Another mass shooting...

  • 2608 Replies
  • 298216 Views
*

Bullwinkle

  • The Elder Ones
  • 21053
  • Standard Idiot
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #750 on: March 15, 2018, 12:46:23 AM »
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.

I am disabled. I can't fight or run away.
I guess if a stern disapproving look doesn't work I'm fucked?

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.


*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #751 on: March 15, 2018, 01:10:53 AM »
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

Bullwinkle

  • The Elder Ones
  • 21053
  • Standard Idiot
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #752 on: March 15, 2018, 01:30:59 AM »

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #753 on: March 15, 2018, 01:39:57 AM »
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.


Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #754 on: March 15, 2018, 01:45:29 AM »
Guess what, people, including children, are at grocery stores and parks and malls with people who have properly concealed firearms everyday.  What is so special about a school that makes children incapable of being around adults who are properly concealing firearms?

Oh, and guess where adults who are otherwise legally allowed to carry a firearm are actually not allowed to carry a firearm?  Prisons. So, schools are actually more like prisons right now than they would be if the teachers were armed...

Thank you for that post. It perfectly represents what's wrong with the american mentality.

Pretty fucked up.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

disputeone

  • 25006
  • Or should I?
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #755 on: March 15, 2018, 01:47:36 AM »
Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?

No, they are very clear on not being able to defend yourself or your property here.

Only the all powerful state may defend people and property.

*

Wolvaccine

  • EXTRA SPICY MODE
  • 25833
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #756 on: March 15, 2018, 01:53:06 AM »
I have never even seen a gun (apart from on police) or ever touched one. Totally happy. Happy that no one else I have ever encountered has had one either.

So, what do you people do when someone kicks in the front door and starts ransacking your heirlooms?  Make sandwiches and help them load their lorry? 

Does your government allow you to defend yourself and your property?
If so, how?

If someone came in my house and making them a sandwich and load their lorry is the only thing that would keep me alive, I'd do it. But in seriousness, I have plenty of sharp 'ornaments' and and am trained (for whatever that would be worth in the heat of the moment) in how to defend myself

Sure, a gun would be sweet, I could blow them away, but giving law abiding people like me a gun would also allow criminals to have a gun. It doesn't make me safer, it just levels the odds in a far more dangerous way that will likely result in someone being killed. If they want to 'get at me' they are going to need far more courage than shooting me in my sleep.

The government allows me to defend my house, property or loved ones using reasonable force. If they happen to die, so be it. Whatever it takes to neutralise the threat is what it takes.


Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

Would you agree allowing almost anyone to purchase semi automatic military grade weapons in the first place is part of the problem?

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

Bullwinkle

  • The Elder Ones
  • 21053
  • Standard Idiot
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #757 on: March 15, 2018, 02:02:24 AM »
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

*

Rayzor

  • 12111
  • Looking for Occam
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #758 on: March 15, 2018, 02:32:50 AM »
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

Bullwinkle

  • The Elder Ones
  • 21053
  • Standard Idiot
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #759 on: March 15, 2018, 02:51:35 AM »
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   


You could 'alter his thought process' if you're a really good shot.   :o

*

Rayzor

  • 12111
  • Looking for Occam
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #760 on: March 15, 2018, 03:01:58 AM »
Would you agree that it takes a person with a gun to neutralize a shooter?

I think 'neutralize' is an aggressive word. How about 'calm' a shooter?

Pop a cap in his ass?   


You could 'alter his thought process' if you're a really good shot.   :o

I shot a 9mm Glock a few weeks back,  piece of crap, I couldn't hit a door at 25 yards,   A S&W 357 Magnum revolver, I could hit the door knob.   But if it comes to intruders,  a cricket bat works well.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

deadsirius

  • 899
  • Crime Machine
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #761 on: March 15, 2018, 06:30:37 AM »

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.


So hard to understand why so many people don't get this.

I saw it phrased somewhere earlier pretty well:  this is probably the only time we've had youth marching in the streets demanding to have their rights taken away.  It's scary.
Suffering from a martyr complex...so you don't have to

Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #762 on: March 15, 2018, 07:40:42 AM »
I think the right to be shot at school is overrated.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #763 on: March 15, 2018, 07:50:39 AM »
It's an inalienable right. 

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5479
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #764 on: March 15, 2018, 08:15:15 AM »
Since Parkland we have had one teacher leave a pistol where students could get to it, I believe a student actually found it in the empty classroom and turned it in, another lock himself in his class and threaten harm with a gun if anyone tried to come in, and now a teacher discharging a gun accidentally while in class.

