SpaceX: The Latest

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Shifter

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #330 on: February 18, 2018, 05:05:32 PM »
By the time we are done with all the 'tests' we will have no resources left for the real thing. In the same way the British brought convicts to colonise Australia, we should do the same to colonise Mars. Yes, boohoo, an isolated trip to Mars can hurt psychological fee fees. Do you think it was any easier for people who sailed the seas back in the day? People on those ships on year long voyages would have been even more alone than if you sent people to Mars
Have you ever read anything on it or researched it.
Or do you, since you claim to be above the Archangels and just one rung below God, already know everything?
Here is a little review on the topic, Dirty Rockets, What's the environmental impact of going into space? By Nina Rastogi.

How many trips do you think it would take to get a million people to Mars, as per Elons goal?

The odd trip, the damage can be repaired. But the required frequency to get a million people to Mars will be another 'CFC' like scourge on our ozone

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Shifter

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #331 on: February 18, 2018, 05:06:39 PM »
Please dont act like you know anything about chemistry ever again.


What was your problem with what I said?

Not too much. It’s kind of weird to say kerosene exhaust creates NOx. Nitrogen shouldn’t  be found in kerosene.  NOx is obviously former from the nitrogen and oxygen in the air coming together while other combustion is taken place. And chlorine when in the molecule CFC can be dangerous to the ozone. I don’t really think rockets use it make that but maybe they do.

It’s more just you shouldn’t be talking about it.

I talk about whatever I want, when I want. Too bad for you

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sokarul

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #332 on: February 18, 2018, 05:11:52 PM »
Ok, terrific. People will be around to call you out when you are wrong. Better start making excuses now.
Sokarul

ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

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markjo

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #333 on: February 18, 2018, 05:33:53 PM »
How many trips do you think it would take to get a million people to Mars, as per Elons goal?
When did Elon say that he wanted to take a million people to Mars?

Or do you not understand that a significant percentage of his planned million person colony would would be born on Mars instead of transported there?
He estimated that the first colonists could begin setting out in a decade, and said it would take between 40 and 100 years to ship enough people over to Mars to populate a city.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 05:35:38 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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rabinoz

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #334 on: February 18, 2018, 05:35:10 PM »
By the time we are done with all the 'tests' we will have no resources left for the real thing. In the same way the British brought convicts to colonise Australia, we should do the same to colonise Mars. Yes, boohoo, an isolated trip to Mars can hurt psychological fee fees. Do you think it was any easier for people who sailed the seas back in the day? People on those ships on year long voyages would have been even more alone than if you sent people to Mars
Have you ever read anything on it or researched it.
Or do you, since you claim to be above the Archangels and just one rung below God, already know everything?
Here is a little review on the topic, Dirty Rockets, What's the environmental impact of going into space? By Nina Rastogi.

How many trips do you think it would take to get a million people to Mars, as per Elons goal?

The odd trip, the damage can be repaired. But the required frequency to get a million people to Mars will be another 'CFC' like scourge on our ozone
I've got to agree there,  but personally, I think that any idea of moving millions off-planet is simply science fiction and in my opinion, just isn't going to happen.

That is unless some other form of propulsion than chemical rockets is developed.
Ionic propulsion has a far better "Specific Impulse" than chemical rockets, but as yet nothing can approach the chemical rockets for the brute force thrust needed for vertical launch.

Enough rocket science!

The most we might see is "seed colonies" of maybe hundreds, but that's so far in the future, that it may as well be science fiction.

Let's see if self-sufficient colonies on say, the moon, can work first, though there are probably more resources on Mars.

Maybe, I'm not far-sighted enough.
As for the earth, either the population is controlled voluntarily or it will happen catastrophically, either way, I won't be here.
Good luck!

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Twerp

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #335 on: February 18, 2018, 05:45:03 PM »
By the time we are done with all the 'tests' we will have no resources left for the real thing. In the same way the British brought convicts to colonise Australia, we should do the same to colonise Mars. Yes, boohoo, an isolated trip to Mars can hurt psychological fee fees. Do you think it was any easier for people who sailed the seas back in the day? People on those ships on year long voyages would have been even more alone than if you sent people to Mars
Have you ever read anything on it or researched it.
Or do you, since you claim to be above the Archangels and just one rung below God, already know everything?
Here is a little review on the topic, Dirty Rockets, What's the environmental impact of going into space? By Nina Rastogi.

