2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)

  • 40 Replies
  • 6272 Views
*

th3rm0m3t3r0

  • At least 3 words, please.
  • 4696
  • It's SCIENCE!
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2018, 12:20:03 AM »
Hi everyone, a you saw the title and I think you know what the post is about so let's start.

1- Density:
We actually know the weight of earth, and it is about 6 x 10^24 kilograms and a flat disk with a 50km deep wouldn't have the weight that lots of scientist have precisely calculated, like cavendish who was the first human that calculated the density of earth. The weight of a flat earth would be a lot less than the one we have calculated and even if the flat earth weights the same that we have calculated, the density of the soil would be much higher.

2- Center of mass:
The center of mass of a flat earth would be somewhere down the North Pole and everything would be attracted to it and if you lived in Australia, heading to the south would be like climbing a mountain with a slope of 70° and if you trowed a ball to the north it would never come back, it would be so extreme that the entire water in earth would be concentrated in a gigantic ocean in the North Pole.

I'm going to tell you something, this two things have been proven and if you think
the one of the density is a conspiracy, well it's not, the weight of earth can be calculated by you by using the gravity of the planet and some other things.

You can leave your arguments in the replies.

There is no gravity. Both of these conjectures rely on the existence of a non-existent force, coupled with the preconception of a globe Earth.


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2018, 01:03:52 AM »
There is no gravity. Both of these conjectures rely on the existence of a non-existent force, coupled with the preconception of a globe Earth.
It might be more accurate to say, "th3rm0m3t3r0 mistakenly claims that 'There is no gravity'." even though the universal gravitational constant G has measured numerous times.

I've given you plenty of evidence of simple demonstrations that almost anyone can do,
yet with no other evidence than your own prejudice you continue to state, "There is no gravity".

You still persist in the fantasy of UA, even though it is a purely hypothetical explanation that tries to replicate well-demonstrated and much-measured gravitation.

Yet it still does not explain so much of what we can observe that is explained by a combination of gravitation and the earth's rotation.
You still completely ignore:
  • The variation of g with latitude and altitude.
  • The diurnal variation of g.
  • The variation in apparent g with east-west movement, known as the Eötvös effect.
If a hypothesis cannot explain some relevant observations or measurements, fix it or throw it out!

And you flat earthers still cannot agree on "why things fall down" with John Davis categorically stating,
The earth is not accelerating upwards. If you wish to talk about this silly theory you should go to tfes.org. I believe they still have UA believers there. We might have one or two here, but I doubt it.

And all apparently based on nothing more than, "The earth looks flat, so it must be flat!"
To misquote an old adage, "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first find ourselves deceived."

*

EvolvedMantisShrimp

  • 927
  • Physical Comedian
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2018, 04:32:36 AM »
Hi everyone, a you saw the title and I think you know what the post is about so let's start.

1- Density:
We actually know the weight of earth, and it is about 6 x 10^24 kilograms and a flat disk with a 50km deep wouldn't have the weight that lots of scientist have precisely calculated, like cavendish who was the first human that calculated the density of earth. The weight of a flat earth would be a lot less than the one we have calculated and even if the flat earth weights the same that we have calculated, the density of the soil would be much higher.

2- Center of mass:
The center of mass of a flat earth would be somewhere down the North Pole and everything would be attracted to it and if you lived in Australia, heading to the south would be like climbing a mountain with a slope of 70° and if you trowed a ball to the north it would never come back, it would be so extreme that the entire water in earth would be concentrated in a gigantic ocean in the North Pole.

I'm going to tell you something, this two things have been proven and if you think
the one of the density is a conspiracy, well it's not, the weight of earth can be calculated by you by using the gravity of the planet and some other things.

You can leave your arguments in the replies.

There is no gravity. Both of these conjectures rely on the existence of a non-existent force, coupled with the preconception of a globe Earth.

My high school physics class has performed the Cavendish experiment. I have personally measured gravity. How much more zetetic can I get?
Nullius in Verba

*

JackBlack

  • 19000
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2018, 04:55:31 AM »
Let's assume for a moment that equation being applied to gravity simply because it's cosmetically similar isn't total bullshit.  There would still be a massive gap in the equation:  the mass of the second body. Gravity is the force of attraction between multiple bodies. The fact that your equation leaves that out reveals its uselessness.
No, it is treating gravity just like a field, like electrostatic fields.
You determine the field strength at a given location.
To then determine the force on an object you multiple the field strength by the particles "charge" which in this case is its mass.

*

JackBlack

  • 19000
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2018, 04:56:48 AM »
Sure, yes. You shouldn't rely on a process where human greed influences the outcome of comparative experiments. Such activity can not exist within FE.
And what makes you think such a dishonest process cannot exist within FE?

Science has provided some inventive achievements but could do much better if participants could engage in more complex thinking.  Scientific thinking and its output is limited to outcomes of linear thinking, only.     
No, scientific output is not just based upon linear thinking.
It has had several things which went completely away from the norm.

*

EvolvedMantisShrimp

  • 927
  • Physical Comedian
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2018, 05:01:40 AM »
Let's assume for a moment that equation being applied to gravity simply because it's cosmetically similar isn't total bullshit.  There would still be a massive gap in the equation:  the mass of the second body. Gravity is the force of attraction between multiple bodies. The fact that your equation leaves that out reveals its uselessness.
No, it is treating gravity just like a field, like electrostatic fields.
You determine the field strength at a given location.
To then determine the force on an object you multiple the field strength by the particles "charge" which in this case is its mass.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 05:06:28 AM by EvolvedMantisShrimp »
Nullius in Verba

*

Nightsky

  • 900
  • Know the implications of what you believe.
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2018, 08:51:42 AM »
Sure, yes. You shouldn't rely on a process where human greed influences the outcome of comparative experiments. Such activity can not exist within FE.

