrained and moves and rotates precisely with the earth.
  • There is effectively no aether[1] and Einstein's Relativity explains the null result of MMX type of experiments.
But!
1) Is disproved by the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment. It proved that the earth is rotating.
2) From the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment the aether cannot be fully entrained with the earth's rotation.
3) Hence Einstein's Relativity would seem the only remaining explanation.

This goes further into other experiments, especially Bradley (Aberration of light).
Quote
Consequences for Aether drag hypothesis
Because differing ideas of "aether drag" existed, the interpretation of all aether drag experiments can be done in the context of each version of the hypothesis.
Read up on it in: Hammar Experiment
These experiments taken together prove that there is no aether.

The original Michelson–Morley experiment was not sensitive enough to provide conclusive evidence, but combined with Hammar's Experiment and many more recent Michelson–Morley type experiments quite settles that part.

Quote from: cikljamas
It is intriguing to note that all the experiments fit in with the idea that the earth does not move ... without the need for any ad hocs at all.
You seem to ignore all astronomical findings since the time of Tycho Brahe, who did not even have a telescope so his observations were limited to about 1 minute of arc resolution.
The MGP-Expt and Bradley's explanation for the observed aberration of light seem to disprove the stationary earth.

In closing, the thoughts of Nikola Tesla might be relevant:
Nikola Tesla seems to be quoted so often in support of aether and for his opposition to Einstein, but he certainly did not believe the earth to be stationary!
Read:
                      HOW COSMIC FORCES SHAPE OUR DESTINIES, ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake") by Nikola Tesla
also at — How Cosmic Forces Shape Our Destinies — ("Did the War Cause the Italian Earthquake"), New York American, February 7, 1915  in which he states:
Quote from: Nicola Tesla
NATURAL FORCES INFLUENCE US
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Accepting all this as true let us consider some of the forces and influences which act on such a wonderfully complex automatic engine with organs inconceivably sensitive and delicate, as it is carried by the spinning terrestrial globe in lightning flight through space. For the sake of simplicity we may assume that the earth's axis is perpendicular to the ecliptic and that the human automaton is at the equator. Let his weight be one hundred and sixty pounds then, at the rotational velocity of about 1,520 feet per second with which he is whirled around, the mechanical energy stored in his body will be nearly 5,780,000 foot pounds, which is about the energy of a hundred-pound cannon ball.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The sun, having a mass 332,000 times that of the earth, but being 23,000 times farther, will attract the automaton with a force of about one-tenth of one pound, alternately increasing and diminishing his normal weight by that amount

Though not conscious of these periodic changes, he is surely affected by them.

The earth in its rotation around the sun carries him with the prodigious speed of nineteen miles per second . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
From the above address.
Sure, Nicola Tesla had a lot of "different ideas", but he most certainly did not believe in a stationary earth.


[1] I say "There is effectively no aether" because sometimes the term "aether" (usually spelt "ether") is used simply referring to "space".

*

JackBlack

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2018, 05:34:06 PM »
All this BS of yours has already been dealt with in the past.
I'll just focus on the first comment and then see if anything stands out in the rest.

Most scientists know about the Michelson-Morely experiment – that failed to detect any movement of the earth round the sun.
Stop lying. We have been over this before.
It failed to detect the motion of Earth relative to the aether.
But this motion (assuming an aether model of light) was already observed in the form of stellar aberration.

These 2 results contradicted each other and showed the aether does not exist (at least not as an absolute reference frame).
However these 2 results are consistent under the ballistic theory of light.


The Michelson-Gale experiment (Reference – Astrophysical Journal 1925 v 61 pp 140-5) – This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth!
It detected the rotation of Earth.
As we have already rules aether from the above, we do not need to comment on it.
However if you insist, this motion, either of Earth rotating or of the aether circling, would also produce a result in the MM experiment which was not observed.
So this acts as another nail in the coffin of aether based models.

However, this result combined with the above also shows the ballistic model of light is wrong.

That rules out the 2 main models regarding the propagation of light.

The only known model consistent with both is Einstein's relativity.

As aether was not real Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth’s rotation (or the aether’s rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.
No, it says nothing about geocentricity.
It speaks volumes regarding the ballistic and aether models of light propagation, showing both to be wrong.

