Black listed aircraft companies: Qantas, Lan, Latam, South African, Sichuan Airl

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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
SO Wise. I dont know when you took that screen shot. But there is a huge ass storm coming in from the West between Taiwan and China. If you are a plane you may want to avoid flying through a storm.


Clouds are an independent effect of the earth being round.

I gave the link. Click any of link contain identify of plane. Open any of past flights below. You'll see all planes are using the pathes not required.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=RCTP&destination=ZSPD

Because the map is wrong. No excuses reported you mentioned. Stop to produse LIES! You can not correct the lies by more lying!
Yes, weather is now part of the giant conspiracy.

Explain why 20% of the flights on that link are canceled?

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wise

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SO Wise. I dont know when you took that screen shot. But there is a huge ass storm coming in from the West between Taiwan and China. If you are a plane you may want to avoid flying through a storm.


Clouds are an independent effect of the earth being round.

I gave the link. Click any of link contain identify of plane. Open any of past flights below. You'll see all planes are using the pathes not required.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=RCTP&destination=ZSPD

Because the map is wrong. No excuses reported you mentioned. Stop to produse LIES! You can not correct the lies by more lying!
Yes, weather is now part of the giant conspiracy.

Explain why 20% of the flights on that link are canceled?

No you. You explain they have canceled by weather problems. And two questions:

- Are weather conditions are negative during 365 days a year? Are all days having a weather problem? Is not there a day with "PERFECT" weather?

And last: Is weather conditions affect negatively the route in other pathes like this one? Can you prove them by examining the weather statistics scientifically, or are you just making up these thoughts from your arse?


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Nope. You don't know what is the meaning of perfect.



I can show you tens of examples like this one. Why? Because the distance shown in the map is shorter than reality, no way but showing it by this way.

Distance shown in the map seems 963kms. In fact, it is about 1.300kms in my map, ie the true distance. You can see a straight line shown in my map about this flight. And this is the perfect I meant!
Wait, 2 questions Wise.

1 - Looking at flight paths like this, how did you think that flight routes would be a reliable manner to measure distance from different cities in the world?

2 - Do you know all the circumstances around why that particular route was chosen?
Have you considered any of the following
- the fact that different planes have different speeds.
- high altitude winds.
- any weather effects.
- city altitude.
- flight path.
- flight profile.
- holding patterns and airport traffic.
- no fly zones (of which China has many)

Unless you have calculated each flight after correcting for these things, there is zero chance your map has any accuracy.

A plane can easily fly for an additional 30-45 min in a holding pattern over a city throwing your map off by hundreds to thousands of km, especially in congested airports.

Anyway, on the globe map those 2 points are about 700km apart.

Such problems did not reported about those path. Your imagination vs reality. I chose the reality. Give up to defend lies. Nothing can explain hundreds of flights between Shangai and Taiwan constantly uses same extraordinary route. Stop to produse excuses for your wrong map.

You deliberately ignore the option of No-Fly zones that MaNaeSWolf pointed out as one of the reasons why this route is like this. See this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Strait to see that there is a No-Fly zone located in the mentioned route

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wise

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Nope. You don't know what is the meaning of perfect.



I can show you tens of examples like this one. Why? Because the distance shown in the map is shorter than reality, no way but showing it by this way.

Distance shown in the map seems 963kms. In fact, it is about 1.300kms in my map, ie the true distance. You can see a straight line shown in my map about this flight. And this is the perfect I meant!
Wait, 2 questions Wise.

1 - Looking at flight paths like this, how did you think that flight routes would be a reliable manner to measure distance from different cities in the world?

2 - Do you know all the circumstances around why that particular route was chosen?
Have you considered any of the following
- the fact that different planes have different speeds.
- high altitude winds.
- any weather effects.
- city altitude.
- flight path.
- flight profile.
- holding patterns and airport traffic.
- no fly zones (of which China has many)

Unless you have calculated each flight after correcting for these things, there is zero chance your map has any accuracy.

