Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'

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Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« on: December 15, 2017, 01:24:27 PM »
What it doesn't mean: digging into antique books to authenticate daydreams with flowery quotations by outmoded writers.

What it does mean: testing by experimentation (determining veracity by personal investigation).

Therefore don't cry foul when someone makes claims about what is visible in the sky because their comment doesn't conform to a cherished dream -- simply test to negate or verify!

Edit: typos.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 01:36:10 PM by Hutton »

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Macarios

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 01:46:03 PM »
You talk about things like verifying where is Sun at sunset for Equinox?

People can simply go and see if it is directly at west, or more to north at that moment.
That simple observation was suggested several times on this forum.
I don't see any Flat Earther went out and measured azimuth.
Was it clearly 270 degrees, or shows something around 300? (315 if you are at Equator, or more if further south.)
Or they did, but strictly avoid talking about it.

If they say it is more to north, they know others will go and see otherwise.

So much about "zetetic".
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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robintex

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 02:33:08 PM »
I think if everyone just regarded this website as just another "spoof website" we'd all just enjoy it for what it is ! LOL
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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rabinoz

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 02:34:45 PM »
To most flat earthers 'Zetetic' seems to mean, "the earth looks flat, therefore it must be flat" and then bend, twist, guess to explain away all other observations.

Just read Rowbotham's ENaG for explanations of sunsets etc.
He also draws totally incorrect conclusions from other's reports of Southern Hemisphere distances and star motions.

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gotham

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 03:21:42 PM »
Zetetic methodology allows for the arrival of truth instead of "hypothesis testing". This is very powerful.

The workings of Rowbotham & Einstein have both taken a corrective turn, over time.  I happen to recall Einstein, in particular, and how we rather shredded some of his theories while taking applicable courses at university.

Round Earth believers can no longer throw out Einstein's name when searching for evidence thinking it will always suffice.  Yes, the same is said for Rowbotham but they are both in the same boat, hoping to survive historical advancement.     

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robintex

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2017, 03:51:38 PM »
Zetetic methodology allows for the arrival of truth instead of "hypothesis testing". This is very powerful.

The workings of Rowbotham & Einstein have both taken a corrective turn, over time.  I happen to recall Einstein, in particular, and how we rather shredded some of his theories while taking applicable courses at university.

Round Earth believers can no longer throw out Einstein's name when searching for evidence thinking it will always suffice.  Yes, the same is said for Rowbotham but they are both in the same boat, hoping to survive historical advancement.   

Rubbish.
Rowbotham is no where in the same boat as Einstein..
Einstein is a respected name.
Rowbotham is definitely not.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

markjo

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 03:56:37 PM »
Zetetic methodology allows for the arrival of truth instead of "hypothesis testing". This is very powerful.
How so?  Granted, a number of great discoveries have occurred serendipitously (A.K.A., the happy accident), but that tends to be more the exception than the rule. 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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wise

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2017, 04:07:15 PM »
Zetetic methodology allows for the arrival of truth instead of "hypothesis testing". This is very powerful.

The workings of Rowbotham & Einstein have both taken a corrective turn, over time.  I happen to recall Einstein, in particular, and how we rather shredded some of his theories while taking applicable courses at university.

Round Earth believers can no longer throw out Einstein's name when searching for evidence thinking it will always suffice.  Yes, the same is said for Rowbotham but they are both in the same boat, hoping to survive historical advancement.   

Rubbish.
Rowbotham is no where in the same boat as Einstein..
Einstein is a respected name.
Rowbotham is definitely not.

Wrong.

Einstein is a mediatic balloon. He has no credibility in real science. Rowbotham is a real scientist, not a mediatic balloon. Who do media to respect to, doesn't mean anything.
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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 04:24:56 PM »
Quote
Wrong.

Einstein is a mediatic balloon. He has no credibility in real science. Rowbotham is a real scientist, not a mediatic balloon. Who do media to respect to, doesn't mean anything.

I'm surprised you call Einstein a "mediatic balloon" -- aren't balloons round?  Maybe "mediatic pancake" would be more in keeping with your flatophilia.

I can make up bizarre phrases too.  You're an atramental diode.   ::)

You coined a delightful adage, one that should greet everyone at the front gates of Flat-Earth Temple:

"Einstein [ . . . ] has no credibility in real science."

Keep 'em coming.



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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 05:40:06 PM »
Zetetic means proceeding by inquiry.
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robintex

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2017, 05:44:21 PM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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54N

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2017, 06:19:25 PM »
My many years observing of the behaviour of the horizon,  the movement of the night sky, paths of sun and moon,  and the differences when observed from different latitudes have all been 100% zetetic and all show the earth to be approximately spherical.

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robintex

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2017, 06:57:44 PM »
My many years observing of the behaviour of the horizon,  the movement of the night sky, paths of sun and moon,  and the differences when observed from different latitudes have all been 100% zetetic and all show the earth to be approximately spherical.

I don't know if my expereinces could be classed as "Zetetic" , but my expereinces have been similar to yours, at least in observing the horizon, not just at sea but also in the distance of spacing beteween microwave relay stations on land for the optimum height of the antennas . All of these were dependent on being based on the curvature of the earth showing the earth to be approximately spherical.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:02:49 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

Wolvaccine

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 07:06:28 PM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?

