how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite

  • 38 Replies
  • 1729 Views
*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 39609
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2019, 12:47:48 PM »
After you click on reply, directly below the box you type your message in, you should see "Attachments and other options", click on the plus sign, there you will find where it says "Browse". This will open the files on your computer, hopefully you can figure it out from there.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 4307
Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2019, 01:13:08 PM »
Satellites do exist, but they orbit above the surface of the Earth at a much lower altitude, using the Biefeld-Brown effect (exact formula derived by Hermann Weyl in 1917).

However, the GPS satellites DO NOT record the orbital Coriolis effect, nor the rotational Sagnac effect, nor the solar gravitational potential effect.

This is the main reason why virtually all of the relativists are forced to accept the local-aether model of Lorentz.

The values for the altitudes given in the article, then, cannot be true at all, since the ether has layers of different densities (different index of refraction).

That is, the satellites immediately prove the existence of ether: in order to differentiate between geocentrism and heliocentrism one needs the GLOBAL SAGNAC EFFECT formula.

Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2019, 01:19:14 AM »
Satellites do exist, but they orbit above the surface of the Earth at a much lower altitude, using the Biefeld-Brown effect (exact formula derived by Hermann Weyl in 1917).

However, the GPS satellites DO NOT record the orbital Coriolis effect, nor the rotational Sagnac effect, nor the solar gravitational potential effect.

This is the main reason why virtually all of the relativists are forced to accept the local-aether model of Lorentz.

The values for the altitudes given in the article, then, cannot be true at all, since the ether has layers of different densities (different index of refraction).

That is, the satellites immediately prove the existence of ether: in order to differentiate between geocentrism and heliocentrism one needs the GLOBAL SAGNAC EFFECT formula.

So, you claim that GPS satellites send falsified ephemeris data and falsified atomic clock times?
Oh, and also, that they use anti-gravity propulsion?
Additional question: How high are they "orbiting"?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 01:32:55 AM by kosmacz »

*

rabinoz

  • 22146
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2019, 01:57:37 AM »
Satellites do exist, but they orbit above the surface of the Earth at a much lower altitude, using the Biefeld-Brown effect (exact formula derived by Hermann Weyl in 1917).

However, the GPS satellites DO NOT record the orbital Coriolis effect, nor the rotational Sagnac effect, nor the solar gravitational potential effect.
Possibly because the "orbital Coriolis Sagnac effect" is included in the "rotational Sagnac effect", which is allowed for.
And there is no significant "solar gravitational potential effect".

Quote from: sandokhan
This is the main reason why virtually all of the relativists are forced to accept the local-aether model of Lorentz.
Except that "relativists" do not, in the main, "accept the local-aether model of Lorentz."
Almost all modern physicists and cosmologists accept Einstein's Theory of General Relatively though they are open to better theories.

Quote from: sandokhan
The values for the altitudes given in the article, then, cannot be true at all, since the ether has layers of different densities (different index of refraction).
So you say, but please remind us of how high you think the sun and moon are above the earth.

Quote from: sandokhan
That is, the satellites immediately prove the existence of ether: in order to differentiate between geocentrism and heliocentrism one needs the GLOBAL SAGNAC EFFECT formula.
And it has the Global Relativistic Sagnac "formula".

You might read the General Relativistic analysis for a Sagnac loop: General Relativistic Sagnac formula revised by Paolo Maraner Jean-Pierre Zendri.

Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2019, 02:15:54 AM »
Satellites do exist, but they orbit above the surface of the Earth at a much lower altitude, using the Biefeld-Brown effect (exact formula derived by Hermann Weyl in 1917).

However, the GPS satellites DO NOT record the orbital Coriolis effect, nor the rotational Sagnac effect, nor the solar gravitational potential effect.

This is the main reason why virtually all of the relativists are forced to accept the local-aether model of Lorentz.

The values for the altitudes given in the article, then, cannot be true at all, since the ether has layers of different densities (different index of refraction).

That is, the satellites immediately prove the existence of ether: in order to differentiate between geocentrism and heliocentrism one needs the GLOBAL SAGNAC EFFECT formula.

But you're just making that up, it's a figment of your imagination. You don't actually have any evidence.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 4307
Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2019, 05:00:48 AM »
The Maraner-Zendri formula is the rotational CORIOLIS EFFECT formula with relativistic higher order terms.

They do not analyze the SAGNAC EFFECT, which requires two loops.

