Greetings!

Hi Joe, as someone you regard as approaching the 7th stage I hope you can value my judge of character

The answers provided by Definitely Not Official I believe to be genuine. Through my time on the forum I have gotten to know him and what he values and he is someone who has always been true to himself and others. He has always been fair and reasonable. I think you can have confidence in gauging his responses as truthful.

I can also endorse the character of DNO.  He lives in Greece which is next to Turkey where Intikam is.  That's so weird.  DNO is a short driver away from Intikam.

Quote from: boydster on December 12, 2017, 04:14:06 PM

Who came up with the ranks?

They were communicated to Joe by a soul that had attained the first stage, and he communicated them to us. No one 'came up' with them, they describe the progress of human souls on their journey. When you alter stage you do truly feel it, it is more than an abstract.

Lindsey

Does anyone else see a parallel with how Moonshramps revealed themselves to John Davis in a dream?

I also noticed someone called Heather is now posting. Heather, do you have any body piercings?

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 13, 2017, 03:15:19 AM

Quote from: 41317 on December 12, 2017, 04:12:13 PM

The 4-13-17 comes from the averages in various areas. In much of the west the average is stage 13, in Italy it is 17, in locales such as China and Japan it is 4. Not everyone will be at that number, but it is a starting point.

Hmmm....lets just look at this.  So the bottom level is 17 and in Italy it is also the average.  Implying that almost everyone in Italy is level 17.  Which means that everyone in Italy is "incapable of even empathy".  A nation of cold hearted psychopaths.    Of course, Italians are famous for their lack of emotion.

On the other hand in China and Japan the average level is 4, implying that a large proportion of the population are at the top 3 ranks

Quote

The 3rd stage have the ability to truly perceive the world as it is, not ruled by the sickness spread by those that mean ill.

Those at the 2nd stage are capable of feats such as astral projection and understanding auras.

The 1st stage is godhood. Only a handful of people throughout history, such as Christ and Barachiel, have attained it. "

Is that why Japan produces so much amine porn?

How did you come up with these national averages, exactly?

A soul at the seventeenth stag eis not necessarily a psychopath,

Well, you said that they are "incapable of even empathy" - which is pretty much the definition.  But, whatever.  However you are saying this about the entire Italian nation - don't you think this is kind of silly and obviously not true?

The averages stem from the numbers viewed as unlucky in certain cultures.

So Italy has always been at 17 and will always stay at this stage?   Because that unlucky number isn't going away. And does this numbering system respect national borders? Do you cross into Austria and suddenly they are at a higher level of enlightenment?    And what is the average rank in Austria?

So, how do you know that an unlucky number is an indication of what stage they are at?  Presumably someone just told you without any evidence?

I would also like to point out my concern for using 'Stage 4' as a starting point or average for Chinese people. Just a disclaimer, my wife is Chinese and I have spent some time over there. I could agree you could call them a 4 if this were centuries ago but today, China is fiercely capitalistic. People there value money far more than life and even 'buy money' to take with them to the afterlife. If someone injures you with their car, and you are alive, they will back over you as any times as they need to have you die. Because in their mentality, it is cheaper for them. We have all seen many horror stories of injured children left by the road with dozens of passers by ignoring their cries until they are run over again. We have heard what Chinese companies did to their baby food, how they used lead paint in children's toys despite it being banned for good reason. We know about the 'gutter oil' where they dredge up sewage, refine it a little and sell it off as cooking oil, or their 'fake foods' where they use cardboard or other toxic chemicals to enhance their profit taking

The government in China is also accused of some very gross human rights violations and information is constantly manipulated and supressed from its people.

For Chinese to be judged as anywhere near a 4 is concerning and doesn't reflect the real world. There have been some notable individuals who have risen above the selfish greed but for the most part, China is nothing like what you have read. That culture that you read in books no longer exists. I would regard many Chinese to be at level 17 because empathy and altruism are traits that Chinese people (most, not all) do not have (or only have to their immediate family - never anyone outside it). They are too concerned with profit as money is their God

empathy and altruism are traits that Chinese people (most, not all) do not have (or only have to their immediate family - never anyone outside it). They are too concerned with profit as money is their God

i am glad that Chinese people in malaysia are just like anybody else

Quote from: Shifter on December 13, 2017, 01:29:40 PM

empathy and altruism are traits that Chinese people (most, not all) do not have (or only have to their immediate family - never anyone outside it). They are too concerned with profit as money is their God

i am glad that Chinese people in malaysia are just like anybody else

So are you saying in Malaysia if you are run over and survive, you can expect to be run over again until you die? Do dozens of passers by ignore a crying child in the middle of the road and allow it to but hit by traffic multiple times? Do they dredge up your sewage and sell it off as cooking oil? There are some terrible examples of humanity on display I believe are unique to the Chinese mainland.

