Flight Sydney to Santiago

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on December 03, 2017, 03:01:47 PM

I post in these threads to make sure there are no misconceptions to newcomers.

The time that the flat Earth was the mainstream idea was before modern science existed, so your point is moot.

Sure, over 2500 years before "modern science existed".
But, in any case I don't recall mentioning modern science. Modern science has nothing to do with the case.

So when do you claim your so called modern science started?

Was it in the 13th century when Iohannes de Sacrobosco wrote his treatise "De Sphaera" on the spheres, the earth and the celestial?
He wrote

Quote

THE EARTH A SPHERE. -- That the earth, too, is round is shown thus. The signs and stars do not rise and set the same for all men everywhere but rise and set sooner for those in the east than for those in the west; and of this there is no other cause than the bulge of the earth. Moreover, celestial phenomena evidence that they rise sooner for Orientals than for westerners. For one and the same eclipse of the moon which appears to us in the first hour of the night appears to Orientals about the third hour of the night, which proves that they had night and sunset before we did, of which setting the bulge of the earth is the cause.

And evidence "That the earth also has a bulge from north to south" and "That the water has a bulge and is approximately round".
Such "modern science"!
"De Sphaera"  was regarded as one of the most definitive treatments of Ptolemaic cosmology. Iohannes de Sacrobosco most assuredly believed the earth to be a Globe and with very distant sun, moon and stars.

Or did your modern science start in the 7 th century AD? When there were astronomers like The Venerable Bede who categorically asserted that "truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe".

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Bede the Venerable
The monk Bede (c. 672–735) wrote in his influential treatise on computus, The Reckoning of Time, that the Earth was round. He explained the unequal length of daylight from "the roundness of the Earth, for not without reason is it called 'the orb of the world' on the pages of Holy Scripture and of ordinary literature. It is, in fact, set like a sphere in the middle of the whole universe." (De temporum ratione,). The large number of surviving manuscripts of The Reckoning of Time, copied to meet the Carolingian requirement that all priests should study the computus, indicates that many, if not most, priests were exposed to the idea of the sphericity of the Earth.
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Bede was lucid about earth's sphericity, writing "We call the earth a globe, not as if the shape of a sphere were expressed in the diversity of plains and mountains, but because, if all things are included in the outline, the earth's circumference will represent the figure of a perfect globe... For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe; in its width it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball, and it extends from its centre with perfect roundness on all sides."
From: Spherical Earth

I could go back to about 500 BC and find that the earth was even then thought to be a Globe.

Your flat earth is a comparatively modern invention, being quite unlike any early flat earth concepts, just read the history of the "armillary sphere" or the  "spherical astrolabe" and see what some of the earliest ideas on the heavens were.

So your claim that you

"post in these threads to make sure there are no misconceptions to newcomers"

seems a little misguided.

I'm entirely aware that the Earth being a sphere has been the mainstream belief since people have been capable of logical thought.

Everything you've just posted seems to contradict the fact that you said moments ago that there should be a map because the idea has existed for thousands of years.
By your own admission, people applying rational logical scientific thought to the concept has only been happening more recently.

So which is it?

According to gotham and many others the flat earth predates the Globe.
So are we expected to believe that it's been around for thousands of years, yet there are no accurate flat earth maps?

I said moments ago that there should be a map because flat earthers like gotham claim the idea has existed for thousands of years.

I made no claim that I believed such rubbish!

the flat earth believe by the ancient civilisations

Quote

I said moments ago that there should be a map because flat earthers like gotham claim the idea has existed for thousands of years.

I made no claim that I believed such rubbish!

Quote

the flat earth believed by the ancient civilisations

So again, then, which is it?

Quote from: Orlandu on December 03, 2017, 12:47:17 PM

Well if the flat earth is a thing that actually exists shouldn't someone be capable of producing a map of it? Shouldn't this in fact be a rather trivial process?