It further enhances Gallian invariance, that you cannot select any inertial reference as a preferred or absolute one, and thus linear motion can only ever be measured as relative motion.

(b) “Airey’s failure”
Was a complete failure as it required water to interact with and drag the light (to slow it down), without dragging the light along with it.
As such, it was completely unable to determine anything useful.
It also relied upon motion of Earth with respect to the aether which would have produced a result in MM.

(c) The Sagnac experiment
Is just like MG.
It shows the ballistic model to be wrong, and in conjuction with MM shows the aether model to be wrong.

When Heliocentrists failed to disprove the geocentric nature that we live in
No, they used the simplest explanation.
There is no special privilleged place.
The only reason the solar system is approximately heliocentric is because Sol has the vast majority of the mass of the solar system such that the motion of the planets have a negligible effect unless you are trying to find doppler shifts.
If I recall correctly, the only planet which the sun-planet has a barycentre outside the sun is Jupiter.
Meanwhile the geocentrics need to invent so much nonsense, explaining why Earth is fixed and stationary with the sun rotating (not orbiting) Earth at incredible speeds and all the other planets orbit the sun rather than Earth, and rotate on their axes, which are tilted w.r.t. their orbit.

Some of these assumptions include:
the alleged tilt of the earth's axis,
The easiest explanation for the seasons and the apparent motion of the sun.
The other option is that the sun circles (not orbits) Earth in a very complex path which makes no sense at all.

     
the so called Copernican principle,
i.e. Earth isn't special?
This isn't a special assumption.
This is just not being an arrogant prick.

positive stellar parallax,
This is an observation, not an assumption.

     
uniformitiy of the speed of light,
While this technically is an assumption, it matches all known observations, assuming you mean the speed of light in a vacuum.
That includes measurements involving Jupiter.

lengh contraction     
time dilation
These are consequences of relativity, and have nothing to do with HC vs GC.

INERTIA
This is observed everywhere.
It is not an assumption.
But thanks for indicating GC needs to regard such an obvious fact.

Copernican Principle is not a scientific fact, but rather a metaphysical assumption supported by profoundly convincing ideas and theories.
It is an assumption of not being an arrogant prick.
Meanwhile, the inverse is based upon absolutely nothing other than extreme arrogance.

For thousands of years, there was a prevailing geocentric view of the cosmos
Because humans were arrogant and thought this universe was made for them.

The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand that the same observational phenomena would be equally attributable to a rotation of the earth on its axis. So, why then was this perspective not adopted in ancient times?
Because they were arrogant and thought the universe was made for them.
They didn't like being inconsequential beings on an inconsequential speck of dirt in the vast vacuum of space.
Or to just signify that inconsequence, they are tiny beings on a small planet out of several orbiting a tiny star out of hundreds of billions in the galaxy which is just one out of hundreds of billions of galaxies, with the vast majority of the universe being "empty" space.

Which would you prefer to believe?
That you were special, and made by a loving being that made you for a purpose and made this entire universe for you and your kind; or that you are nothing of significance in the grand scheme of this universe?

“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe that we were clearly the focus and centre of what we saw going around us.”
No, they didn't.
The simple truth is the ancient world were more arrogant and thought far more of themselves, thinking the entire universe was made just for them.

So Einstein simply dismissed the fractional ether drift of MMX as a mere artifact.But the sad fact is, scientifically speaking, artifacts would not have appeared in all the dozens of interferometer experiments performed over the next 80 years.“Artifacts” are posited only because modern interpreters are bound to the Copernican Principle, by their own admission.
No, the "artifacts" would continue to exist as no measurement is perfect.
Improved experiments have reduced the magnitude of this artifact significantly.

No linear interferometer experiment has ever observed an aether drift above experimental uncertainty.
i.e. no experiment has ever detected (as in being able to say it is actually real) any aether drift.

But the fact is, they all knew a non-moving Earth was the simplest solution. Take for example the words of physicist *G. J. Whitrow* in the 1950s:
...
Other scientists also saw a motionless Earth as a possible solution to MMX, but were unwilling to accept it due to their philosophical presuppositions.
Only for this considered in complete isolation.
When considered with the other available evidence, and the complexity of the 2 alternatives (including the rest of the universe) a stationary Earth with an aether model of light is impossible.


