Help me understand

Hi everyone.

I'm quite new to the flat earth teory and, even if I have difficulties believing it, I want to know more about it.

I watched a lot of documentaries and videos about flat earth proofs etc, but there are some things I have the hardest time figuring out.

important: I am NOT here to judge or call anyone names, I am just a normal person who doesn't know what is true and what is not, so I just would like to understand this theory better so that I can create my own ideas about things.

1) Distance of the sun:

Flat earthers say that the sun is 3000 miles (around 4'800 km) high. What I don't understand is: how can it still be seen high in the sky when seen by the top of mount Everest (which is around 8'800 km high)?

I saw a video about a guy on the top of mount everest (or close to it anyway). He showed that the sun was up higher than him and it radiated a kind of reflection that flat earthers said was proof of the existance of the dome.

Now, even if the dome exists and the sun is reflecting against it, why is it so high up? The man should be higher than 4'800 km at this point in the video, and the sun is still above him. How is this possible?


2) Meteorites:

I saw a documentary which explained that meteorites are objects that float in the waters above the dome and that, sometimes, they come towards earth at such a speed that they break it and fall on earth. That would also be why in the desert scientists found some kind of glass pieces which are not really glass and that are believed by flat earthers to be part of the dome, since the material that consitutites them is stronger than any glass-type of material.

I'm ok with it but my problem is: if these "meteorites" fall through the dome, how come water doesn't come pouring in from the hole they create?


3) The stars:

I'm not going to even start with the "clockwise or counterclockwise in the south or north pole" thing here.

My question is: if the dome is completely full of stars from top to bottom (where it meets the earth), how come when we are in the countries which are closer to the limit of the earth we still see the stars going in a circular pattern and not just passing by? since we are closer to the end of the dome we should just see them go by horizontally, souldn't we?


4) the Moon:

Even after all the documentaries I watch, I still have not figured out what shape the moon is supposed to be. Is it a sphere? Is it a disc?

If it's a disc, how is it possible that some countries see a full moon and others in that same moment don't see a line (since a disc in that position for a country would result in just a line for a country that sees it from another angle)?

And if it's a sphere, how is it possible to have the lunar eclipse? I understood the theory for the solar eclipse, but what about the lunar one? what is the shadow that comes in front of the moon in that occasion?


5) Just, why would they lie to us about the earth's shape?

Usually people would lie about something this big for 4 reasons:

- Religion: (ok, it is possible that they are lying to us so that we stray from the real and only believe, which would be God exists and made the earth and firmament etc).

- Money: even though they would admit the earth is flat they would still get the money for research and everything. why would they use up all the money to fake such a big thing instead of telling the truth and using that money the waste on space things to explore beyond the great ice or whatever they would use it for?

- Power: whether the earth is flat or a sphere, power would still be in the hands of governments and rich people, this wouldn't change if they said the truth.

- Avoid panic:  just like the excuse they use in movies to avoid telling people that they found alien life: "to avoid general panic". But what panic would it cause? No panic at all... Normal people would live just the same knowing that the earth is flat and that the governments are the only ones who has access to the part beyond the ice (just like they are the only ones having access to space right now, according to the spherical earth theory).

So, since all of these reasons don't make sense (except maybe the religious reason, but I think it's a bit over-done as a scam just to put down religious beliefs), why would they put up with all these space things if it didn't exist?





I think these are all my questions. Since they are a lot (I understand) I would prefer if you limited your answers only to my precise questions, since I already got an answer to all other I had watching documentaries.

Moreover, I consider this to be a serious site about the flat earth theory and therefore I expect serious answers realted to my questions, which will enlighten me on what I can't seem to figure out.



Thank you to whoever will answer in a precise and polite manner.

Hi everyone.

I'm quite new to the flat earth teory and, even if I have difficulties believing it, I want to know more about it.

I watched a lot of documentaries and videos about flat earth proofs etc, but there are some things I have the hardest time figuring out.

important: I am NOT here to judge or call anyone names, I am just a normal person who doesn't know what is true and what is not, so I just would like to understand this theory better so that I can create my own ideas about things.

1) Distance of the sun:

Flat earthers say that the sun is 3000 miles (around 4'800 km) high. What I don't understand is: how can it still be seen high in the sky when seen by the top of mount Everest (which is around 8'800 km high)?
I saw a video about a guy on the top of mount everest (or close to it anyway). He showed that the sun was up higher than him and it radiated a kind of reflection that flat earthers said was proof of the existance of the dome.

Now, even if the dome exists and the sun is reflecting against it, why is it so high up? The man should be higher than 4'800 km at this point in the video, and the sun is still above him. How is this possible?

Everest is not 8800 km high.

