A few questions about the Sun from a novice

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A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« on: February 15, 2018, 09:40:42 AM »
Could someone explain to me how the Sun works in the Flat Earth model?

Namely:
1. How is it able to be suspended 5000 kilometers above the giant 40 thousand kilometer long disc and why does it rotate? It obviously doesn’t comply with the laws of gravity, so what force causes it to behave so weirdly?

2. How is a ball that is 50 kilometers in diameter able to produce so much thermonuclear energy to not only light so much territory of Earth but also keep burning? How does it produce so much energy? How does it not run out of “fuel”?

3. How does sunlight work? Supposedly it’s like a stroboscope, but how would that explain equinoxes, where the sunlight’s range differs dramatically in the Flat Earth model, in regards to the equator AND the “south” pole? The distance of the source of light is much smaller to the equator than to the South Pole, so why and how come sunlight works like that? Why is it so selective?

4. Lastly, if you guys could explain the last question, then why is the case so much different for all the other seasons? Why does the Sun somehow selectively change the power of sunlight in regards to specific regions of Earth at different times differently?

That’s all. I hope the discussion will be polite and civil. I just want to know what Flat Earth explanation could be behind all this.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 09:43:43 AM by SirParsifal »

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 10:06:08 AM »
The answers and explanations are long. Answers for 1 and 2 are in sig, 3 can be answered easily by models with two poles I think though I am not entirely clear on what you're asking.
4 is answered as the FAQ says. The Sun's motion isn't a circle with a fixed radius. It varies, moving in and moving out, thus its light is focused over certain areas at the expense of others.
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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 10:15:36 AM »
3 can be answered easily by models with two poles I think though I am not entirely clear on what you're asking.
Can't have two poles, an object can only have one axis of rotation.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 10:16:20 AM »
3 can be answered easily by models with two poles I think though I am not entirely clear on what you're asking.
Can't have two poles, an object can only have one axis of rotation.
Again, sig, I'm only giving the gist here.
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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 10:21:29 AM »
I don’t understand. I don’t want to delve into yet another Flat Earth model, I just want to have the questions answered from the general FE perspective.
In regards to the 3rd point - the pic is related.
https://m.imgur.com/scj8iTW

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 10:25:27 AM »
I don’t understand. I don’t want to delve into yet another Flat Earth model, I just want to have the questions answered from the general FE perspective.
In regards to the 3rd point - the pic is related.
https://m.imgur.com/scj8iTW
Yes, two poles helps then.

If you don't want to learn an FE model, don't ask questions about FET.
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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 10:28:58 AM »
I don’t understand. I don’t want to delve into yet another Flat Earth model, I just want to have the questions answered from the general FE perspective.
In regards to the 3rd point - the pic is related.
https://m.imgur.com/scj8iTW
Yes, two poles helps then.

If you don't want to learn an FE model, don't ask questions about FET.

I haven’t met anyone supporting what seems to be your own system built ad hoc yet, so I want to discuss just the most popular model of Flat Earth.

And you know, if you don’t want to discuss the one-sided Flat Earth with me, you can always leave ;)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 10:34:28 AM by SirParsifal »

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 10:43:39 AM »
Also what exactly causes the Sun not to be able to be seen by a distant observer? Pic related.
https://m.imgur.com/XERV7aH

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 12:29:21 PM »
Something related to the Sun - phases of the moon. How would they work on Flat Earth? Someone seeing a full moon in Portugal would witness a quarter moon elsewhere, and that’s something that can’t happen, as everyone sees the moon the same.
Pic is related.
https://i.imgur.com/TXeWn3R.jpg

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 01:36:33 PM »
I don’t understand. I don’t want to delve into yet another Flat Earth model, I just want to have the questions answered from the general FE perspective.
In regards to the 3rd point - the pic is related.
https://m.imgur.com/scj8iTW
Yes, two poles helps then.

If you don't want to learn an FE model, don't ask questions about FET.

