Another mass shooting...

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Crouton

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1530 on: September 08, 2019, 02:50:28 PM »
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!
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Bullwinkle

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1531 on: September 08, 2019, 03:14:51 PM »
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

Was she told to not come home early?
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1532 on: September 09, 2019, 03:57:03 PM »
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!

It wasn't that simple (I was just listening to them talk about it on the radio while coming home). She is a single mom that lives alone, she did not expect her daughter, it was at night, she was in bed, the daughter was sneaking around the house (I am sure with good intentions to surprise her mom) in the dark.

I mean it sucks, I am sure the mom feels terrible, but it was a bad move. I wouldn't be mad if I did that to even my best friend.

Also, the DA is announced it is not pressing charges after looking at the evidence.

One thing for sure, the daughter will definitely ring the doorbell next time lol. Thankfully it was just a flesh wound.
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II
but no, instead, here comes the amalgamation of Ned Flanders, Bono, Ross Geller, Tim Henman, John Snow and fucking Rick Grimesís fucking one eyed son.

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Crouton

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1533 on: September 09, 2019, 04:13:40 PM »
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!

It wasn't that simple (I was just listening to them talk about it on the radio while coming home). She is a single mom that lives alone, she did not expect her daughter, it was at night, she was in bed, the daughter was sneaking around the house (I am sure with good intentions to surprise her mom) in the dark.

I mean it sucks, I am sure the mom feels terrible, but it was a bad move. I wouldn't be mad if I did that to even my best friend.

Also, the DA is announced it is not pressing charges after looking at the evidence.

One thing for sure, the daughter will definitely ring the doorbell next time lol. Thankfully it was just a flesh wound.

I figured.  I was just making a dark joke.

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.
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Shifter

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1534 on: September 09, 2019, 04:26:59 PM »
a girl came home from college early, the mum shot her.

It's called a Texas Hello.

Respect our culture!!!

It wasn't that simple (I was just listening to them talk about it on the radio while coming home). She is a single mom that lives alone, she did not expect her daughter, it was at night, she was in bed, the daughter was sneaking around the house (I am sure with good intentions to surprise her mom) in the dark.

I mean it sucks, I am sure the mom feels terrible, but it was a bad move. I wouldn't be mad if I did that to even my best friend.

Also, the DA is announced it is not pressing charges after looking at the evidence.

One thing for sure, the daughter will definitely ring the doorbell next time lol. Thankfully it was just a flesh wound.

I figured.  I was just making a dark joke.

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

From the NRA's own web page (and I imagine what gets hammered into anyone training on the use of a gun)

Quote
Know your target and what is beyond.

Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

This woman gets no sympathy from me and she should be charged. She picked up the gun, fired on someone without verifying who/what it was. In that moment, she decided whoever it was, was to be given a death penalty. She (and her daughter) is just lucky she cant aim for shit.

Could have fired in the ceiling to scare off/let potential attacker know shes awake and armed and not kidding. She chose to aim it at the person instead. Is she judge, jury and executioner?


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Bullwinkle

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1535 on: September 09, 2019, 04:37:48 PM »

Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Crouton

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1536 on: September 09, 2019, 04:38:23 PM »


From the NRA's own web page (and I imagine what gets hammered into anyone training on the use of a gun)

Quote
Know your target and what is beyond.

Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.


The thing is that in a life or death situation I don't know how good my judgement is going to be.  I could be totally cool.  But I'm worried I could just unload on someone innocent. 
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1537 on: September 09, 2019, 04:45:28 PM »
Shifter

Have you ever had to deal with a situation of an intruder at night? I am suspecting you have not. I have, multiple times actually (at a shit house I first lived in when I was broke as a joke, I have spoke about this some time ago) and it isn't something you can quarter back from a chair. You have split moments to make a decision...you or them. Do they have a gun? Knife? Are they crazy?

Yes, I didn't shoot anyone any of the times (one time was just a guy fucked off on drugs confused, though there was two times they wanted to do real harm), though I had my gun drawn at every time. However, I have extensive firearm training (even multiple times in the armed break in/active shooter some with air guns), very solid under pressure from when I worked offshore younger so I never panicked and I am a 6'4 male.

However, this instance it was a single woman living alone at night expecting no one to be in her house, also with little to no firearm training. It's not like her daughter lived with her and just came home before curfew...she didn't even live there, so why expect someone.

I have to say in my opinion you are wrong on this one shifter.



Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

You need a gun
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II
but no, instead, here comes the amalgamation of Ned Flanders, Bono, Ross Geller, Tim Henman, John Snow and fucking Rick Grimesís fucking one eyed son.

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Shifter

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1538 on: September 09, 2019, 04:55:50 PM »
Shifter

Have you ever had to deal with a situation of an intruder at night? I am suspecting you have not. I have, multiple times actually (at a shit house I first lived in when I was broke as a joke, I have spoke about this some time ago) and it isn't something you can quarter back from a chair. You have split moments to make a decision...you or them. Do they have a gun? Knife? Are they crazy?

Yes, I didn't shoot anyone any of the times (one time was just a guy fucked off on drugs confused, though there was two times they wanted to do real harm), though I had my gun drawn at every time. However, I have extensive firearm training (even multiple times in the armed break in/active shooter some with air guns), very solid under pressure from when I worked offshore younger so I never panicked and I am a 6'4 male.

However, this instance it was a single woman living alone at night expecting no one to be in her house, also with little to no firearm training. It's not like her daughter lived with her and just came home before curfew...she didn't even live there, so why expect someone.

I have to say in my opinion you are wrong on this one shifter.



Things like this are why if I thought someone was breaking into my house then I'd reach for a baseball bat instead of a gun.  But a single mom that lives alone, I totally understand the gun.

How about a 58 year old disabled man?
Do I have to do battle one on one with an attacker?

I can't run away. I can't swing a bat.

Do I get an exemption too?

You need a gun

I do have an Australian bias where the threat of home invasions especially those with gun crime is near nil. When I speak, it is ultimately from a place like that. I just find it so tragic when people known and loved by someone are killed by accident because they got spooked. Like a wife coming home late at night (expected) and the man in a half sleep/awake state sees a silhouette of a person and unloads

https://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-man-shoots-wife-mistaking-intruder-sheriff/story?id=64317617

You buy a gun because you a told it can protect you and your family. In so many cases, the guns end up doing the opposite.

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway. You dont take a knife to a gun fight.... What good is a gun in a drone fight?

I'm happy to be considered wrong and I fully understand the mindset of someone living in America is different to that of living in Australia.


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Bullwinkle

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1539 on: September 09, 2019, 05:12:16 PM »

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.




RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Shifter

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1540 on: September 09, 2019, 05:15:21 PM »

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

What about martial law, curfews? What if your government one day decides to go full retard like China and start banning people from congregating in the streets or protesting? It would never be overnight but I think there is a trend in that peoples freedoms and privacy are being slowly eroded as it is.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1541 on: September 09, 2019, 05:22:40 PM »

I do have an Australian bias where the threat of home invasions especially those with gun crime is near nil. When I speak, it is ultimately from a place like that. I just find it so tragic when people known and loved by someone are killed by accident because they got spooked. Like a wife coming home late at night (expected) and the man in a half sleep/awake state sees a silhouette of a person and unloads

https://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-man-shoots-wife-mistaking-intruder-sheriff/story?id=64317617

You buy a gun because you a told it can protect you and your family. In so many cases, the guns end up doing the opposite.

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway. You dont take a knife to a gun fight.... What good is a gun in a drone fight?

I'm happy to be considered wrong and I fully understand the mindset of someone living in America is different to that of living in Australia.

I agree about the difference in America vs Australia. If I lived there I would feel comfortable with just a quality knife and bat by my bed.

One of my points to my last post is we are both men and both have some amount of alpha mentality (and much stronger than women) so we would be more prone and less scared to take a fight hand to hand. A woman alone at night, when high 90 percent chance if they have an intruder it would be a male much stronger than them. Plus you have to add the sexual assault factor.

Though, I absolutely hate it when people get a gun and don't take it seriously. You should get extensive and continued training when you decide to take the responsibility of a gun. A man or women with no training does not protect their family, they put them at a liability and danger.

Also, as far as being groggy from sleep, I agree with that. That is why in that crap house I was taking about (which is also when I got my CHL and started taking the sim classes) I reinforced the outside doors so they couldn't be kicked in (at least with less than 20 kicks) and took other security measures. One of my biggest fears was having someone sneak in when I was sound asleep or break in and be at my bed in a few seconds before I could wake and arm myself. This was all training in those sim courses. If someone broke in, and I was in a deep sleep, they wouldn't be in before I was awake and armed.

