Common Sence

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Dioptimus Drime

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Common Sence
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2007, 12:11:22 AM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"
Gravity CAN be explained, it already has been. Now, as for knowing, WHY gravity exists and does what it does, what would we gain from knowing that?

Knowledge. Dumb question.

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RE can predict  most known phenomenons with 100% accuracy, reproduce them , or make smaller scaled models of them (again with close to 100% accuracy in the results) FE can't do this, it will never be able to do this (otherwise, it would actually be a theory) and I'm sure you'll agree that FE has many, many more unknowns than RE. So in that respect, the OP was correct.

Why does the shape of the Earth change every other science experiment in history? That's going a bit far, eh?


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1. I think he was refering to the fact that some FE will deny that gravity exists at all, and then turn around and tell you that the sun and/or moon have gravvitational fields.

2. Gravity is a property of all matter with mass, so if the sun has a gravitationnal field, then the earth and everything else in the universe does as well. Either everything does, or nothing does. The earth is made of matter just like everything else, so it's impossible to have some planets with it, and some without, that is an illogical statment.

Firstly, I don't think anyone's saying that we know positively whether or not the sun or the moon have "gravity." Even if they did, it can be just as logical.

Secondly, you ADMIT that you have no idea how gravity works, but now you're telling us that it has to be a property of matter with mass? How are you supposed to know that if you have no idea how it works in the first place?


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That is not correct. Magic cannot be calculated and predicted and cannot be shown to be an observable phenomenon in nature. Gravity can, and is.

A force that literally will keep pulling objects in no matter how many barriers you have in front of it or what you do to attempt to disrupt the force? Yeah, sounds pretty magical to me.

Plus, magic can totally be calculated and predicted. If I make a wizard at level one, I can predict that he knows all level zero spells (besides, obviously, the ones from his prohibited magic area, if any), and then I can calculate that based on the wizard's intelligence, he will know two one-level spells as well as adding one extra per intelligence bonus. The correct arithmetic for that would be:
0level spells = 100% - prohibited
1level spells = 2 + n, where n is the intelligence bonus.
Thus your wild claim that you "can't calculate and predict magic" is totally down the drain.


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Actually, all objects with mass posses a gravitational field that increases in intensity as the mass increases. The more massive the object, the greater the field, earth is several times more masive than you, so you "stick" to it. You also have your own gravitational field, but we puny humans don't generate a field of any significance.

Or so you so boldly assume (and procede to display your assumptions as pure facts).

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That is correct, even though I don't know what frak means. But note the earth's rotation DOES affect the earth's gravitational pull.

Frak=board's substitute for Da F-Bomb.

...bitch...


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You'll agree that there is no ice wall covering the sky.

Like the gases take much to stay in a huge bowl that's flying up in the sky, not to mention the fact that the ice wall is reeeeeeally big.


~D-Draw

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2007, 12:26:55 AM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Gravity CAN be explained, it already has been. Now, as for knowing, WHY gravity exists and does what it does, what would we gain from knowing that?

That would be like saying "We know Penicillin works as an antibiotic, who cares how it works?"


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Common Sence
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2007, 10:43:29 AM »
What the hell is wrong with you people? I just posted an explanation for gravity a few posts ago! There you go again, ignoring any kind of explanation that would prove you wrong!!! Ignoramuses.
It's quite remarkable really that both Israel and Palestine have no qualms about slaughtering the crap out of each other - but they are perfectly willing to work together jovially and hide a secret that wouldn't make much difference to the world. -rdethgy

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2007, 10:49:32 AM »
Quote from: "Big N"
What the hell is wrong with you people? I just posted an explanation for gravity a few posts ago! There you go again, ignoring any kind of explanation that would prove you wrong!!! Ignoramuses.

You explained what gravity does to space and how that space and objects interact.  You did not explain how gravity works.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Common Sence
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2007, 11:03:23 AM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"

You explained what gravity does to space and how that space and objects interact.  You did not explain how gravity works.