I haven’t met anyone supporting what seems to be your own system built ad hoc yet, so I want to discuss just the most popular model of Flat Earth.

And you know, if you don’t want to discuss the one-sided Flat Earth with me, you can always leave ;)

You asked something that was answered in the FAQ, and you don't want to learn FET. No one is going to bother giving the detailed answers to your spam of questions because everything you're doing indicates you don't care about the answers, you're just wasting our time. 
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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 01:39:01 PM »
“you're just wasting our time”
I’m not. You’re free to leave, buddy!

Cheers ;)

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 01:43:28 PM »
“you're just wasting our time”
I’m not. You’re free to leave, buddy!

Cheers ;)

Except I know how this goes. I've seen your roundie bs before. You'll spam us with questions, each of which needs a pretty long answer, and when no one bothers with all that given you've demonstrated several times over you aren't actually interested in learning (not reading the FAQ is always red flag one, ignoring answers given because they aren't in line with the FE model you want to argue against is another) then in a few days you or one of your ilk will pop by, point out FEers didn't answer, and claim victory based on that whining.

So no, I'm not letting you get away with it.

Look at how you even ignored most of my post.
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On the sister site if you want to talk.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 02:39:07 PM »
“you're just wasting our time”
I’m not. You’re free to leave, buddy!

Cheers ;)

Except I know how this goes. I've seen your roundie bs before. You'll spam us with questions, each of which needs a pretty long answer, and when no one bothers with all that given you've demonstrated several times over you aren't actually interested in learning (not reading the FAQ is always red flag one, ignoring answers given because they aren't in line with the FE model you want to argue against is another) then in a few days you or one of your ilk will pop by, point out FEers didn't answer, and claim victory based on that whining.

So no, I'm not letting you get away with it.

Look at how you even ignored most of my post.

It would be great if you published some information on which all thee claims you make are based. I and others have looked through your website and there is nothing there that goes anywhere close to explaining the claims you make regarding the sun, both its behaviour and composition. Its funny how every solar scientist on the planet disagrees with you. Can you explain?

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 02:40:20 PM »
“you're just wasting our time”
I’m not. You’re free to leave, buddy!

Cheers ;)

Except I know how this goes. I've seen your roundie bs before. You'll spam us with questions, each of which needs a pretty long answer, and when no one bothers with all that given you've demonstrated several times over you aren't actually interested in learning (not reading the FAQ is always red flag one, ignoring answers given because they aren't in line with the FE model you want to argue against is another) then in a few days you or one of your ilk will pop by, point out FEers didn't answer, and claim victory based on that whining.

So no, I'm not letting you get away with it.

Look at how you even ignored most of my post.

It would be great if you published some information on which all thee claims you make are based. I and others have looked through your website and there is nothing there that goes anywhere close to explaining the claims you make regarding the sun, both its behaviour and composition. Its funny how every solar scientist on the planet disagrees with you. Can you explain?
There is an entire section devoted to the evidence, as you know full well.
Your lyign is just tedious at this point. Keep on spamming, it's not clever, it's just irritating. Why do you roundies think being annoying can take the place of actually being smart?
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 03:21:34 PM »
“you're just wasting our time”
I’m not. You’re free to leave, buddy!

Cheers ;)

Except I know how this goes. I've seen your roundie bs before. You'll spam us with questions, each of which needs a pretty long answer, and when no one bothers with all that given you've demonstrated several times over you aren't actually interested in learning (not reading the FAQ is always red flag one, ignoring answers given because they aren't in line with the FE model you want to argue against is another) then in a few days you or one of your ilk will pop by, point out FEers didn't answer, and claim victory based on that whining.

So no, I'm not letting you get away with it.

Look at how you even ignored most of my post.

