Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox

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Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« on: February 07, 2018, 06:01:48 PM »
Let there is a triplet of A, B, and C on an asteroid initially. A stays on an asteroid while B and C set out for a long space journey with high speed (say 0.5c and 0.9c) at the same time in the same direction relative to A. Assume each 10 years old at the time of departure. B and C are gone for 60 years relative to A. Afterward, B and C return home at the same time and reunited with A on an asteroid.

What would be the age of A relative to B and C?
What would be the age of B relative to C and A?
What would be the age of C relative to A and B?


Since A, B and C can have only one physical appearance and one age. Thus who would be right on the physical appearance w.r.t their respective time of one another especially that of A?

Make it more simple: Let there are 96 clone brothers. Clone #96 stays on an asteroid while the rest take off at the same time with the following speeds relative to Clown#96, in the same direction for their long synchronized space journey. Assume each 10 years old at the time of departure. All 95 clones gone for 60 years relative to clone 96. Afterward, 1 to 95 return home at the same time and reunited with clone 96 on an asteroid.

Speed of clone #1 is 0.01c , #2 is 0.02c, #3 is 0.03c, #4 is 0.04 c, ..., #10 is 0.1c, ......, #20 is 0.2c, ......, #90 is 0.9c, ....,#95 is 0.95c

Each clone can have only one age and one physical appearance therefore who would be right on the physical appearance of #96 clone?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 04:23:34 PM by E E K »

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rabinoz

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 06:31:25 PM »
Let there is a triplet of A, B, and C on an asteroid initially. A stays on an asteroid while B and C set out for a long space journey with high speed (say 0.5c and 0.9c) at the same time in the same direction relative to A. Assume each 10 years old at the time of departure. B and C are gone for 60 years relative to A. Afterward, B and C return home at the same time and reunited with A on an asteroid.

What would be the age of A relative to B and C?
What would be the age of B relative to C and A?
What would be the age of C relative to A and B?

Since each person can have only one physical appearance and one age. Thus who would be right?

Make it more simple: Let there are 96 clone brothers. Clone #96 stays on an asteroid while the rest take off at the same time with the following speeds relative to Clown#96, in the same direction for their long synchronized space journey. Assume each 10 years old at the time of departure. All 95 clones gone for 60 years relative to clone 96. Afterward, 1 to 95 return home at the same time and reunited with clone 96 on an asteroid.

Speed of clone #1 is 0.01c , #2 is 0.02c, #3 is 0.03c, #4 is 0.04 c, ..., #10 is 0.1c, ......, #20 is 0.2c, ......, #90 is 0.9c, ....,#95 is 0.95c

Each clone can have only one age and one physical appearance therefore who would be right on the age as well as the physical appearance of #96 clone?
If you want all those worked out, go do it yourself.
You might also look up the numerous references to the answer to the so-called "Twin paradox".

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 06:53:41 PM »
Let there is a triplet of A, B, and C on an asteroid initially. A stays on an asteroid while B and C set out for a long space journey with high speed (say 0.5c and 0.9c) at the same time in the same direction relative to A. Assume each 10 years old at the time of departure. B and C are gone for 60 years relative to A. Afterward, B and C return home at the same time and reunited with A on an asteroid.

What would be the age of A relative to B and C?
What would be the age of B relative to C and A?
What would be the age of C relative to A and B?


For person c, relative to a they are gone for 60 years
This works out to be a time dilation factor of 2.29
So for person c only 60/2.29 years have passed ~ 26 years

Person b has a time dilation factor of 1.15
so 60 / 1.15 ~ 51 years has passed

Person A is 70,
Person B is 61,
Person C is 36

See here and here
http://www.emc2-explained.info/Dilation-Calc/#.Wnu7TZP1V24
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Relativ/tdil.html


Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 01:10:09 AM »
I mean roughly how old look like w.r.t physical appearance - No need to calculate exact age - Sorry it was not clear

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rabinoz

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 04:21:45 AM »
I mean roughly how old look like w.r.t physical appearance - No need to calculate exact age - Sorry it was not clear
I imagine that they would look exactly they way one would expect for their respective ages.
But since it is and, as far as we know now, can be nothing but a "thought experiment" who knows?

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 04:39:25 AM »
But since it is and, as far as we know now, can be nothing but a "thought experiment" who knows?