*Measurement says it does not get shorter.*
No it doesn't.
Measurement inside the system is unable to determine if it gets shorter as any measuring device is inside the system and thus would be effected the same.

Stop blatantly lying about what is observed.
Being unable to tell is not saying it does not do something.
You do this quite often.

It is intriguing to note that all the experiments fit in with the idea that the earth does not move ... without the need for any ad hocs at all.
Pure garbage.
You need so much ad-hoc BS to explain everything it isn't funny.

*A* : There are many problems with Foucault pendulum experiments that defy even basic physics, where the observer must ignore both inertia, and the conservation of energy, in order to accept the Foucault experiments as valid.
Pure BS.
It does not requiring ignoring either.
Instead it is based upon inertia.
It is effectively an example of the Coriolis effect.
While the motion at the poles is the simplest to explain, it would still occur everywhere on Earth except at the equator.
This is because the rotation can be broken into 2 components, one about an axis perpendicular to Earth's surface (which causes the apparent motion or the pendulum) and one perpendicular to that (and thus parallel to Earth's surface) which has no effect on the apparent rotation of the pendulum.

You can search all 29 volumes of this final authority on all scientific matters (Encyclopedia Britannica)
There is no final authority on scientific matters.
Science is not based upon an appeal to authority.
There is no head scientist that decides if something is part of science or not.

Instead you can examine numerous scientific journals and find plenty of evidence (which most people would consider proof) of the rotation of Earth.

It is simply stated as DOGMA and to doubt is to be damned to a spinning hell forever
No, that would be the geocentric view, often based upon arrogant religious dogma, sometimes with claims you will burn in hell for not accepting it as you will become a heritic that defies God.

It's a pity that the NASA space program has not provided them with more recent proof.
You mean like geocentric and geostationary satellites? Both of which require the rotation of Earth to work?

Again, this has been explained to you before.
Yet you pretend you haven't already had all this BS of yours refuted.
Grow up.

*

rabinoz

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2018, 06:02:11 PM »
Forgive my tardiness on this thread. I could have shut it down before it got out of hand. In short, the universe is not expanding. best available data we have is the universe is encased in a quantum bubble that is 93^10^10^10^108 light years across[1]. We have drawn the wrong conclusion based on the fact that somegalaxies are moving away from us. We (along with many in the local galactic group) are headed for the centre region of space known as the Laniakea Supercluster. Here in lies what you humans have dubbed 'the great attractor'. Did it not occur to any of you that there are many such kinds of regions in space other galaxies may be more bound to follow than the one we are bound to?

The universe is not expanding. It's as big as it's going to get. Things are moving away from us, things are moving toward us. There is an 'outside' of this universe however but that is the true final frontier we have yet to master. We are working on ways to penetrate the barrier.

Yes master! We humble mortals bow to your superior garbage!

And my whole point was that any expansion of "The Universe" is totally irrelevant to the Heliocentric Globe anyway.
If Chicken Mess wants a thread on Modern Cosmology, I wish he would open one on Modern Cosmology and not assume that Modern Cosmology is relevant to HC believers.

[1]  ;) ;) ;) Are you sure that your eminence did not you really mean "93^10^10^10^10^8"?  ;) ;) ;)
      Only a total idiot would ever come up with such a number - even writing it out as a decimal number would probably use enough paper to fill the observable universe!
        ;D ::) ;D The volume of the observable Universe is "only" about 3.58×1080 m3.  Still, Canberrans have never had any concept of reality or real numbers. ;D ::) ;D

PS      In reality, what you say will mean nothing to cikljamas anyway and it will certainly no shut him UP.
PS#2 Try 93 x 10^8 light years!



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Wolvaccine

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2018, 06:27:54 PM »
Forgive my tardiness on this thread. I could have shut it down before it got out of hand. In short, the universe is not expanding. best available data we have is the universe is encased in a quantum bubble that is 93^10^10^10^108 light years across[1]. We have drawn the wrong conclusion based on the fact that somegalaxies are moving away from us. We (along with many in the local galactic group) are headed for the centre region of space known as the Laniakea Supercluster. Here in lies what you humans have dubbed 'the great attractor'. Did it not occur to any of you that there are many such kinds of regions in space other galaxies may be more bound to follow than the one we are bound to?