Do you often make maps in your spare time?

Quote from: Mike91 on December 03, 2017, 12:54:23 PM

Quote

This is just proving my point that you simply don't know how to read maps.

The longitudinal extent of Antarctica (as compared to the azimuthal equidistant projection) is the same as on a Mercator projection or any other map. It wouldn't work as a map if it wasn't. There is no flat Earth map.

"Appearing to be larger" means nothing unless you account for distortion.

If the map of the flat earth from the Boston Library, was created only on the basis of a distortion of the Mercator, and the distances do not match it, this does not prove that the earth can not be flat, this may mean we not have yet a correct map of the flat earth. So it is not possible to obtain the correct map of flat earth, only in that way.

I'm not sure what map you're referring to.

Strangely enough, I disagree with that. Those early Sumerians and Babylonians were certainly capable of logical thought and many modern ideas of astronomy and mathematics stem from them.

No one actually believes in flat earth. Plus, if the earth was flat the center of the earth would not have any nights.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on December 03, 2017, 01:18:57 PM

Quote from: Orlandu on December 03, 2017, 12:47:17 PM

Well if the flat earth is a thing that actually exists shouldn't someone be capable of producing a map of it? Shouldn't this in fact be a rather trivial process?

Do you often make maps in your spare time?

Quote from: Mike91 on December 03, 2017, 12:54:23 PM

Quote

This is just proving my point that you simply don't know how to read maps.

The longitudinal extent of Antarctica (as compared to the azimuthal equidistant projection) is the same as on a Mercator projection or any other map. It wouldn't work as a map if it wasn't. There is no flat Earth map.

"Appearing to be larger" means nothing unless you account for distortion.

If the map of the flat earth from the Boston Library, was created only on the basis of a distortion of the Mercator, and the distances do not match it, this does not prove that the earth can not be flat, this may mean we not have yet a correct map of the flat earth. So it is not possible to obtain the correct map of flat earth, only in that way.

I'm not sure what map you're referring to.

I am referring to this map:

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on December 03, 2017, 05:22:31 PM

I'm entirely aware that the Earth being a sphere has been the mainstream belief since people have been capable of logical thought.

Strangely enough, I disagree with that. Those early Sumerians and Babylonians were certainly capable of logical thought and many modern ideas of astronomy and mathematics stem from them.
What they lacked was widespread travel and modern measuring techniques.

But it seems to me that partly the internet and partly modern teaching methods have robbed many people of the capability of logical thought.
As a result some are turning to many illogical beliefs, the flat earth myth being just a fringe one.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0

Everything you've just posted seems to contradict the fact that you said moments ago that there should be a map because the idea has existed for thousands of years.
By your own admission, people applying rational logical scientific thought to the concept has only been happening more recently.

So which is it?

So among your other failings you have forgotten how to read!

I said moments ago that there should be a map because flat earthers like gotham claim the idea has existed for thousands of years.

I made no claim that I believed such rubbish!

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 02:18:09 PM

According to gotham and many others the flat earth predates the Globe.
So are we expected to believe that it's been around for thousands of years, yet there are no accurate flat earth maps?

And one of my main points is that the modern flat earth bears no relation to the flat earth believed by the ancient civilisations.
Their's fitted fairly well with their local observations, but the modern flat earth does not fit observations even from one locality.
So you have to plead ignorance to so many things that don't fit.

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 05:55:49 PM

Strangely enough, I disagree with that. Those early Sumerians and Babylonians were certainly capable of logical thought and many modern ideas of astronomy and mathematics stem from them.

And they would have found modern flat earth "models" laughable.  Like everyone else they had seen sunsets and sunrises and presumed the sun set and rose from below the disc.  I'm sure they would have found the suggestion that the sun just circles above the earth pretty silly, as it doesn't even fit the most basic of observations.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on December 04, 2017, 05:30:46 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 05:55:49 PM

Strangely enough, I disagree with that. Those early Sumerians and Babylonians were certainly capable of logical thought and many modern ideas of astronomy and mathematics stem from them.