I did not under any circumstances explain what gravity does to space. I explained what matter does to space. Matter bends space so that constantly free-falling objects (which is everything in the universe) fall in the direction of the larger, more massive objects. That is how gravity works - or at least how Einstein thought gravity works.
It's quite remarkable really that both Israel and Palestine have no qualms about slaughtering the crap out of each other - but they are perfectly willing to work together jovially and hide a secret that wouldn't make much difference to the world. -rdethgy

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2007, 12:31:13 PM »
You again described what mass does to space.  You did not explain how it does it.  That is the question at hand.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Common Sence
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2007, 05:14:15 PM »
mass = mc2 + the force of acceleration / the number of stars in the sky
he kinds of equations that they have now are the kinds of equations you would get in an approximation scheme to some underlying theory, but nobody knows what the underlying theory is.

discover magazine

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Dirtyhands

Common Sence
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2007, 09:07:16 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
You again described what mass does to space.  You did not explain how it does it.  That is the question at hand.


He just did!

Quote from: "Big N"
Matter bends space so that constantly free-falling objects (which is everything in the universe) fall in the direction of the larger, more massive objects.

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2007, 09:51:57 PM »
Again, HOW?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Common Sence
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2007, 01:34:13 AM »
All of you "FEers" constantly try to disprove the supposed "RE theory". You, however, fail to give any factual evidence towards your own concept of the Earth. It's easy to say that something someone else says is wrong, but it's a completely different thing to actually prove your own ideas with the use of factual information. What you have are concepts, ideas, and theories combined with some modern science. What we have is satellite photos, people who have flown around the Earth, astronauts, the moon, brilliant scientists, and much more. Sure, it's possible that all of those things make up the largest conspiracy ever in the history of anything... but it's also extremely unlikely. So, hard evidence would be very much welcomed.
URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]
You will submit.

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2007, 05:46:09 AM »
Quote from: "Mr. Smammi"
All of you "FEers" constantly try to disprove the supposed "RE theory".

Are we?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Common Sence
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2007, 12:24:35 PM »
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Why does the shape of the Earth change every other science experiment in history? That's going a bit far, eh?


What are you talking about? When did I say it did?

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Firstly, I don't think anyone's saying that we know positively whether or not the sun or the moon have "gravity."

Indeed some people do.

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Even if they did, it can be just as logical


Explain how.

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Secondly, you ADMIT that you have no idea how gravity works,


No I don't, when did I say that?

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but now you're telling us that it has to be a property of matter with mass?


I'm not saying it has to be, I'm saying it is.

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A force that literally will keep pulling objects in no matter how many barriers you have in front of it or what you do to attempt to disrupt the force? Yeah, sounds pretty magical to me.


Gravity pulls you towards the point of 0 gravity, which in our case is the center of the earth, since you are obviously not in the center of the earth I'd say there's something stopping you. And if you want to disrupt it, then  all you have to do is increase the distance between the 2 objects, but I don't see why the force should ever disapear. Magnetism does the same thing, erecting barriers will not stop the force from being there, the attractive effect will always be there, putting up barrier will not change that. As long as the force is strong enough, the attraction will take place, there's nothing magical about that.

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Plus, magic can totally be calculated and predicted. If I make a wizard at level one, I can predict that he knows all level zero spells  bla bla bla


Observable phenomenons have nothing to do with board games. If you think they do, then you are stupid.

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Or so you so boldly assume (and procede to display your assumptions as pure facts


I don't need to assume it, that's what happens. Those aren't MY assumptions, it's what observable in our universe. And you're not really demonstrating that it isn't.

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Like the gases take much to stay in a huge bowl that's flying up in the sky, not to mention the fact that the ice wall is reeeeeeally big


What bowl are you talking about, and how would you know how big it is?

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That would be like saying "We know Penicillin works as an antibiotic, who cares how it works?"


How and why are not the same word and are not synonyms.

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Gravity CAN be explained, it already has been. Now, as for knowing, WHY gravity exists and does what it does, what would we gain from knowing that?


It's in bold letters for god's sake. Once again, LEARN TO READ.

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You again described what mass does to space. You did not explain how it does it.