What Maraner and Zendri did is to derive the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula with relativistic corrections which are dependent on the center of rotation, and NOT the SAGNAC EFFECT.

They used the SAME derivation as did Michelson based on a comparison of two sides, AND NOT THE TWO LOOPS as required by the definition of the Sagnac error, a huge error on their part.

Dr. Ludwik Silberstein derived the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula, which features an AREA (the SAGNAC EFFECT formula has the VELOCITY):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2068289#msg2068289

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2069660#msg2069660

HERE IS THE PROOF THAT DR. SILBERSTEIN DERIVED THE CORIOLIS EFFECT:

One of the most in-depth treaties on the ring laser interferometers.

https://books.google.ro/books?id=8c_mBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=malykin+silberstein+coriolis&source=bl&ots=JrMqF2vmto&sig=xCnMB4hL_J_ESg9Xdfhye1ahVjA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiE0ZDWxeXeAhXwkYsKHYxwBMYQ6AEwCXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=malykin%20silberstein%20coriolis&f=false

Silberstein (798, 799) suggested an explanation for the Sagnac effect based on the direct consideration of the effect of the Coriolis force on the counterpropagating waves.

Those two references, 798 and 799 are EXACTLY the ones I provided in my messages.

In a rare admission, even N. Ashby states that the Coriolis force is responsible for the term commonly used in GPS technology for the Sagnac effect:





The ROTATIONAL CORIOLIS EFFECT and the ORBITAL CORIOLIS EFFECT are two different formulas, derived for the first time in 1904 by A. Michelson:

http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Michelson-Gale/Michelson_1904.pdf

Both are proportional to the AREA.


Here is the correct formula for the GLOBAL SAGNAC EFFECT, a formula which is proportional to the VELOCITY of the light beams:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2117351#msg2117351




GPS satellites record/register ONLY the ROTATIONAL CORIOLIS EFFECT, nothing else.

They do not record the ORBITAL CORIOLIS EFFECT.

They do not record the ROTATIONAL SAGNAC EFFECT.


And they certainly do not record the SOLAR GRAVITATIONAL POTENTIAL EFFECT, which is significant:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846706#msg1846706


Since both the ORBITAL CORIOLIS/SAGNAC EFFECTS and the SOLAR GRAVITATIONAL POTENTIAL EFFECT are not registered by the satellites, the hypotheses of the RUDERFER experiment are being fulfilled:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721


Any relativist who is confronted by these undeniable facts immediately makes use of the MLET (modified Lorentz ether theory).

https://web.archive.org/web/20170808104846/http://qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/f1b.pdf

This is an IOP article.


Only the most uninformed relativists make use of Einstein's TGR.

Einstein's original equations DO NOT HAVE A BOUNDED DYNAMIC SOLUTION: that is, they cannot be applied to either the bending of light, the perihelion of Mercury or any other calculation involving many-body problems.

Here is the complete demonstration:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2194825#msg2194825

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2196454#msg2196454




*

rabinoz

  • 22146
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2019, 06:01:41 AM »
The Maraner-Zendri formula is the rotational CORIOLIS EFFECT formula with relativistic higher order terms.

They do not analyze the SAGNAC EFFECT, which requires two loops.
Really? Then YOU claim that Georges Sagnac, himself, did not demonstrate the "Sagnac Effect" that bears his name?
Where the "two loops" in:

Fig. 1. Sagnac interferometer mounted on a turntable (reproduced from his paper of 1913)
From: The Sagnac effect and its interpretation by Paul Langevin


Most of the light paths are common with the light travelling in two directions.

There is absolutely no necessity for TWO physical loops. All that is needed is for the light (or any other signal) to travel in two driections.

Quote from: sandokhan
What Maraner and Zendri did is to derive the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula with relativistic corrections which are dependent on the center of rotation, and NOT the SAGNAC EFFECT.
In other words, you do not understand the Maraner and Zendri General Relativitistic derivation of the Sagnac Effect for the general case when the centre of rotation if far outside the loop.

I guessed that you wouldn't!
But Maraner and Zendri take their solution beyond the first order and that brings in the relativistic correction, which is usually extremely small.