And they would have found modern flat earth "models" laughable.  Like everyone else they had seen sunsets and sunrises and presumed the sun set and rose from below the disc.  I'm sure they would have found the suggestion that the sun just circles above the earth pretty silly, as it doesn't even fit the most basic of observations.

Actually, the fact the Sun is observed moving above the Earth every day for most people of the Earth and exactly matches the definition of the term, "most basic of observations." It takes a great deal of imagination and hocus pocus explanations/observations/theorizing/postulations/dead end reasoning to support RE-tards.

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 05:55:49 PM

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on December 03, 2017, 05:22:31 PM

I'm entirely aware that the Earth being a sphere has been the mainstream belief since people have been capable of logical thought.

Strangely enough, I disagree with that. Those early Sumerians and Babylonians were certainly capable of logical thought and many modern ideas of astronomy and mathematics stem from them.
What they lacked was widespread travel and modern measuring techniques.

But it seems to me that partly the internet and partly modern teaching methods have robbed many people of the capability of logical thought.
As a result some are turning to many illogical beliefs, the flat earth myth being just a fringe one.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0

Everything you've just posted seems to contradict the fact that you said moments ago that there should be a map because the idea has existed for thousands of years.
By your own admission, people applying rational logical scientific thought to the concept has only been happening more recently.

So which is it?

So among your other failings you have forgotten how to read!

I said moments ago that there should be a map because flat earthers like gotham claim the idea has existed for thousands of years.

I made no claim that I believed such rubbish!

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 02:18:09 PM

According to gotham and many others the flat earth predates the Globe.
So are we expected to believe that it's been around for thousands of years, yet there are no accurate flat earth maps?

And one of my main points is that the modern flat earth bears no relation to the flat earth believed by the ancient civilisations.
Their's fitted fairly well with their local observations, but the modern flat earth does not fit observations even from one locality.
So you have to plead ignorance to so many things that don't fit.

Horse hockey.

Every map made of the Earth is flat.

I do not know of any map that is not flat and every modern map I know of is accurate.

On the other hand, the most reliable producer of "globes," starts with a FLAT EARTH MAP DEPICTED ON FLAT PAPER (because that is the true reality), cuts the paper into oblong shapes, and carefully lays them out on the surface of the globe. The rest is filled in with coloring and the veracity/accuracy of spaces left in between at the tops and bottoms of the cut lay outs goes unchallenged because it is largely uninhabited.

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 05:55:49 PM

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And one of my main points is that the modern flat earth bears no relation to the flat earth believed by the ancient civilisations.
Their's fitted fairly well with their local observations, but the modern flat earth does not fit observations even from one locality.
So you have to plead ignorance to so many things that don't fit.

Horse hockey.

Every map made of the Earth is flat.

WYLD, James. [An English mid-Victorian table globe]
A Terrestrial Globe Compiled from the latest & Most Authentic Sources, Including all the recent Geographical Discoveries. London, c.1870. Printed globe, 12" diameter (305mm), on three-legged, wooden stand, brass meridian and horizon with engraved paper calendar and zodiac, total height 18" (460mm), A few small signs of wear.
A fine table globe, marking James Clark Ross's discoveries in Antarctica (1841), 'The United States of Colombia' (1861-88) and Alaska as part of the United States (1867). [Ref: 17297]    £7,000.00 including VAT ($9,415 • €7,952 rates)

I do not know of any map that is not flat and every modern map I know of is accurate.

On the other hand, the most reliable producer of "globes," starts with a FLAT EARTH MAP DEPICTED ON FLAT PAPER (because that is the true reality), cuts the paper into oblong shapes, and carefully lays them out on the surface of the globe. The rest is filled in with coloring and the veracity/accuracy of spaces left in between at the tops and bottoms of the cut lay outs goes unchallenged because it is largely uninhabited.