Agreed, that's more accomplishments than most people on this board will ever make in life. Regardless of our views, lets face it, how many people will be talking about us centuries after you die? Well, John is in a book, he is immortalised there  8)

Regardless on anyones opinion, Samuel Birley Rowbotham is a legend

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robintex

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 07:15:22 PM »
Quote
Wrong.

Einstein is a mediatic balloon. He has no credibility in real science. Rowbotham is a real scientist, not a mediatic balloon. Who do media to respect to, doesn't mean anything.

I'm surprised you call Einstein a "mediatic balloon" -- aren't balloons round?  Maybe "mediatic pancake" would be more in keeping with your flatophilia.

I can make up bizarre phrases too.  You're an atramental diode.   ::)

You coined a delightful adage, one that should greet everyone at the front gates of Flat-Earth Temple:

"Einstein [ . . . ] has no credibility in real science."

Keep 'em coming.

Could brotherhood have meant "baboon" instead of "balloon"  ?
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

Macarios

  • 2093
Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2017, 04:12:08 AM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?

Agreed, that's more accomplishments than most people on this board will ever make in life. Regardless of our views, lets face it, how many people will be talking about us centuries after you die? Well, John is in a book, he is immortalised there  8)

Regardless on anyones opinion, Samuel Birley Rowbotham is a legend

Exactly.

His greatness is in the same rank as famous Gregor MacGregor, George C Parker, Charles Ponzi and others...
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2017, 04:51:56 PM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?

Agreed, that's more accomplishments than most people on this board will ever make in life. Regardless of our views, lets face it, how many people will be talking about us centuries after you die? Well, John is in a book, he is immortalised there  8)

Regardless on anyones opinion, Samuel Birley Rowbotham is a legend

Exactly.

His greatness is in the same rank as famous Gregor MacGregor, George C Parker, Charles Ponzi and others...

Oh!  Publishing a book earns one "better than other people" status, does it?

Let's add to Macarios' list, there:

Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Ted Kaczynski, Chairman Mao . . . Adolf Hitler . . .

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EvolvedMantisShrimp

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2017, 04:54:59 PM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?

Agreed, that's more accomplishments than most people on this board will ever make in life. Regardless of our views, lets face it, how many people will be talking about us centuries after you die? Well, John is in a book, he is immortalised there  8)

Regardless on anyones opinion, Samuel Birley Rowbotham is a legend

Exactly.

His greatness is in the same rank as famous Gregor MacGregor, George C Parker, Charles Ponzi and others...

Oh!  Publishing a book earns one "better than other people" status, does it?

Let's add to Macarios' list, there:

Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Ted Kaczynski, Chairman Mao . . . Adolf Hitler . . .

Vanna White
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markjo

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2017, 05:19:59 PM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?

Agreed, that's more accomplishments than most people on this board will ever make in life. Regardless of our views, lets face it, how many people will be talking about us centuries after you die? Well, John is in a book, he is immortalised there  8)

Regardless on anyones opinion, Samuel Birley Rowbotham is a legend

Exactly.

His greatness is in the same rank as famous Gregor MacGregor, George C Parker, Charles Ponzi and others...
P.T. Barnum
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2017, 05:43:26 PM »
Quote

Vanna White, P.T. Barnum . . .


Fantastic.

I almost forgot Harold Camping.

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rabinoz

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2017, 06:18:05 PM »
Zetetic means proceeding by inquiry.
Sorry about the length, but Rowbotham is a bit hard to condense!

So what inquiry led Samuel Birley Rowbotham to assert that the sun, moon and stars circled above the earth? All I can find is:
Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham
CHAPTER VI.
THE SUN'S MOTION, CONCENTRIC WITH THE POLAR CENTRE.
As the earth has been proved to be fixed, the motion of the sun is a visible reality. If it be observed from any latitude a few degrees north of the line called the "Tropic of Cancer," and for any period before or after the time of southing, or passing the meridian, it will be seen to describe an arc of a circle. The following simple experiment will be interesting as demonstrating the fact that the sun's path is concentric with the centre of the earth's surface. Let the observer take his stand, half-an-hour before sunrise (in the month of June, or any of the summer months will be better than winter, as the results will be more striking), on the head of either the old or the new pier at Brighton, in Sussex. Let him draw a line due north and south; and a second line due east and west, across the first. Now stand with his back to the north. Being thus at his post and ready for observation, let him watch carefully for the sun's first appearance above the horizon; and he will find that the point where the sun is first observed is considerably to the north of east, or the line drawn at right angles to north and south. If he will continue to watch the sun's progress until noon, it will be seen to ascend in a curve southwards until it reaches the meridian; and thence to descend in a westerly curve until it arrives at the horizon, and to set considerably to the north of due west, as shown in the following diagram, fig. 59. An object which moves in an arc of a circle, and

FIG. 59.
returns to a given point in a given time, as the sun does to the meridian, must, of necessity, have completed a circular path in the twenty-four hours which constitute a solar day.