Quote from: sandokhan
They used the SAME derivation as did Michelson based on a comparison of two sides, AND NOT THE TWO LOOPS as required by the definition of the Sagnac error, a huge error on their part.
So you say!
But, I'd trust the derivations of Georges Sagnac, Michelson, Silberstein, Maraner and Zendri before yours any day!
And I know that Georges Sagnac was trying to prove the presence of the luminiferous aether and debunk Albert Einstein's relativity.

Quote from: sandokhan
Dr. Ludwik Silberstein derived the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula, which features an AREA (the SAGNAC EFFECT formula has the VELOCITY):
No he didn't! As I said I do not accept your derivation because, whatever YOU say, the Sagnac Effect depends on "an AREA" not velocity.

So I'll accept that Georges Sagnac, Michelson, Silberstein, Maraner and Zendri really knew what they were talking about.

Quote from: sandokhan

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2069660#msg2069660
So YOU claim to know better than Georges Sagnac as to what constitutes a Sagnac loop - give me a break!

Quote from: sandokhan
HERE IS THE PROOF THAT DR. SILBERSTEIN DERIVED THE CORIOLIS EFFECT:
One of the most in-depth treaties on the ring laser interferometers. Ring Interferometry By Grigorii B. Malykin, Vera I. Pozdnyakova
It proves no such thing!
It seems to me that Grigorii B. Malykin, Vera I. Pozdnyakova have not interpreted Silberstein's work correctly with regard to the Coriolis Effect on the light paths but if I remember correctly Grigorii B. Malykin, Vera I. Pozdnyakova work is quite correct in their final conclusions and leave no doubt that it is the Sagnac Effect and not Coriolis.

I'll look further when I get time.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 4307
Re: how to know the altitude of a DirecTV satelite
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2019, 06:27:25 AM »
Georges Sagnac derived the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula, which features the AREA.

The definition of the Sagnac effect is applied to a closed loop (either circular or a uniform path).

Loop = a structure, series, or process, the end of which is connected to the beginning.

Thus, from a mathematical point of view, Michelson did not derive the Sagnac effect formula at all, since he compared two open segments, and not two loops.

Using the correct definition, we recover not only the error-free formula, but also the precise velocity addition terms.

For the Coriolis effect, one has a formula which is proportional to the area; only the phase differences of EACH SIDE are being compared, and not the continuous paths.

For the Sagnac effect, one has a formula which is proportional to the velocity of the light beam; the entire continuous clockwise path is being compared to the other continuous counterclockwise path exactly as required by the definition of the Sagnac effect.

Experimentally, the Michelson-Gale test was a closed loop, but not mathematically. Michelson treated mathematically each of the longer sides/arms of the interferometer as a separate entity: no closed loop was formed at all. Therefore the mathematical description put forth by Michelson has nothing to do with the correct definition of the Sagnac effect (two pulses of light are sent in opposite direction around a closed loop) (either circular or a single uniform path). By treating each side/arm separately, Michelson was describing and analyzing the Coriolis effect, not the Sagnac effect.

Loop = a structure, series, or process, the end of which is connected to the beginning.

Connecting the two sides through a single mathematical description closes the loop; treating each side separately does not. The Sagnac effect requires, by definition, a structure, the end of which is connected to the beginning.

HERE IS THE DEFINITION OF THE SAGNAC EFFECT:

Two pulses of light sent in opposite direction around a closed loop (either circular or a single uniform path), while the interferometer is being rotated.

Loop = a structure, series, or process, the end of which is connected to the beginning.

A single continuous pulse A > B > C > D > A, while the other one, A > D > C > B > A is in the opposite direction, and has the negative sign.




Point A is located at the detector
Point B is in the bottom right corner
Point C is in the upper right corner
Point D is in the upper left corner

l1 is the upper arm.
l2 is the lower arm.

Here is the most important part of the derivation of the full/global Sagnac effect for an interferometer located away from the center of rotation.

A > B > C > D > A is a continuous counterclockwise path, a negative sign -

A > D > C > B > A is a continuous clockwise path, a positive sign +

The Sagnac phase difference for the clockwise path has a positive sign.

The Sagnac phase difference for the counterclockwise has a negative sign.


