What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?

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rabinoz

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2017, 01:00:27 AM »

Incorrect, the globe model absolutely 100% simply does match my own real world observations very well.
Ok Rab, let's grab the tools and all the unlimited funds.
Ok I'm ready for you to take me to or show me directly what you absolutely know about your supposed globe and its verification.

Where do we go or what do we do?
I can't offer irrefutable proof as you flat earthers always claim, but I see plenty of evidence:

Go down to the beach and open your eyes!

There is plenty of evidence to be seen just by looking and observing. Even that perfectly flat sea-air horizon provides some evidence.
The fact of a sharp sea-air boundary is evidence of a near horizon, only a few kilometers away and hence curvature.

Then the fact that the distance to the horizon changes with even quite small changes in elevation as in:

Scarborough from 50 cm above water, Beacon 2.6 km away on Horizon
     
Scarborough from 3 m above water, horizon now well past the beacon.
I took the photos and I know for certain that the navigation beacon in those photos is only 2.6 km from the beach.

Those simple photos are, to me, very good evidence of "curved water".

Watch the sun set. When I see:

Sun near setting at Weipa
   

Sunset at Weipa
   

Sun almost gone
To me the sun sure seems to be going down behind something. And I, understandably, interpret that something as the curved ocean surface.
I don't have to invent all sorts of weird hypotheses to explain it away. The looks as though it sets behind the horizon and I believe that it really does.

Yet you flat earthers have to come up with all sorts of hypotheses involving perspective,  atmoplanic lensing, refraction  (grossly excessive and upside down, but so what), none of which really explain what we easily see.

I just believe what I see and don't try to "explain it away".

There are lots more simple observations that do not fit with particulat flat-earth models.
The simplest of these are the possibly the variation of the direction and time of sunrise and sunset over the year.
From what I see out of my own back door the directions certainly do not fit the standard flat earth map, nor this one:

But if you are offering unlimited funds I'd get accurate surveying equipment and measure the dip angle to the horizon from various altitudes ranging from near sea-level to say 50,000 ft.

Then I'd use that equipment to measure the distance corresponding to one degree of longitude and various latitudes.
That is really a waste of time as similar measuremets have been done for centuries and they do not fit on a flat earth!

Those are a few of the simple obversations.
There are many, many more, but since you are allergic to sums I dare not mention those!

All you have to do is to open your eyes, as people have been doing for a couple of thousand years.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2017, 01:04:59 AM »


I hardly think you can refute the evidence for a globe Earth if you can’t even cope with the concept of constant acceleration........
I can cope quite easily with it all.

People are starting to see through the global nonsense and duping. SLOWLY............  BUT SURELY.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2017, 02:05:21 AM »

Incorrect, the globe model absolutely 100% simply does match my own real world observations very well.
Ok Rab, let's grab the tools and all the unlimited funds.
Ok I'm ready for you to take me to or show me directly what you absolutely know about your supposed globe and its verification.

Where do we go or what do we do?
I can't offer irrefutable proof as you flat earthers always claim, but I see plenty of evidence:

Go down to the beach and open your eyes!

There is plenty of evidence to be seen just by looking and observing. Even that perfectly flat sea-air horizon provides some evidence.
The fact of a sharp sea-air boundary is evidence of a near horizon, only a few kilometers away and hence curvature.

Then the fact that the distance to the horizon changes with even quite small changes in elevation as in:

Scarborough from 50 cm above water, Beacon 2.6 km away on Horizon
     
Scarborough from 3 m above water, horizon now well past the beacon.
I took the photos and I know for certain that the navigation beacon in those photos is only 2.6 km from the beach.

Those simple photos are, to me, very good evidence of "curved water".

Watch the sun set. When I see:

Sun near setting at Weipa
   

Sunset at Weipa
   

Sun almost gone
To me the sun sure seems to be going down behind something. And I, understandably, interpret that something as the curved ocean surface.
I don't have to invent all sorts of weird hypotheses to explain it away. The looks as though it sets behind the horizon and I believe that it really does.

Yet you flat earthers have to come up with all sorts of hypotheses involving perspective,  atmoplanic lensing, refraction  (grossly excessive and upside down, but so what), none of which really explain what we easily see.

I just believe what I see and don't try to "explain it away".

There are lots more simple observations that do not fit with particulat flat-earth models.
The simplest of these are the possibly the variation of the direction and time of sunrise and sunset over the year.
From what I see out of my own back door the directions certainly do not fit the standard flat earth map, nor this one:

But if you are offering unlimited funds I'd get accurate surveying equipment and measure the dip angle to the horizon from various altitudes ranging from near sea-level to say 50,000 ft.

