The world's most accurate map

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #120 on: January 04, 2018, 11:19:39 PM »
Calculatin of the speed Method will be changed accordingly to Sam Hill's suggest:

here it seems that the speeds are proportional to the distance. for example, a slowly moving A319 in its general direction can travel at 50% faster than its normal speed when directed to a far route. Or a B744 aircraft can go slower in nearby routes, though much faster than others.

We have already told you why this happens.  A short route and a long route both have a time at the beginning where the plane is taking off slowly, climbing to cruise altitude slowly, and accelerating up to cruising speed.  During that entire time, its speed is lower than cruising speed.  Then at the end of the flight it has to slow down, descend, and land, all of which is again lower than cruising speed.  No matter how far you are eventually flying, this phase of flight takes the same amount of time and distance.  The data at Flightaware shows that these two flight phases take about half an hour total.  On a two hour flight, a quarter of the flight time (25%) is at lower speed, which dramatically lowers your average speed.  On a transatlantic flight of ten to twelve hours, 5% or less of the total time is at lower speed, so the average speed is much closer to cruising speed.

Yeah you and some others told it but nobody put forwarded an understandable data. Now I'll consider your claim about 30 minutes and try to formulate the speeds depend on flight times.

Good, I'm happy to have helped!  Here is an illustration of what I'm talking about.  The image below has the altitude (green line) and speed (yellow line) profiles for two regularly scheduled commercial flights, to which I have added color bars to highlight the portions of the flight that were below cruising speed (pink) and at cruising speed (yellow).  The upper profile is for the two hour Dallas-to-Denver flight you linked to.  Notice the proportion of the flight that was at cruising speed.  The bottom profile is the current longest-duration commercial flight, from Doha to Auckland, some 16 hours.  Notice how a much greater percentage of the flight time is at cruising speed.  This will raise the average speed for the longer flight.


It is not determined which method will be used for correcting the speeds. But the old speed values are not valid anymore, this is obvious.


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #121 on: January 06, 2018, 06:29:46 AM »
As a first try, we arrived that shape:



Pre calculated distances:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.073kms. +-7%
Los Angeles - Chicago : 2.769kms. +-3%
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.221 kms. +-7%

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.168kms. +-12%
Dallas- Atlanta: 1369 kms. +-6%
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.583kms. +-8%


Distances on the map:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.074 kms
Los Angeles - Chicago :  2.769 kms
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.222 kms

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.028 kms
Dallas- Atlanta: 1.230 kms
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.723 kms

Distances map/calculated/Average mistake

3.073/3.074 = 0%
2.769/2.769 = 0%
1.221/1.222 =0%
2.168/2.028 = 7%
1369/1230 = 11%
1583/1723= 9%

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Add in systemic errors and your overall errrors are are so large, your results are meaningless.

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #122 on: January 06, 2018, 10:17:46 AM »


Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Can you take any four locatioms he has disatances for and show if it is a flat or curved manifold?

Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #123 on: January 06, 2018, 01:51:49 PM »
As a first try, we arrived that shape:



Pre calculated distances:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.073kms. +-7%
Los Angeles - Chicago : 2.769kms. +-3%
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.221 kms. +-7%

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.168kms. +-12%
Dallas- Atlanta: 1369 kms. +-6%
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.583kms. +-8%


Distances on the map:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.074 kms
Los Angeles - Chicago :  2.769 kms
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.222 kms

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.028 kms
Dallas- Atlanta: 1.230 kms
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.723 kms

Distances map/calculated/Average mistake

3.073/3.074 = 0%
2.769/2.769 = 0%
1.221/1.222 =0%
2.168/2.028 = 7%
1369/1230 = 11%
1583/1723= 9%

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Add in systemic errors and your overall errrors are are so large, your results are meaningless.

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Additionally doesn't factor in climb and descent speeds which will differ from cruise. Also doesn't factor in routing considerations such as diversion planning or avoiding unsafe regions.

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #124 on: January 08, 2018, 12:13:52 AM »

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Add in systemic errors and your overall errrors are are so large, your results are meaningless.

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Stop to confuse on me. I crossed out the wrong sentence. This is a bigt hoax. Airplanes are usually going upper side of all mountains. Aircrafts go on average 10.000 kms and fewer 9k. But the highest mountain just 8.800kts. So there is about 1.000 metres to touch down the highest mountain. But someone use it especially for hiding the real size of China. So this is a hoax. I don't want to listen/discuss such offers anymore.

Because as I said numerous time; offers here are not in the form of what I want. Yes I need help but only datas can help me. You and some others just trying to say me "what will I should to do". I already can decide what will I do, but you may help with your workings. There is noone is smarter than me, stay here. This is clear. I take note of the findings, but I can not listen to anybody what I should do. If you put a study into your self, I may take it in account.