Sagnac phase components for the A > D > C > B > A path (clockwise path):

l1/(c - v1)

-l2/(c + v2)

Sagnac phase components for the A > B > C > D > A path (counterclockwise path):

l2/(c - v2)

-l1/(c + v1)


For the single continuous clockwise path we add the components:

l1/(c - v1) - l2/(c + v2)

For the single continuous counterclockwise path we add the components:

l2/(c - v2) - l1/(c + v1)


The net phase difference will be (let us remember that the counterclockwise phase difference has a negative sign attached to it, that is why the substraction of the phase differences becomes an addition):

{l1/(c - v1) - l2/(c + v2)} - (-){l2/(c - v2) - l1/(c + v1)} = {l1/(c - v1) - l2/(c + v2)} + {l2/(c - v2) - l1/(c + v1)}

Rearranging terms:

l1/(c - v1) - l1/(c + v1) + {l2/(c - v2) - l2/(c + v2)} =

2(v1l1 + v2l2)/c2

Exactly the formula obtained by Professor Yeh:

φ = -2(φ2 - φ1) = 4π(R1L1 + R2L2)Ω/λc = 4π(V1L1 + V2L2)/λc

Since Δφ = 2πc/λ x Δt, Δt = 2(R1L1 + R2L2)Ω/c2 = 2(V1L1 + V2L2)/c2

CORRECT SAGNAC FORMULA:

2(V1L1 + V2L2)/c2

Self-pumped phase-conjugate fiber-optic gyro, I. McMichael, P. Yeh, Optics Letters 11(10):686-8 November 1986 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a170203.pdf (appendix 5.1)


This is how the correct Sagnac formula is derived: we have single continuous clockwise path, and a single continuous counterclockwise path.

If we desire the Coriolis effect, we simply substract as follows:

dt = l1/(c - v1) - l1/(c + v1) - (l2/(c - v2) - l2/(c + v2))

Of course, by proceeding as in the usual manner for a Sagnac phase shift formula for an interferometer whose center of rotation coincides with its geometrical center, we obtain:

2v1l1/(c2 - v21) - 2v2l2/(c2 - v22)

l = l1 = l2

2l[(v1 - v2)]/c2

2lΩ[(R1 - R2)]/c2

R1 - R2 = h

2lhΩ/c2

By having substracted two different Sagnac phase shifts, valid for the two different segments, we obtain the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula.


However, for the SAGNAC EFFECT, we have a single CONTINUOUS CLOCKWISE PATH, and a single CONTINUOUS COUNTERCLOCKWISE PATH, as the definition of the Sagnac effect entails.



Dr. Ludwik Silberstein, a physicist on the same level with Einstein and Michelson, partially inspired and supported the Michelson-Gale experiment.

In 1921, Dr. Silberstein proposed that the Sagnac effect, as it relates to the rotation of the Earth or to the effect of the ether drift, must be explained in terms of the Coriolis effect: the direct action of Coriolis forces on counterpropagating waves.

http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Michelson-Gale/Silberstein.pdf

The propagation of light in rotating systems, Journal of the Optical Society of America, vol. V, number 4, 1921

Dr. Silberstein developed the formula published by A. Michelson using very precise details, not to be found anywhere else.

He uses the expression kω for the angular velocity, where k is the aether drag factor.

He proves that the formula for the Coriolis effect on the light beams is:

dt = 2ωσ/c2

Then, Dr. Silberstein analyzes the area σ and proves that it is actually a SUM of two other areas (page 300 of the paper, page 10 of the pdf document).

The effect of the Coriolis force upon the interferometer will be to create a convex and a concave shape of the areas: σ1 and σ2.

The sum of these two areas is replaced by 2A and this is how the final formula achieves its final form:

dt = 4ωA/c2

A = σ1 + σ2

That is, the CORIOLIS EFFECT upon the light beams is totally related to the closed contour area.

In 1922, Dr. Silberstein published a second paper on the subject, where he generalizes the nature of the rays arriving from the collimator:

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Historical%20Papers-Mechanics%20/%20Electrodynamics/Download/2645

In 1924, one year before the Michelson-Gale experiment, Dr. Silberstein published a third paper, where he again explicitly links the Coriolis effect to the counterpropagating light beams in the interferometer:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786442408634503

Thus A. Michelson knew well in advance that he was going to actually measure the Coriolis effect and not the Sagnac effect.

The original papers published by G. Sagnac (The Luminiferous Ether is Detected as a Wind Effect Relative to the Ether Using a Uniformly Rotating Interferometer):

http://zelmanov.ptep-online.com/papers/zj-2008-07.pdf

http://zelmanov.ptep-online.com/papers/zj-2008-08.pdf

In 1913, Georges Sagnac measured ONLY the Coriolis effect, and not the true Sagnac effect (proportional to the linear velocity and radius of rotation).