A plane can easily fly for an additional 30-45 min in a holding pattern over a city throwing your map off by hundreds to thousands of km, especially in congested airports.

Anyway, on the globe map those 2 points are about 700km apart.

Such problems did not reported about those path. Your imagination vs reality. I chose the reality. Give up to defend lies. Nothing can explain hundreds of flights between Shangai and Taiwan constantly uses same extraordinary route. Stop to produse excuses for your wrong map.

You deliberately ignore the option of No-Fly zones that MaNaeSWolf pointed out as one of the reasons why this route is like this. See this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Strait to see that there is a No-Fly zone located in the mentioned route

One of you are telling no fly zone but the other one is telling weather conditions. Which one? So you are denying the weather conditions are causing it, right? So wolfy may tell lie. But you are telling to support him. How is it possible in one hand you are denying his theory by offering another one and telling you are supporting him on the other hand. Whay a hypocrisy! Are you jackblack and rabinoz in fact?

Show the forbid flight zone and prove this path includes it by China national sources. Stop do empty! Make an agreement him, which you offer:

- Weather conditions?
- Forbidden zone?

Both? If so, prove! Stop to telling so and so!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 05:41:46 AM by wise »


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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
You chose one of the most controversial air routes in the world for your example.

Now, unless you have lived with your head under a rock for the last 20 years (I apologize if you actually did, it would not be too shocking) But Taiwan and China are not the best of friends.
There is a lot of tension between especially as Taiwan is constantly in fear of being invaded by China.

Because of this there are set flight routes between the two countries. Specifically flight route M503.
read more here https://amti.csis.org/primer-m503-civil-aviation-asia/

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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
One of you are telling no fly zone but the other one is telling weather conditions. Which one? So you are denying the weather conditions are causing it, right? So wolfy may tell lie. But you are telling to support him. How is it possible in one hand you are denying his theory by offering another one and telling you are supporting him on the other hand. Whay a hypocrisy! Are you jackblack and rabinoz in fact?

Show the forbid flight zone and prove this path includes it by China national sources. Stop do empty! Make an agreement him, which you offer:

- Weather conditions?
- Forbidden zone?

Both? If so, prove! Stop to telling so and so!

I just provided links of the No Fly Zone above.
But it does not matter, it could be both, or it could be one. The results would be the same.

Stop deflecting.

Here is a list off al no-fly zones in the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibited_airspace I think that you find some more flights that use a different route then you think

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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
Here is a list off al no-fly zones in the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibited_airspace I think that you find some more flights that use a different route then you think
This list is very incomplete.
It does not include my country, South Africa (which has many no fly areas)
North Korea
Iran
Iraq
India
China

Its basically the tip of the iceberg list.

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frenat

  • 3608
Here is a list off al no-fly zones in the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibited_airspace I think that you find some more flights that use a different route then you think
This list is very incomplete.
It does not include my country, South Africa (which has many no fly areas)
North Korea
Iran
Iraq
India
China

Its basically the tip of the iceberg list.
It isn't even complete for the countries it does have. Prohibited airspace is just part of it. There are many restricted and other airspaces used for training that they routinely route civilian traffic around. But for some of that airspace (like the Warning areas over the gulf of Mexico) if it is not in use then they will open it up temporarily.

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Crutchwater

  • 2151
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
How do millions of people get where they're going, every day, using the established globe maps?

How many would get where they're going using the "wise map"?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Stash

  • 6339
Nope. You don't know what is the meaning of perfect.



I can show you tens of examples like this one. Why? Because the distance shown in the map is shorter than reality, no way but showing it by this way.

Distance shown in the map seems 963kms. In fact, it is about 1.300kms in my map, ie the true distance. You can see a straight line shown in my map about this flight. And this is the perfect I meant!
Wait, 2 questions Wise.

1 - Looking at flight paths like this, how did you think that flight routes would be a reliable manner to measure distance from different cities in the world?