How many trips do you think it would take to get a million people to Mars, as per Elons goal?

The odd trip, the damage can be repaired. But the required frequency to get a million people to Mars will be another 'CFC' like scourge on our ozone
I've got to agree there,  but personally, I think that any idea of moving millions off-planet is simply science fiction and in my opinion, just isn't going to happen.

That is unless some other form of propulsion than chemical rockets is developed.
Ionic propulsion has a far better "Specific Impulse" than chemical rockets, but as yet nothing can approach the chemical rockets for the brute force thrust needed for vertical launch.

Enough rocket science!

The most we might see is "seed colonies" of maybe hundreds, but that's so far in the future, that it may as well be science fiction.

Let's see if self-sufficient colonies on say, the moon, can work first, though there are probably more resources on Mars.

Maybe, I'm not far-sighted enough.
As for the earth, either the population is controlled voluntarily or it will happen catastrophically, either way, I won't be here.
Good luck!

An EM drive?

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #336 on: February 18, 2018, 05:59:42 PM »
I've got to agree there,  but personally, I think that any idea of moving millions off-planet is simply science fiction and in my opinion, just isn't going to happen.

I dont think we humans will colonise space in an orderly fashion.

First we get cheap launches to space, this is the biggest step.
This allows for tourism, and larger cheap satellites.
As a result of this, we may end up with space hotels and lot more satellites in space.
Suddenly you need services, such as commercial water and food refining/ recycling depots in space which requires more people up there, but is cheaper than launching new stuff up every time.
Maybe there forms a business case to service satellites, this requires more people.
Someone figures out how to refine mined resources up there, more people.

Before you know it, there are hundreds - thousands of people up there, just doing day to day stuff.
This is all without colonisation efforts.

The most we might see is "seed colonies" of maybe hundreds, but that's so far in the future, that it may as well be science fiction.

Let's see if self-sufficient colonies on say, the moon, can work first, though there are probably more resources on Mars.

Maybe, I'm not far-sighted enough.
As for the earth, either the population is controlled voluntarily or it will happen catastrophically, either way, I won't be here.
Good luck!
There will never be permanent colonisation unless there is
a) a business case to send people there.
b) once there people are there (Moon, Mars or anywhere) they need to be able to sustain themselves without constantly drawing resources from earth, within a few years (20 or so) of arriving.

I think both conditions are not too far away.

Colonisation on earth happened for the same reasons.
 
Oh, and Military. If there is a military advantage of having a base up in space/moon/mars. Then suddenly colonisation speeds up. Those bases need a lot of support, and China is looking to push for Moon bases sooner than most will realise

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #337 on: February 18, 2018, 06:01:10 PM »
An EM drive?

Dont talk about the EM Drive, I was prepared to suspend my believe in Physics for that thing. It betrayed us all.

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markjo

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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #339 on: February 18, 2018, 06:09:00 PM »
Or a space elevator?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/people-are-still-trying-build-space-elevator-180957877/

The only way to actually build a space elevator is to already have the thousands of tonnes of material up in space, and then to lower it down to earth. I dont think we will see anything like this soon . . . or ever . . ?

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markjo

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #340 on: February 18, 2018, 06:19:54 PM »
I dont think we will see anything like this soon . . . or ever . . ?
Meh.  That's what they said about the cruise basselope.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Twerp

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #341 on: February 18, 2018, 06:28:06 PM »
Or a space elevator?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/people-are-still-trying-build-space-elevator-180957877/

The only way to actually build a space elevator is to already have the thousands of tonnes of material up in space, and then to lower it down to earth. I dont think we will see anything like this soon . . . or ever . . ?

Launch a satellite with enough carbon fiber cable and a small rocket engine. Once in geosynchronous orbit, the rocket engine leaves the satellite with carbon fiber attached and flies toward earth. Once it reaches earth fasten it to a platform and mount your elevator to it. Easy peasy.

Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #342 on: February 18, 2018, 06:48:44 PM »
Carbon is not the only thing that destroys our atmosphere. (I use it because everyone uses it as a scale or sorts). Methane is much more devastating for example. Or NOX from planes is also much worse

What do NOx emissions from airplane engines, which produce energy by combustion of hydrocarbons and the oxygen from air in the presence of nitrogen (which is about 80% of air) have to do rocket engines which use combustion of Kerosene (which is a hydrocarbon) and pure oxygen (but no nitrogen)?