It is 8800 METERS above sea level and I think your whole post is affected by this misunderstanding.

2) Meteorites:

I saw a documentary which explained that meteorites are objects that float in the waters above the dome and that, sometimes, they come towards earth at such a speed that they break it and fall on earth. That would also be why in the desert scientists found some kind of glass pieces which are not really glass and that are believed by flat earthers to be part of the dome, since the material that consitutites them is stronger than any glass-type of material.

I'm ok with it but my problem is: if these "meteorites" fall through the dome, how come water doesn't come pouring in from the hole they create?

If the dome exists, it could have self- sealing properties.

3) The stars:

I'm not going to even start with the "clockwise or counterclockwise in the south or north pole" thing here.

My question is: if the dome is completely full of stars from top to bottom (where it meets the earth), how come when we are in the countries which are closer to the limit of the earth we still see the stars going in a circular pattern and not just passing by? since we are closer to the end of the dome we should just see them go by horizontally, souldn't we?

Perhaps you could provide a drawing or visual representation of what you are attempting to communicate.

4) the Moon:

Even after all the documentaries I watch, I still have not figured out what shape the moon is supposed to be. Is it a sphere? Is it a disc?

If it's a disc, how is it possible that some countries see a full moon and others in that same moment don't see a line (since a disc in that position for a country would result in just a line for a country that sees it from another angle)?

And if it's a sphere, how is it possible to have the lunar eclipse? I understood the theory for the solar eclipse, but what about the lunar one? what is the shadow that comes in front of the moon in that occasion?

The Moon could be self-illuminating.

5) Just, why would they lie to us about the earth's shape?

Usually people would lie about something this big for 4 reasons:

- Religion: (ok, it is possible that they are lying to us so that we stray from the real and only believe, which would be God exists and made the earth and firmament etc).

- Money: even though they would admit the earth is flat they would still get the money for research and everything. why would they use up all the money to fake such a big thing instead of telling the truth and using that money the waste on space things to explore beyond the great ice or whatever they would use it for?

- Power: whether the earth is flat or a sphere, power would still be in the hands of governments and rich people, this wouldn't change if they said the truth.

- Avoid panic:  just like the excuse they use in movies to avoid telling people that they found alien life: "to avoid general panic". But what panic would it cause? No panic at all... Normal people would live just the same knowing that the earth is flat and that the governments are the only ones who has access to the part beyond the ice (just like they are the only ones having access to space right now, according to the spherical earth theory).

So, since all of these reasons don't make sense (except maybe the religious reason, but I think it's a bit over-done as a scam just to put down religious beliefs), why would they put up with all these space things if it didn't exist?

Is Santa Claus real?

Why do parents lie to their children about Santa Claus?

I think these are all my questions. Since they are a lot (I understand) I would prefer if you limited your answers only to my precise questions, since I already got an answer to all other I had watching documentaries.

Moreover, I consider this to be a serious site about the flat earth theory and therefore I expect serious answers realted to my questions, which will enlighten me on what I can't seem to figure out.

Thank you to whoever will answer in a precise and polite manner.

Have a nice day!

1)  ok, I failed on this one xD I must have misread, sorry.

2) it could be self-sealing, but at this point we are running on pure imagination.

3) I actually don't know how to explain this better.

4)  self-illuminating, still imagination, no science.

5)  i don't think that the fact that parents lie about santa claus could be a meaningful metaphor in this case. we are not talking about kids getting presents. we are talking about lots and LOTS of money spent for a supposed scam.

1)  ok, I failed on this one xD I must have misread, sorry.

Failed what?

Misreading something?

Happens all the time.

2) it could be self-sealing, but at this point we are running on pure imagination.

As is most of the heliocentric, globe earth theory, I would argue.

3) I actually don't know how to explain this better.

Okay.

4)  self-illuminating, still imagination, no science.

Actually, my statement here (as was my statement in regard to the self-sealing properties of the dome) is the very first step in the scientific method.

Please read up on this method before you label things I offer in response as lacking or void of
science.

5)  i don't think that the fact that parents lie about santa claus could be a meaningful metaphor in this case. we are not talking about kids getting presents. we are talking about lots and LOTS of money spent for a supposed scam.

LOL! Are you kidding me?

LOTS AND LOTS of money!!!

Spent on a supposed scam...

Sounds like CHRISTMAS to ME!!!

about the self-sealing and self-illuminating things, round-earth teories are always backed by physics theories. and yes, they may be just theories, but with mathematics and calculations, all their theories work, everything that they prove actually gives a mathematic outcome that is right according to their calculation models. Therefore, even if they are just theories, they work all together.

For the flat earth theory I find very little scientific proof that could actually work. All I find are "believe what you see" and "see: the earth is flat out of a plane" or "we can't feel the movement of the earth, therefore it doesn't move" or things like this.