From: Paper Globes of Planets – Kağıttan Gezegen Küreleri

Lies and trues. Falses and truthes.

Quote from: brotherhood of the dome on December 04, 2017, 10:52:13 PM

Lies and trues. Falses and truthes.

All you are proving is your total ignorance of how intercontinental flights are tracked.

Look up ADS-B! You could start with Air Services, Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast.

Quote from: rabinoz on December 05, 2017, 01:06:17 AM

Quote from: brotherhood of the dome on December 04, 2017, 10:52:13 PM

Lies and trues. Falses and truthes.

All you are proving is your total ignorance of how intercontinental flights are tracked.

Look up ADS-B! You could start with Air Services, Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast.

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TWCobra is the pilot on this Flight QF28.

Quote from: TWCobra

A Flight over the Antarctic Sea Ice From Chile to Australia (QF28)

QF28, Route on Mercator's Projection

[Nov 18 2016] For anyone interested, in a couple of hours I'll be heading out of Santiago heading for Sydney on the QF28. The flight plan has us spending quite a bit of time at 71'30" South and the cloud forecast at the moment shows not a lot of cloud! Lucky I brought 2 GoPros with me!

Fingers crossed for a good time-lapse video of the ice pack!

The pic above shows the route. I've been meaning to post something explaining great circle routes and why they are faster. This map will help once I compare it to the Google Earth representation of the track.

In the meantime we will be taking off around 1700 GMT and landing about 14 hours later. Only around 5% of the flight will be visible on FR24 as there is just nobody to pick up our ADSB signals.

Main Flight plan has just arrived with 13:25 as the flight time which should have us in Sydney on schedule at 0645 UTC. Here is what the flight looks like in the Nav software.

QF28, Route on Polar Projection

[UPDATE: Nov 19, 2016]
Just got in. We had 30 minutes with an awesome view of the ice.
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Read the rest in: A Flight over the Antarctic Sea Ice From Chile to Australia (QF28)

You might also enjoy reading Flat Earth Theory Debunked by Short Flights (QF27 & QF28) From Australia to South America.

Quote from: totallackey on December 04, 2017, 05:53:24 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 05:55:49 PM

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And one of my main points is that the modern flat earth bears no relation to the flat earth believed by the ancient civilisations.
Their's fitted fairly well with their local observations, but the modern flat earth does not fit observations even from one locality.
So you have to plead ignorance to so many things that don't fit.

Horse hockey.

Every map made of the Earth is flat.

Incorrect! This one doesn't look flat.

Quote from: totallackey

I do not know of any map that is not flat and every modern map I know of is accurate.

No flat map can be precisely accurate over its full coverage for the simple reason that the earth is not flat.
If the earth were flat, flat maps could easily be made with equal accuracy over the whole map, it's simple!

Quote from: totallackey

On the other hand, the most reliable producer of "globes," starts with a FLAT EARTH MAP DEPICTED ON FLAT PAPER (because that is the true reality), cuts the paper into oblong shapes, and carefully lays them out on the surface of the globe. The rest is filled in with coloring and the veracity/accuracy of spaces left in between at the tops and bottoms of the cut lay outs goes unchallenged because it is largely uninhabited.

Yes, but the flat piece of paper used make good globes looks nothing like your

"FLAT EARTH MAP DEPICTED ON FLAT PAPER".

Since when has the official "FLAT EARTH MAP" looked like this?

From: Paper Globes of Planets – Kağıttan Gezegen Küreleri

You might note that there are NO "spaces left in between at the tops and bottoms of the cut lay outs".

May we call this the "Totallackey true Flat Earth Map"?

If you claim otherwise, without proof, you are lying.