Still, you are the one living in Malaysia, I wont tell you how it works over there. Perhaps the hideous lack of humanity exists in bounds where you live too?

Quote from: FalseProphet on December 13, 2017, 01:43:14 PM

Quote from: Shifter on December 13, 2017, 01:29:40 PM

empathy and altruism are traits that Chinese people (most, not all) do not have (or only have to their immediate family - never anyone outside it). They are too concerned with profit as money is their God

i am glad that Chinese people in malaysia are just like anybody else

So are you saying in Malaysia if you are run over and survive, you can expect to be run over again until you die? Do dozens of passers by ignore a crying child in the middle of the road and allow it to but hit by traffic multiple times? Do they dredge up your sewage and sell it off as cooking oil? There are some terrible examples of humanity on display I believe are unique to the Chinese mainland.

we all like that cheap cooking oil.

Quote from: 41317 on December 12, 2017, 04:15:48 PM

Quote from: boydster on December 12, 2017, 04:14:06 PM

Who came up with the ranks?

They were communicated to Joe by a soul that had attained the first stage, and he communicated them to us. No one 'came up' with them, they describe the progress of human souls on their journey. When you alter stage you do truly feel it, it is more than an abstract.

Lindsey

Does anyone else see a parallel with how Moonshramps revealed themselves to John Davis in a dream?

Again you are confusing myself with James. However, I do see a parallel between scientific discovery and dreams, visions and other mystical experiences:

One of the most frequently asked questions of me is "Why do you believe in the flat earth theory?"

Often I will respond honestly, and say due to mystical experience. I will now empirically validate madness as valid method.

Quote

"I feel very much like Dirac: the idea of a personal God is foreign to me. But we ought to remember that religion uses language in quite a different way from science. The language of religion is more closely related to the language of poetry than to the language of science. True, we are inclined to think that science deals with information about objective facts, and poetry with subjective feelings. Hence we conclude that if religion does indeed deal with objective truths, it ought to adopt the same criteria of truth as science. But I myself find the division of the world into an objective and a subjective side much too arbitrary. The fact that religions through the ages have spoken in images, parables, and paradoxes means simply that there are no other ways of grasping the reality to which they refer. But that does not mean that it is not a genuine reality. And splitting this reality into an objective and a subjective side won't get us very far."

Niels Bohr


When we look at science, we hope to see a rigid yet dynamic system which we use to quantify our world.  Supposedly it is designed from the outright to remove bias with its main tenets dictating a strict non-opinionated and objective approach to understanding and quenching our thirst and curiosity.  At least that is our hope.  In examination, we hope to show that mysticism, hallucinations, dreams and madness in many cases drive our progress in understanding, or at least inspiration leading to understanding, not strictly rational endeavor. Our aim is not to discredit these advances but instead simply to reveal their sources for what they are.  Non-rational and subjective in nature.

Popper would look upon such an endeavor as suspect and an issue of psychology, not the nature of science or knowledge. I firmly disagree on the basis of the potential use to provide a method of sorts. Can elegance really be said to be less psychological?  We can’t make any sort of claim to this effect. What is elegant to the satellite is not elegant to the traveler on Earth. If mysticism is a valid mechanic of discovery and analysis it thus should be placed among the methodologies taught for use in science - despite its dangerous nature.

What exactly do we mean when we say mysticism or when we talk of mystical experience? Perhaps it is best if we discovered this through the context itself, which is to say through examples. We do have hordes of them, after all. And they paint their own picture. However, I will tentatively accept William James definition of religious experience as mystical experience.

Let us first put our attention towards those cases where vast improvements in science, technology, or understanding came through relatively normal (if indeed any of these accounts could be said to be ‘normal’) visions or dreams. Surprisingly it has happened more often than we’d first guess. Perhaps it occurs much more often - as one might be hesitant to talk of such experiences due to social stigma.

The most famous of these visions is like Einstein’s. As a small child in school he had a vision of himself running alongside light. From this he said his work on relativity followed.

Another notable example is Nikola Tesla, known for his integral part in the design of modern alternating current. One day he was taking an ordinary walk as any of us might and a vision appeared to him of rotating burning wheels. From this came the invention of the Electric Motor in 1887.