It would be great if you published some information on which all thee claims you make are based. I and others have looked through your website and there is nothing there that goes anywhere close to explaining the claims you make regarding the sun, both its behaviour and composition. Its funny how every solar scientist on the planet disagrees with you. Can you explain?
There is an entire section devoted to the evidence, as you know full well.
Your lyign is just tedious at this point. Keep on spamming, it's not clever, it's just irritating. Why do you roundies think being annoying can take the place of actually being smart?


OK, if you say so, post it here and people can decide if it constitutes as evidence.
The way you looked at the Space X launch proves you have a pretty high bar as far as evidence goes.
Space X builds a rocket, launches it, deploys what turns out to be a car, and then lands two of the boosters in full view of the world.
You say some stuff and expect people to swallow it with no evidence! I see some double standards here.
So publish your evidence so that we can employ the same critical scrutiny as you do as directed against Space X.
What do you have to lose? Just tell the world how you arrived at your claims.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 03:31:00 PM »
OK, if you say so, post it here and people can decide if it constitutes as evidence.
It's linked. If you're too lazy to click a link, I am not going to waste time on you. It's readily available and linked in every post I make.

Quote
The way you looked at the Space X launch proves you have a pretty high bar as far as evidence goes.
Space X builds a rocket, launches it, deploys what turns out to be a car, and then lands two of the boosters in full view of the world.
You say some stuff and expect people to swallow it with no evidence! I see some double standards here.
Look at that, trying to change the topic again.
And, of course, openly lying, as is well established at this point. The evidence exists, the evidence is linked to every time.
If I remember I used to have a little challenge. i was tired of you ignoring everything I said, so I asked you a simple question, a simple 'what is wrong with my evidence?' and you evaded it every single time. I'm sure I can search for the threads, if you want to bring them back?
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dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 04:28:39 PM »
OK, if you say so, post it here and people can decide if it constitutes as evidence.
It's linked. If you're too lazy to click a link, I am not going to waste time on you. It's readily available and linked in every post I make.

Quote
The way you looked at the Space X launch proves you have a pretty high bar as far as evidence goes.
Space X builds a rocket, launches it, deploys what turns out to be a car, and then lands two of the boosters in full view of the world.
You say some stuff and expect people to swallow it with no evidence! I see some double standards here.
Look at that, trying to change the topic again.
And, of course, openly lying, as is well established at this point. The evidence exists, the evidence is linked to every time.
If I remember I used to have a little challenge. i was tired of you ignoring everything I said, so I asked you a simple question, a simple 'what is wrong with my evidence?' and you evaded it every single time. I'm sure I can search for the threads, if you want to bring them back?

Not at all its called being consistent.
You quite often cry evidence, but when its levelled at you, you run several parsecs.

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rabinoz

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 08:17:23 PM »
I don’t understand. I don’t want to delve into yet another Flat Earth model, I just want to have the questions answered from the general FE perspective.
In regards to the 3rd point - the pic is related.
https://m.imgur.com/scj8iTW
If you "don’t want to delve into yet another Flat Earth model" and want an answer from "the general FE perspective" you've come to the wrong place!
It almost seems as if each flat earthed here has a different model.
Some of these models are in, Flat Earth General / Re: Is Science the new Religion ? « Message by rabinoz on May 27, 2017, 01:00:11 PM »

I agree that the observed motion and behaviour of the sun is an ultimate weakness of any flat earth model.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2018, 12:13:03 AM »
Tfw I got actual replies on the tfes forum and none here. Only whining of this Jrowe dude.

PS: the one dude who answered on tfes replied to the first two points as “unknown” lmao. That also makes me doubt jrowes claim that he has the answer.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2018, 04:56:39 AM »
Tfw I got actual replies on the tfes forum and none here. Only whining of this Jrowe dude.

PS: the one dude who answered on tfes replied to the first two points as “unknown” lmao. That also makes me doubt jrowes claim that he has the answer.

As I said, you're not looking for an answer, stop pretending that you are.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2018, 08:49:04 AM »
Tfw I got actual replies on the tfes forum and none here. Only whining of this Jrowe dude.