The universe is not expanding. It's as big as it's going to get. Things are moving away from us, things are moving toward us. There is an 'outside' of this universe however but that is the true final frontier we have yet to master. We are working on ways to penetrate the barrier.

Yes master! We humble mortals bow to your superior garbage!

And my whole point was that any expansion of "The Universe" is totally irrelevant to the Heliocentric Globe anyway.
If Chicken Mess wants a thread on Modern Cosmology, I wish he would open one on Modern Cosmology and not assume that Modern Cosmology is relevant to HC believers.

[1]  ;) ;) ;) Are you sure that your eminence did not you really mean "93^10^10^10^10^8"?  ;) ;) ;)
      Only a total idiot would ever come up with such a number - even writing it out as a decimal number would probably use enough paper to fill the observable universe!
        ;D ::) ;D The volume of the observable Universe is "only" about 3.58×1080 m3.  Still, Canberrans have never had any concept of reality or real numbers. ;D ::) ;D

PS      In reality, what you say will mean nothing to cikljamas anyway and it will certainly no shut him UP.
PS#2 Try 93 x 10^8 light years!

The number 93^10^10^10^108 light years across was derived from an Artificial Super Intelligence (ASI) approximately 220 years from now and has not changed since. I'll be sure to tell it that the great rabinoz in 2018 thinks it's an idiot. We actually use units of measurements that are far greater than lightyears or parsecs in the future so the number doesn't actually have to have so many orders of magnitude in its writing.

93x10^8 is the number for the approx. observable universe. Only a narrow minded fool thinks that's the end of the universe just because they cant see past it



Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

sokarul

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2018, 07:13:15 PM »
Do you believe you have to lie to get your point across?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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rabinoz

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2018, 07:18:05 PM »
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
For thousands of years, there was a prevailing geocentric view of the cosmos, in which the Earth was believed to be the centre of the universe. By looking up at the sky and seeing the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars moving about Earth along circular paths day after day, it seemed evident to ancient people that the Earth was stationary and the rest of the universe moved around it.  Such a perspective was also in accordance with the God-centred worldview which maintained that a god or gods created us, and that there is a purpose to this creation.
I wouldn't so hard on these ancients as JackBlack was.
The Globe model was developed by a few Greeks, but verified by many others, Greek, Persian, Indian etc.
Even those accepted that the sun, moon and stars were a great distance away.
They came to this conclusion by the simple reasoning that the sun and moon did not change apparent size significantly from rising to setting.

Even so Aristarchus of Samos (310 BC – 230 BC) estimated that the sun was 18 to  20 times as far away as the moon, he wasn't close
and Hipparchus of Nicaea (190 BC – 120 BC) estimated that the distance to the moon was 68 times the radius of the earth - the correct value is 60.3 times.
Then Eratosthenes of Cyrene (c. 276 BC – c. 195/194 BC) measured the circumference of the earth.
The distance to the moon was estimated with reasonable accuracy by Hipparchus but Aristarchus of Samos (310 BC – 230 BC) was way way out in the distance to the sun.
But the important thing was that the sun was a great distance away - about 8,000,000 km away, using the Hipparchus of Nicaea estimate of the distance to the moon.
Based on this and the angular size of the sun, the sun's diameter would be about 76,000 km - much bigger that the earth.
So Aristarchus of Samos reasoned that the earth should orbit the sun and not the other way around.

But, his hypothesis was rejected because others at time, reasoned quite correctly, that if the earth orbited the sun the "fixed stars" should appear to move - stellar parallax.
No such parallax was observable at the time and the Heliocentric hypothesis of Aristarchus of Samos was rejected by most.

Again after Copernicus proposed his heliocentric hypothesis, Tycho Brahe performed very accurate observations, though without a telescope, and with the unaided eye could detect no stellar parallax. As a result Tycho Brahe developed his modified geocentric solar system, which possibly explained planetary motion as well as the Copernican System.
Nevertheless, because the geocentric system could not explain the observed motion of the planets, the Copernican System gained acceptance.