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #125 on: January 08, 2018, 06:24:00 AM »
Am I right to assume that the Triangle Inequality Theorem will apply to this exercise?

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #126 on: January 09, 2018, 02:40:37 AM »
Am I right to assume that the Triangle Inequality Theorem will apply to this exercise?

That's not the same thing. We may define our method as "error reduction method by the successive iteration."


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #127 on: January 09, 2018, 01:19:37 PM »
So this is a hoax. I don't want to listen/discuss such offers anymore.

The standard FE response to any robust challenge - call conspiracy/hoax and put fingers in ears and go "la, la, la, I'm not listening".


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rabinoz

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #128 on: January 09, 2018, 07:58:29 PM »

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Add in systemic errors and your overall errrors are are so large, your results are meaningless.

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Stop to confuse on me. I crossed out the wrong sentence. This is a bigt hoax. Airplanes are usually going upper side of all mountains. Aircrafts go on average 10.000 kms and fewer 9k. But the highest mountain just 8.800kts. So there is about 1.000 metres to touch down the highest mountain.
Quote incorrect, 1000 m is not enough in the case of emergency decompression. Hence aircraft divert around the high country of the Himalayas and Tibet. You have been told this before, but you must have a very short memory.
Read:
Quote
Loss of Pressurisation
In the event of loss of pressurisation, the standard procedure is to initiate an emergency descentto the higher of 10,000' or the Minimum En-route Altitude (MEA). If the MEA, as corrected for existing conditions, is above 14,000' (13,000' for some National Aviation Authorities (NAA)), continuing the descent to MOCA would be prudent. If the MOCA is also above 14,000', the route of flight will be limited by the availability of supplemental/emergency oxygen supplies. Flight crew supplemental oxygen is rarely limiting; however, passenger emergency oxygen, when provided by Chemical Oxygen Generators, is only available for a limited amount of time. This time is dependent upon the capacity of the generators that have been installed in the aircraft concerned. Regulations require a minimum passenger oxygen supply of 10 minutes. The majority of chemical generators have a useful life of between 12 and 20 minutes depending upon the type.

For flight over extensive areas of high terrain, the planned route must allow that an emergency descent to 14,000' (13,000' for some NAA) or lower can be safely made prior to exhaustion of the passenger oxygen generators. This descent will occur while following a pre-planned escape route that must also allow further descent to below 10,000' within 30 minutes of emergency oxygen supply exhaustion. In these circumstances, the descent will be progressive, based on the safe altitudes for the specific underlying segement of the escape route and will be flown at maximum forward ground speed. The distance that can be flown to reach 14,000' at the moment of emergency oxygen depletion defines the limits for the planned route of flight. As an example, an aircraft that can achieve an average ground speed of 5nm per minute that has 12 minute oxygen generators must be able to descend to 14,000' within 60nm of the planned route.

From: SKYbraryMountainous Terrain Escape Routes, Loss of Pressurisation
Ignore that and the passengers might suffocate before the plane can get to a low enough altitude for them to breathe outside air.

Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #129 on: January 10, 2018, 01:19:27 PM »
Is there a map to see yet? In something like an orthodox picture form?

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robintex

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #130 on: January 10, 2018, 05:16:29 PM »
Hi guys. In this topic, we'll make a map all together.

A lot of unhealthy rounders object to a possibility of flat map can be done by the way using flying times. We'll prove the opposite is true.

This map will be a proof of a flat map can be done by online. Yes, we'll do it by online. This working will be open to the public. So no one in the future will be able to claim copyright in this map. On the other hand, "the flat earth society" or me has a right to get  copyright in the future.

Ok, lets do it.

Method:

STAGE 1

1- flight times will be taken into account.
2- different speeds will be considered for different aircraft types. for this purpose we'll take an average flying speed for all types of aircrafts and make it a chart.
3- the average speed of the aircrafts will be taken from this chart. This chart will be in this post soon. averaging more than 100 flights per aircraft type will be taken for this purpose. (You may start to part of this project)
4- The distance between cities will be calculated by average flying times between those cities with product to average flying speed of the aircraft. (the speed of that plane will be ignored.)
5-  We'll work airport names instead of city names.