From: ENaG, CHAPTER VI. THE SUN'S MOTION, CONCENTRIC WITH THE POLAR CENTRE.
That observation, done from one location at one time of the year is supposedly sufficient "inquiry" to convince Samuel Birley Rowbotham and apparently all future flat earthers that the sun circles a fixed hieght above the earth about "the northern hub".

But, what about the Southern Hemisphere? Samuel Birley Rowbotham might have been ignorant of it, but modern flat earthers have no such excuse.

I live in the Southern Hemisphere a few degrees south of the line called the "Tropic of Capricorn,", so I could make a similar "inquiry".
In fact I have, and it is now just two days after our Summer Solstice, so I have just as much right to say,
"let him watch carefully for the sun's first appearance above the horizon; and he will find that the point where the sun is first observed is considerably to the south of east, or the line drawn at right angles to north and south. If he will continue to watch the sun's progress until noon, it will be seen to ascend in a curve northwards until it reaches the meridian; and thence to descend in a westerly curve until it arrives at the horizon, and to set considerably to the south of due west, as shown in the above diagram, fig. 59."

So, does the sun circle about a "northern hub" or about a "southern hub"? Tom Bishop claims it circles about both!

In other words, Samuel Birley Rowbotham simply did not proceed with suffient inquiry to get the full answer.
Yet, modern flat earthers still accept Rowbotham's clearly incorrect results.

Then he claims "that all the visible luminaries in the firmament are contained within a vertical distance of 1000 statute miles".

Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham
CHAPTER V.
THE TRUE DISTANCE OF THE SUN
The above method of measuring distances applies equally to the moon and stars; and it is easy to demonstrate, to place it beyond the possibility of error, so long as assumed premises are excluded, that the moon is nearer to the earth than the sun, and that all the visible luminaries in the firmament are contained within a vertical distance of 1000 statute miles. From which it unavoidably follows that the magnitude of the sun, moon, stars, and comets is comparatively small--much smaller than the earth from which they are measured, and to which, therefore, they must of necessity be secondary. and subservient. They cannot, indeed, be anything more than "centres of action," throwing down light, and chemical products upon the earth.

From: ENaG, CHAPTER V.THE TRUE DISTANCE OF THE SUN.
Then what inquiry lead more recent flat earthers to assert that Rowbotham was quite wrong and that the sun was about 3000 miles above the earth.

Something seems severely amiss with the flat-earthers application of 'Zeteticism'.

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Username

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2017, 06:54:16 PM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?

Agreed, that's more accomplishments than most people on this board will ever make in life. Regardless of our views, lets face it, how many people will be talking about us centuries after you die? Well, John is in a book, he is immortalised there  8)

Regardless on anyones opinion, Samuel Birley Rowbotham is a legend
Quite a few over the years actually. I am immortalized by my work, not by mention of it however.
Quantum Ab Hoc

1 + 1 = 2
"The above proposition is occasionally useful." - Bertrand Russell

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Username

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2017, 08:34:26 PM »
To OP:

Zetetic: If you have to ask, then you already know.
Quantum Ab Hoc

1 + 1 = 2
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Nightsky

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2017, 01:21:53 AM »
I think an apology is due to Samuel Birley Rowbotham

After all, these are his accomplishments:
An accomplished organizer : Founder of The Flat Earth Society
An intellectual person: Holder of MD Degree  , a  skilled physician,  known as Dr. S. Birley, inventor of a magic elixor known to be guaranteed to cure all the diseases known to man or beast.
Holder of PhD Degree for his intellect
Graduate of  University of Edinburgh
Known for his scientitic knowledge, known  as Parallax
Accomplished author : Earth Not A Globe
A skilled orator of the truth that the earth is flat
How could one argue against  such a genius ?

Agreed, that's more accomplishments than most people on this board will ever make in life. Regardless of our views, lets face it, how many people will be talking about us centuries after you die? Well, John is in a book, he is immortalised there  8)

Regardless on anyones opinion, Samuel Birley Rowbotham is a legend
Quite a few over the years actually. I am immortalized by my work, not by mention of it however.

So immortal John, do you have any Zetetic type quotes in regard to the latest Space X launch?
You can call me Gwyneth
I said that
Oh for the love of- Logical formulation:
FET is wrong, unsupported by evidence, and most models are refuted on multiple fronts; those that aren't tend not to make enough predictions to be realistically falsifiable
Jane said these

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54N

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Re: Abuse of the Word 'Zetetic'
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2017, 07:26:18 AM »
My many years observing of the behaviour of the horizon,  the movement of the night sky, paths of sun and moon,  and the differences when observed from different latitudes have all been 100% zetetic and all show the earth to be approximately spherical.
I don't know if my expereinces could be classed as "Zetetic" , but my expereinces have been similar to yours, at least in observing the horizon, not just at sea but also in the distance of spacing beteween microwave relay stations on land for the optimum height of the antennas . All of these were dependent on being based on the curvature of the earth showing the earth to be approximately spherical.
I'd never even heard of the word until encountering my first flat earth nutter sometime last year,  and I doubt I'd use it in any other context than earth shape discussion,   but it is handy to speak the same language as them!