Of course we could believe anything if we just want to believe it, but creating a working method (like physics and mathematics) that anyone smart enough to understand is able to use to demonstrate round-earth theories is not so simple.

And about santa claus... I hope you are kidding. Even if the concept of money put into christmas or the round-earth scam is similar, there is no way someone would lie about something like this just because it's fun to see the happy faces on people... (or whatever you think this "big christmas" of the round-earth could do to humanity). People don't care about other people, especially if they are rich or powerful. They don't care if normal people like us believe in round or flat earth. They would never go through all this effort just to make us believe something that doesn't bring to any outcome (not for them, not for us).

There would be no profit in this big scam...

This video, (Thanks Rab), breaks it down very nicely.

There would be no profit in this big scam...

This video, (Thanks Rab), breaks it down very nicely.

That's exactly what I thought. Nobody would profit from it and it would be litterally impossible to make so many people maintain the secret. Great video!

about the self-sealing and self-illuminating things, round-earth teories are always backed by physics theories. and yes, they may be just theories, but with mathematics and calculations, all their theories work, everything that they prove actually gives a mathematic outcome that is right according to their calculation models. Therefore, even if they are just theories, they work all together.

For the flat earth theory I find very little scientific proof that could actually work. All I find are "believe what you see" and "see: the earth is flat out of a plane" or "we can't feel the movement of the earth, therefore it doesn't move" or things like this.

Of course we could believe anything if we just want to believe it, but creating a working method (like physics and mathematics) that anyone smart enough to understand is able to use to demonstrate round-earth theories is not so simple.

And about santa claus... I hope you are kidding. Even if the concept of money put into christmas or the round-earth scam is similar, there is no way someone would lie about something like this just because it's fun to see the happy faces on people... (or whatever you think this "big christmas" of the round-earth could do to humanity). People don't care about other people, especially if they are rich or powerful. They don't care if normal people like us believe in round or flat earth. They would never go through all this effort just to make us believe something that doesn't bring to any outcome (not for them, not for us).

A lovely and flowering response, none of which has ever been posted before in the annals of these forums.

Of course the rich and powerful do not care about us.

That is why millions upon millions of dollars are spent to maintain power over...wait for it...

US!

Quote from: Here to laugh at you on December 04, 2017, 03:00:02 PM

There would be no profit in this big scam...

This video, (Thanks Rab), breaks it down very nicely.

That's exactly what I thought. Nobody would profit from it and it would be litterally impossible to make so many people maintain the secret. Great video!

Now that you have your air support and your comfort blanket, I will leave you to your continued faith and return you to your regularly scheduled channels.

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 02:57:50 PM

about the self-sealing and self-illuminating things, round-earth teories are always backed by physics theories. and yes, they may be just theories, but with mathematics and calculations, all their theories work, everything that they prove actually gives a mathematic outcome that is right according to their calculation models. Therefore, even if they are just theories, they work all together.

For the flat earth theory I find very little scientific proof that could actually work. All I find are "believe what you see" and "see: the earth is flat out of a plane" or "we can't feel the movement of the earth, therefore it doesn't move" or things like this.

Of course we could believe anything if we just want to believe it, but creating a working method (like physics and mathematics) that anyone smart enough to understand is able to use to demonstrate round-earth theories is not so simple.

And about santa claus... I hope you are kidding. Even if the concept of money put into christmas or the round-earth scam is similar, there is no way someone would lie about something like this just because it's fun to see the happy faces on people... (or whatever you think this "big christmas" of the round-earth could do to humanity). People don't care about other people, especially if they are rich or powerful. They don't care if normal people like us believe in round or flat earth. They would never go through all this effort just to make us believe something that doesn't bring to any outcome (not for them, not for us).

A lovely and flowering response, none of which has ever been posted before in the annals of these forums.

Of course the rich and powerful do not care about us.

That is why millions upon millions of dollars are spent to maintain power over...wait for it...

US!

Ok, they want to control us. How are they doing it by telling us that the earth is a sphere? How is is a different kind of control than if they told us the earth was flat? What would change in their control over us if they told us the earth is flat?

Quote from: totallackey on December 04, 2017, 03:13:58 PM

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 02:57:50 PM

about the self-sealing and self-illuminating things, round-earth teories are always backed by physics theories. and yes, they may be just theories, but with mathematics and calculations, all their theories work, everything that they prove actually gives a mathematic outcome that is right according to their calculation models. Therefore, even if they are just theories, they work all together.

For the flat earth theory I find very little scientific proof that could actually work. All I find are "believe what you see" and "see: the earth is flat out of a plane" or "we can't feel the movement of the earth, therefore it doesn't move" or things like this.