Additional conditions:

PS:
1- While calculating a spped for an airplane, consider the opposite route together. Take consider all the speeds including opposite direction. They may be about 10-20. Then start another aircraft. When all data arrived to 100, get the average speed for that airplane type and give the number to me.
2- Filed speeds on the page is not correct but estimate. For a better estimation use "flight distance/flying time" instead of filed speed.
3- Don't consider the distances less than 500kms.
4- Convert your images to format of 800x... The bigger images seems ugly in many browsers.
Thanks in advance.
5- Inside China, inside Russia and inside Indonesia flights will not get considered. If source and destination is both in China or both in Russia, or both in Indonesia don't get it considered.
6- speeds that can not be calculated because reliable flights can not be found, will be found by comparison with other aircrafts in terms of flight times between the same airports. meanwhile this method will be used for control of calculated aircraft speeds.

Your offers should be in the format of: "links of all the data and your calculations."

Now.

CHART FOR AVERAGE FLIGHT TIMES FOR DIFFERENT TYPE OF AIRPLANES (Only Airbus or Boing if possible)

You may help me by clicking links on the names of airplane types and calculate the average speed for it.

Speeds will be used: (cancelled) Source: LINK

A306   Airbus A300F4-600 722 kms Corrected as 722kmh
A318   Airbus A318 557 kmh  corrected as 627 kmh
A319   Airbus A319 652 kmhcorrected as 627 kmh
A320   Airbus A320 663 kmhcorrected as 627 kmh
A321   Airbus A321 599 kmh  corrected as 627 kmh
A330   Airbus A330 706 kmh corrected as 687 kmh
A332   Airbus A330-200 779 kmhcorrected as 687 kmh
A333   Airbus A330-300 575 kmh corrected as 687 kmh
A343   Airbus A340-300 767 kmhcorrected as 759 kmh
A346   Airbus A340-600 751 kmh corrected as 759 kmh
A359   Airbus A350-900 810 kmh corrected as 810 kmh
A388   Airbus A380-800 815 kmh Corrected as 815 kmh

B712   Boeing 717-200 579 kmh corrected as 574 kmh
B733   Boeing 737-300 611 kmhcorrected as 574 kmh
B734   Boeing 737-400 572 kmhcorrected as 574 kmh
B735   Boeing 737-500  533 kmh    corrected as 574 kmh
B737   Boeing 737-700 584 kmh corrected as 615 kmh
B738   Boeing 737-800 736kmh corrected as 677 kmh
B739   Boeing 737-900 680 kmh corrected as 677 kmh
B744 Boeing 747-400    807kmh Corrected as 807 kmh
B748   Boeing 747-8 765 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh
B752   Boeing 757-200 688 kmh corrected as 707 kmh
B763   Boeing 767-300 726 kmh  corrected as 707 kmh
B764   Boeing 767-400 780 kmh  corrected as 757 kmh
B772   Boeing 777-200 733 kmh  corrected as 757 kmh
B773   Boeing 777-300 794 kmh  Corrected as 789 kmh
B77L   Boeing 777-200LR/F 835 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh
B77W    Boeing 777-300ER 783 kmh  Corrected as 789 kmh
B788/B789   Boeing 787-9 833 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh

There is three types of speed groups:

+10% and -10% speeds has the highest mistake range.
+5% and -5% speeds are reliable ones.
+-2,5% group is the most reliable ones.

Calculation of 1st stage is in here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73663.0

Remind me if you see a broken link.

You can find the link of airplanes by click to this link:
 
link: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/

meaning of the Color on speeds:
Green: data from consistent and reliable flights. highest reliability.
blue: data obtained from sufficient number of flights. reliable.
red: No reliable data was provided. will be corrected by comparison with the flights of different aircraft between the same airports. (after others have been completed)

....

STAGE 1 IS COMPLETED
...

STAGE 2: Calculating distances between the Priority regions:

1- Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta (1)
2- Dubai (3)
3- Los Angeles (4)
4- Chicago (6)
5- London (7)
6- Paris (10)
7- Dallas Fort Worth (11)
8- Amsterdam (12)
9- Frankfurt (13)
10- Istanbul (14)
11- New York (16)
12- Denver (18)

Calculations of stage 2 in here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73696

FINAL MAP (Map will be created by finding the center of intersections)

Our map will be here as follow:



When you want to, you may join this working. It is an open source working.

If you wish to participate in helping to make this map then you are more than welcome to do so.

We'll need to the masters of photoshop and cgi  soon.

So it is a good idea someone's develop themselves in this matter.

During we continue the working, someones may create earlier versions of map and we may publish it as an estimation.

For example:

It is show up that compared to the all other maps including round and flat ones, China size should x2 bigger than old one. Russian size should be %50 less than old. Indonesia is about %30-50 longer, Australia about 1500 kms to the east, related with China's and Indonesia's growing. Europe is about same size. We have not enough data for America, but perhaps the size about same but shape may be a bit different.

an earler map can be made taking them into account.

PS: I'm weak on that last stage of this working and need a help.