Training is also how I was able to have people at gun point under control, waiting for the police without having to actually shoot them. Though don't get me wrong, if they got out of hand I would shoot a critical shot and not think twice about it, I was protecting not just myself but my family. Fortunately it didn't get that far.

I have also said many times, protection against tyranny is the dumbest shit now. It was definitely a thing when the military and populous used the same weapons. Now though, entire cities can be destroyed with one guy in a room 2000 miles away. How do civilians fight that with a pistol or rifle?


So in short...in America, I 100 percent agree with people having a gun with extensive training and being mentally capable of handling the pressure. If that is a no for both, don't give them one. I also support more tests for mental fortitude




The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II
but no, instead, here comes the amalgamation of Ned Flanders, Bono, Ross Geller, Tim Henman, John Snow and fucking Rick Grimesís fucking one eyed son.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1542 on: September 09, 2019, 05:31:04 PM »

What about martial law, curfews?

Those are local events, not national.
They are invoked for a specific reason and voluntarily complied with.

Federal authority has only been used against States.
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1543 on: September 09, 2019, 05:40:38 PM »

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.

Soldiers pledge to protect the constitution, not the government.

And, now you are going all D1 on us . . .
What tests show only a small minority of soldiers
would kill civilians of their own country if ordered?

Make ME look stupid, show us the tests.
RE can never win this argument.
FE can't be disproved.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1544 on: September 09, 2019, 05:51:58 PM »

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.

Soldiers pledge to protect the constitution, not the government.

And, now you are going all D1 on us . . .
What tests show only a small minority of soldiers
would kill civilians of their own country if ordered?

Make ME look stupid, show us the tests.

What? that is nothing new? The majority of soldiers would not fire upon their own civilians. There have been many studies private and within the government, they are questions mixed with other questions. No conspiracy, just simple questions.

If the government wanted to use the military against it's civilians it wouldn't be that hard. From wiggling around the Constitution, to declaring state of emergency to deputizing the military plus many other ways.

Doubt that would ever happen though, I think the government would be on the losing end if they tried that.

So I see you are going to go back to being a dick towards me now. I have done nothing to you. However, I always expect your mood changes, lashing out and stopped trusting you after the second time. Have fun using people as punching bags if they stick around
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II
but no, instead, here comes the amalgamation of Ned Flanders, Bono, Ross Geller, Tim Henman, John Snow and fucking Rick Grimesís fucking one eyed son.

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Shifter

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1545 on: September 09, 2019, 05:59:26 PM »

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.

Oh they can 100 percent, it would just be an unprecedented act. I am sure that is why there are a certain amount of NATO troops at each military base sense tests show only a small minority of soldiers would kill civilians of their own country if ordered.

Soldiers pledge to protect the constitution, not the government.

And, now you are going all D1 on us . . .
What tests show only a small minority of soldiers
would kill civilians of their own country if ordered?

Make ME look stupid, show us the tests.

What? that is nothing new? The majority of soldiers would not fire upon their own civilians. There have been many studies private and within the government, they are questions mixed with other questions. No conspiracy, just simple questions.

If the government wanted to use the military against it's civilians it wouldn't be that hard. From wiggling around the Constitution, to declaring state of emergency to deputizing the military plus many other ways.

Doubt that would ever happen though, I think the government would be on the losing end if they tried that.

So I see you are going to go back to being a dick towards me now. I have done nothing to you. However, I always expect your mood changes, lashing out and stopped trusting you after the second time. Have fun using people as punching bags if they stick around

How plausible was that movie 'Outbreak'? Where an Ebola like virus has gotten hold of a town and mutated to be airborne and the military wants to 'contain' the virus by dropping a bomb on the town

Surely no one wants to drop a bomb on their own countrymen but what if they were told it would ultimately save the whole country?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1546 on: September 09, 2019, 05:59:46 PM »
I do not know about any tests, but I know there are plenty of soldiers who would turn on citizens if they were ordered to. They're just normal humans. Some of them are great people, some of them are assholes, and all types in between.

Don't forget that there are others like Timothy McVeigh in the military.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1547 on: September 09, 2019, 06:09:17 PM »
I do not know about any tests, but I know there are plenty of soldiers who would turn on citizens if they were ordered to. They're just normal humans. Some of them are great people, some of them are assholes, and all types in between.

Don't forget that there are others like Timothy McVeigh in the military.

I am sure the assholes are the ones that checked yes.

From what I remember the average was like 33 percent said they would if ordered. In real life I think it could be higher or lower depending on how vocal people were within the ranks.