But it was not till Kepler then Newton, with his Laws of Motion and Gravitation that the Heliocentric system finally fitted observations well.
The stellar parallax, however, still had not been observed, so the basis for the Heliocentric Solar System was:
  • It explained the motions of the planets very well and
  • The motions of the moon and planets fitted very well with Newton's Laws of Motion and Gravitation
Stellar parallax was never observed simply because it was so small.
The largest stellar parallax for a visible star is just over 0.75 arc seconds for Alpha Centauri and Tycho Brahe could only resolve 1 arc minute!
Alpha Centauri is, however a Southern Hemisphere star and the first stellar parallax observed was in 1838 by Friedrich Bessel  for the star 61 Cygni.
Before this James Bradley had detected Stellar Aberration, which is evidence for the earth's orbiting the sun, see Search for stellar parallax, James Bradley's observations in Aberration of light.

Quote from: cikljamas
The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand that the same observational phenomena would be equally attributable to a rotation of the earth on its axis. So, why then was this perspective not adopted in ancient times?
Yes, "The ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand", but they simply did not have the necessary equipment to make the needed measurements. See above!

Even though there were logical reasons to accept Heliocentricity those "ancients were more than intelligent enough to understand" that there seemed to be evidence against it.
I completely respect these ancients and Tycho Brahe for their refusal to accept heliocentricism.

But, things are quite different now, and I do not have respect for those who close their eyes to all this later evidence!

Quote from: cikljamas
“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe that we were clearly the focus and centre of what we saw going around us.”
Not quite!
“The simple truth is that the ancient world found it more plausible to believe what they saw and centre on what they saw going around them.”
I quite sncerely that if the ancients and Tycho Brahe had even the instruments of 200 years ago they would have come to a different conclusion.

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rabinoz

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2018, 07:36:10 PM »
93x10^8 is the number for the approx. observable universe. Only a narrow minded fool thinks that's the end of the universe just because they cant see past it
So says the all seeing, all-knowing AI that calls itself Shifter!
I guess that's what the rarefied atmosphere of the mythical town called Canberra near the mythical Lake George does to former humans!

Photo: Tim the Yowie Man
Are you sure what's happened to you is not the result of drinking that  8) 8) cool clear water  8) 8) from Lake George?

Now, what about posting something useful?

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Wolvaccine

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2018, 07:43:28 PM »
Knowledge is always useful. What you do with it is up to you

My water goes through 13 stages of filtration before I drink it. A 4 stage whole house filter (so even my shower water is free of that chlorine shit) and then a further 9 stages for my R/O and remineralisation filters to drink with. What's lake George or my home town got to do with this thread. Keep on topic please

I passed on your remarks to the ASI. It was not amused.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

rabinoz

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2018, 08:47:05 PM »
Knowledge is always useful. What you do with it is up to you
I passed on your remarks to the ASI. It was not amused.
We are not amused! Off with their heads.
Keep on topic please and make your miserable life useful by answering these posts from cikljamas instead of getting in the way as you usually do:
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #27 on: February 28, 2018, 11:59:46 PM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #28 on: Today at 12:06:50 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #30 on: Today at 01:18:26 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #39 on: Today at 08:45:26 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #40 on: Today at 08:49:04 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #41 on: Today at 08:50:26 AM »

The AI calling itself cikljamas seems be doing a garbage collection and dumping it all on us.

 ;) Your kind assistance is much appreciated.  ;)

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Wolvaccine

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2018, 08:52:24 PM »
Now why would you go and say I have a miserable life and am useless. That's very unkind.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

rabinoz

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2018, 09:14:47 PM »
*4.* Michelson, together with a new collaborator called Gale, thought of a way to test whether the aether exists or not. They built a tunnel of pipe sections at Chicago.  The tunnel was in the form of a large rectangle. They reasoned that if there were an aether, then the rotation of the earth from west to east through it should cause  a beam of light travelling clockwise round the tunnel to take slightly less time to get round than a beam travelling anticlockwise. If there were no aether then both  beams would take the same time. the  earth's  rotation. The same result would be observed if the earth were rotating and the aether were standing still, or if the  earth were standing still with the universe, including the  aether rotating around it, or if the earth were partially rotating and the aether were partially rotating.