Of course we could believe anything if we just want to believe it, but creating a working method (like physics and mathematics) that anyone smart enough to understand is able to use to demonstrate round-earth theories is not so simple.

And about santa claus... I hope you are kidding. Even if the concept of money put into christmas or the round-earth scam is similar, there is no way someone would lie about something like this just because it's fun to see the happy faces on people... (or whatever you think this "big christmas" of the round-earth could do to humanity). People don't care about other people, especially if they are rich or powerful. They don't care if normal people like us believe in round or flat earth. They would never go through all this effort just to make us believe something that doesn't bring to any outcome (not for them, not for us).

A lovely and flowering response, none of which has ever been posted before in the annals of these forums.

Of course the rich and powerful do not care about us.

That is why millions upon millions of dollars are spent to maintain power over...wait for it...

US!

Ok, they want to control us. How are they doing it by telling us that the earth is a sphere? How is is a different kind of control than if they told us the earth was flat? What would change in their control over us if they told us the earth is flat?

If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 03:35:29 PM

Quote from: totallackey on December 04, 2017, 03:13:58 PM

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 02:57:50 PM

about the self-sealing and self-illuminating things, round-earth teories are always backed by physics theories. and yes, they may be just theories, but with mathematics and calculations, all their theories work, everything that they prove actually gives a mathematic outcome that is right according to their calculation models. Therefore, even if they are just theories, they work all together.

For the flat earth theory I find very little scientific proof that could actually work. All I find are "believe what you see" and "see: the earth is flat out of a plane" or "we can't feel the movement of the earth, therefore it doesn't move" or things like this.

Of course we could believe anything if we just want to believe it, but creating a working method (like physics and mathematics) that anyone smart enough to understand is able to use to demonstrate round-earth theories is not so simple.

And about santa claus... I hope you are kidding. Even if the concept of money put into christmas or the round-earth scam is similar, there is no way someone would lie about something like this just because it's fun to see the happy faces on people... (or whatever you think this "big christmas" of the round-earth could do to humanity). People don't care about other people, especially if they are rich or powerful. They don't care if normal people like us believe in round or flat earth. They would never go through all this effort just to make us believe something that doesn't bring to any outcome (not for them, not for us).

A lovely and flowering response, none of which has ever been posted before in the annals of these forums.

Of course the rich and powerful do not care about us.

That is why millions upon millions of dollars are spent to maintain power over...wait for it...

US!

Ok, they want to control us. How are they doing it by telling us that the earth is a sphere? How is is a different kind of control than if they told us the earth was flat? What would change in their control over us if they told us the earth is flat?

If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?

Ok, all this scam could prove that people are gullable and would believe anything. But this can be proved without spending tons of money in a hoax so big. You also have to carry on that hoax for... I think... ever, since you just can't come up one day saying "hey, it was all fake" because you don't know what to do with it anymore.

They proved that they can convince people of things as great as the earth's shape, but this is completely useless. couldn't they have done that on something that brings actual profit to them? It is a great waste of money to continue with this lie that doesn't bring to anything other than saying "look at those stupid poor people believing in our big and well organized scam. haha". This seems absolutely pointless to me. It doesn't make sense.

If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?

You yourself have been convinced that the Earth is flat.

What else have you been convinced of?

Quote from: totallackey on December 04, 2017, 03:48:41 PM

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 03:35:29 PM

Quote from: totallackey on December 04, 2017, 03:13:58 PM

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 02:57:50 PM

about the self-sealing and self-illuminating things, round-earth teories are always backed by physics theories. and yes, they may be just theories, but with mathematics and calculations, all their theories work, everything that they prove actually gives a mathematic outcome that is right according to their calculation models. Therefore, even if they are just theories, they work all together.

For the flat earth theory I find very little scientific proof that could actually work. All I find are "believe what you see" and "see: the earth is flat out of a plane" or "we can't feel the movement of the earth, therefore it doesn't move" or things like this.

Of course we could believe anything if we just want to believe it, but creating a working method (like physics and mathematics) that anyone smart enough to understand is able to use to demonstrate round-earth theories is not so simple.

And about santa claus... I hope you are kidding. Even if the concept of money put into christmas or the round-earth scam is similar, there is no way someone would lie about something like this just because it's fun to see the happy faces on people... (or whatever you think this "big christmas" of the round-earth could do to humanity). People don't care about other people, especially if they are rich or powerful. They don't care if normal people like us believe in round or flat earth. They would never go through all this effort just to make us believe something that doesn't bring to any outcome (not for them, not for us).

A lovely and flowering response, none of which has ever been posted before in the annals of these forums.

Of course the rich and powerful do not care about us.

That is why millions upon millions of dollars are spent to maintain power over...wait for it...