If the general consensus would turn to "It's honorable to stand with the people" then the number would probably be in the teens I think.

Though if it turned out the general consensus was "the people are wrong, the government is right", then I would bet on a 50-70 percent turning on their people.


How plausible was that movie 'Outbreak'? Where an Ebola like virus has gotten hold of a town and mutated to be airborne and the military wants to 'contain' the virus by dropping a bomb on the town

Surely no one wants to drop a bomb on their own countrymen but what if they were told it would ultimately save the whole country?

Definitely plausible in that situation. When you bring in security and fear of death...many people will do crazy things.

Hell, America has murdered millions of people in the middle East on that premise.

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would be the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II
but no, instead, here comes the amalgamation of Ned Flanders, Bono, Ross Geller, Tim Henman, John Snow and fucking Rick Grimesís fucking one eyed son.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1548 on: September 09, 2019, 06:10:08 PM »
I do not know about any tests, but I know there are plenty of soldiers who would turn on citizens if they were ordered to. They're just normal humans. Some of them are great people, some of them are assholes, and all types in between.

Don't forget that there are others like Timothy McVeigh in the military.

I am sure the assholes are the ones that checked yes.

From what I remember the average was like 33 percent said they would if ordered. In real life I think it could be higher or lower depending on how vocal people were within the ranks.

If the general consensus would turn to "It's honorable to stand with the people" then the number would probably be in the teens I think.

Though if it turned out the general consensus was "the people are wrong, the government is right", then I would bet on a 50-70 percent turning on their people.


How plausible was that movie 'Outbreak'? Where an Ebola like virus has gotten hold of a town and mutated to be airborne and the military wants to 'contain' the virus by dropping a bomb on the town

Surely no one wants to drop a bomb on their own countrymen but what if they were told it would ultimately save the whole country?

Definitely plausible in that situation. When you bring in security and fear of death...many people will do crazy things.

Hell, America has murdered millions of people in the middle East on that premise.

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would bet the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II
but no, instead, here comes the amalgamation of Ned Flanders, Bono, Ross Geller, Tim Henman, John Snow and fucking Rick Grimesís fucking one eyed son.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1549 on: September 09, 2019, 06:13:01 PM »

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would be the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion

I nominate Chicago.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1550 on: September 09, 2019, 06:19:09 PM »

So if millions of people thought that a city of 500,000 people had to die to save their lives...I would be the majority would vote to nuke the place to oblivion

I nominate Chicago.

I laughed at that and should not have.
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II
but no, instead, here comes the amalgamation of Ned Flanders, Bono, Ross Geller, Tim Henman, John Snow and fucking Rick Grimesís fucking one eyed son.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1551 on: September 09, 2019, 11:25:32 PM »

The whole argument about the common pleb being able to rise up against the government or whatever if it gets out of line is redundant anyway.

Military can not be used against the people.
We only need to take out the police.
Of course it can lol. Do you think a piece of paper is gonna stop them? When push comes to shove they'll just enforce martial law. Do you think a tyrannical government (which would presumably not obey the constitution) would refrain from doing that because of the constitution? It could only happen if the military turned on the government too.
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1552 on: September 10, 2019, 06:05:24 AM »

I think if you look around the world at what armed forces regularly do to their own peoples it is patently obvious that a pole of soldiers who say ďof course I wouldnítĒ isnít necessarily worth a hill of beans, and even where it is, the percentages you state still make for a massacre.

If you look at your Kent state shooting (1970), 37% of the national guard ďadmittedĒ to firing on the students, killing 4, paralysing 1 and wounding a further 8 in less than 20 seconds.

These were young low-grade soldiers in a tense situation in an atmosphere of distrust and rumour, but the dead were unarmed kids about 300 foot away from the 70 odd guardsmen who had already fixed bayonets, hardly a source of immediate peril.

We are an inherently violent species, everyone of us has in our ancestors, killers, who did so to get us this far, and sure, we like to think they were justified, but?     
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Shifter

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1553 on: September 27, 2019, 03:42:25 AM »
Here is Agent 47 demonstrating a bump stock on an AR15. Never knew just how rapid they could make it.




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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Another mass shooting...
« Reply #1554 on: September 27, 2019, 07:53:07 AM »
That's a great demonstration video. I'm glad he mentioned the lack of accuracy, and that accuracy isn't the goal when using one. You don't need accuracy if your goal is to spray bullets into a crowd.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.