Why bring methane into the conversation at all? Methane is not contained in rocket exhaust.

I was just saying that just because the emissions are not 'CO2' doesn't mean it's not harmful for our environment

That's fine. What's your opinion on water vapor. Liquid-fuel rockets emit almost entirely CO2 (carbon dioxide) and H2O (water). Water vapor is an effective greenhouse gas, yet, you seem to ignore it.

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Rocket launches as they become more frequent will start having a meaningful impact on our ozone layer

Details, please...

Depending on the type of fuel (for example solid) it uses chlorine which is devastating to Ozone, and kerosene exhaust forms nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide, both of which react with ozone in the atmosphere.

Details, please...

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Its not as bad as the space agencies solid fuel, but if Elon wants to send a million people to Mars in quick succession, the cumulative impact could mean that we will really need that extra planet to live on because we fudged this one up getting there

A rockets exhaust in the upper atmosphere where oxygen is less abundant can also form black carbon

Isn't that kinda a big part of the difference between a rocket and a jet? Rockets bring their own oxidizer instead of using air, so abundance (or lack) of atmospheric oxygen doesn't affect the chemical reaction at all.

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so launching a car into space for shits and giggles is not a responsible use for a finite fuel resource

It was a test flight. If it wasn't the car, it would have been an inert mass. That car was more expensive than an inert mass, but it obviously worth the extra cost for the publicity it brought both Tesla and SpaceX. Consider all the electrons that have been spilled on this forum alone!

By the time we are done with all the 'tests' we will have no resources left for the real thing.

Lol. We aren't going to use up all the kerosene and available oxygen in test flights. Not by a long shot.

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In the same way the British brought convicts to colonise Australia, we should do the same to colonise Mars. Yes, boohoo, an isolated trip to Mars can hurt psychological fee fees. Do you think it was any easier for people who sailed the seas back in the day? People on those ships on year long voyages would have been even more alone than if you sent people to Mars

There were a lot of things done in the 18th and 19th centuries that, in retrospect, do not seem like such good things now, like widespread acceptance of chattel slavery. Not to mention that, even today, it would be a bit more expensive and complicated to send someone to Mars than it was to transport someone to Australia from England 200 years ago. For one thing, they didn't have to carry the oxygen they needed, and it was already known that crops, livestock, and available resources could make the colony self-sustaining.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #343 on: February 18, 2018, 07:33:32 PM »
Carbon is not the only thing that destroys our atmosphere. (I use it because everyone uses it as a scale or sorts). Methane is much more devastating for example. Or NOX from planes is also much worse

What do NOx emissions from airplane engines, which produce energy by combustion of hydrocarbons and the oxygen from air in the presence of nitrogen (which is about 80% of air) have to do rocket engines which use combustion of Kerosene (which is a hydrocarbon) and pure oxygen (but no nitrogen)?

Why bring methane into the conversation at all? Methane is not contained in rocket exhaust.

I was just saying that just because the emissions are not 'CO2' doesn't mean it's not harmful for our environment

Rocket launches as they become more frequent will start having a meaningful impact on our ozone layer

Details, please...

Depending on the type of fuel (for example solid) it uses chlorine which is devastating to Ozone, and kerosene exhaust forms nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide, both of which react with ozone in the atmosphere. Its not as bad as the space agencies solid fuel, but if Elon wants to send a million people to Mars in quick succession, the cumulative impact could mean that we will really need that extra planet to live on because we fudged this one up getting there

A rockets exhaust in the upper atmosphere where oxygen is less abundant can also form black carbon


so launching a car into space for shits and giggles is not a responsible use for a finite fuel resource

It was a test flight. If it wasn't the car, it would have been an inert mass. That car was more expensive than an inert mass, but it obviously worth the extra cost for the publicity it brought both Tesla and SpaceX. Consider all the electrons that have been spilled on this forum alone!

By the time we are done with all the 'tests' we will have no resources left for the real thing. In the same way the British brought convicts to colonise Australia, we should do the same to colonise Mars. Yes, boohoo, an isolated trip to Mars can hurt psychological fee fees. Do you think it was any easier for people who sailed the seas back in the day? People on those ships on year long voyages would have been even more alone than if you sent people to Mars
Do you have any evidence at all that these tests will use up all of our resources or are you just blindly speculating?

Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #344 on: February 18, 2018, 08:56:32 PM »
Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space. You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.