Science has provided some inventive achievements but could do much better if participants could engage in more complex thinking.  Scientific thinking and its output is limited to outcomes of linear thinking, only.     

Could you give us some examples of your non linear thinking.
You can call me Gwyneth
I said that
Oh for the love of- Logical formulation:
FET is wrong, unsupported by evidence, and most models are refuted on multiple fronts; those that aren't tend not to make enough predictions to be realistically falsifiable
Jane said these

*

gotham

  • Planar Moderator
  • 3464
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »
Sure, yes. You shouldn't rely on a process where human greed influences the outcome of comparative experiments. Such activity can not exist within FE.

Science has provided some inventive achievements but could do much better if participants could engage in more complex thinking.  Scientific thinking and its output is limited to outcomes of linear thinking, only.     

Could you give us some examples of your non linear thinking.

Of course. It is better to expand by addressing the issue in a broader scope. For example, by exploring how FE and RE approach problem solving in general.

FEers are not limited by what has been described as a "pack mentality".  That being the end result of how REers must approach the inherent specifics of a task.  They will not range outside of a stamped-out mindset they all, by necessity, must adhere to. 

FEers have the luxury of free thinking leading to an ability to expand into complex rationalization much more advanced than that of REers. 

This is the advantage we make reference to when facts, evidence, truth, etc are put to the test.           

*

JackBlack

  • 19000
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2018, 01:36:20 PM »
Let's assume for a moment that equation being applied to gravity simply because it's cosmetically similar isn't total bullshit.  There would still be a massive gap in the equation:  the mass of the second body. Gravity is the force of attraction between multiple bodies. The fact that your equation leaves that out reveals its uselessness.
No, it is treating gravity just like a field, like electrostatic fields.
You determine the field strength at a given location.
To then determine the force on an object you multiple the field strength by the particles "charge" which in this case is its mass.


As an example, again with electrostatic fields, there are 2 ways to determine the force on an object.
Assuming there are only 2, the simple way is using the formula:
F=kq1q2/r2.

But this isn't always practical, such as when considering the force on a particle between 2 parallel plates.
To do that you would need to add up all the interactions from every point on the plate.
Another way is to calculate the field (ignoring the particle), which varies depending upon the nature of objects.
For a spherically symmetric object, outside the object, the electric field is given by:
E=kq/r2
For a single plate it is given by (you can use Gauss' law to figure it out as per John's link):
E=s/2e, where s is the charge density of the plate, and e is the permittivity of free space (if you use a medium instead it changes, just like k would, k=1/(4*pi*e)).

Between 2 parallel, oppositely charged plates of |charge density| s, the field will be E=s/e.

Then to find the force on a particle it is simply:
F=Eq.

In the case of a particle in a symmetric field this becomes:
F=(kq1/r2)*q2=kq1q2/r2.

The exact same can be done with gravity.
However, because gravity has mass as its "charge", you end up with force=mass*field strength, and as F=mass*acceleration, you can have acceleration=field strength, e.g. a=g.

This is important when considering things like light. Light has no mass so if you try to determine the force due to gravity acting on it you end up with 0, yet light is still bent by gravity.

*

JackBlack

  • 19000
Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2018, 01:40:46 PM »
FEers are not limited by what has been described as a "pack mentality".  That being the end result of how REers must approach the inherent specifics of a task.  They will not range outside of a stamped-out mindset they all, by necessity, must adhere to.
And there you go lying about REers yet again.
If this was the case we would have stuck with FE, not went outside the "pack mentality" to produce a RE model which worked.
We would have stuck with geocentrism. We wouldn't have produced quantum mechanics. People wouldn't be working on string theory or the like.

What you are confusing as pack mentality is merely building upon the work of others. We don't simply discard all the work of people that have come before us like you FEers do.

FEers have the luxury of free thinking leading to an ability to expand into complex rationalization much more advanced than that of REers.
And what is really meant by this is the FEers have the "luxury" of completely discarding all prior work put into determining the shape of Earth, resulting in them completely ignoring loads of evidence which firmly establishes that Earth is round. Also, when considering various facts, they will make up completely different models, often with wild speculation or pure fantasy to try and pretend a FE matches reality.

This is not rationalisation. This is simply discarding all semblance of rational thought.

Re: 2 reasons why flat earth is impossible(according to physics)
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2018, 07:44:31 PM »
Also, when considering various facts, they will make up completely different models, often with wild speculation or pure fantasy to try and pretend a FE matches reality.

Rowbotham did not lmit himself to using models to explain away existing facts, he often made up his own “facts”.  A few examples suffice:

A) The landmasses of the earth float on the sea, and are restrained from wandering about by giant fingers of land anchoring them to the southern ice
B) The ocean, in turn, floats on a bed of steam above the Biblical lake of fire
C) Ocean water is not as salty out at sea as it is near the shore
D) The far south is in perpetual darkness
E) The South Georgia islands are under many fathoms of snow in the summer
F) Sunlight puts out fire
G) Moonlight has heat sucking powers