Those are the reasons I don't like the idea of arming teachers.  I'd rather see a ban on civilian versions of military rifles, raising the buying age to 21, stricter background checks, universal background checks, and law enforcement ability to open competency investigations on those who are suspected of causing harm in the future (through reporting, self proclamation, etc.)
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

Pezevenk

  • 15363
  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #765 on: March 15, 2018, 08:19:48 AM »

My government dose not allow me to defend myself.
My government is forbidden to interfere with my natural human right
to protect my life, property and liberty.


So hard to understand why so many people don't get this.

I saw it phrased somewhere earlier pretty well:  this is probably the only time we've had youth marching in the streets demanding to have their rights taken away.  It's scary.
Do you know how many "rights" you've given up in order to live inside a society? People decide some rights are worth giving up to protect others and thus laws are made. No one wants to interfere with your right to defend yourself. The issue is with guns. The only explanation I have for the American fixation on guns is the NRA brainwashing you people. What's scary is that people think the right to own guns is so important you can put it above the right to life.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

*

Crouton

  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crimes and Misdemeanors
  • Planar Moderator
  • 16498
  • Djinn
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #766 on: March 15, 2018, 09:29:46 AM »
Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?

Some ideas. 

The easy one, copy whatever every developed nation is doing where they get much better results than we do.  That might be untenable since our Constitution guarantees it as a right and not a privilege.

The more difficult ones;
Universal background checks.
In addition to domestic violence there's a number of other crimes that are strong predictors of violent behavior, like excessive cruelty to animals.  Make those convicted of these crimes ineligible to buy a firearm.
Raise the age to buy any firearm to 21.
Ban assault style weapons like the AR-15(I don't know if that would help).
3 day waiting periods for any gun(I also don't know how much that helps).
Fund the CDC to study gun violence.
These school shooters tend to visit websites where they idolize other school shooters.  Get the FBI to monitor those sites.
Make it mandatory to secure your guns with a lock(this might already be a law).
Put a tax on guns and use it to fund ad campaigns for basic gun safety.
Modify future designs of schools in such a way that makes mass shootings more difficult.

I really don't think arming teachers is a good ideas just because teaching is its own profession and being a SWAT officer is its own profession and there's so little overlap between the two that I don't there'd be enough of them to do any good.  It's a policy that's more likely to increase the incidents of careless idiots leaving guns in their desks.
 A lot of the talk I'm hearing out of the powers that be seem to be focusing on just school shootings.  It's like they forgot about the Vegas massacre and that Texas church massacre.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

?

Twerp

  • Gutter Sniper
  • Flat Earth Almost Believer
  • 6540
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #767 on: March 15, 2018, 09:42:07 AM »
Get Americans to lose their " shoot first, shoot later, shoot some more, and then when everybody's dead start asking questions" mentality.

Seriously, things don't have to escalate to a gunfight right away.
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #768 on: March 15, 2018, 10:19:36 AM »
Offering a solution to a problem takes effort.
What is your plan?

Some ideas. 

...

I remember a previous discussion where several people mentioned being Hardcore History (Dan Carlin) fans, so I'm going to draw from something he said in one of his episodes on the Mongols. An obvious goal of medieval warfare was to surround your enemy. Sometimes this results in surrender, but sometimes this results in the enemy digging in and fighting to the last man. Not fun. A common tactic that the Mongols liked to use was to intentionally create a small opening for the enemy to escape through. This resulted in a disjointed retreat that was easier to deal with than a dug-in enemy. They essentially created a pressure release valve.

It strikes me that these shooters often see themselves as the enemy of society. Surrounded by a society that they hate and that hates them. The pressure builds up and up and up until there is an explosive pressure release in the form of a mass shooting. Most solutions given tend to revolve around plugging that specific release vector. This is obviously important, but the pressure will still be there, and will find a different outlet eventually.

I think the ultimate solution involves building an easier-to-handle pressure release into society that triggers before something drastic happens. Or finding ways to prevent the build up completely. This requires actual research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996)

I know this was super vague and mostly useless. This isn't really an area of knowledge/interest for me. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter.

*

Pezevenk

  • 15363
  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #769 on: March 15, 2018, 12:08:23 PM »
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #770 on: March 15, 2018, 12:29:38 PM »
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Seriously, I don't understand how some people cannot see this. It's so obvious; people tick out every once in a while. And if they have a gun at hand ... umm could end badly!
The husband of an aunt of mine had a severe depression/burnout. After treatement, he said that if he had a gun with ammo at home, he would have shot himself when he was at his worst mental state (obviously not the same as shooting others, but you get the point).