You're famous, Hoppy!  Vice quoted you in an article called Flat Earthers Are Pissed at Elon Musk last week, I didn't see any mention of it on the forums yet.

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Twerp

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #345 on: February 18, 2018, 09:10:01 PM »
Awesome find! lol

Quote
“Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think (it) is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space,” reads one such message written by a user named Hoppy. “You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon Musk. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.”

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NAZA

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #346 on: February 18, 2018, 09:32:32 PM »
Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space. You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.

You're famous, Hoppy!  Vice quoted you in an article called Flat Earthers Are Pissed at Elon Musk last week, I didn't see any mention of it on the forums yet.

I bet his mother is very proud.

John Davis should resign and let hoppy take over.

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rvlvr

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #347 on: February 18, 2018, 09:36:37 PM »
Go, hoppy! You are now the poster boy of the movement!

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Shifter

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #348 on: February 18, 2018, 09:38:03 PM »
Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space. You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.

You're famous, Hoppy!  Vice quoted you in an article called Flat Earthers Are Pissed at Elon Musk last week, I didn't see any mention of it on the forums yet.

I bet his mother is very proud.

John Davis should resign and let hoppy take over.

Agreed. At least there is no denying hoppys conviction

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #349 on: February 18, 2018, 09:40:20 PM »
Launch a satellite with enough carbon fiber cable and a small rocket engine. Once in geosynchronous orbit, the rocket engine leaves the satellite with carbon fiber attached and flies toward earth. Once it reaches earth fasten it to a platform and mount your elevator to it. Easy peasy.

The issue is, once we have the technology and space ship/s that can launch the amount of carbon nano-tubes material into space, we probably wont need a space elevator. The mass of the cable will be in the 1000's of metric tones.
And last I checked (could be wrong) but carbon nano-tubes are just barely strong enough to handle the gravitational pull over the 35 000km required.

By the time we are done with all the 'tests' we will have no resources left for the real thing. In the same way the British brought convicts to colonise Australia, we should do the same to colonise Mars. Yes, boohoo, an isolated trip to Mars can hurt psychological fee fees. Do you think it was any easier for people who sailed the seas back in the day? People on those ships on year long voyages would have been even more alone than if you sent people to Mars
Do you have any evidence at all that these tests will use up all of our resources or are you just blindly speculating?

I dont know why the out right criticism for him pointing out pollution and limited resources?

Every human activity uses up resources, even sitting on your arse on these forums.
The great thing about space is, if we do it right, eventually we will be able to utilise the resources in our solar system. There is a lot more stuff up there than down here, and not endangered pandas are going to mind us mining it up there.

As for pollution. That is again an issue with all human activities. Over its a net cost/reward issue that is worth discussing.

Quick google and math

each falcon 9 launch creates 336,550 Kg of CO2
a small 2 bedroom cottage creates about 80 000kg of CO2
the total per-capita carbon footprint for an USA citizen is 19 000 000kg of CO2
the average USA home energy use is about 40 000kg CO2 every year

So relatively speaking, its not that much. But it add to the mix



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NAZA

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #350 on: February 18, 2018, 10:59:29 PM »
Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space. You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.

You're famous, Hoppy!  Vice quoted you in an article called Flat Earthers Are Pissed at Elon Musk last week, I didn't see any mention of it on the forums yet.

Not only hoppy, another of the the FES's finest minds was quoted...

Quote

There are users in the forum pushing back on the Flat Earthers, who are then disparaged by the true believers as “muskbots.” Like all online activity, most of the threads quickly turn into flame wars.

 

« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 11:01:32 PM by NAZA »

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dutchy

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #351 on: February 18, 2018, 11:40:34 PM »
Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space. You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.

You're famous, Hoppy!  Vice quoted you in an article called Flat Earthers Are Pissed at Elon Musk last week, I didn't see any mention of it on the forums yet.

Not only hoppy, another of the the FES's finest minds was quoted...

Quote

There are users in the forum pushing back on the Flat Earthers, who are then disparaged by the true believers as “muskbots.” Like all online activity, most of the threads quickly turn into flame wars.

 
Wow thanks (not) for linking to an article where superficiality reached a whole new level..
Will you stop spamming this forum with links that have absolutely zero content ?
Thanks in advance !

