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The Holocaust didn't happen.

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Ubuntu

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2006, 08:32:52 PM »
Why is it always the Holocaust? Why can't we deny the invention of the telephone? Or  the construction of the pyramids?
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SoulessWanderer

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2006, 08:52:04 PM »
The telephone was never really invented.

And remember, the Holocaust took 6 million LIVES, not necessarily the number of JEWS. And also, on that note, Stalin's kills are usually factored into this.

In the same, there has never been any viable resource to count the exact number of deaths during that time either, most that place it at 6 million are estimating.

There have only been roughly 2.8 million confirmed deaths attributed to the holocaust itself. Still a great number, but nowhere near 6 million. I'll post the source when I relocate it.
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Red Skull

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2006, 04:38:41 AM »
Quote from: "SoulessWanderer"
The telephone was never really invented.

And remember, the Holocaust took 6 million LIVES, not necessarily the number of JEWS. And also, on that note, Stalin's kills are usually factored into this.

In the same, there has never been any viable resource to count the exact number of deaths during that time either, most that place it at 6 million are estimating.

There have only been roughly 2.8 million confirmed deaths attributed to the holocaust itself. Still a great number, but nowhere near 6 million. I'll post the source when I relocate it.

Interesting. I would like to see that source.
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Nomad

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2006, 09:21:56 AM »
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "Yeah, sure..."

Probably Albert Einstein would move back to Germany today...

Why? He belongs in Israel..


How would he belong in Israel?  He came from a Jewish family, but he certainly was not Jewish.

There is such a thing as an ethnic Jew.


Again I ask, why does that mean he belongs in Israel?  I'm "ethnic protestant," does that mean I belong in Southeast USA even though I'm atheist?  You are ridiculous.
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Sara H B Ranson

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2006, 01:26:06 PM »
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "Sara H B Ranson"
It's known as Victor's Justice.

Quoted for truth.

Twice in one lifetime?

When you're hot, you're hot.
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Red Skull

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2006, 02:56:14 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "Yeah, sure..."

Probably Albert Einstein would move back to Germany today...

Why? He belongs in Israel..


How would he belong in Israel?  He came from a Jewish family, but he certainly was not Jewish.

There is such a thing as an ethnic Jew.


Again I ask, why does that mean he belongs in Israel?  I'm "ethnic protestant," does that mean I belong in Southeast USA even though I'm atheist?  You are ridiculous.

There is no such thing as an ethnic protestant.
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beast

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2006, 04:52:54 PM »
Quote from: "SoulessWanderer"
The telephone was never really invented.

And remember, the Holocaust took 6 million LIVES, not necessarily the number of JEWS. And also, on that note, Stalin's kills are usually factored into this.


Actually the total amount of people killed is estimated at around 9,000,000 to 11,000,000 while the total number of Jews killed is estimated at around 5,000,000 to 7,000,000 - usually stated as 6,000,000.

"Stalin's Kills" are not factored into this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Stalin, on the other hand, had around 1,500,000 people killed, and was responsible for the deaths of a varying amount - maybe about 10,000,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin

The holocaust really happened.  People who deny it are wrong.
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Red Skull

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2006, 05:00:06 PM »
Quote from: "beast"

The holocaust really happened.  People who deny it are wrong.

And that, of course, is your opinion. I think you are wrong.
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beast

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2006, 05:05:30 PM »
There is overwhelming evidence in support of the claim that Holocaust happened.  For example one of my neighbours is a Jewish woman whose parents were killed in the Holocaust.  Do you honestly believe that this woman is lying to me about that?

The evidence that the holocaust did not happen is so weak and usually misleading that anybody who takes that side is clearly deluded.
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Red Skull

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2006, 05:11:30 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
There is overwhelming evidence in support of the claim that Holocaust happened.  For example one of my neighbours is a Jewish woman whose parents were killed in the Holocaust.  Do you honestly believe that this woman is lying to me about that?

The evidence that the holocaust did not happen is so weak and usually misleading that anybody who takes that side is clearly deluded.

I do not believe that it "didn't happen". I simply believe it is exaggerated.

Edit: beast, I know you're not an FE'er, but to all the FE'ers: Do you honestly believe every government official all over the planet is lying to you about the shape of the world?

beast, why don't you ask that question to the FE'ers?
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beast

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2006, 05:14:20 PM »
I am a FEer.

edit: Also why would every government official know what shape the world really is?  Surely only a small amount of people actually need to be in on the conspiracy.  Do you honestly think that it is necessary for the political advisor to a member of the Tasmanian Parliament to know what shape the world is?
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SoulessWanderer

  • 20
The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2006, 06:12:11 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SoulessWanderer"
The telephone was never really invented.