Then I'd use that equipment to measure the distance corresponding to one degree of longitude and various latitudes.
That is really a waste of time as similar measuremets have been done for centuries and they do not fit on a flat earth!

Those are a few of the simple obversations.
There are many, many more, but since you are allergic to sums I dare not mention those!

All you have to do is to open your eyes, as people have been doing for a couple of thousand years.
Massively scraping the barrel with all of that.

It's funny how you have to use massive distance to play duping with a curve and yet when the clear physical evidence is there with what I said earlier to prove a level, you fail to address it.


Let me tell you about your rising and setting sun as you believe it to be due to your so called Earth rotation towards or away from that sun.

Now think very hard about this.
If you were on a ball and the Earth was rotating away from your sun, then you could claim that it was setting....but there's a massive massive massive problem with this and easily provable with a telescope set perfectly level.

You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.


Of course, we don't see this happen because we naturally still see the scope still perfectly level and pointing at the horizon line and yet here we are seeing the sun still disappearing from view.


So what in the hell can logic tell us what is really happening?
It clearly tells us that atmospheric horizontal mass is obscuring our view.....but how?

Again, if people use their logic, then can clearly see that the sun is moving away from their available view and in doing so is adding more horizontal atmospheric mass against your vision which starts to cut of more and more available light as it moves further away as your atmospheric horizontal mass keeps obscuring.


That's how it works folks, so don't be falling for the old sun sinking below a spinning globe and in fact people should clearly be able to see this.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2017, 02:25:45 AM »
You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.

Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2017, 03:41:06 AM »
<snip>
Now think very hard about this.
If you were on a ball and the Earth was rotating away from your sun, then you could claim that it was setting....but there's a massive massive massive problem with this and easily provable with a telescope set perfectly level.

You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.


Of course, we don't see this happen because we naturally still see the scope still perfectly level and pointing at the horizon line and yet here we are seeing the sun still disappearing from view.


So what in the hell can logic tell us what is really happening?
It clearly tells us that atmospheric horizontal mass is obscuring our view.....but how?

Again, if people use their logic, then can clearly see that the sun is moving away from their available view and in doing so is adding more horizontal atmospheric mass against your vision which starts to cut of more and more available light as it moves further away as your atmospheric horizontal mass keeps obscuring.


That's how it works folks, so don't be falling for the old sun sinking below a spinning globe and in fact people should clearly be able to see this.

So, are you saying that atmospheric refraction and distance account for what we see as a sunset? 

That is a bit farfetched for me.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82˘ to produce a penny, putting in your 2˘ if really worth 3.64˘.

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Crutchwater

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2017, 03:43:36 AM »
You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.

Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?

sceptilogic

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rabinoz

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2017, 04:26:24 AM »
I can't offer irrefutable proof as you flat earthers always claim, but I see plenty of evidence:

Go down to the beach and open your eyes!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
To me the sun sure seems to be going down behind something. And I, understandably, interpret that something as the curved ocean surface.
I don't have to invent all sorts of weird hypotheses to explain it away. The looks as though it sets behind the horizon and I believe that it really does.

Yet you flat earthers have to come up with all sorts of hypotheses involving perspective,  atmoplanic lensing, refraction  (grossly excessive and upside down, but so what), none of which really explain what we easily see.

I just believe what I see and don't try to "explain it away".
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
There are many, many more, but since you are allergic to sums I dare not mention those!

All you have to do is to open your eyes, as people have been doing for a couple of thousand years.
Massively scraping the barrel with all of that.

It's funny how you have to use massive distance to play duping with a curve and yet when the clear physical evidence is there with what I said earlier to prove a level, you fail to address it.
Learn to read and do not put words into my mouth that I did not say!
I said nothing about any "massive distance to play duping with a curve".
The horizon that I showed was only 2.6 km (verified) to about 6 km (estimated) away! "Massive distance" indeed.
Try your fairy tales on someone else!

Quote from: sceptimatic
Let me tell you about your rising and setting sun as you believe it to be due to your so called Earth rotation towards or away from that sun.

Now think very hard about this.
If you were on a ball and the Earth was rotating away from your sun, then you could claim that it was setting....but there's a massive massive massive problem with this and easily provable with a telescope set perfectly level.