Fun fact - Gps satellites have to account for time dilation and the difference in the curvature of space time due to their high orbits which means their clocks actually tick faster by about 38 microseconds per day

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1061/why-does-gps-depend-on-relativity

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 05:29:29 AM »
Since each person can have only one physical appearance and one age. Thus who would be right?
You're aware that twins, triplets, and even 96 clones are all separate individuals right?  Sharing an identical genome doesn't mean you share an identity.  The person not moving would be oldest at the reunion, and the person who traveled fastest would be the youngest.  They would all be right for their own individual life experiences. 

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 02:34:12 PM »
We are not going to do your homework for you!

Anyway, moving to TS&AS.

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 04:27:20 AM »
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We are not going to do your homework for you!

I just requested for comments in my second post, not for calculation so how come you considered this a homework.

It's just a question from spherical earthers how do they defend the physical appearance of a person who stayed on earth relative to fast speed travelers.

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sokarul

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2018, 02:14:29 PM »
The "fast speed travelers" had to accelerate. While they accelerate they feel a force. This is how me know who is stationary and who is a "fast speed traveler".
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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2018, 02:35:40 PM »
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The "fast speed travelers" had to accelerate. While they accelerate they feel a force. This is how me know who is stationary and who is a "fast speed traveler".

Change in speed only happens during take-off and landing and or if they stay for taking a break on another asteroid(s). So how long does it take in such a modern age especially during thought experiment?

Would a couple of seconds/minutes make a difference if you deduct from 60 years?

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sokarul

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 06:07:40 PM »
Indeed it doesn’t matter how quickly the person accelerates. One a change in velocity occurs you know who is moving relative to the other.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2018, 06:40:02 PM »
Indeed it doesn’t matter how quickly the person accelerates. One a change in velocity occurs you know who is moving relative to the other.

Standing on a sidewalk @ 1g is different than accelerating @ 1g?

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2018, 07:34:05 PM »
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Indeed it doesn’t matter how quickly the person accelerates. One a change in velocity occurs you know who is moving relative to the other.

They can pass by the stationary observer after getting their respective velocity - is it too difficult to imagine in thought experiment

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sokarul

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 07:39:43 PM »
Indeed it doesn’t matter how quickly the person accelerates. Once a change in velocity occurs you know who is moving relative to the other.

Standing on a sidewalk @ 1g is different than accelerating @ 1g?
Those are non inertial frames of reference. Please note this.
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sokarul

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 07:40:44 PM »
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Indeed it doesn’t matter how quickly the person accelerates. One a change in velocity occurs you know who is moving relative to the other.

They can pass by the stationary observer after getting their respective velocity - is it too difficult to imagine in thought experiment
I'm telling you the answer to the twin paradox. If you don't like it then you can go to school and learn it there.
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Heiwa

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2018, 10:15:59 PM »
The problem with going in space at 0.9c speed for 60 years is that you travel only 54 light years in that time and will not arrive at the Black Hole - http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm#BH - at the center of our Milky Way universe, where you will turn and head back. That Black Hole is 26 000 light years away.
Anyway, you will be 60 years older then and can start collect pension and retire. Why anyone would travel around in space is a mystery to me. There is nothing there. Not even God!
I know there are people suggesting God hides in this Black Hole but I assume it is standard American nonsense like this clown driving around in a red electric car in space.

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2018, 06:33:33 PM »
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Standing on a sidewalk @ 1g is different than accelerating @ 1g?

Both B and C can use a separate rail car for their journey on a very big asteroid. A stays at home while B and C set out with high speed (say 0.5c and 0.9c) in their respective rail cars at the same time in the same direction relative to A. They attain their respective speed right after their departure. Assume each 10 years old at the time of departure. After 3o years relative to A, both B and C turn around and gain their respective speed in the same manner after taking a very short stop/ break (say 1 hr).  Afterwards, B and C return home at the same time and reunited with A.

Since A has only one physical appearance, therefore, physical appearance of A  will be same for both B and C – IMPOV

Wasn't the airplane (in which an atomic clock was sent for time dilation purpose) in acceleration mode when flying parallel to the curvature of the earth?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 07:18:42 PM by E E K »

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2018, 01:34:23 PM »
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Standing on a sidewalk @ 1g is different than accelerating @ 1g?