Contributors : brotherhood of the dome, Sam Hill,...

I am by no means an expert or even an authority on flight times , but from the little that I do know .:
There are so many variables involved that using flight times makes absolutely no sense.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 05:19:59 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #131 on: January 11, 2018, 11:03:38 PM »
I made a decision about the style of working. I'll no more share all of links which all datas are coming from. Till I'm working on a topic related with this issue (link) almost no one is helping me during the working. This is second or third repeating of same event. But I'm spending a time for creating all the links shows data where come from. This is for both help to helpers, and evidence of the correctness of the work and in the direction of leading to those who want to work in this regard. But despide of all of my efforts, no one is making a serious helping (Except Sam). Normally, someones should be helped here. so I was could to take back the time I lost while creating links, with these helpings. but things did not develop like that. it is nothing but a waste of time from my point of view to create evidence for you here. I'll no more do that, because I have to speed up.

I believe that everyone will understand this situation.


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #132 on: January 12, 2018, 12:41:01 AM »
Now the time for: Johny the great! :)

If you get me the data in a format I can parse, I'd be happy to help with coding up a solution that puts them all on a flat plane that fits together in the most reasonable way.

I gave you this data:

Distance-speed values for all types of aircrafts will be corrected by this corrected values:

300 398 515 563 780   1102   1252   1702   1808   2239   2717   3213   6526   6686   9086
562 575 657 667 720    750   760    801   805   828   844   869   899  900   895

and this data:

We should calculate the speed formulas depend on the distance of routes. This is our initial values:

Aircraft / / / Average speed on distances
Aircraft/ Avg speed/300kms*/ 398kms*/515kms*/563kms*/ 780kms*/1102kms*/1252kms*/1702km*/1808km* /2239kms*/ 2717kms /3213km*/6526km*/6686km*/9086km*
A306    722kmh   /NA            / NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /     NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A318    627 kmh  /NA            / 582kmh /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       / 769kmh /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A319    627 kmh  /545kmh     /621kmh / 687kmh / 703kmh / 743kmh / 816kmh /   NA       /   NA       / 810kmh  / 829kmh /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A320    627 kmh  /580kmh    /555kmh  / 671kmh /    NA     / 743kmh / 743kmh /   NA       /   NA       / 816kmh  / 809kmh /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A321    627 kmh  /NA           /582kmh  / 644kmh / 610kmh /   NA       / 769kmh / 799kmh / 804kmh /    NA      /  840kmh/     NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A330    687 kmh   /NA           / NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /861kmh. /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A332   687 kmh    /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /804kmh  /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      / 826kmh /   NA      / 881kmh
A333   687 kmh    /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       / 715kmh /810kmh  /    NA      / 834kmh / 844kmh. /857kmh./   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A343    759 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      / 878kmh
A346    759 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A359    810 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A388    815 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /905kmh

B712    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
B733    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
B734    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
B735    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B737    615 kmh  / NA/      597kmh      /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B738    677 kmh  /562kmh / 582kmh    /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       / 766kmh /785kmh  /    NA      /   NA      / /   NA      / 861kmh./   NA        /   NA      /  NA      /
B739    677 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA     /   NA      / /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B744    807 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       / 920kmh/  NA      /
B748    811 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B752    707 kmh   /NA      /508kmh      /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA        /   NA      /  NA      /
B763    707 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B764    757 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B772    757 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B773    789 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B77L    811 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B77W    789 kmh  /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      / 881kmh  /   NA      /  NA      /
B788/B789 811 kmh /NA          /NA       /  NA       /   NA      /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      / 897kmh. /   NA       / 881kmh /916kmh
Average of all types /562kmh / 575kmh / 667kmh/ 657kmh/  743kmh /  774kmh /760kmh  / 801kmh  / 813kmh / 828kmh /  844kmh/ 869kmh  / 853kmh  /900kmh /  895kmh

*corrected



Lets do it all together, instead of talk in vain.

I know you can do that.

Would you want to give me aircraft speeds depend on distance for all types one by one? I mean, fill in the blanks ( type the real values to NA values) in the chart.


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

*

wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #133 on: January 12, 2018, 04:56:06 AM »
We'll continue to examine distances between cities depends on this knowledge.

Stage 2 will be re started.

All values corrected and with themselves we made a chart.



Final chart:



You may examine this chart. The fastest aircraft pre accepted as faster than slowest one %7 in same route. According to these preacceptance, all faults were minimized and all logical integrations are completed.

We'll use this chart for next operations.


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

*

Danang

  • 4280
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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #134 on: January 12, 2018, 06:30:51 AM »
I suspect that airplane's speed can be set at any rate possible in line with how firm the airplane's material n design can bear.
Coz the medium is Air. By steady gas, acceleration will occur easily.