You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.
Where did you telescope come from? I can see a sunrise or sunset with the unaided, if you need a massive telescope, that's your problem.

The horizon in those sunset photos is almost at eye-level, so the camera is not "angling up" - you do talk such rubbish.
It is only about 5 km away and an almost imperceptible angle (less than 0.05°) below eye level.
Your "Flat Earth Theory" claims that the horizon always rises to eye level and in fact, it appears to do that.

Quote from: sceptimatic
Of course, we don't see this happen because we naturally still see the scope still perfectly level and pointing at the horizon line and yet here we are seeing the sun still disappearing from view.
"Of course, we don't see this happen", because what you claim is total garbage!

Yes, the eye or the camera is "still perfectly level and pointing at the horizon line" simply because the horizon line is almost exactly horizontal as it should be on a Globe about 12,700 km in diameter!

Quote from: sceptimatic
So what in the hell can logic tell us what is really happening?
It clearly tells us that atmospheric horizontal mass is obscuring our view.....but how?
Your twisted logic might tell you that but that is just your trying to twist reality to fit your preconceived ideas,
Why then is the sun very obviously disappearing lower part first - you either have never seen a sunset or were blinded by you flat earth indoctrination not really to observe it!

Quote from: sceptimatic
Again, if people use their logic, then can clearly see that the sun is moving away from their available view and in doing so is adding more horizontal atmospheric mass against your vision which starts to cut of more and more available light as it moves further away as your atmospheric horizontal mass keeps obscuring.
No, people do not
"clearly see that the sun is moving away from their available view". The sun is quite obviously disappearing behind something.
Look again, this time with your blinkers off:Watch the sun set. When I see:

Sun near setting at Weipa
   

Sunset at Weipa
   

Sun almost gone

Besides, if the close flat earth sun were "going away" it would be getting smaller, and (when the glare is removed) it does not do that.
But look at what we observe with the real sun. It certainly appears to move across the sky without changing in size as in these photos taken from a video made by the Flat Earther, Matrix Decode with very good photos of the sun through a filter (an arc welder's glass) showing the sun at a number of times of day from 9:30 AM to 7:00 PM on 9/March/2016 in Malaga, Spain.

These screen shots from his video does an excellent job of proving that the sun size does not change!
         
       

Quote from: sceptimatic
That's how it works folks, so don't be falling for the old sun sinking below a spinning globe and in fact people should clearly be able to see this.
Open your eyes and see how the real earth actually works!

Your sunset explanations make no more sense than you ideas on velocity and acceleration.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2017, 04:32:42 AM »
You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.

Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?
Nope, I'm saying that a level scope would immediately see you lose your horizon line, because on a supposed spinning globe your horizon line cannot ever be level.

At a level on a globe you would have to look DOWN for your horizon, not level.
As we know, we see a level horizon and always at eye level no matter what.
This absolutely tells anyone that it absolutely cannot be a globe, spinning or not.

The telescope at a level would immediately start to lose you your horizon on a globe.
A level telescope over a flat ocean will always show an horizon line.


I'll make it even more clearer for you.

People say if you lay on a beach and watch the sun go down, then stand up or even go up a skyscraper and view it after it's disappeared from sea level view, it will reappear.
Another absolute proof of a flat Earth and absolute proof that it cannot be a rotating globe.


Why?

Think about the level telescope at sea level.
The sun disappears from view but the person at the top of the skyscraper with their level telescope would literally be looking into sky if a globe was a reality.


I'll show you why.



It doesn't matter whether it's not to scale, what matters is , if the Earth curves and is a spinning globe then you would absolutely never would be able to bring a sunset back into view by a gain in height, no matter what.


You can bring it back into view on a flat Earth if you go higher because you are looking through a little less mass of atmosphere, horizontally, which brings the sun light back into view.

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rabinoz

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2017, 04:48:03 AM »
You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.

Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?
Nope, I'm saying that a level scope would immediately see you lose your horizon line, because on a supposed spinning globe your horizon line cannot ever be level.

At a level on a globe you would have to look DOWN for your horizon, not level.
As we know, we see a level horizon and always at eye level no matter what.
This absolutely tells anyone that it absolutely cannot be a globe, spinning or not.
Wrong, a level scope would still be pointed almost directly at the horizon!

Try again! At low altitude the horizon is close enough to being on the horizontal from you.
As I said my earlier post, from 2 m the horizon is only about 5 km away and less than an imperceptible 0.05° below eye level.

So get your story straight and stop using totally unrealistic diagrams.