That's because any smart person can figure it out. It does it by being there. THAT'S how it does it. When mass isn't there, it doesn't bend space.

The explanation of how gravity works has been given already many times, you are just denying that explanation. What causes of gravity  is mass. You are asking about the cause of that cause, which is no longer how gravity works but "how the thing that causes gravity" works.
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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GeoGuy

Common Sence
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2007, 12:31:13 PM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"


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You again described what mass does to space. You did not explain how it does it.


That's because any smart person can figure it out. It does it by being there. THAT'S how it does it. When mass isn't there, it doesn't bend space.

The explanation of how gravity works has been given already many times, you are just denying that explanation. What causes of gravity  is mass. You are asking about the cause of that cause, which is no longer how gravity works but "how the thing that causes gravity" works.


So mass bends space time simply by 'being there'. Hm, I can't say the idea seems particularly intuitive to me.

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2007, 12:41:20 PM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"

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That would be like saying "We know Penicillin works as an antibiotic, who cares how it works?"


How and why are not the same word and are not synonyms.

Ok. That would be like saying, "We know Penicillin works as an antibiotic, who cares why it works?"


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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FE

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Common Sence
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2007, 12:44:39 PM »
How does "FE" theory work then? The answer is that it doesn't. Quite clearly. You have shown be no evidence that it does, and your FAQ is frankly a list of questions that you can't answer. I want some proof, and I want scientists showing it.

Common Sence
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2007, 12:46:40 PM »
dude scientists are liers like evilution that is just a bie lie it isnt' true. lolx0rszdoijvsl
he kinds of equations that they have now are the kinds of equations you would get in an approximation scheme to some underlying theory, but nobody knows what the underlying theory is.

discover magazine

Common Sence
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2007, 12:47:31 PM »
Scientsts don't lie, they just aren't always right.

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2007, 12:48:17 PM »
Quote from: "FE"
How does "FE" theory work then? The answer is that it doesn't. Quite clearly.

Quite clearly, we have shown that it can.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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FE

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Common Sence
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2007, 12:48:53 PM »
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Scientsts don't lie, they just aren't always right.


No, but I'm sure some students on an internet forum are.  :roll:

Common Sence
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2007, 12:50:44 PM »
these arnt any students. these are the some extreamly smart sudents who are in on a top secret world government plot that is very evil, starting from around the 1600's
he kinds of equations that they have now are the kinds of equations you would get in an approximation scheme to some underlying theory, but nobody knows what the underlying theory is.

discover magazine

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Jutsu

Common Sence
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2007, 02:48:01 PM »
I myself am a round earth believer, but there is a hole in your arguement. This is only common sence because of what you have been taught; if you learn something for years, that is your knowledge. If you have been taught the flat earth theory, you would probably call a flat earth common sence.

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TheEngineer

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Common Sence
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2007, 07:15:40 PM »
Quote from: "ItsFuckingRound"
I myself am a round earth believer, but there is a hole in your arguement.

And it would be...?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Common Sence
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2007, 12:46:47 AM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "phaseshifter"

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That would be like saying "We know Penicillin works as an antibiotic, who cares how it works?"


How and why are not the same word and are not synonyms.

Ok. That would be like saying, "We know Penicillin works as an antibiotic, who cares why it works?"


That still has nothing to do with what  I said.

Learn to read.

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So mass bends space time simply by 'being there'. Hm, I can't say the idea seems particularly intuitive to me.


Why? Mass occupies space, that's easy to understand. If you don't beleive that, then what's YOUR explanation for red shifts?


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I myself am a round earth believer, but there is a hole in your arguement. This is only common sence because of what you have been taught; if you learn something for years, that is your knowledge. If you have been taught the flat earth theory, you would probably call a flat earth common sence.


People don't beleive things simply because they were told. I'm sure you didn't beleive evrything your teachers told you, even when it was true.
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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Erasmus

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Common Sence
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2007, 02:29:58 PM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"
That still has nothing to do with what  I said.

Learn to read.


I hear this from you fairly often...