Dreams as we can see are not an uncommon method of inspiration and enlightenment. Otto Loewi, the father of neuroscience, had a dream on Easter Sunday 1923. He woke up, grabbed a nearby pad and scribbled down an experiment to prove that the transmission of nerve impulses was chemical and not electrical. In the morning, struggle as he could he simply was unable to read his writing. Luckily for us he had the same dream the next day and this upon waking went straight to work, and won himself a Nobel Prize for it.

Ahh, but there are more! So much more that we must be dainty in our selection, for like Rowbotham we are overwhelmed by the truth in all directions. So much more we must question how blind those are who deny that science has irrationality at its core!

August Keke discovered the ring shape of the benzene molecule under the influence of a daydream. In 1855 he had a daydream of the ouroboros while on a horse-drawn omnibus in London. To him it appeared as dancing atoms and molecules that directly led to his discovery.

Paul Davies recalls another for us in The Mind of God

Quote

For other scientists the revelatory experience happens spontaneously, in the midst of the daily clamor. Fred Hoyle relates such an incident that occurred to him while he was driving through the North of England. “Rather as the revelation occurred to Paul on the Road to Damascus, mine occurred on the road over Bowes Moor.” …. One day, as they were struggling over a particularly complicated integral, Hoyle decided to take a vacation from Cambridge to join some colleagues hiking in the Scottish Highlands:

“As the miles slipped by I turned the quantum mechanical problem … over in my mind, in the hazy way I normally have in thinking mathematics in my head. Normally, I have to write things down on paper, and then fiddle with the equations and integrals as best I can. But somewhere on Bowes Moor my awareness of the mathematics clarified, not a little, not even a lot, but as if a huge brilliant light had suddenly been switched on. ….” [pgs 228-229]

Paul Dirac, known to some as The Mystic of the Atom, would frequently have small revelations that guided his work. He was off taking a walk to get away from his work one day on the Cambridgeshire countryside when out of blue he gained slight visual insight into the problem at hand: the non-commuting quantities in Heisenberg's theory. This was pretty common for him. (126 The Strangest Man, Graham Farmelo)

So often do insights come from these non-mundane sources it is inevitable that some would try to reach such states to steal insight through non-natural methods. And this is exactly what folks do.

Thomas Crick, co-discoverer of the double Helix structure of DNA, tells the story of how his use of LSD lead to this amazing discovery. He reveals to us that he would regularly take LSD and that it helped him to unravel the structure of DNA, and thus winning him the Nobel Prize.

Kary Mullis tells the BBC in their Psychedelic Scene documentary:

Quote

“What if I had not taken LSD ever, would I have still invented PCR? I don’t know. I doubt it. I seriously doubt it.”

  The evidence is stacking. Hordes upon hordes of instances, such that we only need to show a few to expose the truth. And yet like the walking dead they shamble around us. Hungry to be heard.

Carl Sagan was often known to smoke cannabis which he claimed in Marihuana Reconsidered “helped him intellectually.” Richard Feynman set up deprivation tanks and experimented with pot to “explore human consciousness”. Edison fueled his life by Vin Mariani, a cocaine infused wine that allowed him to sleep only 4 hours a night. Steve Jobs recounts his LSD experience as the “single most important event of my life.” But enough about those who found their way artificially. Far more interesting are the tales of natural experiences of this sort. Those that touch us to believe there is another abstract Platonic realm.

As it happens accomplished Physicist and Mathematician Roger Penrose has spoken often of “breaking through to the Platonic Realm.” Godel as well talked of experience with a realm where he could perceive mathematical objects. Of course this theme is not new to mysticism.

Others tell of an almost sixth sense from which they receive revelation. Einstein, oft mentioned in the pages of this book, would talk of a ‘cosmic religious feeling.’  Both David Bohm and Brian Josephson, another nobel prize winner, have been known to meditate to gain mystical insights to guide their creation of theory.

David Peat talks of his experiences

Quote

A remarkable feeling of intensity that seems to flood the whole world around us with meaning … we sense that we are touching something universal and perhaps eternal so that the particular moment in time takes on a numinous character and seems to expand in time without limit. We sense that all boundaries between ourselves and the outer world vanish, for what we are experiencing lies beyond all categories and all attempts to be captured in logical thought

Okay, I can see you’ve had enough. But alas, there is so much more!