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sceptimatic

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2017, 05:03:20 AM »

Wrong, a level scope would still be pointed almost directly at the horizon!
On a globe you get no chance at all to get any horizon, in truth.
Only a flat Earth can create a level horizon.


Try again! At low altitude the horizon is close enough to being on the horizontal from you.
As I said my earlier post, from 2 m the horizon is only about 5 km away and less than an imperceptible 0.05° below eye level.

So get your story straight and stop using totally unrealistic diagrams.
It's not unrealistic. This is what would happen if your Earth was a spinning globe.
We know it doesn't happen like this.


The Earth is flat, or at least the oceans are and all waters.
Hang on for dear life all you want to Rab but you're only cheating yourself in your desperation to keep the globe alive.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2017, 05:34:55 AM »
You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.

Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?
Nope, I'm saying that a level scope would immediately see you lose your horizon line, because on a supposed spinning globe your horizon line cannot ever be level.

How is that different? From a beach, say, a telescope pointed at the horizon would be level, or close enough. If the telescope is fixed relative to the earth, why would the horizon move from view?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2017, 05:41:05 AM »
You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.

Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?
Nope, I'm saying that a level scope would immediately see you lose your horizon line, because on a supposed spinning globe your horizon line cannot ever be level.

How is that different? From a beach, say, a telescope pointed at the horizon would be level, or close enough. If the telescope is fixed relative to the earth, why would the horizon move from view?
Height.

You'd never have any horizon on your globe but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for sea level.

I can't allow it for any higher up with the level telescope because the horizon disappears and so would the setting sun which would never be able to be brought back into view.

Globe is stone dead.
A flat sea is the only reality that can show what we actually see because it's the only one that actually makes any logical sense.

A globe not only doesn't make any logical sense, it shouldn't ever be taught unless it's under the words "science fiction."

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2017, 06:32:51 AM »
Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?
Nope, I'm saying that a level scope would immediately see you lose your horizon line, because on a supposed spinning globe your horizon line cannot ever be level.

How is that different? From a beach, say, a telescope pointed at the horizon would be level, or close enough. If the telescope is fixed relative to the earth, why would the horizon move from view?
Height.

You'd never have any horizon on your globe but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for sea level.

I can't allow it for any higher up with the level telescope because the horizon disappears and so would the setting sun which would never be able to be brought back into view.

So let's say we're at the top of a skyscraper with a telescope and we set it to look at the horizon. Then the horizon would move from the telescope's view if the earth turned? Is that what you're saying?

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2017, 06:53:18 AM »
You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.

Are you claiming that if a telescope was fixed to look at the horizon, then if the earth was turning it would move the horizon out of view of the telescope?
Nope, I'm saying that a level scope would immediately see you lose your horizon line, because on a supposed spinning globe your horizon line cannot ever be level.

How is that different? From a beach, say, a telescope pointed at the horizon would be level, or close enough. If the telescope is fixed relative to the earth, why would the horizon move from view?
Height.

You'd never have any horizon on your globe but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for sea level.

I can't allow it for any higher up with the level telescope because the horizon disappears and so would the setting sun which would never be able to be brought back into view.

Globe is stone dead.
A flat sea is the only reality that can show what we actually see because it's the only one that actually makes any logical sense.

A globe not only doesn't make any logical sense, it shouldn't ever be taught unless it's under the words "science fiction."
I know this is going to be hard for you to grasp Scepti, due to your flat Earth indoctrination and all, but the horizon isn't actually exactly at level. It's nearly imperceptably below it. http://aty.sdsu.edu/explain/atmos_refr/dip.html The naked eye cannot tell the difference, but surveying equipment can. This means as you go up in height you are in fact looking just a little bit lower in order to see the horizon. Welcome to the dip angle, a well known and used phenomenon.

Although it is fascinating watching you claim something is impossible when you don't seem to understand the very basics of how it works, at least based upon your groundless claims, and strange statements.

?

Twerp

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2017, 07:07:09 AM »
<snip>
Now think very hard about this.
If you were on a ball and the Earth was rotating away from your sun, then you could claim that it was setting....but there's a massive massive massive problem with this and easily provable with a telescope set perfectly level.

You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.


Of course, we don't see this happen because we naturally still see the scope still perfectly level and pointing at the horizon line and yet here we are seeing the sun still disappearing from view.


So what in the hell can logic tell us what is really happening?
It clearly tells us that atmospheric horizontal mass is obscuring our view.....but how?