And remember, the Holocaust took 6 million LIVES, not necessarily the number of JEWS. And also, on that note, Stalin's kills are usually factored into this.


Actually the total amount of people killed is estimated at around 9,000,000 to 11,000,000 while the total number of Jews killed is estimated at around 5,000,000 to 7,000,000 - usually stated as 6,000,000.

"Stalin's Kills" are not factored into this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Stalin, on the other hand, had around 1,500,000 people killed, and was responsible for the deaths of a varying amount - maybe about 10,000,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin

The holocaust really happened.  People who deny it are wrong.


Figures provided by WIKIPEDIA.

Sorry, not a valid source. I could change it to that 1 million of the 1.5 that Stalin had killed farted before death.
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beast

  • 2997
The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2006, 06:25:40 PM »
Well why don't you do that and then see how long it takes to be changed.

My book "A History In Fragments: Europe in the Twentieth Century" by Dr Richard Vinen - who is on the academic staff at King's College - University of London and was also a fellow at Trinity College - Cambridge University - puts forward those same approximate figures.  He claims that about 6 million Jews were killed as part of a wider campaign against "inferiority" which killed about 10 million people (part 2; chapter 8 - Genocide - pg 240).  He also claims that Stalin directly killed around 1.5 million people and was responsible for the deaths of millions more (part 4, chapter 1 - How Communism Lost - pg 475)  The book was first published in Great Britain in 2000 by Little, Brown and Company and my edition was printed by Abacus in 2002.

Here is the Amazon.com listing for the book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Fragments-Europe-Twentieth-Century/dp/0316853747

Is that a valid source?
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SoulessWanderer

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2006, 06:30:31 PM »
Its virtually impossible to count the number of deaths with an event like that. It could have been closer to 20 million or as little as 500,000. Thats what happens when you INCINERATE bodies as well as bury them.

Unprovable, why argue?
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beast

  • 2997
The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2006, 06:43:51 PM »
Unprovable  :?

Don't you think places have records of the population of the towns, electoral records, census records etc?

How do you think they know that over 275,000 people died in the boxing day tsunami.  How could they count all the bodies that got washed into the sea?
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SoulessWanderer

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2006, 07:15:46 PM »
Your talking something that happened in a day of "modern" technology, none the less of an event that occurred to a people group that was not in the process of being shuffled about.

There is no records based way to count all the people that died in the holocaust. As unfortunate as it is, its true. The tsunami's victims can be counted within a pretty small margin of error due to modern records keeping practices. Think of how many people arrived at Ellis Island back in the early 1900's that didn't have any paperwork to identify them of even existing to their native land. THen think of the Jew's in the holocaust. They never even had a "homeland" until after WWII, they had been constantly focibly relocating for decades. Thats why it could have been nearly any number.
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beast

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2006, 07:24:33 PM »
Quote from: "SoulessWanderer"
Your talking something that happened in a day of "modern" technology, none the less of an event that occurred to a people group that was not in the process of being shuffled about.


That doesn't make any sense.  Re-write it and learn how to construct sentences.  Preferably the latter first.

Quote

There is no records based way to count all the people that died in the holocaust. As unfortunate as it is, its true. The tsunami's victims can be counted within a pretty small margin of error due to modern records keeping practices. Think of how many people arrived at Ellis Island back in the early 1900's that didn't have any paperwork to identify them of even existing to their native land. THen think of the Jew's in the holocaust. They never even had a "homeland" until after WWII, they had been constantly focibly relocating for decades. Thats why it could have been nearly any number.


If you're going to make this ludicrous claims then put forward some evidence to show why this would be the case.  The Jews in question had been living in Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland for generations.  We're also talking about central Europe where, despite the previous war, people had wealth, government and technology, as opposed to Ache where the people dying were peasants.  The wealth of the Jews was part of the reason why Hitler attacked them.  There can be no question that the record keeping in those areas was as accurate as the record keeping now.  We're talking about the 1930s developed Europe here.  You will find great accounts of this in many history books, including the one I sourced earlier.  If you question evidence you haven't seen it just makes you look ignorant.
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SoulessWanderer

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2006, 07:38:44 PM »
The only thing you have proven in your various threads is that you are yet another internet douchebag who will only argue just to spurn a conversation into oblivion.

If YOU can prove the record keeping was accurate at the time, by all means do so. If you can prove that EVERY SINGLE JEW was accounted for by documentation, I will stand down. Until then your just another arrogant debator who cannot meet in the middle and at least agree that there is no way to fully account for all the people died there whether it be less or more, the relavent fact is that a SHITLOAD of people died horrific deaths. Its becoming a moot point.
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beast

  • 2997
The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2006, 07:48:08 PM »
So what you're saying is that you've made some stupid claims and you have no evidence to actually back those claims up.  Thanks for the clarification.
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Curious

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Re: The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2006, 08:01:31 PM »
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "Yeah, sure..."