Anyway, if I have kids one day, I 100% certainly will not let them attend a school with armed teachers and armed personnel.


About the 'but I'ma need a gun for protheectinn mah hoome!':
I bet the risk that you shoot someone you actually know (or an unarmed person in general) unintentionally is way higher than you actually stopping a armed robber in your home... Also, you having a gun in your hand makes the risk of you getting shot waaay higher if the robber spots you first.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 01:27:17 PM by User324 »
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

Wolvaccine

  • EXTRA SPICY MODE
  • 25833
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #771 on: March 15, 2018, 01:21:01 PM »
On the subject of arming students, there's another issue with this. There have been instances of teachers flipping out and opening fire at students in the past (don't know if it has happened in America though), makes me worried we'd start seeing incidents like that.
Seriously, I don't understand how some people cannot see this. It's so obvious; people tick out every once in a while. And if they have a gun at hand ... umm could end badly!
The husband of an aunt of mine had a severe depression/burnout. After treatement, he said that if he had a gun with ammo at home, he would have shot himself when he was at his worst mental state (obviously not the same as shooting others, but you get the point).

Anyway, if I have kids one they, I 100% certainly will not let them attend a school with armed teachers and armed personel.


About the 'but I'ma need a gun for protheectinn mah hoome!':
I bet the risk that you shoot someone you actually know (or an unarmed person in general) unintentionally is way higher than you actually stopping a armed robber in your home... Also, you having a gun in your hand makes the risk of you getting shot waaay higher if the robber spots you first.

Agree with da Swede. :o How many times has someone ended up shooting their own partner when they come home in the middle of the night because they were 'spooked' while in a half awake/asleep state. Or how many times has a kid found it and played with it resulting in killing them selves or their siblings

The idea of defending yourself at home but the law requires you to have you gun locked in a safe is kind of ridiculous. No one is going to do that. So a robber comes in and you have to say 'hold up! I just need to get my gun out of the safe!'. Not going to happen. Probably have it fully loaded on a bedside table.

I'm not sure how you can say on one hand you are the land of the free, but on the other hand have to sleep with a loaded gun each night for protection.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

?

Twerp

  • Gutter Sniper
  • Flat Earth Almost Believer
  • 6540
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #772 on: March 15, 2018, 01:40:03 PM »
I'm not sure how you can say on one hand you are the land of the free, but on the other hand have to sleep with a loaded gun each night for protection.

Good one! lol
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

*

deadsirius

  • 899
  • Crime Machine
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #773 on: March 15, 2018, 01:48:58 PM »
One great thing about America is everyone is also free to not have guns.

Personally I'd shoot anyone who tried to force me to have a gun
Suffering from a martyr complex...so you don't have to

*

Rayzor

  • 12111
  • Looking for Occam
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #774 on: March 15, 2018, 06:34:30 PM »
One great thing about America is everyone is also free to not have guns.

Personally I'd shoot anyone who tried to force me to have a gun

LOL. 

The inverse question is the more important,  what happens when a law is passed requiring everyone to hand in their assault rifles?

Do they start shooting?   

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

disputeone

  • 25006
  • Or should I?
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #775 on: March 16, 2018, 12:13:23 AM »
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.

*

Pezevenk

  • 15363
  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #776 on: March 16, 2018, 04:11:56 AM »
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
So you'd start shooting people because your grandpa liked guns? Um, I'm not sure I follow...
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #777 on: March 16, 2018, 11:15:23 AM »
I think a few people would.

I mean I would, my grandfather never handed in his guns, he had a semi auto 243 and 22 with a few pistols.

It's a slippery slope giving up freedoms.
So you'd start shooting people because your grandpa liked guns? Um, I'm not sure I follow...
It's 4chan logic.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

disputeone

  • 25006
  • Or should I?
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #778 on: March 16, 2018, 09:56:51 PM »
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.

*

Pezevenk

  • 15363
  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #779 on: March 17, 2018, 05:13:56 AM »
I'd shoot people who tried to take my property without my consent, yes.

That's a big part of American culture. Being able to defend yourself, your family and your possessions.

The story about my grandfather is relevant because he was alive during our gun confiscation and disarmament of the civilian population.
Do you shoot people every time a law you don't like is passed? And I get wanting to defend your family and yourself etc., but your guns? You'd shoot someone because he wants to take your gun? Would you shoot someone for trying to get your fridge or something? Oh wait, bad example, fridges are much more useful and vital than assault rifles.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)