Here we must mention those ideas that sprang from decidedly mystical origins. A prime example being Heliocentrism whose origins, of course, are from mystical traditions in both Ancient Greek and Ancient Egypt. Aside from heliocentrism, Copernicus’s view that god can be known through study of the universe is what put his famous work on the Church’s Restricted Book List - it had nothing to do with some war between science and religion as we will discuss later.  Likewise, Faraday’s passion was summed up by his statement: “unravelling the mysteries of nature was to discover the manifestations of god.” Johannes Kepler saw God as a geometer and was influenced strongly by numerology. Newton himself was a strong believer in astrology.

Madness is inherently tied to method.

That was a novel! Believe it or not I read the whole thing. I couldn’t really follow the train of thought. But it was interesting.

Quote from: Shifter on December 13, 2017, 01:51:06 PM

Quote from: FalseProphet on December 13, 2017, 01:43:14 PM

Quote from: Shifter on December 13, 2017, 01:29:40 PM

empathy and altruism are traits that Chinese people (most, not all) do not have (or only have to their immediate family - never anyone outside it). They are too concerned with profit as money is their God

i am glad that Chinese people in malaysia are just like anybody else

So are you saying in Malaysia if you are run over and survive, you can expect to be run over again until you die? Do dozens of passers by ignore a crying child in the middle of the road and allow it to but hit by traffic multiple times? Do they dredge up your sewage and sell it off as cooking oil? There are some terrible examples of humanity on display I believe are unique to the Chinese mainland.

we all like that cheap cooking oil.

Hmm. Upon reflection this could actually explain a few things. And you.

If you don't believe me that I'm honest, you can ask Boots or Crutonius or Bullwinkle or User or someone. We've had a few private conversations and they know that I'm honest better. Looking forward to Joe's assesment.

DNO is a very straight shooter. His words are true! 

Quote from: Shifter on December 13, 2017, 12:58:01 PM

Hi Joe, as someone you regard as approaching the 7th stage I hope you can value my judge of character

The answers provided by Definitely Not Official I believe to be genuine. Through my time on the forum I have gotten to know him and what he values and he is someone who has always been true to himself and others. He has always been fair and reasonable. I think you can have confidence in gauging his responses as truthful.

I can also endorse the character of DNO.  He lives in Greece which is next to Turkey where Intikam is.  That's so weird.  DNO is a short driver away from Intikam.

Not really, there's a sea in between.

Hmm. Upon reflection this could actually explain a few things. And you.

I have dealt with false prophet quite a bit. It seems he may fall in the category you described unfortunately.

Quote from: Babyhighspeed on December 13, 2017, 02:23:27 AM

I would love to visit the commune, is this possible? I love seeing different ways of life and learn what I can from it. Never know, may never leave.

I have to go to Michigan for business before Christmas, it is just a hop skip and a jump to Minnesota from there.

*Edit spelling

I apologise, but I am not giving our precise location away online, particularly to those I know little about. Even for those that I speak with in person, it often takes weeks before they are invited. The commune is a place away from the negativity and distracts of the wider world, but many who live in it wittingly or otherwise carry much of it with them.
If you wish to understand us and what we do, I am happy to talk whether by PM or in the main forum.

Joe

That's a shame. I am not looking to bring any negativity or anything such.

I would certainly be willing to communicate privately as well as break anonymity. However, it seems y'all want to stay hidden.

Hi everyone connected to 41317, you haven't posted here in a while. Is everything okay with you guys? Getting worried. Let us know you're okay.

Joe, are you still there?

I have been learning so much enlightenment from your site.  I think I'm almost at stage 3 now.

Question;  As a stage three I feel a lot of hostility towards those that are less enlightened than me.  How can I make sure that as much harm falls upon them as possible?  I spend 45 minutes everyday meditating on their misfortune but is that enough?

Joe, are you still there?

I have been learning so much enlightenment from your site.  I think I'm almost at stage 3 now.

Question;  As a stage three I feel a lot of hostility towards those that are less enlightened than me.  How can I make sure that as much harm falls upon them as possible?  I spend 45 minutes everyday meditating on their misfortune but is that enough?

You should not wish any harm to your enemies. You should pray for them, so that like you, they can become enlightened. The fact that you would spend so long each day stewing in hatred and judgment wishing harm upon others you feel are beneath you suggests you are not stage 3. As an 8th stage I think I can accurately gauge you between stages 15-17.

Perhaps after a solid week in isolation, becoming one with nature and finding yourself again, you can come back to us maybe at around the 9th or 10th stage. Here is someone who can guide you on your quest. Because of his eccentric views he is not to be played while you are at work.