US!

Ok, they want to control us. How are they doing it by telling us that the earth is a sphere? How is is a different kind of control than if they told us the earth was flat? What would change in their control over us if they told us the earth is flat?

If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?

Ok, all this scam could prove that people are gullable and would believe anything. But this can be proved without spending tons of money in a hoax so big. You also have to carry on that hoax for... I think... ever, since you just can't come up one day saying "hey, it was all fake" because you don't know what to do with it anymore.

I asked you to answer the question and if you are not going to put any effort into answering the question and writing a legible answer here in response to that question, I see no purpose in continuing the conversation.

You know there are more responses to offer than the very simplistic response you typed.

They proved that they can convince people of things as great as the earth's shape, but this is completely useless. couldn't they have done that on something that brings actual profit to them?

"Actual profit," is loosely defined by you(as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions) and subjectively defined by me (as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions.)

Let's simplify it. I just convinced you of the FACT your significant other is a cheating scoundrel. I made the whole thing up. Spliced photographs and audiotapes, fake affidavits, etc. I spent some significant funds on this project. Trust me, if I could convince you of that I would make some actual profit eventually, but in the immediate what is more short term and powerful?

It is a great waste of money to continue with this lie that doesn't bring to anything other than saying "look at those stupid poor people believing in our big and well organized scam. haha". This seems absolutely pointless to me. It doesn't make sense.

Again, if you are not going to exercise a semblance of "honest and sincere effort," in terms of answering and responding in writing to the questions I pose, I must bid you a good day.

"If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?"

Do you want an answer to this question? ok, here it is: "anything". of course they could convince you to believe in anything after making you believe this, but this brings to the other part of what I wrote (I just thought you would read my answer, which is "anything", between my "philosophical lines of discussion"): Why convince you of this instead of something that could give them a profit?


"Actual profit," is loosely defined by you(as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions) and subjectively defined by me (as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions.)"

I don't think you defined your idea of "profit" other than saying that their profit would be to control us but ok:

Definition of "profit" taken by the Oxford Dictionary:

NOUN
1) A financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.

2) mass noun. Advantage; benefit.

This is what I meant by "profit", since the word itself implies a meaning which I didn't think I had to explain.



Let's simplify it. I just convinced you of the FACT your significant other is a cheating scoundrel. I made the whole thing up. Spliced photographs and audiotapes, fake affidavits, etc. I spent some significant funds on this project. Trust me, if I could convince you of that I would make some actual profit eventually, but in the immediate what is more short term and powerful?

I don't think the example you made is appropriate. If you would do what you explained it would be out of rage, revenge or just for your hypothetical sick pleasure of ruining someone's life. And your profit in this case would be the satisfaction in seeing my life ruined, whatever your reason for doing it was.

But in the case of the round earth theory, whether long or short term, there is no profit (and I would like to remind you that the meaning of this word is explained just above or in any dictionary). There is nothing other than the satisfaction in knowing that people believed your lie, but we know that rich and powerful people don't care about this.




Again, if you are not going to exercise a semblance of "honest and sincere effort," in terms of answering and responding in writing to the questions I pose, I must bid you a good day.

I hope that I did, now. And now try and answer this: Since you believe this is all a scam, what would be (in your opinion) the - long and/or short term -profit  for those who are doing it?

How much money do the "space" agencies need to get every year before you consider that profit?

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 02:37:46 PM

2) it could be self-sealing, but at this point we are running on pure imagination.

As is most of the heliocentric, globe earth theory, I would argue.

And you would be wrong.
Most of mainstream science is backed up by mountains of evidence, including Earth orbitting the sun, being a round and rotating about its axis.

Actually, my statement here (as was my statement in regard to the self-sealing properties of the dome) is the very first step in the scientific method.

No, it is closer to the second.
The first step would be making observations. The second is making a hypothesis which should fit these observations. You then test this model. This is the part where FE fails.
Until you do this testing it isn't science.

LOL! Are you kidding me?

LOTS AND LOTS of money!!!

Spent on a supposed scam...

Yes, that's the key part, it is all spent.
Nothing left to profit from.

Of course the rich and powerful do not care about us.

That is why millions upon millions of dollars are spent to maintain power over...wait for it...

You fail to understand the objection.
Pretending Earth is round doesn't help them.
They can still have control if they say Earth is flat.

If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?

That they are gods or the prophets/messengers of God(s) or God's representative on Earth that you should obey, or some nonsense like that.

But that is far more profitable than pretending Earth isn't the shape it is.
Why would they waste their efforts on something like Earth's shape when there are far better things to con you into believing?

The only reason would be if this lie then led into something else, such as those that claim Earth is flat and their religion says that to try to get you to believe their religion.