PS: the one dude who answered on tfes replied to the first two points as “unknown” lmao. That also makes me doubt jrowes claim that he has the answer.

As I said, you're not looking for an answer, stop pretending that you are.

Keep blabbering as I’m having actual discussions on the other forum.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2018, 10:19:53 AM »
“you're just wasting our time”
I’m not. You’re free to leave, buddy!

Cheers ;)

Except I know how this goes. I've seen your roundie bs before. You'll spam us with questions, each of which needs a pretty long answer, and when no one bothers with all that given you've demonstrated several times over you aren't actually interested in learning (not reading the FAQ is always red flag one, ignoring answers given because they aren't in line with the FE model you want to argue against is another) then in a few days you or one of your ilk will pop by, point out FEers didn't answer, and claim victory based on that whining.

So no, I'm not letting you get away with it.

Look at how you even ignored most of my post.

It would be great if you published some information on which all thee claims you make are based. I and others have looked through your website and there is nothing there that goes anywhere close to explaining the claims you make regarding the sun, both its behaviour and composition. Its funny how every solar scientist on the planet disagrees with you. Can you explain?
There is an entire section devoted to the evidence, as you know full well.
Your lyign is just tedious at this point. Keep on spamming, it's not clever, it's just irritating. Why do you roundies think being annoying can take the place of actually being smart?
I've read everything in your link, and whether you are too close to the issue to recognize how much is missing in your explanation of if you are just messing with people, I don't know.  Either way, your "evidence" consists of saying that your model predicts everything that the conventional model predicts, so all evidence for the conventional model is also evidence of DET.  You explain that your model is simpler because it consists of fewer assumptions, and conclude that it is, therefore, correct.

There's so much wrong with this reasoning process it's difficult to know where to begin, but I'll highlight the two major problems.  First, grouping the many myriad assumptions that are required to make DET work under one giant assumption doesn't mean you get to claim a single assumption.  It just doesn't work that way.  Any assumption made that is required for the model is an assumption that needs to be acknowledged separately, even if it's more convenient for you to group them together to get a lower number.

Second, just claiming that all of the observational evidence that exists for a spherical Earth works in DET isn't the same as providing evidence for DET.  All that does is cancel counterarguments made against DET.  When people want to see evidence, we want to see some physical observation that demonstrates that stars are chunks of incandescent metal in an aetheric whirlpool AND NOT giant balls of hydrogen.  Just because you believe that stars COULD be explained by your DET model doesn't mean you have evidence that differentiates DET from the paradigm. 

Until you have a pile of evidence that gives support for all the assumptions you're making to prop up the model, AND a pile of evidence that shows why DET explains things better than the current paradigm all you really have is a setting for a unique sci-fi story.

I know you're going to just dismiss me as a troll and probably get all hostile, but, from someone who read what you link, the reality is you don't have nearly as much as you think you do, and I would advise you to start listening to your "trolls" and see if their criticisms can help you build a better model.  I'm pretty certain that the paradigm is right in this case, but I will acknowledge there is plenty about the universe that isn't understood, and maybe there is an unusual model that will tie up some loose ends.  There is no chance you will find that model if you're unwilling to see the flaws in what you produce and you dismiss anyone who points them out. 


Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2018, 12:09:12 PM »
OK, if you say so, post it here and people can decide if it constitutes as evidence.
It's linked. If you're too lazy to click a link, I am not going to waste time on you. It's readily available and linked in every post I make.