Again, if people use their logic, then can clearly see that the sun is moving away from their available view and in doing so is adding more horizontal atmospheric mass against your vision which starts to cut of more and more available light as it moves further away as your atmospheric horizontal mass keeps obscuring.


That's how it works folks, so don't be falling for the old sun sinking below a spinning globe and in fact people should clearly be able to see this.

So, are you saying that atmospheric refraction and distance account for what we see as a sunset? 

That is a bit farfetched for me.

Mike

Farfetched theories are fine as long as they don't include a globe shaped earth or gravitation.
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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markjo

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Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2017, 07:10:07 AM »
If the earth is really flat, then why does the globe model match real world observations so well?
It absolutely 100% simply doesn't.
Incorrect, the globe model absolutely 100% simply does match real world observations very well.

If you disagree, please present your evidence!
The globe model matches what you're told it matches and nothing more than that.

You are simply reliant on what you are schooled into and you have absolutely no physical proof to back any of it up.

Ahhh... the classic "indoctrination" deflection!

Do you not realize that this argument carries absolutely NO weight, whatsoever?
It carries the same weight as the stuff you people come out with, including this post of yours.

I hardly think you can refute the evidence for a globe Earth if you can’t even cope with the concept of constant acceleration........
Are you kidding?  Scepti can't even cope with the concept of an idealized, friction free environment.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2017, 08:39:01 AM »
<snip>
Now think very hard about this.
If you were on a ball and the Earth was rotating away from your sun, then you could claim that it was setting....but there's a massive massive massive problem with this and easily provable with a telescope set perfectly level.

You see, if you set your telescope perfectly level on the beach or wherever and watch the sun go down as your Earth is supposedly spinning away from that sun then so would your telescope.
You would immediately start to lose your horizon line and start to look into your space/sky because your telescope would be tilted back towards you with the eye piece angling down to the beach and the large scope angling up as the sun appears to fall below.


Of course, we don't see this happen because we naturally still see the scope still perfectly level and pointing at the horizon line and yet here we are seeing the sun still disappearing from view.


So what in the hell can logic tell us what is really happening?
It clearly tells us that atmospheric horizontal mass is obscuring our view.....but how?

Again, if people use their logic, then can clearly see that the sun is moving away from their available view and in doing so is adding more horizontal atmospheric mass against your vision which starts to cut of more and more available light as it moves further away as your atmospheric horizontal mass keeps obscuring.


That's how it works folks, so don't be falling for the old sun sinking below a spinning globe and in fact people should clearly be able to see this.

So, are you saying that atmospheric refraction and distance account for what we see as a sunset? 

That is a bit farfetched for me.

Mike

Farfetched theories are fine as long as they don't include a globe shaped earth or gravitation.
For me, what's farfetched it atmospheric refraction being the cause of what we observe and predict about the sun.  IMHO, it's impossible.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82˘ to produce a penny, putting in your 2˘ if really worth 3.64˘.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28451
Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2017, 08:48:18 AM »
So let's say we're at the top of a skyscraper with a telescope and we set it to look at the horizon. Then the horizon would move from the telescope's view if the earth turned? Is that what you're saying?

No.
I'll try again.



I'm being generous giving you the first horizon on your fictional globe but after that any attempt to argue a point for going higher to see a sunset again is well and truly wiped out.
It doesn't matter about the scale because if it's a curve then it's the same scenario where you simply cannot see over the curve whilst also turning away from the sun.


It's like someone stood at eye height with a football whilst you're stood upright looking direct at it and then with your eyes fixed you start to fall back in a stiff motion as if you were a solid stick. The football (sun) disappears and no amount of height gain at the falling angle is going to help you see the ball again.


Globe Earth game totally and absolutely over.



Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2017, 09:07:53 AM »
So let's say we're at the top of a skyscraper with a telescope and we set it to look at the horizon. Then the horizon would move from the telescope's view if the earth turned? Is that what you're saying?

No.
I'll try again.



I'm being generous giving you the first horizon on your fictional globe but after that any attempt to argue a point for going higher to see a sunset again is well and truly wiped out.
It doesn't matter about the scale because if it's a curve then it's the same scenario where you simply cannot see over the curve whilst also turning away from the sun.


It's like someone stood at eye height with a football whilst you're stood upright looking direct at it and then with your eyes fixed you start to fall back in a stiff motion as if you were a solid stick. The football (sun) disappears and no amount of height gain at the falling angle is going to help you see the ball again.