How much money do the "space" agencies need to get every year before you consider that profit?

how about enough to make a decent profit after it is all spread around.

Regardless that still doesn't help your case as they could still get this money if Earth was flat and they said it was, but they would be free to waste far less of it.

Even if they didn't want to put it towards space travel, as it is primarily based upon taxes do you really think you have any control over it?

They don't need Earth to be round to take money from you and pad their own pockets.

I back JackBlack (lol, nice play on words xD) on everything. Exactly what I thought and why in my opinion the "round earth is a scam" theory doesn't hold at all (and there also are maaany other not provable facts that they just come up with)

I back JackBlack (lol, nice play on words xD) on everything. Exactly what I thought and why in my opinion the "round earth is a scam" theory doesn't hold at all.

Well there you go. You came in to verify what you wanted to verify and seem extremely happy with the answers to your questions.
There you go, your job is done. No conspiracies and those in power love to tell the truth in all matters and we all get to share Earth's spoils that we all partake in being in  equal share of....aren't we?

When someone picks your pocket or burgles your home or steals your car or mugs you for your possessions as well as those that sell you fictional overseas properties on the shake of the hand after the gift of the gab is over, then just remember that only the bad people do that and your people in power would never ever sell you anything that wasn't a reality or rob you or tell you lies about anything.


Never ever believe that a football stadium full of fans can't all know what the owner has in store for them or even the people behind the scenes, unless they're on a need to kn ow basis.
As long as you pay your money and feel part of it all then you can tell all and sundry that you're in the know and no way can you be duped.


You carry on believing anything and everything you're told. It'll never change your life because your life will simply change to go with the mainstream flow as it always has and always will.
But when you're sat there wondering why nobody's there to help you when you need it most, it's because those that need it most are waiting for you to help them.
The one's that put you in that situation are those that want you most but only for their own wants as well as needs but are not willing to share the wants.


In life, Polly robs Peter to pay Paul. Peter robs Polly of the stuff that Polly robbed from Peter to pay Paul.
Paul robs Polly and Peter to pay himself and hands back a small portion to each so they're strong enough to be productive enough to rob each other and to keep paying Paul while Paul continues to hand back a small portion each time.
Paule will always paint them a picture of the future and hang it on a string in front of their forward foraging as they try to walk into it yet never get any closer to it.

Can you guess who Paul is?

Quote from: Pixie on December 05, 2017, 01:34:46 AM

I back JackBlack (lol, nice play on words xD) on everything. Exactly what I thought and why in my opinion the "round earth is a scam" theory doesn't hold at all.

Well there you go. You came in to verify what you wanted to verify and seem extremely happy with the answers to your questions.
There you go, your job is done. No conspiracies and those in power love to tell the truth in all matters and we all get to share Earth's spoils that we all partake in being in  equal share of....aren't we?

When someone picks your pocket or burgles your home or steals your car or mugs you for your possessions as well as those that sell you fictional overseas properties on the shake of the hand after the gift of the gab is over, then just remember that only the bad people do that and your people in power would never ever sell you anything that wasn't a reality or rob you or tell you lies about anything.


Never ever believe that a football stadium full of fans can't all know what the owner has in store for them or even the people behind the scenes, unless they're on a need to kn ow basis.
As long as you pay your money and feel part of it all then you can tell all and sundry that you're in the know and no way can you be duped.


You carry on believing anything and everything you're told. It'll never change your life because your life will simply change to go with the mainstream flow as it always has and always will.
But when you're sat there wondering why nobody's there to help you when you need it most, it's because those that need it most are waiting for you to help them.
The one's that put you in that situation are those that want you most but only for their own wants as well as needs but are not willing to share the wants.


In life, Polly robs Peter to pay Paul. Peter robs Polly of the stuff that Polly robbed from Peter to pay Paul.
Paul robs Polly and Peter to pay himself and hands back a small portion to each so they're strong enough to be productive enough to rob each other and to keep paying Paul while Paul continues to hand back a small portion each time.
Paule will always paint them a picture of the future and hang it on a string in front of their forward foraging as they try to walk into it yet never get any closer to it.

Can you guess who Paul is?

First of all, if I choose to believe that the earth is round I don't automatically believe anything that powerful people say (for example, even if I believe that space exists, I still don't believe we went on the moon).

Second of all, I came here to get clear answers from flat earthers that could sustain their theories and fill my voids about this theory. all i'm getting are imagined ideas with absolutely no scientific proof, but theories about round earth can explain everything you ask them about their theory, so where are your basis other than in your desire to go against the "stupid masses" and against the "evil powerful people that lie to us about anything"?
They may lie about some things, but there are some lies that would be too big even for them (such as the space one), since they are rich and powerful, but not omnipotent.