Quote
The way you looked at the Space X launch proves you have a pretty high bar as far as evidence goes.
Space X builds a rocket, launches it, deploys what turns out to be a car, and then lands two of the boosters in full view of the world.
You say some stuff and expect people to swallow it with no evidence! I see some double standards here.
Look at that, trying to change the topic again.
And, of course, openly lying, as is well established at this point. The evidence exists, the evidence is linked to every time.
If I remember I used to have a little challenge. i was tired of you ignoring everything I said, so I asked you a simple question, a simple 'what is wrong with my evidence?' and you evaded it every single time. I'm sure I can search for the threads, if you want to bring them back?
I've looked at your evidence section and I have to agree with the other poster, I didn't see any actual evidence.
Basically you claim that all observation fits your model, which you adjust according to observations.
You then claim that yours has fewer assumptions so is more likely to be correct.  I'll come back to that.
You then give possible experiments which you have not done.
I don't really consider any of that evidence for DET given that observations are more easily explained by current round earth understanding.
If you had some observations that fit det but not globe earth, that would be evidence.
I also don't see fewer assumptions when you step back and look at it.
You are assuming a massive conspiracy around space flight for one thing.  That's a pretty big one.

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rabinoz

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 07:11:59 PM »
So would it be fair to say that there are no answers in the Wiki, the FAQ or from any flat earther prepared to reply to the questions:
Could someone explain to me how the Sun works in the Flat Earth model?

Namely:
1. How is it able to be suspended 5000 kilometers above the giant 40 thousand kilometer long disc and why does it rotate? It obviously doesn’t comply with the laws of gravity, so what force causes it to behave so weirdly?

2. How is a ball that is 50 kilometers in diameter able to produce so much thermonuclear energy to not only light so much territory of Earth but also keep burning? How does it produce so much energy? How does it not run out of “fuel”?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
That’s all. I hope the discussion will be polite and civil. I just want to know what Flat Earth explanation could be behind all this.
I have often wondered those things and more.

One of these is the way that the solar radiance varies during the day and this is very well documented because of its relevance to solar power generation.
On the Globe the solar radiance in a horizontal surface just varies as the sine of the sun's elevation angle, as in.

Solar Irradiance (Variation Over a Day)
On the flat earth, however, there is an extra inverse distance squared term, which can fall to around one-tenth.

But, flat-earthers don't like sums, so I'd better not say more.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2018, 11:31:36 AM »
Literally no one proposed a solution to any problems posed by me. Had no one previously ever even thought of it?

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2018, 12:57:54 PM »
Tfw I got actual replies on the tfes forum and none here. Only whining of this Jrowe dude.

PS: the one dude who answered on tfes replied to the first two points as “unknown” lmao. That also makes me doubt jrowes claim that he has the answer.

As I said, you're not looking for an answer, stop pretending that you are.


You really do have a problem answering questions, regardless of whose doing the asking.

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JackBlack

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2018, 01:05:59 PM »
Literally no one proposed a solution to any problems posed by me. Had no one previously ever even thought of it?
Numerous people have thought of these problems before.
The problem is the FEers start with the assumption Earth is flat and ignore/reject parts of reality that show that to be wrong.
They will try to manipulate their models to make them match, but none have come close to solving these problems. Instead all they can do is shift them around.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2018, 04:57:24 PM »
I'm the most respected REST guy on this forum so no one will debate these points with me because they know I'll use logic to justify my claims.

Some FET guys pretend their model answers these questions but never to my satisfaction.

Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2018, 02:21:59 PM »
I got used to flat earthers being know-it-all’s. All the buzzwords, sometimes math, even perspective. Where the phony arguments even at?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 09:21:18 AM by SirParsifal »

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rabinoz

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Re: A few questions about the Sun from a novice
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2018, 03:12:13 PM »
I'm the most respected REST guy on this forum so no one will debate these points with me because they know I'll use logic to justify my claims.
You should get on well with Shifter! He knows everything. We have that on (almost) the highest authority.
Shifter claims to be one rung below God, so presumably above the Archangels, so Shifter should know.

And with Sandokhan:
But I am an expert.

;D ::) Yes, we already know that you are a "Self-made man who loves nothing more than worshipping his maker".  ::) ;D

But please, you don't have to tell us mere mortals so often.


Quote from: DavidOrJohn
Some FET guys pretend their model answers these questions but never to my satisfaction.