For the SE - Can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area?

In the August eclipse, where is the 2,000 miles lighter shadow of the moon on the earth?

On the earth. Didn't you see it?

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 09:47:24 AM

In the August eclipse, where is the 2,000 miles lighter shadow of the moon on the earth?

On the earth. Didn't you see it?

The question is not if I seen it, because I could have not, I live in Europe, but the question is why did NASA not show it on it's map?

That is the question to ask!

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 31, 2018, 11:03:03 AM

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 09:47:24 AM

In the August eclipse, where is the 2,000 miles lighter shadow of the moon on the earth?

On the earth. Didn't you see it?

The question is not if I seen it, because I could have not, I live in Europe, but the question is why did NASA not show it on it's map?

That is the question to ask!

What do you mean "doesn't show"?
First of all,they explain how and why  there's lighter band around, and why it exists.

And there are images of gradual darkening from outside of the shadow inward.

Have you seen this?

On the left is simplified diagram, not to scale.
On the right is shape of the Moon shadow on Earth. You can see lighter shade around darker middle.

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 11:06:09 AM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 31, 2018, 11:03:03 AM

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 09:47:24 AM

In the August eclipse, where is the 2,000 miles lighter shadow of the moon on the earth?

On the earth. Didn't you see it?

The question is not if I seen it, because I could have not, I live in Europe, but the question is why did NASA not show it on it's map?

That is the question to ask!

What do you mean "doesn't show"?
First of all,they explain how and why  there's lighter band around, and why it exists.

And there are images of gradual darkening from outside of the shadow inward.

Have you seen this?

On the left is simplified diagram, not to scale.
On the right is shape of the Moon shadow on Earth. You can see lighter shade around darker middle.

All that you have shown is CGI, no actual photos

This fella's either dumb as weed or he's trolling. This is no longer a level discussion.

This fella's either dumb as weed or he's trolling. This is no longer a level discussion.

No, he actually thinks he won.

Quote

The lighter shadow is still smaller than the object, (it's a bit less defined, but I see it as 120mm maximum) just not as small as the umbral shadow.

The lighter shadow starts around the 8 mm and ends off the photo, which would make it at 130 mm, which is larger or the same size as the object, thus this photo does not prove your cause

It starts around 8 cm and ends around 20 cm, which would make it about 120 mm, which is smaller than the original object. 

Besides, your initial objection was to the 70 mile shadow of the moon, which is the umbra.  Rab gave you an example of an umbra that is smaller than the object casting it, using only sunlight, exactly as you requested.  Deciding suddenly that you want to examine the penumbra is, as others have pointed out, moving the goal posts.

You asked for proof of something you thought was impossible.  It was given to you.  Admit you were wrong gracefully and come away smarter than when you started.  You're just making yourself look like a bigger ass arguing for a point that has been photographically proven to be incorrect.

Quote from: Macarios on January 31, 2018, 11:21:05 AM

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 11:06:09 AM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 31, 2018, 11:03:03 AM

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 09:47:24 AM

In the August eclipse, where is the 2,000 miles lighter shadow of the moon on the earth?

On the earth. Didn't you see it?

The question is not if I seen it, because I could have not, I live in Europe, but the question is why did NASA not show it on it's map?

That is the question to ask!

What do you mean "doesn't show"?
First of all,they explain how and why  there's lighter band around, and why it exists.

And there are images of gradual darkening from outside of the shadow inward.

Have you seen this?

On the left is simplified diagram, not to scale.
On the right is shape of the Moon shadow on Earth. You can see lighter shade around darker middle.

All that you have shown is CGI, no actual photos

Is something different happening in reality? What? :-)

In the August eclipse, where is the 2,000 miles lighter shadow of the moon on the earth?

Everywhere that had a partial eclipse.  Thank you for proving you've done zero research.

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 31, 2018, 11:03:03 AM

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 09:47:24 AM

In the August eclipse, where is the 2,000 miles lighter shadow of the moon on the earth?

On the earth. Didn't you see it?

The question is not if I seen it, because I could have not, I live in Europe, but the question is why did NASA not show it on it's map?