2 - Do you know all the circumstances around why that particular route was chosen?
Have you considered any of the following
- the fact that different planes have different speeds.
- high altitude winds.
- any weather effects.
- city altitude.
- flight path.
- flight profile.
- holding patterns and airport traffic.
- no fly zones (of which China has many)

Unless you have calculated each flight after correcting for these things, there is zero chance your map has any accuracy.

A plane can easily fly for an additional 30-45 min in a holding pattern over a city throwing your map off by hundreds to thousands of km, especially in congested airports.

Anyway, on the globe map those 2 points are about 700km apart.

Such problems did not reported about those path. Your imagination vs reality. I chose the reality. Give up to defend lies. Nothing can explain hundreds of flights between Shangai and Taiwan constantly uses same extraordinary route. Stop to produse excuses for your wrong map.

You deliberately ignore the option of No-Fly zones that MaNaeSWolf pointed out as one of the reasons why this route is like this. See this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Strait to see that there is a No-Fly zone located in the mentioned route

One of you are telling no fly zone but the other one is telling weather conditions. Which one? So you are denying the weather conditions are causing it, right? So wolfy may tell lie. But you are telling to support him. How is it possible in one hand you are denying his theory by offering another one and telling you are supporting him on the other hand. Whay a hypocrisy! Are you jackblack and rabinoz in fact?

Show the forbid flight zone and prove this path includes it by China national sources. Stop do empty! Make an agreement him, which you offer:

- Weather conditions?
- Forbidden zone?

Both? If so, prove! Stop to telling so and so!

I overlaid the Taiwan Strait no fly (forbidden) zone on top of the flight path you referenced. And it looks like a match. You should pick a different flight that isn't impacted by such a thing:


courage is to defend what it known right against the world. can I do this?
Well technically you could do that. The problem is you seem to choose not to and instead outright fight against what is known to be right.
You completely reject any part of reality that shows you are wrong.

Distance shown in the map seems 963kms. In fact, it is about 1.300kms in my map, ie the true distance. You can see a straight line shown in my map about this flight. And this is the perfect I meant!
And that isn't perfect, it is nonsense.
Flights typically don't fly in straight lines. Especially when they go over countries.

You completely ignore the massive errors associated with the distance you would calculate and have in no way shown that it wouldn't work on a globe. Any time a flight is too far out to fit on your broken map you just reject it.

I chose the reality. Give up to defend lies. Nothing can explain hundreds of flights between Shangai and Taiwan constantly uses same extraordinary route. Stop to produse excuses for your wrong map.
No, you chose to reject reality. Stop making up excuses for your failed map.
The routes are easily explained if you understand air corridors.

Show the forbid flight zone and prove this path includes it by China national sources. Stop do empty! Make an agreement him, which you offer:
Don't try and shift the burden of proof.
You demonstrate that there should be nothing stopping the plane flying straight to its destination.

If you can't, your method is useless as it relies upon wild speculation.

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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
I overlaid the Taiwan Strait no fly (forbidden) zone on top of the flight path you referenced. And it looks like a match. You should pick a different flight that isn't impacted by such a thing:


Thanks Stash, you did what I did not even bother to do.

It also gives additional evidence that Wise has not considered ANY factors other than flight times in his "map".

He needs to look at the flight paths for each and every one of his supposed 100k flights.
Then he needs to look at
- the fact that different planes have different speeds
- high altitude winds
- any weather effects
- city altitude
- flight profile
- holding patterns and airport traffic
So right now he has looked at zero flights.

His map is worthless

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wise

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BS supports BS. Prove what does prevent the red line instead?



No mountain, no altitude, no FIR, no forbid zone. Why so lie?


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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
BS supports BS. Prove what does prevent the red line instead?



No mountain, no altitude, no FIR, no forbid zone. Why so lie?
If you read the article, its because they have to enter within certain defined corridors or Taiwan could confuse the plane with a Chinese fighter and shoot it down.

You need to read.

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Stash

  • 6339
BS supports BS. Prove what does prevent the red line instead?