Globe Earth game totally and absolutely over.
But notice how when you stand up you can see more of the ball?
Try it.  Tape a small ball to your larger one.  Now, at eye level with the large ball, turn it until the small ball just disappears.
Now stand up and you can see it again.
Of course if you keep turning it the small ball will go out of view.  Just like the sun will eventually go out of view of the telescope.
But from a greater height you can see more of the ball.  Exactly like what happens on earth.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2017, 09:14:04 AM »
So let's say we're at the top of a skyscraper with a telescope and we set it to look at the horizon. Then the horizon would move from the telescope's view if the earth turned? Is that what you're saying?

No.
I'll try again.



I'm being generous giving you the first horizon on your fictional globe but after that any attempt to argue a point for going higher to see a sunset again is well and truly wiped out.
It doesn't matter about the scale because if it's a curve then it's the same scenario where you simply cannot see over the curve whilst also turning away from the sun.


It's like someone stood at eye height with a football whilst you're stood upright looking direct at it and then with your eyes fixed you start to fall back in a stiff motion as if you were a solid stick. The football (sun) disappears and no amount of height gain at the falling angle is going to help you see the ball again.


Globe Earth game totally and absolutely over.
Ah, I see. You don't understand that the green horizon point in your drawing will shift when you go up in height. This is pretty basic RE information, how do you not understand it? The horizon is in fact, not level/0 degrees. As I pointed out to you in the post you skipped. This is why the sun comes back when you stand up. You are in fact changing your angle to look 'down' more. How can you claim RE is incorrect when you don't seem to grasp basics like this?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28451
Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2017, 09:29:09 AM »
So let's say we're at the top of a skyscraper with a telescope and we set it to look at the horizon. Then the horizon would move from the telescope's view if the earth turned? Is that what you're saying?

No.
I'll try again.



I'm being generous giving you the first horizon on your fictional globe but after that any attempt to argue a point for going higher to see a sunset again is well and truly wiped out.
It doesn't matter about the scale because if it's a curve then it's the same scenario where you simply cannot see over the curve whilst also turning away from the sun.


It's like someone stood at eye height with a football whilst you're stood upright looking direct at it and then with your eyes fixed you start to fall back in a stiff motion as if you were a solid stick. The football (sun) disappears and no amount of height gain at the falling angle is going to help you see the ball again.


Globe Earth game totally and absolutely over.
But notice how when you stand up you can see more of the ball?
Try it.  Tape a small ball to your larger one.  Now, at eye level with the large ball, turn it until the small ball just disappears.
Now stand up and you can see it again.
Of course if you keep turning it the small ball will go out of view.  Just like the sun will eventually go out of view of the telescope.
But from a greater height you can see more of the ball.  Exactly like what happens on earth.
The diagram tells you different but you stick with the globe and you're welcome to it.
I know 100% that the Earth is not a globe and certainly not spinning, either.

I also know the waters are as flat as can be.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2017, 09:52:54 AM »
So let's say we're at the top of a skyscraper with a telescope and we set it to look at the horizon. Then the horizon would move from the telescope's view if the earth turned? Is that what you're saying?

No.
I'll try again.



I'm being generous giving you the first horizon on your fictional globe but after that any attempt to argue a point for going higher to see a sunset again is well and truly wiped out.
It doesn't matter about the scale because if it's a curve then it's the same scenario where you simply cannot see over the curve whilst also turning away from the sun.


It's like someone stood at eye height with a football whilst you're stood upright looking direct at it and then with your eyes fixed you start to fall back in a stiff motion as if you were a solid stick. The football (sun) disappears and no amount of height gain at the falling angle is going to help you see the ball again.


Globe Earth game totally and absolutely over.
But notice how when you stand up you can see more of the ball?
Try it.  Tape a small ball to your larger one.  Now, at eye level with the large ball, turn it until the small ball just disappears.
Now stand up and you can see it again.
Of course if you keep turning it the small ball will go out of view.  Just like the sun will eventually go out of view of the telescope.
But from a greater height you can see more of the ball.  Exactly like what happens on earth.
The diagram tells you different but you stick with the globe and you're welcome to it.
I know 100% that the Earth is not a globe and certainly not spinning, either.

