Newbie question!

Hi All,
New here, so please be gentle!
I was discussing the true shape of Earth with a friend. and he pointed out that there are no mathematical equations that prove the Earth is flat, but a huge amount which point to the Earth being a sphere.
I wasn't sure how to answer that, so thought I'd ask here, in short;
What mathematical proof do we have that the Earth is flat? Are there any equations for a flat Earth model to do any predictions on things like sunrise/sunset, eclipses, etc like they have in the spherical model?

Many thanks,
geoff.

Of all the n00b intros, this approach is my favorite.
Not angry. Not claiming to be the preeminent know-it-all in some misspelled field of study. Couched as a regular Joe.

"I think you are all stupid as fuck, but here is the standard litany of clever 'gotcha' questions that will leave you stunned and amazed at my intellect."

What mathematical proof do we have that the Earth is flat? Are there any equations for a flat Earth model to do any predictions on things like sunrise/sunset, eclipses, etc like they have in the spherical model?

To be fair, those equations were derived with reference to the real world. It wasn't as though they locked themselves in a windowless room and wrote down a bunch of numbers, they figured out basic equations then plugged in numbers that they could observe in order to find the values of relevant constants.
Eclipses, day lengths over the course of the year etc are all predictable with just accounts of when they've occurred before, even if you don't have a clue about the mechanism. To find a formula that works with that in mind isn't particularly hard if you know the field, regardless of the shape of the world, so long as you have a potentially workable mechanism. It all really comes down to whether the idea could work in theory.

Quote from: disk_us on December 07, 2017, 01:33:07 AM

What mathematical proof do we have that the Earth is flat? Are there any equations for a flat Earth model to do any predictions on things like sunrise/sunset, eclipses, etc like they have in the spherical model?

To be fair, those equations were derived with reference to the real world. It wasn't as though they locked themselves in a windowless room and wrote down a bunch of numbers, they figured out basic equations then plugged in numbers that they could observe in order to find the values of relevant constants.
Eclipses, day lengths over the course of the year etc are all predictable with just accounts of when they've occurred before, even if you don't have a clue about the mechanism. To find a formula that works with that in mind isn't particularly hard if you know the field, regardless of the shape of the world, so long as you have a potentially workable mechanism. It all really comes down to whether the idea could work in theory.

This just isn't accurate.  There are observations that are made daily that could not happen "regardless of the shape of the world".  Heliocentricity vs. Geocentricity requires the mechanism to differentiate, as observations from Earth will accurately reflect either model, but this isn't the case with the shape of the Earth.

There is a reason the spherical nature of the Earth has been known for thousands of years but it's only in the last few hundred that the Sun centered solar system has been confirmed.  Observation alone is enough to establish a sphere, but not enough to determine accurate celestial movement. 

Hi All,
New here, so please be gentle!
I was discussing the true shape of Earth with a friend. and he pointed out that there are no mathematical equations that prove the Earth is flat, but a huge amount which point to the Earth being a sphere.
I wasn't sure how to answer that, so thought I'd ask here, in short;
What mathematical proof do we have that the Earth is flat? Are there any equations for a flat Earth model to do any predictions on things like sunrise/sunset, eclipses, etc like they have in the spherical model?

Many thanks,
geoff.

Statistical analysis of shoe shapes provide clear evidence that the earth is flat.
Additionally, measurements can easily be made to demonstrate this. See my signature for more information.

This just isn't accurate.  There are observations that are made daily that could not happen "regardless of the shape of the world".  Heliocentricity vs. Geocentricity requires the mechanism to differentiate, as observations from Earth will accurately reflect either model, but this isn't the case with the shape of the Earth.

There is a reason the spherical nature of the Earth has been known for thousands of years but it's only in the last few hundred that the Sun centered solar system has been confirmed.  Observation alone is enough to establish a sphere, but not enough to determine accurate celestial movement.

Which isn't really relevant to the issues the OP raised. He didn't ask after mechanisms, he asked after predictive equations.

The equations have been posted and studied so many times. It's like there needs to be a wiki or FAQ to read...

Quote from: ItsRoundIPromise on December 07, 2017, 08:18:33 AM

This just isn't accurate.  There are observations that are made daily that could not happen "regardless of the shape of the world".  Heliocentricity vs. Geocentricity requires the mechanism to differentiate, as observations from Earth will accurately reflect either model, but this isn't the case with the shape of the Earth.

There is a reason the spherical nature of the Earth has been known for thousands of years but it's only in the last few hundred that the Sun centered solar system has been confirmed.  Observation alone is enough to establish a sphere, but not enough to determine accurate celestial movement.

Which isn't really relevant to the issues the OP raised. He didn't ask after mechanisms, he asked after predictive equations.

What he did or didn't ask for won't make incorrect things correct.  What you posted was inaccurate.  I corrected you.

Since there is no real agreement about the exact size and shape of the Earth. It’s hard to provide mathematical proofs for a flat earth. Many FE believers state the whole of the earth has yet to be seen or explored. So it becomes impossible to provide mathematical truths to a problem that has not set values. It is very easy to come up with the round earth calculations. They can be verified by current mapping software and real world measurements. You can look on google maps and see what someone in Australia has planted in their garden. And measure the square footage of said garden. But somehow not be able to see all of the Earth? Where exactly does the ice wall begin?  When do the photos transition from fact to fiction? These types of questions must have an answer or you can never make accurate calculations in a FE scenario.

Many thanks for all the responses.
It appears that it's not possible at this stage to provide any mathematical evidence for a flat earth, which makes the argument very difficult given the wealth of scientifically tested methods proving a spherical shaped earth.

Read the FAAAAAAAQ

Tried the FAQ, couldn't see any mathematical proof.
In essence, it seems the answer comes down to the usual FE response:
"Do your own research, the Earth is <insert shape here>"

Do your own research, the Earth is ...

Flat

What he did or didn't ask for won't make incorrect things correct.  What you posted was inaccurate.  I corrected you.

It's pretty clear they're not going to believe in FET, you don't have to butt in with a 'but there are other problems with FET!'

Many thanks for all the responses.
It appears that it's not possible at this stage to provide any mathematical evidence for a flat earth, which makes the argument very difficult given the wealth of scientifically tested methods proving a spherical shaped earth.

Would you accept any other answer?

Hi All,
New here, so please be gentle!
I was discussing the true shape of Earth with a friend. and he pointed out that there are no mathematical equations that prove the Earth is flat, but a huge amount which point to the Earth being a sphere.
I wasn't sure how to answer that, so thought I'd ask here, in short;
What mathematical proof do we have that the Earth is flat? Are there any equations for a flat Earth model to do any predictions on things like sunrise/sunset, eclipses, etc like they have in the spherical model?

Many thanks,
geoff.

Flat Earthers have an inbred allergy to equations and numbers, so don't expect much sense when it comes to things like:
"equations for a flat Earth model to do any predictions on things like sunrise/sunset, eclipses, etc like they have in the spherical model".