No mountain, no altitude, no FIR, no forbid zone. Why so lie?

You might want to do more research into no fly (forbidden) zones, air defense territories, and consequent flight paths. I overlaid the air defense identification zones (ADIZs) in the airspace over the East China Sea on top of the route. You can see why the Taiwan flight would veer out of China's ADIZ quite quickly in order to stay within the overlapping Taiwan ADIZ. It all makes sense when you look at the flight path and how it fits within the no fly zones:


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wise

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This is possible by this way:



Now our aircraft has entered same zones just by using a better route.

next lie!


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Stash

  • 6339
This is possible by this way:



Now our aircraft has entered same zones just by using a better route.

next lie!

Sure, it's possible. But it just looks like to me as soon as they get north past the strait's no fly zone, they make a hard left to get back into the Taiwan ONLY ADIZ that is not shared with China's.  Which, when you think about it, makes sense.

You should probably bring up an example that isn't a part of hotly contested territories with ADIZ's and such. Your example here is not working in your benefit.

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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
This is possible by this way:



next lie!
They decided that their route was best based on hundreds of different factors. And you want every one of those things explained to you? What did your last slave die of?

What we have very clearly shown you is that there are a lot of factors involved when deciding flight routes, and simply taking flight times into consideration is not a good measure of how far things are.

The world is a complicated place with many cross border agreements, fighting, unions, politics, climate, geographical elements, legal, physical constraints, concerns for safety ext that all need to be accounted for when designing flight routes.
Pilots dont just jump behind a cockpit and ask the passengers where they wanna go.

Please, for your sake, contact a local flight school or air charter, and ask if you can sit down and interview a pilot and ask him about these things. Better, ask him if he can bring a flight chart and copy of a flight plan with. Then ask him all these questions. You clearly dont trust us here, so take it to someone neutral.

Pilots are generally nice people, just keep away from young Air force guys, in my experience they all think they are Tom Cruise.

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wise

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This is possible by this way:



Now our aircraft has entered same zones just by using a better route.

next lie!

Sure, it's possible. But it just looks like to me as soon as they get north past the strait's no fly zone, they make a hard left to get back into the Taiwan ONLY ADIZ that is not shared with China's.  Which, when you think about it, makes sense.

You should probably bring up an example that isn't a part of hotly contested territories with ADIZ's and such. Your example here is not working in your benefit.

To be clear, your map was not convincing at all. I don't believe Taiwan controls air space of a part of China.


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wise

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They decided that their route was best based on hundreds of different factors. And you want every one of those things explained to you? What did your last slave die of?

What we have very clearly shown you is that there are a lot of factors involved when deciding flight routes, and simply taking flight times into consideration is not a good measure of how far things are.
I told I don't want to talk you anymore because you are not sincere at all acting alt of angry globalists here, targetin me with an anger.

You are missing all the point that how we came this conclusion. It has started bright's claim:

Every airline route works perfect on the globe model.

Your crime partner told every routes perfect and now you are talking about severe factors affect the routes to explain why they are not perfect!

So, as a result, you have some excuses to explain your unperfect routes. So, why so ambitious talking?


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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
This is possible by this way:
https://i.hizliresim.com/PG3ol9.png
Now our aircraft has entered same zones just by using a better route.
So YOU say!
When you are an expert at air safety and diplomatic relations you might be qualified to decide such things.
Until then keep your nose out of things you don't understand!

Now for once in your life admit that you are wrong about your silly "Black listed aircraft companies: Qantas, Lan, Latam, South African, Sichuan Airline".

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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
I don't believe Taiwan controls air space of a part of China.
They dont, air space is hotly contested there all the time. Hint, The whole South China Sea is a political hot spot.

The person who is able to and threatens to shoot down a plane however, controls that airspace.
Same applies literally everywhere.

China and Taiwan are not friendly to each other, China literally wants to invade Taiwan and sanctions any country that considers Taiwan a independent state, including the USA.