Both B and C can use a separate rail car for their journey on a very big asteroid. A stays at home while B and C set out with high speed (say 0.5c and 0.9c) in their respective rail cars at the same time in the same direction relative to A. They attain their respective speed right after their departure. Assume each 10 years old at the time of departure. After 3o years relative to A, both B and C turn around and gain their respective speed in the same manner after taking a very short stop/ break (say 1 hr).  Afterwards, B and C return home at the same time and reunited with A.

Since A has only one physical appearance, therefore, physical appearance of A  will be same for both B and C – IMPOV

Wasn't the airplane (in which an atomic clock was sent for time dilation purpose) in acceleration mode when flying parallel to the curvature of the earth?

A would look oldest, b would look a little younger and c would look a lot younger

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 10:25:48 PM »
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A would look oldest, b would look a little younger and c would look a lot younger

Does it address to what I said 

Since A has only one physical appearance, therefore, physical appearance of A  will be same for both B and C – IMPOV - so what is your opinion?.  Similarly,

Wasn't the airplane (in which an atomic clock was sent for time dilation purpose) in acceleration mode when flying parallel to the curvature of the earth?

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Heiwa

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 09:14:31 AM »
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A would look oldest, b would look a little younger and c would look a lot younger

Does it address to what I said 

Since A has only one physical appearance, therefore, physical appearance of A  will be same for both B and C – IMPOV - so what is your opinion?.  Similarly,

Wasn't the airplane (in which an atomic clock was sent for time dilation purpose) in acceleration mode when flying parallel to the curvature of the earth?
Are you suggesting that people flying in air planes on Earth at ~0,0000003c get younger doing so ... regardless of the direction?

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 11:19:09 AM »
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Are you suggesting that people flying in air planes on Earth at ~0,0000003c get younger doing so ... regardless of the direction?
No, if "A" looks the same for both "B" and "C" then it dismisses time dilation

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Heiwa

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Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 11:29:19 AM »
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Are you suggesting that people flying in air planes on Earth at ~0,0000003c get younger doing so ... regardless of the direction?
No, if "A" looks the same for both "B" and "C" then it dismisses time dilation
Why don't you reply to my question?

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 11:34:18 AM »
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Why don't you reply to my question?

NO

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 11:35:12 AM »
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Why don't you reply to my question?
I mean they will age the same
Edit: Also, the air plane is in acceleration mode as it flys parallel to the curvature of earth
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:43:07 AM by E E K »

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 05:54:20 PM »
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A would look oldest, b would look a little younger and c would look a lot younger

Does it address to what I said 

Since A has only one physical appearance, therefore, physical appearance of A  will be same for both B and C – IMPOV - so what is your opinion?.  Similarly,

Wasn't the airplane (in which an atomic clock was sent for time dilation purpose) in acceleration mode when flying parallel to the curvature of the earth?

Person A, B and C are three distinct people, they don't have the same physical appearance nor will they age the same

Person A would age 60 years and look 60 years older, person B would age ~50ish years and look 50ish years older, person C would age ~25 years and look 25 years older

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 07:10:12 PM »
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Person A, B and C are three distinct people, they don't have the same physical appearance nor will they age the same

Person A would age 60 years and look 60 years older, person B would age ~50ish years and look 50ish years older, person C would age ~25 years and look 25 years older

Would "A" aged 60 years and look 60 years older relative to himself and "B" and "C" as well?

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 07:24:48 PM »
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Person A, B and C are three distinct people, they don't have the same physical appearance nor will they age the same

Person A would age 60 years and look 60 years older, person B would age ~50ish years and look 50ish years older, person C would age ~25 years and look 25 years older

Would "A" aged 60 years and look 60 years older relative to himself and "B" and "C" as well?


I'm sorry but I dont understand your question


From person A's perspective, he is the oldest, B is a little younger and C is youngest

From person B's perspective, A is the oldest, c is a lot younger

From person C's persepctive, both A and B have aged a lot more than he has

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 07:36:35 PM »
Here was my original question

Since A has only one physical appearance, therefore, physical appearance of A  will be same for both B and C – IMPOV - so what is your opinion?.  Similarly,

Wasn't the airplane (in which an atomic clock was sent for time dilation purpose) in acceleration mode when flying parallel to the curvature of the earth?

Re: Triplet (or more) paradox vs Twin paradox
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 07:41:49 PM »
Since A has only one physical appearance, therefore, physical appearance of A  will be same for both B and C – IMPOV - so what is your opinion?. 

I don't understand what you are saying here

What is IMPOV?

Why would the physical appearance of B and C be linked in any way to A?