Here is the shape of the interferometer used by Sagnac:



Different sets of radii and the center of rotation do not coincide with the geometrical center of the interferometer.

That is why Sagnac had to use the formula which features the area and the angular velocity: he only measured the CORIOLIS EFFECT.

Even if the shape of the interferometer is made to look more symmetrical, there are still two different radii to deal with:



Before 1920, there were only three papers published on the Sagnac effect, the two articles by Sagnac and the 1911 paper by M. von Laue which deals with the theoretical aspects.

That is why, in 1921, Dr. Ludwik Silberstein published the most in-depth analysis ever done on the relationship between the Coriolis force effect and the Sagnac interferometer.

http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Michelson-Gale/Silberstein.pdf

The propagation of light in rotating systems, Journal of the Optical Society of America, vol. V, number 4, 1921

He proved that the real cause of the phenomenon measured by Georges Sagnac was the CORIOLIS FORCE EFFECT.



Dr. Silberstein reveals the error committed by M. von Laue in the paper published in 1911:

"Laue seems, by the way, to be under the misapprehension that the light rays relative to the rotating table are straight lines, which they are not."

Dr. Silberstein proved that the effect measured by Sagnac is A PHYSICAL EFFECT, a deflection/inflection of the light beams due to the CORIOLIS FORCE.

In 1922, he extended the definition used in his 1921 paper on the nature of the rays arriving from the collimator:

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Historical%20Papers-Mechanics%20/%20Electrodynamics/Download/2645

In the study (in Russian, The Sagnac Effect) which features over 300 references, G. Malykin omitted the very important article published by Dr. Silberstein in 1922.


The precise proofs published by Dr. Ludwik Silberstein in 1921 show that the Coriolis force will exert a physical effect on the light beams, if the center of rotation does not coincide with the center of the interferometer.

Michelson, Morley, Sagnac, Pogany, Hammar, Dufour and Prunier, Miller, Post all measured the Coriolis effect on the interferometer which was located away from the center of rotation. The Coriolis effect is a physical effect, proportional to the area and the angular velocity.

Professor Yeh and Professor Wang detected the true Sagnac effect which is an electromagnetic effect, and is proportional to the linear velocity and the radius of rotation.

CORIOLIS EFFECT on the Sagnac interferometer which is placed away from the center of rotation: the physical modification of the light beams (inflection and deflection) as proven by Dr. Silberstein.

SAGNAC EFFECT on the interferometer: the modification of the velocities of the light beams, c + v and c - v.

That is why the Coriolis effect is much smaller in magnitude than the true Sagnac effect, which is proportional to the radius of rotation.


As for the Coriolis effect formula here it is:

dt = 4ωA/c^2

PROOF

THIS IS AN IOP ARTICLE, one of the most comprehensive papers on the Sagnac effect ever published.





Here is reference #27:



http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Michelson-Gale/Silberstein.pdf

The formula derived by Dr. Silberstein, peer reviewed in the IOP article, and described by the author as the "effect of the Coriolis forces" is this:

dt = 4ωA/c^2

Here is a direct derivation of the same formula using only the Coriolis force:

https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/pram/087/05/0071

The derivation has NO LOOPS at all.

Just a comparison of two sides.



Here is the Maraner-Zendri formula:



What Maraner and Zendri did is to derive the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula with relativistic corrections which are dependent on the center of rotation, and NOT the SAGNAC EFFECT.

They used the SAME derivation as did Michelson based on a comparison of two sides, AND NOT THE TWO LOOPS as required by the definition of the Sagnac error, a huge error on their part.



For the uninformed RE: here is the correct definition of the Sagnac effect.

https://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm

If two pulses of light are sent in opposite directions around a stationary circular loop of radius R, they will travel the same inertial distance at the same speed, so they will arrive at the end point simultaneously.

http://www.cleonis.nl/physics/phys256/sagnac.php

Essential in the Sagnac effect is that a loop is closed.

http://www.einsteins-theory-of-relativity-4engineers.com/sagnac-effect.html

The Sagnac effect is observed when coherent light travels around a closed loop in opposite directions and the phases of the two signals are compared at a detector.



THE SAGNAC EFFECT DOES NOT REQUIRE AN AREA, only the CORIOLIS EFFECT is proportional to an area.



*

rabinoz

  • 22146
  • Real Earth Believer