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Why? Mass occupies space, that's easy to understand. If you don't beleive that, then what's YOUR explanation for red shifts?


I don't think anybody is doubting that mass (matter, I think you mean) occupies space.  If he doesn't believe that, he's got bigger philosophical issues to deal with than red shifts?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Common Sence
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2007, 07:12:47 PM »
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I hear this from you fairly often...


Sometimes, and it's unfortunate. I'm sure you can see that the analogy doesn't stand.

Even the context is wrong. Knowing the reason why a cure works is different than wanting to know the reason of a natural phenomenon.
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Common Sence
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2007, 10:46:26 AM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"
What are you talking about? When did I say it did?

You implied that any experiment conducted by a scientist that believed the Earth was round must be rejected by the flat Earth community.

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Indeed some people do.

Who?

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Explain how.

An orange is round, whereas a banana is not. A Porsche can be millions of dollars, whereas I can by a crappy Nissan for a couple ten thousand. Does that mean that the latter of both examples do not exist or that they cannot be classified similarly? No.


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No I don't, when did I say that?

Unless you can convince me that you can prove HOW gravity works, I'm forced to believe you're conceding to that point.


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I'm not saying it has to be, I'm saying it is.

How do you know?


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Gravity pulls you towards the point of 0 gravity, which in our case is the center of the earth, since you are obviously not in the center of the earth I'd say there's something stopping you. And if you want to disrupt it, then  all you have to do is increase the distance between the 2 objects, but I don't see why the force should ever disapear. Magnetism does the same thing, erecting barriers will not stop the force from being there, the attractive effect will always be there, putting up barrier will not change that. As long as the force is strong enough, the attraction will take place, there's nothing magical about that.

Magnetism does NOT do the same thing. The force can be disrupted by obstacles AS WELL as distance. The force doesn't dissipate immediately when barriers are placed in front of it, but it gets weaker. For gravity, the same cannot be said.

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Observable phenomenons have nothing to do with board games. If you think they do, then you are stupid.

I'll make a mental note that humor is no longer acceptable in this forum.

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I don't need to assume it, that's what happens. Those aren't MY assumptions, it's what observable in our universe. And you're not really demonstrating that it isn't.

By the solid logical fact that I can't disprove something's existence, and yet you are not proving that it does exist, it should then be validly assumed that it doesn't exist until you prove that it does. Simple logic there, buddy.

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What bowl are you talking about, and how would you know how big it is?

The Earth disc is basically shaped like a bowl (flat bottom, but it's got the ice wall around the edges), and we know it's really big, because it would have to be in order for it to work, and seeing as we're here, we know that it does work if the Flat Earth Theory is correct.

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How and why are not the same word and are not synonyms.

In this matter, however, they're asking the same question, and you're simply avoiding the point.

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Gravity CAN be explained, it already has been. Now, as for knowing, WHY gravity exists and does what it does, what would we gain from knowing that?

And this I have answered. If you don't know why gravity works, then how can you claim that you know that it does? If gravity has no explanation, and yet acceleration obviously does, then wouldn't it appease the scientific method to take the theory with the least assumptions (gravity being a very large one at that)?

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That's because any smart person can figure it out. It does it by being there. THAT'S how it does it. When mass isn't there, it doesn't bend space.

That wasn't really the question. Why does it bend space?

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The explanation of how gravity works has been given already many times, you are just denying that explanation. What causes of gravity  is mass. You are asking about the cause of that cause, which is no longer how gravity works but "how the thing that causes gravity" works.

And YOU are just avoiding he question at hand by overcomplicating things that you can't explain. You absolutely must concede on this point: You don't know how or why gravity works. You only pretend to know that mass attracts other mass, though I see no proof of this, nor why this should ever happen.

Honestly, gravity is just a massive assumption (best pun ever).

~D-DRaw

Common Sence
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2007, 11:08:48 AM »
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
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Observable phenomenons have nothing to do with board games. If you think they do, then you are stupid.

I'll make a mental note that humor is no longer acceptable in this forum.


And Diego doesn't know an RPG from a board game.