However, you're right. People often think that it's all over, but things like that can happen everywhere and anytime (e.g. what the Americans did to the Indians) - so we shouldn't forget and keep our eyes open. The Holocaust didn't show us anything about the Germans, Hitler or whoever, but about the whole humanity.

It's in our nature. Why fight nature?


Because it's not our nature.  Look around you, the majority do not behave that way, do not want these things to happen.

But it is natural to avoid conflict, and ignore things until it comes to affect you directly, and by then it is normally too late.  That piece of human nature is the challenge, and we must learn to take off the blinders.
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Red Skull

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2006, 06:23:02 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
I am a FEer.

edit: Also why would every government official know what shape the world really is?  Surely only a small amount of people actually need to be in on the conspiracy.  Do you honestly think that it is necessary for the political advisor to a member of the Tasmanian Parliament to know what shape the world is?

I'm holding a gun to your head, and I ask you "What shape is the world?" And you know I have the right answer, and that I will shoot you if you guess it wrong, would you honestly answer "The world is flat."? I seriously doubt you would take that risk, because it is more likely that the world is spherical.

And I can't be arsed replying to the other things you wrote. I don't believe the Holocaust was exaggerated because it's logical, I believe it is because it's fun to provoke people. So in the end your arguments on why the Holocaust wasn't exaggerated would own mine.
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6strings

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2006, 08:55:02 AM »
Quote
I'm holding a gun to your head, and I ask you "What shape is the world?" And you know I have the right answer, and that I will shoot you if you guess it wrong, would you honestly answer "The world is flat."? I seriously doubt you would take that risk, because it is more likely that the world is spherical.

This scenario is so flawed it hurts.  First, clearly he doesn't know you have the right answer (ie: that the world is spherical), or he wouldn't believe the earth is round.  Next, you assume that you have the right answer.  The wager here isn't whether or not the earth is truly flat, but whether the psychopath holding a gun to your head and asking you questions about the shape of the earth thinks it is.

Quote
I don't believe the Holocaust was exaggerated because it's logical, I believe it is because it's fun to provoke people.

For the record, this makes you a total dick.
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Ubuntu

  • 2392
The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2006, 10:54:21 AM »
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "beast"

The holocaust really happened.  People who deny it are wrong.

And that, of course, is your opinion. I think you are wrong.


Not opinion...

FACT
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Red Skull

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2006, 06:14:51 PM »
Quote from: "Ubuntu"

Not opinion...

FACT

Quote from: "Red Skull"

And that, of course, is your opinion. I think you are wrong.
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Nomad

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2006, 06:26:06 PM »
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Quote from: "Red Skull"
Quote from: "Yeah, sure..."

Probably Albert Einstein would move back to Germany today...

Why? He belongs in Israel..


How would he belong in Israel?  He came from a Jewish family, but he certainly was not Jewish.

There is such a thing as an ethnic Jew.


Again I ask, why does that mean he belongs in Israel?  I'm "ethnic protestant," does that mean I belong in Southeast USA even though I'm atheist?  You are ridiculous.

There is no such thing as an ethnic protestant.


There is such a thing as being from protestant background, though.  Three of my uncles are Lutheran ministers.  My mother and father were both Lutheran.  I am atheist.  You are basically alluding that even though I deny the existence of a personal god, I am still Lutheran and belong in the Bible Belt?  With Jews and Israel, it is the same thing.  Albert Einstein was not Jewish, and I don't see how you can say that he belonged in Israel.

How racist can you get?
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Erasmus

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2006, 08:01:02 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Albert Einstein was not Jewish,


Quote from: "Albert Einstein"
A Jew who sheds his faith along the way, or who even picks up a different one, is still a Jew.
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Nomad

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2006, 08:16:38 PM »
What so you think he belongs in Israel too?  What point are you trying to make, Erasmus?
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Quote from: PizzaPlanet on March 24, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
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Red Skull

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2006, 08:55:56 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
What so you think he belongs in Israel too?  What point are you trying to make, Erasmus?

You're pretty dense.

There are religious Jews and ethnic Jews, also known as Israelis.
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Nomad

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #88 on: December 31, 2006, 09:03:11 PM »
Bullshit.  They are middle eastern.

At any rate, Albert Einstein is not in that case an "ethnic Jew".
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Quote from: PizzaPlanet on March 24, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
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Erasmus

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The Holocaust didn't happen.
« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2006, 09:06:47 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
At any rate, Albert Einstein is not in that case an "ethnic Jew".


According to ethnology, Einstein, since he came from an ethnically Jewish family, is ethnically Jewish.  According to his own statement, he is... some other kind of Jew.

I'm not drawing any conclusions from that; I'm just stating it.
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