Quote from: rabinoz on December 05, 2017, 12:39:02 AM

Quote from: totallackey on December 04, 2017, 05:53:24 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on December 03, 2017, 05:55:49 PM

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And one of my main points is that the modern flat earth bears no relation to the flat earth believed by the ancient civilisations.
Their's fitted fairly well with their local observations, but the modern flat earth does not fit observations even from one locality.
So you have to plead ignorance to so many things that don't fit.

Horse hockey.

Every map made of the Earth is flat.

Incorrect! This one doesn't look flat.

The reason it does not look flat you moran is because it is a fucking globe.

It is not a fucking map.[/url]
It's no less a map for being a globe.
Map: a diagrammatic representation of an area of land or sea showing physical features.

Quote from: totallackey on December 05, 2017, 04:35:10 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on December 05, 2017, 12:39:02 AM

Quote from: totallackey

I do not know of any map that is not flat and every modern map I know of is accurate.

No flat map can be precisely accurate over its full coverage for the simple reason that the earth is not flat.
If the earth were flat, flat maps could easily be made with equal accuracy over the whole map, it's simple!

And they are.

And you are incapable of demonstrating they are not.

Show me a flat map with zero distortions across it's entire surface. I'll wait.

Quote from: rabinoz on December 05, 2017, 02:51:56 AM

If you claim otherwise, without proof, you are lying.

All of us know that how you are a slaverer.

Calculating real size of Australia: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73069.0
Watch and learn you ignorant don't aware of the place you are living on!

Average flight time from
Calculating The true distance from Perth to Sydney= 805 kms/h x 3:55 = 3.158 kms.
Distance on the map (wrong distance from Perth to Sydney) = 3.290 kms.

Australia on Gleason's Map, E-W 8,700 km and N-S 3,200 km

Australia on Google Earth, E-W 3,700 km and N-S 3,200 km

The gaps only come into play when you RE-tards try to paste a perfectly fine flat map onto a fucking ball with no cause to do so...

The New Standard Flat Earth as approved by totallackey


From: Paper Globes of Planets – Kağıttan Gezegen Küreleri

And you continue to ignore distortion. It's not even a matter of the shape of the Earth, it's a matter of you not knowing how maps work.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on December 05, 2017, 02:42:48 PM

And you continue to ignore distortion. It's not even a matter of the shape of the Earth, it's a matter of you not knowing how maps work.

I know how maps work! But no flat-earthers seem to.
A flat map of a flat earth should be simply a scale drawing of the flat earth.

If you disagree, please explain.

Quote from: rabinoz on December 05, 2017, 02:46:17 PM

I know how maps work! But no flat-earthers seem to.
A flat map of a flat earth should be simply a scale drawing of the flat earth.

If you disagree, please explain.

I don't disagree, but you're reading those maps completely wrong and making yourself look silly. I'm just trying to help.

Quote from: th3rm0m3t3r0 on December 05, 2017, 02:49:23 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on December 05, 2017, 02:46:17 PM

I know how maps work! But no flat-earthers seem to.
A flat map of a flat earth should be simply a scale drawing of the flat earth.

If you disagree, please explain.

I don't disagree, but you're reading those maps completely wrong and making yourself look silly. I'm just trying to help.

Please explain, oh enlightened one.

But, remember a flat map of a flat earth need have no distortion.

Quote from: Orlandu on December 03, 2017, 12:47:17 PM

Well if the flat earth is a thing that actually exists shouldn't someone be capable of producing a map of it? Shouldn't this in fact be a rather trivial process?

I understand that they are working to getting this map. Maybe we'll see it in the near future. Who knows...

Can we abandon that line of thought for one moment? Like I said, it's not about the shape of the Earth. Those longitudinal lines wouldn't have to deviate as approaching the edge on any flat map.

Therein lies your problem. You seem to ignore those lines altogether. Because you ignore these lines, you try to do things like measure by using un-scaled straight lines, which makes you look silly.

Please stop doing that. You're essentially arguing against a round Earth model. Seems counterproductive when you consider your position on that matter, no?

Australia Dimensions - Ice Ring Map