Let us know how you go, crudtonius. We wish you good health and happiness!

Quote from: crutonius on December 18, 2017, 05:49:53 PM

Joe, are you still there?

I have been learning so much enlightenment from your site.  I think I'm almost at stage 3 now.

Question;  As a stage three I feel a lot of hostility towards those that are less enlightened than me.  How can I make sure that as much harm falls upon them as possible?  I spend 45 minutes everyday meditating on their misfortune but is that enough?

You should not wish any harm to your enemies. You should pray for them, so that like you, they can become enlightened. The fact that you would spend so long each day stewing in hatred and judgment wishing harm upon others you feel are beneath you suggests you are not stage 3. As an 8th stage I think I can accurately gauge you between stages 15-17.

Perhaps after a solid week in isolation, becoming one with nature and finding yourself again, you can come back to us maybe at around the 9th or 10th stage. Here is someone who can guide you on your quest. Because of his eccentric views he is not to be played while you are at work.



Let us know how you go, crudtonius. We wish you good health and happiness!

I remember when I was an 8 like you.  So young, so naive.  It seems I have much to teach you.

Just because I have the rage does not make me unenlightened.  There are many enlightened people who have used a kind of holy rage, like Jesus tipping over the money tables.  Or Krampus who mutilates young children when they're naughty.  Here is an enlightened one using a holy rage on a keyboard.



I have reached such a state of enlightenment that I can now meditate and drive at the same time.  On a straightaway I just let go of the wheel and close my eyes.  My righteousness protect me.  When I'm at a stop sign, I close my eyes and plug my ears and just meditate for 5 minutes.  It really serves to remind me as to how many unenlightened people there are that they're so jealous of my meditation ability.

Peace to you Shifter.  Walk with Joe.  May you breath deeply in his ass gasses and be enlightened?

Crutonius, as a level 2 I have some advice for you. As you discover and appreciate the gifts of the spiritual world, you must also learn to rediscover and appreciate those of the material world. If you want to communicate your superior knowledge and ideas to ordinary people you need to start making use of their language and their means of expression, for these people do not yet understand your higher level powers. What I'm trying to say is: stop meditating for the misfortune of others. Get out there and get blood on your hands. It's the only way to transcendence.

Both of your souls sound corrupted. I will pray for peace and love to find their way back into your hearts

Both of your souls sound corrupted. I will pray for peace and love to find their way back into your hearts

Fuck off level 8 pleb. I will beat the shit out of your spirit through meditation this night unless you shut the fuck up. Expect me.

My Children,

It is good to see you progressing through the stages.  Please do not squabble amongst yourselves.

I, of course, am now a Level 1.  Here's a selfie I took this morning - hopefully it will inspire you (to worship me).

Quote from: Shifter on December 18, 2017, 11:39:11 PM

Both of your souls sound corrupted. I will pray for peace and love to find their way back into your hearts

Fuck off level 8 pleb. I will beat the shit out of your spirit through meditation this night unless you shut the fuck up. Expect me.

It is sad to see one who achieved so much to fall into the depths of depravity and hatred. As you have now fallen to a stage 17, I do not need to expect you because your soul as been suffocated from the hate you let in your harbour. You however, can expect me  With my help, maybe you can reach the 16th stage.

My Children,

It is good to see you progressing through the stages.  Please do not squabble amongst yourselves.

I, of course, am now a Level 1.  Here's a selfie I took this morning - hopefully it will inspire you (to worship me).

You sound corrupted as well. Clearly this is not you. However in my latest OBE (Out of body experience), I paid you a visit and found you apart from being sodomised at the time by your own Uncle, to be a rather ordinary man but a man with little redeeming qualities if you stay on your current course. I suggest you use the above picture for your own inspiration and kind reminder that you are but a man and not of a God. No man on earth is to be worshipped.

No, Shifter, I am ranked -7 (!), and so I can tell you for sure, Jimmy is an avatar of Vishnu (like Jesus was). He is also the god of pastries on a distant planet in the Virgo cluster.

Who told you that you were a stage 7? I was told I was an 8 by Joe himself. I trust Joe. Where are you Joe?

Minus 7! I have past the 1 long ago. As soon as you reach -1 or -2 you know your stage miraculously. Don't even try to conceive my state of consciousness, you stage 8 gimp!

Greetings fellow communers!

Lindsey

Greetings fellow communers!

Lindsey

What are you doing in Boots' head?

Joe