So they have some agreements to avoid accidentally shooting down civilian aircraft. Each flight to and from China and Taiwan have to be agreed on before hand, this is why its near impossible to know all the factors that go into these flight paths.


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rvlvr

  • 2004
Wise's calculations vs the world at large.

It is battle worthy of bards' songs.

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Stash

  • 6339
This is possible by this way:



Now our aircraft has entered same zones just by using a better route.

next lie!

Sure, it's possible. But it just looks like to me as soon as they get north past the strait's no fly zone, they make a hard left to get back into the Taiwan ONLY ADIZ that is not shared with China's.  Which, when you think about it, makes sense.

You should probably bring up an example that isn't a part of hotly contested territories with ADIZ's and such. Your example here is not working in your benefit.

To be clear, your map was not convincing at all. I don't believe Taiwan controls air space of a part of China.

It's not my map. It's the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) map.

Like I said, you would be better served using flight examples that don't have to navigate through hotly contested air defense no fly zones. Something that this example makes painfully obvious.

As has already been pointed out to you, there are myriad reasons why a flight route may not appear as direct as it could be. You just happened to pick a terrible example for your cause that actually, simply, shows how disputed political boundaries affect air travel, not the shape of the earth.

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rabinoz

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  • Real Earth Believer
Like I said, you would be better served using flight examples that don't have to navigate through hotly contested air defense no fly zones. Something that this example makes painfully obvious.

As has already been pointed out to you, there are myriad reasons why a flight route may not appear as direct as it could be. You just happened to pick a terrible example for your cause that actually, simply, shows how disputed political boundaries affect air travel, not the shape of the earth.
Try wise on a flight from New Delhi to Beijing. Why didn't it take a shorter route ????

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Stash

  • 6339
Like I said, you would be better served using flight examples that don't have to navigate through hotly contested air defense no fly zones. Something that this example makes painfully obvious.

As has already been pointed out to you, there are myriad reasons why a flight route may not appear as direct as it could be. You just happened to pick a terrible example for your cause that actually, simply, shows how disputed political boundaries affect air travel, not the shape of the earth.
Try wise on a flight from New Delhi to Beijing. Why didn't it take a shorter route ????


An interesting bit I found. Flights originating in Taiwan to China follow that circuitous flight path that keeps them in uncontested Taiwanese air defense space for as long as possible. However, if you look at flights originating in China to Taiwan, those flight paths are put en route via Chinese air defense space for as long as possible. That South China Sea basin is one heavily contested area for sure:


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MaNaeSWolf

  • 1984
  • Show me the evidence
An interesting bit I found. Flights originating in Taiwan to China follow that circuitous flight path that keeps them in uncontested Taiwanese air defense space for as long as possible. However, if you look at flights originating in China to Taiwan, those flight paths are put en route via Chinese air defense space for as long as possible. That South China Sea basin is one heavily contested area for sure:



That is cool, good find Stash.
I would love to see what other confusing routes exist.
I know Russia has some weird air space, so maybe they have some odd routes

BS supports BS. Prove what does prevent the red line instead?
How about the air corridors in China?
How about what has already been brought up?

Again, you are trying to argue without any significant information.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
An interesting bit I found. Flights originating in Taiwan to China follow that circuitous flight path that keeps them in uncontested Taiwanese air defense space for as long as possible. However, if you look at flights originating in China to Taiwan, those flight paths are put en route via Chinese air defense space for as long as possible. That South China Sea basin is one heavily contested area for sure:


If you're flying a commercial plane you do what the military tells you - or else, this:
Quote from: This Day in History
Korean Airlines flight shot down by Soviet Union, September 01, 1983
Soviet jet fighters intercept a Korean Airlines passenger flight in Russian airspace and shoot the plane down, killing 269 passengers and crewmembers. The incident dramatically increased tensions between the Soviet Union and the United States.
The New Delhi to Beijing flight takes the long way around to avoid terrain, the Himalayas and Tibet.
"The average altitude on the Tibetan Plateau is 4,500 meters/ 14,750 ft."