And last but not least, your hour-long post still deviate from my question and therefore proves that you flat earthers only speak because you have a tongue in your mouth (as we would say in my language).

If you want me to believe your theory, at least tell me what would be the benefit (and profit) of all this scam. (and don't say "to control us", because I think it is clear that they would never go through such an effort in time and resources just to control us, thing which they could easily do even if they told us the earth was flat!)

Oh, I forgot about the Paul story...

still the same concept of the "to control us" thing. They would do all that, spend all that money and useless effort just to make us produce more because we imagine a greater future?
That sounds a little far-fetched to me anyway, since this would be a scam that you continue to develop just so people produce. But people would produce anyway because everyone wants to get rich and live well and that's what drives them.

And with the time going by, you would have to colonize planets and go far from the solar system, just to keep the thing new and going so that people look at it as a possible thing. But what happens when we will eventually ask to go to space? just like with planes, in a future so developed people will want to go to space and go travel and they would also pay for it (and don't tell me that the bad powerful people won't make it affordable because they won't be able to at a certain point) what will you do then? kill them all? pay for their silence?

All this seems a lot of effort and risk just so that population "produces more envisaging a greater future"

your people in power would never ever sell you anything that wasn't a reality or rob you or tell you lies about anything.

And again you ignore the key objection.
They have no reason to pretend Earth is round, and doing so seems to cost them a lot of money.
So why would they do it?

Wouldn't it be easier to just pretend it is something else, like secret military projects which the public can't know about?

Quote from: sceptimatic on December 05, 2017, 01:59:49 AM

your people in power would never ever sell you anything that wasn't a reality or rob you or tell you lies about anything.

And again you ignore the key objection.
They have no reason to pretend Earth is round, and doing so seems to cost them a lot of money.
So why would they do it?

Wouldn't it be easier to just pretend it is something else, like secret military projects which the public can't know about?

I agree, and just like we do with area 51, people would still make conspiracies and invent theories about that "secret icy place the government keeps for itself", so they would still
be driven to discovery even though they would never discover anything

"If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?"

Do you want an answer to this question? ok, here it is: "anything". of course they could convince you to believe in anything after making you believe this, but this brings to the other part of what I wrote (I just thought you would read my answer, which is "anything", between my "philosophical lines of discussion"): Why convince you of this instead of something that could give them a profit?


"Actual profit," is loosely defined by you(as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions) and subjectively defined by me (as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions.)"

I don't think you defined your idea of "profit" other than saying that their profit would be to control us but ok:

Definition of "profit" taken by the Oxford Dictionary:

NOUN
1) A financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.

2) mass noun. Advantage; benefit.

This is what I meant by "profit", since the word itself implies a meaning which I didn't think I had to explain.

An entity, capable of deceiving/compromising your mind to the point of causing you to deny the very nature of the world that surrounds you does indeed have an advantage and does indeed continue to benefit.

Let's simplify it. I just convinced you of the FACT your significant other is a cheating scoundrel. I made the whole thing up. Spliced photographs and audiotapes, fake affidavits, etc. I spent some significant funds on this project. Trust me, if I could convince you of that I would make some actual profit eventually, but in the immediate what is more short term and powerful?

I don't think the example you made is appropriate. If you would do what you explained it would be out of rage, revenge or just for your hypothetical sick pleasure of ruining someone's life. And your profit in this case would be the satisfaction in seeing my life ruined, whatever your reason for doing it was.

But in the case of the round earth theory, whether long or short term, there is no profit (and I would like to remind you that the meaning of this word is explained just above or in any dictionary). There is nothing other than the satisfaction in knowing that people believed your lie, but we know that rich and powerful people don't care about this.

I think my analog was precisely spot on.

And evidently, the term, "weapons of mass destruction," was lost on you. The rich and powerful care a great deal about us and what we believe. That is is why there is 24/7 lie telling broadcast over your TV.

Again, if you are not going to exercise a semblance of "honest and sincere effort," in terms of answering and responding in writing to the questions I pose, I must bid you a good day.

I hope that I did, now. And now try and answer this: Since you believe this is all a scam, what would be (in your opinion) the - long and/or short term -profit  for those who are doing it?

Short term? - Control

Long term? - Continued control.

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 05:15:09 PM

"If a person could convince you of something false regarding the very nature of reality that surrounds you, what else could they convince you of?"

Do you want an answer to this question? ok, here it is: "anything". of course they could convince you to believe in anything after making you believe this, but this brings to the other part of what I wrote (I just thought you would read my answer, which is "anything", between my "philosophical lines of discussion"): Why convince you of this instead of something that could give them a profit?