They might not reveal to the public about the true optimum speed. It's also about 'speedometer game' set by manufacturer.
Who knows the actual speed actually can reach 2000 kms/h or even more.

IMHO sun's speed is also among highly reliable variables for map making purpose, besides flight.

Just an input. I don't discourage you. Keep up with your work. Your flight threads are among my favorites to check out.
• (Curved Grided) South Pole Centered FE Map AKA Phew FE Map
• Downwards Universal Deceleration.

Phew's Silicon Valley: https://gwebanget.home.blog/

*

wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #135 on: January 14, 2018, 10:25:03 PM »
Hello guys,

We'll prove now how a flight  manipulates flight time and this event causes hiding real distances.

Flight sites use raw data and cooked data together. Direct distances are use raw and flight times on first page raw data, and in the history as cooked data. But there is a hypocrisy on some routes.

I want to give you two spesific perfect example:

This is a raw data and cooked data in a route between London and Istanbul.



As we clearly see that, there is about 30 mins time correctance used in this flight for all datas in the chart. This correctance contains delayed times, lift off and landing times.

Another one in same route:



In this route, average 26 mins time correctance used for every flights. This is about 15% of flight time.

This is the corrected" best flight time: 2:55. And this data is corrected from 3:26. So it is corrected 31 mins.

This data come from here and here:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1972/history/20180115/1745Z/EGLL/LTBA
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1972/history

Now, lets look to one of the manipulated flight:

Flights between Los Angeles-Beijing



I marked the best flight time and it is just 11 mins corrected.

This data comes from here and here:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA887/history/20180116/0400Z/ZBAA/KLAX
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA887/history

There is just 11 mins time correctance. This is about 2% of all flight time.

As we clearly see that, there is a correctance difference between routes Istanbul-London and Los Angeles-Beijing. 15% time correctance is used almost all of the flight paths in Europe. But this correctance doesn't used in suspicious routes likes Beijing-Los Angeles route.

This is a hoax. This hoax causes people think about this route longer than its real size. But this is not real.

it could also be an error. it could be chance. but I do not believe in chance, so accept it as a trick.

We need to fix this trick soon.

Either we will correct these errors, or we will use just raw datas. God damn NASA/ISIS/FETÖ/PKK supporters everywhere.


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2018, 05:48:21 AM »
Determining the center:

London (LHR)
Rejkjavik (KEF)
Los Angeles (KLAX)
New York (KJFK)
Tel Aviv (TLV)
Moscow (SVO)
Beijing (PEK)


London   Rejkjavik (1896) 2.103kms.
A320 speed: 822kmh. best: 2:43 distance: 2.233kms.
B752 speed: 835kmh. best: 2:32 distance: 2.115kms.
B763 speed: 835kmh. best: 2:21 distance: 1.962kms.
Distance: 2.103kms.

London   Los Angeles 8769 8.767kms

A388 best: 9:42 speed:913 distance:8856kms.
B789 best: 9:32 speed:909 distance:8666kms.
B77W best: 9:51 speed:893 distance:8796kms.
B774 best: 9:44  speed:899 distance:8750kms.
Distance: 8.767kms.

London   New York 5545 5.402kms.

B744 best: 6:14 speed: 892 distance: 5560
B772 best: 6:04 speed: 878 distance: 5324
A346 best: 6:02 speed: 883 distance: 5327
B763 best: 6:13 speed: 868 distance: 5396
distance: 5.402kms.

London   Tel Aviv 3.593 3.844kms
B772 best: 4:24 speed: 876 distance: 3.854
B77w best: 4:28 speed: 885distance: 3.953
B789 best: 4:08 speed: 901 distance: 3.724
Distance: 3.844kms.

London   Moscow 2511 2628
A320-321 best:3:13 speed:837 distance: 2.628

London   Beijing 8.162 8.486
A330 9:35 868 8.318
B773 9:25 907 8.540
B789 9:29 907 8.601
distance: 8.486 kms

Rejkjavik   Los Angeles 6.934 6913
A330 7:59 866 6913

Rejkjavik   New York 4.169 3.709kms
B752/763 4:17 866 3.709

Rejkjavik   Tel Aviv 5282 5.473kms
A321 6:25 853 5.473

Los Angeles   New York 3.978  4.246kms.
A320/321 5:05 853 4336
A333 5:04 863 4372
B763 4:39 867 4.031
distance: 4246