I also know the waters are as flat as can be.
I'll try once again to point out that you are neglecting the dip angle to the horizon that changes as you go up. As such your diagram is correct, presuming the telescope is stationary. But if you go up in height, the horizon point will change, and the horizon line will drop. As shown here (angles and distances are exaggerated to help show the effect and NOT to scale):


As you can see here, the person higher up can indeed see not only further along the curve, but lower in relation to the horizon line of the person lower down. Thus when the lower sight line can no longer see the sun, the higher sight line still can.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2017, 09:53:08 AM »
So let's say we're at the top of a skyscraper with a telescope and we set it to look at the horizon. Then the horizon would move from the telescope's view if the earth turned? Is that what you're saying?

No.
I'll try again.



I'm being generous giving you the first horizon on your fictional globe but after that any attempt to argue a point for going higher to see a sunset again is well and truly wiped out.
It doesn't matter about the scale because if it's a curve then it's the same scenario where you simply cannot see over the curve whilst also turning away from the sun.


It's like someone stood at eye height with a football whilst you're stood upright looking direct at it and then with your eyes fixed you start to fall back in a stiff motion as if you were a solid stick. The football (sun) disappears and no amount of height gain at the falling angle is going to help you see the ball again.


Globe Earth game totally and absolutely over.
But notice how when you stand up you can see more of the ball?
Try it.  Tape a small ball to your larger one.  Now, at eye level with the large ball, turn it until the small ball just disappears.
Now stand up and you can see it again.
Of course if you keep turning it the small ball will go out of view.  Just like the sun will eventually go out of view of the telescope.
But from a greater height you can see more of the ball.  Exactly like what happens on earth.
The diagram tells you different but you stick with the globe and you're welcome to it.
I know 100% that the Earth is not a globe and certainly not spinning, either.

I also know the waters are as flat as can be.
Did you try it?  It works on the small model exactly as it does on the earth.  This is literally something you can test yourself.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28451
Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2017, 10:12:57 AM »

I'll try once again to point out that you are neglecting the dip angle to the horizon that changes as you go up. As such your diagram is correct, presuming the telescope is stationary. But if you go up in height, the horizon point will change, and the horizon line will drop. As shown here (angles and distances are exaggerated to help show the effect and NOT to scale):


As you can see here, the person higher up can indeed see not only further along the curve, but lower in relation to the horizon line of the person lower down. Thus when the lower sight line can no longer see the sun, the higher sight line still can.
That makes no rational sense when you think on it.
It's merely looking at the ground as if your eyes are looking down instead of forward.

What I'm saying is, if you have a level scope at the bottom and at the top and lose your sun at the bottom then someone at the top sees the sun again with their level scope, it kills the globe.
And that's exactly what happens.
There's no need to look down. It's all set up and level.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28451
Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2017, 10:15:35 AM »

Did you try it?  It works on the small model exactly as it does on the earth.  This is literally something you can test yourself.
I've tried many experiments on this and the globe absolutely does not work with it.
It really does not work.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2017, 10:19:19 AM »

I'll try once again to point out that you are neglecting the dip angle to the horizon that changes as you go up. As such your diagram is correct, presuming the telescope is stationary. But if you go up in height, the horizon point will change, and the horizon line will drop. As shown here (angles and distances are exaggerated to help show the effect and NOT to scale):


As you can see here, the person higher up can indeed see not only further along the curve, but lower in relation to the horizon line of the person lower down. Thus when the lower sight line can no longer see the sun, the higher sight line still can.
That makes no rational sense when you think on it.
It's merely looking at the ground as if your eyes are looking down instead of forward.

What I'm saying is, if you have a level scope at the bottom and at the top and lose your sun at the bottom then someone at the top sees the sun again with their level scope, it kills the globe.
And that's exactly what happens.
There's no need to look down. It's all set up and level.
Yes, and being level you will notice the dip angle to the horizon if you look for it with an instrument that supplies that amount of definition. The 'level scope' higher up might not even be able to see the horizon because of this in fact. The sun will not appear in the scope, but the scope will still be bathed in sunlight. This part of course depends upon the magnification of the scope in question.

For clarity:
IF two scopes are set up at different heights, and both can still see the horizon when looking through them
THEN the higher scope will see the sun after it has vanished from the lower scope, but at a lower angle.

IF two scopes are set up at different heights, but their field of vision is narrowed in the same manner such that the bottom just sees the horizon, and the upper one no longer can
THEN the sun will vanish at the same time.