That is the question to ask!

why do you lie?
Multiple sites showed where there would be a partial eclipse, including the two I posted earlier in the thread.

https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/penumbra-shadow.html
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-sci-solar-eclipse-2017-map/

The question is not if I seen it, because I could have not, I live in Europe, but the question is why did NASA not show it on it's map?

That is the question to ask!

What map? I'd like to see the one you're referencing. You might not be looking at a map that has the information you want.

Just because you haven't looked in the right place doesn't mean the info doesn't exist.

Can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area

I said shadow, not umbra

The photo is cut from the sized and thus a true measurement can't be done, but the lighter shadow does go past the 20.5 mark and the pass the 8.5 mark. Look at the 45 degree angle of the image, top right hand side. The shadow does go further out and thus larger than 130 mm

Quote

Can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area

I said shadow, not umbra

I guess you'll have to define what you mean by shadow.

I had stated originally shadow.

The shadow is everything and yet you still have failed to provide a photo that has a smaller shadow with 1 light source or should I say the SUN

Quote

Can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area

I said shadow, not umbra

Oops, looks like you forgot to quote what you said 2 lines later!  Here, I'll do it for you:

This is for the SE out there, can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area from a single light source?

You might ask why?

Because the moon casted a shadow of only 70 miles in diameter last August in the eclipse.

You specifically expressed an objection to the 70 mile diameter shadow, which is the size of the umbra.  Do you ever get tired moving those goal posts around so much and so far?

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 12:06:00 PM

Quote

Can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area

I said shadow, not umbra

Oops, looks like you forgot to quote what you said 2 lines later!  Here, I'll do it for you:

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 29, 2018, 02:37:15 PM

This is for the SE out there, can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area from a single light source?

You might ask why?

Because the moon casted a shadow of only 70 miles in diameter last August in the eclipse.

You specifically expressed an objection to the 70 mile diameter shadow, which is the size of the umbra.  Do you ever get tired moving those goal posts around so much and so far?

NO, the only shadow that NASA showed us was the 70 mile diameter, which you call umbra, not me.
Do you ever get tired moving those goal posts around so much and so far?

Quote from: EvolvedMantisShrimp on January 30, 2018, 02:58:09 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on January 30, 2018, 02:44:39 PM

Still, even though there are bright clouds around, I'll give it a go.

It would be easiest to check at a zenith: a place and a time when the Sun is directly overhead. Currently, the Sun's zenith is at a latitude of 17° 26' S.

Yes, the clouds cleared and I made a better "shadow objects" (a 127 mm coarse carbide sanding disc) and mounted it about 2.2 m high.

Here are the results of the shadow cast by the disc in direct sunlight:

Shadow Disc Size = 127 mm

Shadow, Umbra Size = 108 mm

WTF kinda crap you trying to pull Geoff?

You think we cannot read the ruler?

You start at 10 mm for the photo on the left, 9mm for the photo on the right, who knows if the ruler is level in your hands for both photos (could be tilted left or right for all we know)...

Obvious you and all the other bots cannot read the ruler either...

Honest bots would bring that shit down in an instant...

WHAT A MASSIVE FAIL!!!

LMMFAO!!!

Shadow same size as object!!!

NEXT!!!

I had stated originally shadow.

The shadow is everything and yet you still have failed to provide a photo that has a smaller shadow with 1 light source or should I say the SUN

Dude you are dense.

From a point source of light that is larger than the object casting the shadow (sun, moon) the umbra will always be smaller than the object and the penumbra will always be bigger

If you don't think this is true then you clearly don't understand how to draw straight lines

Quote from: ItsRoundIPromise on January 31, 2018, 12:19:43 PM

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 12:06:00 PM

Quote

Can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area

I said shadow, not umbra

Oops, looks like you forgot to quote what you said 2 lines later!  Here, I'll do it for you:

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 29, 2018, 02:37:15 PM

This is for the SE out there, can an object cast a shadow smaller than its cross section area from a single light source?

You might ask why?

Because the moon casted a shadow of only 70 miles in diameter last August in the eclipse.

You specifically expressed an objection to the 70 mile diameter shadow, which is the size of the umbra.  Do you ever get tired moving those goal posts around so much and so far?

NO, the only shadow that NASA showed us was the 70 mile diameter, which you call umbra, not me.
Do you ever get tired moving those goal posts around so much and so far?