Los Angeles   Tel Aviv 12.181 11.888kms.
B772 13:26 885 11.888

Los Angeles   Moscow 9.769 9979
A332 11:29 869 9979

Los Angeles   Beijing 10.049 10.218
B773 11:27 893 10.224
B788/789 11:04 909 10.059
B77W 11:37 893 10.373
distance: 10.218

New York   Tel Aviv 9.127 8.514

B744 9:24 899 8.450
A333 9:55 869 8.616
B77W 9:43 893 8.677
B772 9:17 884 8.206
B789 9:29 909 8.620
distance: 8.514

New York   Moscow 7489 7.323kms.
A333 8:28 867 7340
B77W 8:12 891 7306
7323

New York   Beijing 10.981 11.495
B773 12:56  893 11.549
B772 13:00 884  11.492
B77W 12:59 893 11.594
B748 12:29 909  11.347

Tel Aviv   Moscow 2674  3.278
A320/321 3:46 852 3.209
A333 3:47 862 3.261
B77W 3:48 885 3.363
distance: 3.278

Tel Aviv   Beijing 7.149 7.665
A333 8:42 866  7534
B763 8:57 871  7795
distance: 7.665

Moscow   Beijing 5.802 6.263

A333 7:16 862 6263

Final shape:



Centered 7 cities are perfectly placed. I deliberately showed the intersection points in Beijing and Moscow, for you understand how its perfectly overlaps.

Some distances are shown in the map less than calculated. Because some routes may be less than distances flown by aircrafts, by the mistake of caused by not pass by the center of the map, mispredict the route and the globe map is already wrong.

We'll continue from this point. These shape may be a bit different but about this shape.

Take care where is Tel Aviv. This was our surprise movement that gang perhaps wasn't consider we use it. Ahaha. Tel Aviv perfectly works, instead of Doha.  Ahahah. ;D

This is distances shown in the drawing between cities:



Route / Calculated distances / Distances on the map / difference %
LA-Beijing: 10.218 / 10.218 / 0%
Beijing-Tel Aviv: 7.665 / 7.648 / 2%
Tel Aviv-London: 3.844/3.595 /7% (in less side, possible)
London-Rejkavik: 2103/2102 / 0%
London-Moscow: 2828/2628 / 8% (in less side, possible)
Moscow-Tel Aviv: 3278/3279 / 0%
LA-Rejkavik: 6.913 / 6.688 / 3% (in less side, possible)
LA-NY : 4246/ 4246 / 0%
NY-London: 5402/5402 / 0%
beijing-Moscow: 6263/5863 / 7% (in less side, possible)

Average mistake: %2,7 , fair.

We'll continue from this point.

Used data:

London   Rejkjavik   KEF   2103
London   Los Angeles   KLAX   8767
London   New York   KJFK   5402
London   Tel Aviv   TLV   3844
London   Moscow   SVO   2628
London   Beijing   PEK   8486
Rejkjavik   Los Angeles   KLAX   6913
Rejkjavik   New York   KJFK   3709
Rejkjavik   Tel Aviv   TLV   5473
Los Angeles   New York   KJFK   4246
Los Angeles   Tel Aviv   TLV   11888
Los Angeles   Moscow   SVO   9979
Los Angeles   Beijing   PEK   10218
New York   Tel Aviv   TLV   8514
New York   Moscow   SVO   7323
New York   Beijing   PEK   11495
Tel Aviv   Moscow   SVO   3278
Tel Aviv   Beijing   PEK   7665
Moscow   Beijing   PEK   6263


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

*

wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2018, 10:21:53 AM »
Addional datas:

New York-Tel Aviv: 8847/8514  4%
Beijing London: 8488/8486 0%
New York-Rejkavik: 3.709/ 3.709 0%
Moscow-Tel Aviv: 3278/3279 0%

Average mistake: 1%

final image:



All datas are consistent.

Adding cities:

Sao Paolo,
Santiago,
Atlanta,
Johannesburg, + (Madrid, Doha or Istanbul if requered)
Sydney,
Tokyo

I have the right to to 5% shrink the all datas in the centered cities, if requered. Because in fact first 5 latitudes aren't exist and perhaps it causes this distances longer. Or perhaps not. We'll see.

On Progress...


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2018, 12:25:07 PM »
Sydney-Beijing: 8.975 9319kms
A332/333 10:57 869 9515
B77W 10:13 893 9123

Sydney-Los Angeles   12.075 11963
B77W 12:41 896 11364
B744 13:25 902 12102
B789 13:02 912 11886
B77L 13:26 912 12251
A388 13:20  916 12213
distance: 11963

Johannesburg-Sydney 11.036 9.776
B744 10:51 901 9.776

Johannesburg-Tel Aviv 6512 7487
B763 8:37 869 7487

Johannesburg-London 9.086 9378
A388 10:37 913 9693
A332 10:32 869 9153
B789 10:13 909 9287
distance: 9.378kms.