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rabinoz

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #352 on: February 19, 2018, 02:04:54 AM »
Wow thanks (not) for linking to an article where superficiality reached a whole new level..
Will you stop spamming this forum with links that have absolutely zero content ?
Thanks in advance !
And will you stop spamming this forum with posts that have totally negative content?

You complain about my "redicule" yet your main argument all along has been ridicule, with your stupid talk of "NASA fan-boy" or "Unbelievable that anyone really believes this spacy trash is real......." for anyone that doesn't agree with your ideas.

Talk about blatant hypocrisy.

But, I still find it strange that this new-fangled flat earth theory can't explain the simplest of observations like even the movement of the sun.

All you have is your silly negativism of trying to disprove space travel, which really is totally irrelevant.

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rvlvr

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #353 on: February 19, 2018, 02:12:57 AM »
I am not sure which is worse, faked space flight, or round Earth. This forum appears more anti-NASA than flat Earth.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #354 on: February 19, 2018, 02:47:01 AM »
I am not sure which is worse, faked space flight, or round Earth. This forum appears more anti-NASA than flat Earth.
This forum is actually just a place for a bunch of procrastinators to disagree with each other about virtually everything.  It has very little to do with the site name

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Here to laugh at you

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #355 on: February 19, 2018, 03:08:42 AM »
Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space. You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.

You're famous, Hoppy!  Vice quoted you in an article called Flat Earthers Are Pissed at Elon Musk last week, I didn't see any mention of it on the forums yet.

Not only hoppy, another of the the FES's finest minds was quoted...

Quote

There are users in the forum pushing back on the Flat Earthers, who are then disparaged by the true believers as “muskbots.” Like all online activity, most of the threads quickly turn into flame wars.

 
Wow thanks (not) for linking to an article where superficiality reached a whole new level..
Will you stop spamming this forum with links that have absolutely zero content ?
Thanks in advance !

Really??

The article contained plenty of content, taken directly from the mouths of you flat earthers!

I promise you, one day you will wake up, and realize how insane you sound!
Yes, you

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rabinoz

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #356 on: February 19, 2018, 03:09:34 AM »
I am not sure which is worse, faked space flight, or round Earth. This forum appears more anti-NASA than flat Earth.
That's all dutchy bothers about. He thinks that destroying NASA will suddenly make the earth flat.


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rabinoz

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #357 on: February 19, 2018, 03:20:26 AM »
I am not sure which is worse, faked space flight, or round Earth. This forum appears more anti-NASA than flat Earth.
This forum is actually just a place for a bunch of procrastinators to disagree with each other about virtually everything.  It has very little to do with the site name
That bothers me too but who is there to debate any "standard flat earth" theory?

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #358 on: February 19, 2018, 03:33:25 AM »
I am not sure which is worse, faked space flight, or round Earth. This forum appears more anti-NASA than flat Earth.
This forum is actually just a place for a bunch of procrastinators to disagree with each other about virtually everything.  It has very little to do with the site name
That bothers me too but who is there to debate any "standard flat earth" theory?

Very few actually. I spend some time here once every few months. This time round I can definitely see a drop of Flat Earth responses. Very few questions are posted in the Q&A page, this should be an indication that the movement is losing supporters. That should be where new comers go.

Instead we have a few strong supporters of Flat Earth.
A few Trolls and one or 2 others that come here to argue other conspiracies
And a bunch of round earth proponents looking for a fight

Its entertainment value is failing, I hope a new celebrity says something about the flat earth again soon.

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markjo

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Re: SpaceX: The Latest
« Reply #359 on: February 19, 2018, 06:38:43 AM »
Cursing Elon, gimme a break. We are laughing at you and the Elon fanboys. I think is funny that you boys believe that his Tesla is flying in space. You are so brainwashed that you believe anything NASA tells you, and now you believe Elon. It is pitiful and funny at the same time.

You're famous, Hoppy!  Vice quoted you in an article called Flat Earthers Are Pissed at Elon Musk last week, I didn't see any mention of it on the forums yet.

Not only hoppy, another of the the FES's finest minds was quoted...

Quote

There are users in the forum pushing back on the Flat Earthers, who are then disparaged by the true believers as “muskbots.” Like all online activity, most of the threads quickly turn into flame wars.

 
Wow thanks (not) for linking to an article where superficiality reached a whole new level..
Will you stop spamming this forum with links that have absolutely zero content ?
Thanks in advance !
He did link the article.  What did you think the blue text in his post was?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.