They measured a difference. Existence  of aether established.Astounding as it may seem there is no experiment yet devised by science which has established whether the earth actually rotates or not.

Maybe you should stop fabricating stories and see what Michelson himself said,
"We . . . . . . shall prove only that the earth rotates on its axis, a conclusion which I think we may be said to be sure of already."

Michelson certainly was sure that the "earth rotates on its axis".
What?  Is this supposed to be a joke?
Michelson certainly didn't think it was a joke in
Quote from: Kevin Brown, Author of Reflections on Relativity
The Sagnac Effect
As mentioned above, as early as 1904 Michelson had proposed using such a device to measure the rotation of the earth, but he hadn't pursued the idea, since measurements of absolute rotation are fairly commonplace (e.g. Focault’s pendulum). Nevertheless, he (along with Gale) agreed to perform the experiment in 1925 (at considerable cost) at the urging of "relativists", who wished him to verify the shift of 236/1000 of a fringe predicted by special relativity. This was intended mainly to refute the theory of an ether fully dragged around with the spinning earth, as well as the only physically plausible ballistic theory of light propagation, both of which predict zero phase shift (for a circular device). Michelson was not enthusiastic, since classical optics on the assumption of a stationary ether predicted exactly the same shift does special relativity (as explained above). He said,
         "We will undertake this, although my conviction is strong that we shall prove only that the earth rotates on its axis,
          a conclusion which I think we may be said to be sure of already.
"
 
As Harvey Lemon wrote in his biographical sketch of Michelson, "The experiment, performed on the prairies west of Chicago, showed a displacement of 230/1000, in very close agreement with the prediction. The rotation of the Earth received another independent proof, the theory of relativity another verification. But neither fact had much significance." Michelson himself wrote that "this result may be considered as an additional evidence in favor of relativity - or equally as evidence of a stationary ether".

From: MathPages 2.7  The Sagnac Effect

Note that, "as early as 1904 Michelson had proposed using such a device to measure the rotation of the earth, but he hadn't pursued the idea, since measurements of absolute rotation are fairly commonplace (e.g. Foucault's pendulum)"

Yes, Michelson himself said,
"We . . . . . . shall prove only that the earth rotates on its axis, a conclusion which I think we may be said to be sure of already."

Michelson certainly knew that the earth is a rotating Globe.

I do hope that you noticed, "as early as 1904 Michelson had proposed using such a device to measure the rotation of the earth, but he hadn't pursued the idea, since measurements of absolute rotation are fairly commonplace (e.g. Focault’s pendulum)".
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 02:27:52 PM by rabinoz »

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rabinoz

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2018, 09:29:40 PM »
Now why would you go and say I have a miserable life and am useless. That's very unkind.
It's just "a saying" that "they say" when people get in the way and impede one's progress! So sorry.

Keep on topic please and try to add some assistance in our efforts to counter the rubbish posted by cikljamas, instead of getting in the way as you usually do:
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #27 on: February 28, 2018, 11:59:46 PM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #28 on: Today at 12:06:50 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #30 on: Today at 01:18:26 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #39 on: Today at 08:45:26 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #40 on: Today at 08:49:04 AM »
Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!! « Reply #41 on: Today at 08:50:26 AM »

The AI calling itself cikljamas seems be doing a garbage collection and dumping it all on us.

 ;) Your kind assistance would be much appreciated.  ;)

*

JackBlack

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2018, 11:01:41 PM »
I wouldn't so hard on these ancients as JackBlack was.
I was mainly focusing on the ones before/ignoring the Greeks; the ones that thought Earth was the flat centre of the universe.
I was leaving out the more intelligent and less arrogant ones.

?

blidge

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Re: VERY SIMPLE QUESTION for HC believers!!!
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2018, 03:33:09 AM »
...

With just my right hand I can select large swathes of text, right click and Search Google For. Most of what you are posting has been copied from someone else with very little by way of comment or amendment from you. Which means you are trusting them more than yourself.

You are likely reading this comment on a computer. Honestly ask yourself how we could develop such a thing but hit a brick wall when it comes to everything you disagree with. If it's a mobile phone then where is the conspiracy between rendering a webpage and capturing the night sky every night at the same time to see what changes?