Johannesburg-New York 12.845 12.934
A346 14:30 892 12.934

Johannesburg-Beijing 11.721 12.037
B773 13:27 895 12.037

Sao Paolo - New York 7673 8.207
A332 9:06 867  7890
B77W 9:15 891 8242
A333 9:23 867 8135
A359 9:30 901 8560

Sao Paolo-Los Angeles 9930 10.495
B789 11:32 910 10.495

Sao Paolo-Johannesburg 7447  Either 7390 or 8884 (both can't be together)
A333 8:32 866 7390
B763 10:12 871 8884
inconsistent result

Sao Paolo-London 9471 9713
B772 11:14 884 9930
B773 10:38 893 9496

Atlanta-Sao Paolo 7519 7991
A333 9:13 867 7991

Atlanta-New York 1224 1447
A320 1:46 784 1385
B712 1:58 775 1524
B739 1:45 788 1379
B752 1:53 798 1503

Atlanta-Los Angeles 3130 3294
B738 3:54 856 3338
B752 3:50 866 3320
B764 3:44 876 3270
A321 3:51 852 3280
B739 3:47 856 3239
B77L 3:41 901 3319

Atlanta-London 6769 6432
B763 7:22 871 6416
B764 7:30 881 6608
B77W 7:11 890 6393
B772 7:05 891 6311

Atlanta-Santiago (Scel) 7597  7.950
B763 9:07 872 7950

Santiago-Sydney 11353 10.902
B744 12:06 901  10902

Santiago-Sao Paolo 2.617 3.100
A320 3:23 843 2852
B789 3:42 891 3297
B738 3:33 848 3010
B763 3:47 857 3242

Santiago-New York 8247 8484
B788/789 9:20  909

Santiago-Los Angeles 8997 9.423
B788/789 10:22 909

Santiago-London 11668 12.223
B789 13:25 911

Tokyo-Atlanta (NRT) ... (tokyo remained)

will be continued from here...


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2018, 01:52:12 PM »
All you have to do now is to connect the dots and draw your map.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #140 on: January 15, 2018, 03:19:18 PM »
A map based entirely on flight times would be interesting .... but not accurate geographically.  This simple fact is that flying cannot always be done at the same or consistent speeds.  There are places on earth, such as mountains, and seasons and weather conditions that cause a plane to slow down, maneuver in turbulence, etc., so some routes would take longer to fly than the mileage alone might suggest.

*

Macarios

  • 2078
Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #141 on: January 15, 2018, 08:18:09 PM »
A map based entirely on flight times would be interesting .... but not accurate geographically.  This simple fact is that flying cannot always be done at the same or consistent speeds.  There are places on earth, such as mountains, and seasons and weather conditions that cause a plane to slow down, maneuver in turbulence, etc., so some routes would take longer to fly than the mileage alone might suggest.

It is all below. Montains are all below flight routes, weather conditions can affect take-of and landing but flight itself only winds.
The greatest factor is that some countries (for example China) don't allow direct trajectories, only certain corridors, and planes have to go around, extending the mileage.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #142 on: January 15, 2018, 09:58:09 PM »
All you have to do now is to connect the dots and draw your map.

Yes. Insert coin.   :)


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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #143 on: January 15, 2018, 10:35:28 PM »
Tokyo-Beijing 2.095 2268
A320 2:37 825 2158
B788 2:47 872 2427
B77W 2:42 857 2313
A333 2:37 835 2185
A321 2:44 825 2255

Tokyo-Sydney 7827 8223
B744 9:02 898 8112
B789 9:12 907 8334

Tokyo-Los Angeles 8823 8264
A333 9:26 869 8198
B789 9:19 909 8468
B77W 9:06 893 8126

Tokyo-New York 10.888 10.862
B77W 12:09 894

Tokyo-London  9603 10.008
B77W 11:11 893 9987
B788 11:02 909 10029

We have a right to shrink the center soncidering 15% time correctance. This have several reason. One of the most important thing is aircrafts don't want to pass from Pole point and such aircrafts passing the pole are really turning around by drawing circle. This makes flying time about %15 more. We may consider it later.


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wise

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Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2018, 03:53:57 AM »
We arrived some mistakes on flying routes caused by some frauds. For example, actually "Sao Paolo to Johannesburg" route doesn't exist. But aircraft companies or flying sites are claiming they fly themselves. But this is meaningfull. On a bir search proves that nobody went to Johannesburg from Sao Paolo. Because as a Spanish-Porteguese country Brasil people not at all interest to a British city Johannesburg. There is also nothing better than Brasil. So this route isin't exist, this is meaningless, this is not economic. So that, because of frauds such cities like Johannesburg and Sao Paolo, continue to the center seems a better idea. We'll turn the liars later.