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4314

Thanks SpaceCadet.

I assume you'll be typing an apology to me InFlatEarth?

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4314

Your movie was released on Released on September 9, 2015, days after the event when people where talking about the size of the shadow. In official graphics before the event, their was no penumbra shown as from the below photo which was taken from NASA websites https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/eclipse-maps

WTF kinda crap you trying to pull Geoff?

You think we cannot read the ruler?

You start at 10 mm for the photo on the left, 9mm for the photo on the right, who knows if the ruler is level in your hands for both photos (could be tilted left or right for all we know)...

Obvious you and all the other bots cannot read the ruler either...

Honest bots would bring that shit down in an instant...

WHAT A MASSIVE FAIL!!!

LMMFAO!!!

Shadow same size as object!!!

NEXT!!!

I'm assuming this is a joke?

Quote from: SpaceCadet on January 31, 2018, 12:27:33 PM

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4314

Your movie was released on Released on September 9, 2015, days after the event when people where talking about the size of the shadow. In official graphics before the event, their was no penumbra shown as from the below photo which was taken from NASA websites https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/eclipse-maps

Thats because as you can see in the small scale version, the penumbra is very faint as it moves away from the umbra (true shadow) and rapidly becomes very hard if not impossible to see

It would be like a cloud moving over the sun perhaps, or a faint dimming of ambient light

The true shadow (the full obstruction of all light from the light source) is the umbra

Quote from: rabinoz on January 30, 2018, 06:10:53 PM

Quote from: EvolvedMantisShrimp on January 30, 2018, 02:58:09 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on January 30, 2018, 02:44:39 PM

Still, even though there are bright clouds around, I'll give it a go.

It would be easiest to check at a zenith: a place and a time when the Sun is directly overhead. Currently, the Sun's zenith is at a latitude of 17° 26' S.

Yes, the clouds cleared and I made a better "shadow objects" (a 127 mm coarse carbide sanding disc) and mounted it about 2.2 m high.

Here are the results of the shadow cast by the disc in direct sunlight:

Shadow Disc Size = 127 mm

Shadow, Umbra Size = 108 mm

WTF kinda crap you trying to pull Geoff?

You think we cannot read the ruler?

You start at 10 mm for the photo on the left, 9mm for the photo on the right, who knows if the ruler is level in your hands for both photos (could be tilted left or right for all we know)...

Obvious you and all the other bots cannot read the ruler either...

Honest bots would bring that shit down in an instant...

WHAT A MASSIVE FAIL!!!

LMMFAO!!!

Shadow same size as object!!!

NEXT!!!

Obvious you don't want to read

Quote from: SpaceCadet on January 31, 2018, 12:27:33 PM

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4314

Your movie was released on Released on September 9, 2015, days after the event when people where talking about the size of the shadow. In official graphics before the event, their was no penumbra shown as from the below photo which was taken from NASA websites https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/eclipse-maps

There's your problem, dude. You're looking at the wrong map.

Quote from: SpaceCadet on January 31, 2018, 12:27:33 PM

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4314

Your movie was released on Released on September 9, 2015, days after the event when people where talking about the size of the shadow. In official graphics before the event, their was no penumbra shown as from the below photo which was taken from NASA websites

You don't make a very good troll.

The movie was released in 2015 for an eclipse in 2017 and you call that "days after the event"? Dude, Brotherhood of the dumbasses has already been taken. Don't keep trying for that name.

Quote from: SpaceCadet on January 31, 2018, 12:27:33 PM

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4314

Your movie was released on Released on September 9, 2015, days after the event when people where talking about the size of the shadow.

September 9, 2015 is days AFTER August 21, 2017?

Can you run the math on that for me?

My mistake about the year, did not see that, but want to explain this



Shadow larger than the object or the same

Shadow larger than the object or the same

Once again, you'll have to define what you mean when you use the word "shadow."

Quote from: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 12:46:39 PM

Shadow larger than the object or the same

Once again, you'll have to define what you mean when you use the word "shadow."

NO, once again you are trying to talk your way out of it. If you did not understand the question, then you ask for an explanation what I mean.

And again, can you show me a shadow (ALL) that is smaller than the cross section of the object in sunlight?