"Actual profit," is loosely defined by you(as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions) and subjectively defined by me (as has been a great deal of other terms within such philosophical discussions.)"

I don't think you defined your idea of "profit" other than saying that their profit would be to control us but ok:

Definition of "profit" taken by the Oxford Dictionary:

NOUN
1) A financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.

2) mass noun. Advantage; benefit.

This is what I meant by "profit", since the word itself implies a meaning which I didn't think I had to explain.

An entity, capable of deceiving/compromising your mind to the point of causing you to deny the very nature of the world that surrounds you does indeed have an advantage and does indeed continue to benefit.

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 05:15:09 PM

Let's simplify it. I just convinced you of the FACT your significant other is a cheating scoundrel. I made the whole thing up. Spliced photographs and audiotapes, fake affidavits, etc. I spent some significant funds on this project. Trust me, if I could convince you of that I would make some actual profit eventually, but in the immediate what is more short term and powerful?

I don't think the example you made is appropriate. If you would do what you explained it would be out of rage, revenge or just for your hypothetical sick pleasure of ruining someone's life. And your profit in this case would be the satisfaction in seeing my life ruined, whatever your reason for doing it was.

But in the case of the round earth theory, whether long or short term, there is no profit (and I would like to remind you that the meaning of this word is explained just above or in any dictionary). There is nothing other than the satisfaction in knowing that people believed your lie, but we know that rich and powerful people don't care about this.

I think my analog was precisely spot on.

And evidently, the term, "weapons of mass destruction," was lost on you. The rich and powerful care a great deal about us and what we believe. That is is why there is 24/7 lie telling broadcast over your TV.

Quote from: Pixie on December 04, 2017, 05:15:09 PM

Again, if you are not going to exercise a semblance of "honest and sincere effort," in terms of answering and responding in writing to the questions I pose, I must bid you a good day.

I hope that I did, now. And now try and answer this: Since you believe this is all a scam, what would be (in your opinion) the - long and/or short term -profit  for those who are doing it?

Short term? - Control

Long term? - Continued control.

You keep avoiding my point.

I get that they would do this to control us, but how is it any different from controlling us if the earth is flat?

Whether they say it's round or flat, they would still have control over us, over everything. A fantasy of an existing space is just something that costs them too much and doesn't bring to them any more control over us than the one they already have.

Short term? - Control

Long term? - Continued control.

You're missing the point.  Please explain directly, no questions or implications, how tricking the world's population the Earth is round instead of flat yields any sort of profit or control? 

No one doubts that governments lie, and that the wealthy and powerful exploit the poor and weak.  What is missing is a motive for this specific lie, which seems about as useful as convincing everyone the core of the Earth is made of pudding. 

If there was some hidden benefit of a flat Earth that could be exploited by convincing everyone it was round, I would absolutely believe it was possible for someone to try to tell that lie.  But with no material difference one way or the other, it would be a huge investment of time and resources for no gain, and that makes no sense.  That investment of time and resources could be (and most likely is) used to tell lies that actually give tangible rewards to the liars. 

I just doubt that billionaires and world leaders are as interested in fooling people for years just for the laughs. 

The deceit keeps everyone down. We learn to see falsehood, and we see the world through that lens. Things are hidden behind curvature, places are able to be put higher than another to give undeserved status, geography and distance and the material become our concerns rather than spiritual growth.
The only recourse is to reject it and to help your soul grow, and by doing that allow yourself to see the world as it really is. Flat, all of us equal, all of us important, and the only status that matters is how much light we hold.

Lindsey

The deceit keeps everyone down. We learn to see falsehood, and we see the world through that lens. Things are hidden behind curvature, places are able to be put higher than another to give undeserved status, geography and distance and the material become our concerns rather than spiritual growth.
The only recourse is to reject it and to help your soul grow, and by doing that allow yourself to see the world as it really is. Flat, all of us equal, all of us important, and the only status that matters is how much light we hold.

Lindsey

I'm sorry but we are not speaking about souls or spiritual things here. We are trying to make an argument based on facts and logic.

The spiritual argument is a whole other discussion.

Quote from: 41317 on December 05, 2017, 11:21:49 AM

The deceit keeps everyone down. We learn to see falsehood, and we see the world through that lens. Things are hidden behind curvature, places are able to be put higher than another to give undeserved status, geography and distance and the material become our concerns rather than spiritual growth.
The only recourse is to reject it and to help your soul grow, and by doing that allow yourself to see the world as it really is. Flat, all of us equal, all of us important, and the only status that matters is how much light we hold.

Lindsey

I'm sorry but we are not speaking about souls or spiritual things here. We are trying to make an argument based on facts and logic.

The spiritual argument is a whole other discussion.

The spirit is part of the world, and the most important part.

Lindsey