Selected central cities: Atlanta and Tokyo as (calculated earlier) , and as a new cities Lisbon, Boston, and Ponta Delgada.

Boston

Boston - NY: 300kms 503
A319/A321
0:53 569 503

Boston_LA: 4.198 4387
A320: 5:03  855
B738 5:12 857

Boston-Atlanta: 1.522 1.699
B737 2:20 790 1843
A319/320/321 (x3) 1:58 790 1554

Boston-London : 5245  4.975
B772 5:50 878
B763 5:59 868
B744 5:33 892
A333 5:22 863

Lisbon

Lisbon-London 1567 1.646
A319/320 2:05 790

Lisbon-NY 5410 4847
A332 5:37 863

Lisbon-Moscow 3.897 4.080
B738 4:46 856

Lisbon-Beijing 9667 9675
A332 11:08 869

Ponta Delgada

Ponta Delgada - London 2.559 2.919
B738 3:28 842

Ponta Delgada - Lisbon 1.450 1.356
A319/320 1:48 788
B738 1:38 792

Ponta Delgada- Boston 3.848kms. 3.834
A320/310 4:30 852

I think You wonder what is Ponta Delgada, who and why goes these strange place.  ;D



A different alternative for weekend. But people are generally fat.



Anyway. this is the only way to be a Portuguese. You should be fat and short. Otherways nobody understand you are a Portuguese or not.

Anyway.



Used datas:

Lisbon   london   1646
Lisbon   NY   4847
Lisbon   Moscow   4080
Lisbon   Beijing   9675
Ponta Delgada   London   2919
Ponta Delgada   Lisbon   1356
Ponta Delgada   Boston   3834

Tokyo   Beijing   2268
Tokyo   Sydney   8223
Tokyo   LA   8264
Tokyo   NY   10862
Tokyo   London   10008
      
Sydney   beijing   9319
Sydney   LA   11963
Johannesburg   Sydney   9776
Johannesburg   Tel Aviv   7487
Johannesburg   London   9378
Johannesburg   NY   12934
Johannesburg   beijing   12037
Sao Paolo   NY   8207
Sao Paolo   LA   10495
Sao Paolo   Johannesburg   THIS PATH IS A FRAUD
Sao Paolo   London   9713
Atlanta   Sao Paolo   7991
Atlanta   NY   1447
Atlanta   LA   3294
Atlanta   London   6432
Atlanta   Santiago   7950
Santiago   Sydney   10902
Santiago   Sao Paolo   3100
Santiago   NY   8484
Santiago   LA   9423
Santiago   London   12223

Last added:



We learned something important as a result of this study; Sao Paolo-Johannesburg flights being a hoax. Anyway. God damn who cheating the world.

do not you see how angry they are? Listen music and relax, we will bury them to the ground at the end.



Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

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rvlvr

  • 2034
Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2018, 05:06:31 AM »
I fly to Recife via Sao Paulo and/or Rio de Janeiro at least once a year (although this year this might not happen). There are rarely straight flights from Helsinki, they are mostly from Frankfurt, but the next time I do so, I will surely have a timer with me!

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wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2018, 05:14:26 AM »
I fly to Recife via Sao Paulo and/or Rio de Janeiro at least once a year (although this year this might not happen). There are rarely straight flights from Helsinki, they are mostly from Frankfurt, but the next time I do so, I will surely have a timer with me!

I'm sure you'll do that and see the Johannesburg below from 40.000 feets.  :)


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.

*

rvlvr

  • 2034
Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2018, 05:22:44 AM »
I seem to be able to book a flight from Johannesburg to Sao Paulo. South African Airways is the flag carrier. They claim it takes 10h 35' going, and 8h 50' coming back.

I do not quite get why the route is fraudulent?

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rvlvr

  • 2034
Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
« Reply #148 on: January 16, 2018, 05:38:43 AM »
There is also nothing better than Brasil.
Man, I have to disagree here!

At least they should start brewing better beer.

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
« Reply #149 on: January 16, 2018, 05:44:50 AM »
I seem to be able to book a flight from Johannesburg to Sao Paulo. South African Airways is the flag carrier. They claim it takes 10h 35' going, and 8h 50' coming back.

I do not quite get why the route is fraudulent?

I found same thing but it still seems a hoax. Except these two ones the others are indirect and connecting flights and between about 20-35 hours. these flights are not convincing. this is my decision. if you want to continue the debate on this issue, we may keep it there. https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73885.0


Where there is insolence, there is no room for wisdom.