In both of these scenarios the scopes can be 100% level with the ground. The dip angle will simply be greater for the higher scope, thus making the horizon lower than 0 degrees, and lower than the angle it's at for the lower scope.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 10:24:04 AM by Curious Squirrel »

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2017, 10:24:14 AM »

Did you try it?  It works on the small model exactly as it does on the earth.  This is literally something you can test yourself.
I've tried many experiments on this and the globe absolutely does not work with it.
It really does not work.
Have you ever looked at the west side of a tall building or a hill with an unobstructed view of the sunset?  The bottom is in shadow and the top isn't.  What more physical evidence would you need than that to demonstrate that the sight line to the horizon is different at different heights?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28451
Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2017, 10:25:57 AM »

I'll try once again to point out that you are neglecting the dip angle to the horizon that changes as you go up. As such your diagram is correct, presuming the telescope is stationary. But if you go up in height, the horizon point will change, and the horizon line will drop. As shown here (angles and distances are exaggerated to help show the effect and NOT to scale):


As you can see here, the person higher up can indeed see not only further along the curve, but lower in relation to the horizon line of the person lower down. Thus when the lower sight line can no longer see the sun, the higher sight line still can.
That makes no rational sense when you think on it.
It's merely looking at the ground as if your eyes are looking down instead of forward.

What I'm saying is, if you have a level scope at the bottom and at the top and lose your sun at the bottom then someone at the top sees the sun again with their level scope, it kills the globe.
And that's exactly what happens.
There's no need to look down. It's all set up and level.
Yes, and being level you will notice the dip angle to the horizon if you look for it with an instrument that supplies that amount of definition. The 'level scope' higher up might not even be able to see the horizon because of this in fact. The sun will not appear in the scope, but the scope will still be bathed in sunlight. This part of course depends upon the magnification of the scope in question.

For clarity:
IF two scopes are set up at different heights, and both can still see the horizon when looking through them
THEN the higher scope will see the sun after it has vanished from the lower scope, but at a lower angle.

IF two scopes are set up at different heights, but their field of vision is narrowed in the same manner such that the bottom just sees the horizon, and the upper one no longer can
THEN the sun will vanish at the same time.

In both of these scenarios the scopes can be 100% level with the ground. The dip angle will simply be greater for the higher scope, thus making the horizon lower than 0 degrees, and lower than the angle it's at for the lower scope.
There is no dip angle.

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2017, 10:26:50 AM »

Did you try it?  It works on the small model exactly as it does on the earth.  This is literally something you can test yourself.
I've tried many experiments on this and the globe absolutely does not work with it.
It really does not work.
Interesting.  I once lived next to a mountain.  At sunset I could watch the sun disappear behind the horizon.  Then I could turn around and see that the sun was still shining on the mountain.  I could watch the shadow line slowly move up the mountain.  If you were standing on the mountain you would still be seeing the sun.
This matches perfectly with a globe earth rotating and a large distant sun.
How does it match a flat earth?

Re: What is the best evidence for a globe shaped Earth?
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2017, 10:41:24 AM »

I'll try once again to point out that you are neglecting the dip angle to the horizon that changes as you go up. As such your diagram is correct, presuming the telescope is stationary. But if you go up in height, the horizon point will change, and the horizon line will drop. As shown here (angles and distances are exaggerated to help show the effect and NOT to scale):


As you can see here, the person higher up can indeed see not only further along the curve, but lower in relation to the horizon line of the person lower down. Thus when the lower sight line can no longer see the sun, the higher sight line still can.
That makes no rational sense when you think on it.
It's merely looking at the ground as if your eyes are looking down instead of forward.

What I'm saying is, if you have a level scope at the bottom and at the top and lose your sun at the bottom then someone at the top sees the sun again with their level scope, it kills the globe.
And that's exactly what happens.
There's no need to look down. It's all set up and level.
Yes, and being level you will notice the dip angle to the horizon if you look for it with an instrument that supplies that amount of definition. The 'level scope' higher up might not even be able to see the horizon because of this in fact. The sun will not appear in the scope, but the scope will still be bathed in sunlight. This part of course depends upon the magnification of the scope in question.

For clarity:
IF two scopes are set up at different heights, and both can still see the horizon when looking through them
THEN the higher scope will see the sun after it has vanished from the lower scope, but at a lower angle.

IF two scopes are set up at different heights, but their field of vision is narrowed in the same manner such that the bottom just sees the horizon, and the upper one no longer can
THEN the sun will vanish at the same time.

In both of these scenarios the scopes can be 100% level with the ground. The dip angle will simply be greater for the higher scope, thus making the horizon lower than 0 degrees, and lower than the angle it's at for the lower scope.
There is no dip angle.
Evidence? Seen it myself through a modern Theodelite.