The jump test

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The jump test
« on: December 22, 2006, 03:50:36 AM »
FES states that the earth is accellerating upwards right? If the following test is flawed i apologise but here's a little test i just made  :D

Lets say that the earth is round. When you jump 50 centimetres high, you would fall 50 centimetres down right?

Now lets say the earth is flat. Because the earth is accelerating, when you jump 50 centimetres high, you wouldn't fall the same distance down. Because the acceleration makes the distance between your feet and the floor, shorter because the earth has risen up.

Please explain.

The jump test
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2006, 03:58:07 AM »
Irrespective of which theory you agree with.

Your downward acceleration is the same.

Edit: Let me explain that a bit better. You get in a train. As it pulls off you happen to lean forward from your seat. It doesn't matter how fast the train accelerates you will still be the same distance from the seat.

However if the train is accelerating more quickly it will require more effort to lean forward.

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midgard

  • 1300
Re: The jump test
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2006, 04:12:25 AM »
Quote from: "Laurie"
FES states that the earth is accellerating upwards right? If the following test is flawed i apologise but here's a little test i just made  :D

Lets say that the earth is round. When you jump 50 centimetres high, you would fall 50 centimetres down right?

Now lets say the earth is flat. Because the earth is accelerating, when you jump 50 centimetres high, you wouldn't fall the same distance down. Because the acceleration makes the distance between your feet and the floor, shorter.

Please explain.


You are correct and incorrect.

You are correct that the Earth catches you up. This is how Flat Earth gravity works, you jump and the Earth catches you up (there's no gravity to pull you back remember).

If you were to observe it from beyond the earth you would see a person jump higher than 50cm from their original position, reach a distance of 50cm away from earth's surface (which is no longer in the same position as when you started the jump) and then see the earth catch up to the person. Just say that the jump lasts just over 1 second, the person jumped about 10.3 metres from the starting position, the earth would have moved roughly 9.8 metres (one acceleration cycle), then the person would have stopped accelerating and be inert. The earth doesn't become inert but continues to accelerate and catches the jumper who returns (or "lands") back down on the ground.

You are incorrect because if you observe it from the earth you would merely see somebody jump 50cm and fall 50cm.

Does that clear it up?

The jump test
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2006, 04:17:07 AM »
I would still like a couple more views  :wink:

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midgard

  • 1300
The jump test
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2006, 04:19:28 AM »
Do you want me to delete my posts for a while?

Better than that I could make them more interesting... :)

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rofl

  • 178
The jump test
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2006, 04:20:51 AM »
Quote
FES states that the earth is accellerating upwards right? If the following test is flawed i apologise but here's a little test i just made Very Happy

Lets say that the earth is round. When you jump 50 centimetres high, you would fall 50 centimetres down right?

Now lets say the earth is flat. Because the earth is accelerating, when you jump 50 centimetres high, you wouldn't fall the same distance down. Because the acceleration makes the distance between your feet and the floor, shorter because the earth has risen up.

Please explain.




I agree the earth is round, but that is the dumbest explination (other than my own ofcourse) that i ever read.. Think and type (a rule counting everyone except me)
fft who needs evidence when you can just say it's a conspiracy.
/Sigh
Wise words of
-Jake

Points:
2

Re: The jump test
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2006, 04:25:15 AM »
Quote from: "midgard"
Quote from: "Laurie"
FES states that the earth is accellerating upwards right? If the following test is flawed i apologise but here's a little test i just made  :D

Lets say that the earth is round. When you jump 50 centimetres high, you would fall 50 centimetres down right?

Now lets say the earth is flat. Because the earth is accelerating, when you jump 50 centimetres high, you wouldn't fall the same distance down. Because the acceleration makes the distance between your feet and the floor, shorter.

Please explain.


You are correct and incorrect.

You are correct that the Earth catches you up. This is how Flat Earth gravity works, you jump and the Earth catches you up (there's no gravity to pull you back remember).

If you were to observe it from beyond the earth you would see a person jump higher than 50cm from their original position, reach a distance of 50cm away from earth's surface (which is no longer in the same position as when you started the jump) and then see the earth catch up to the person. Just say that the jump lasts just over 1 second, the person jumped about 10.3 metres from the starting position, the earth would have moved roughly 9.8 metres (one acceleration cycle), then the person would have stopped accelerating and be inert. The earth doesn't become inert but continues to accelerate and catches the jumper who returns (or "lands") back down on the ground.

You are incorrect because if you observe it from the earth you would merely see somebody jump 50cm and fall 50cm.

Does that clear it up?


You're over confusing your own theory there.

In the FE theory the acceleration of the plane runs reverse to gravity giving the same net effect. Therefore in both cases you jump up, in the FE case you return to Earth because it arrives at your new position (Mountain to Mohammed), in the RE case gravity pulls you back-in (Mohammed to Moutain). The NET effect is no different in either case.

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midgard

  • 1300
The jump test
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2006, 04:30:52 AM »
That's what I was explaining. You would only notice mountain to m. if you could observe from beyond the earth.

From the earth it would appear as it does.

The jump test
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2006, 04:32:43 AM »
Quote from: "rofl"
Quote
FES states that the earth is accellerating upwards right? If the following test is flawed i apologise but here's a little test i just made Very Happy

Lets say that the earth is round. When you jump 50 centimetres high, you would fall 50 centimetres down right?

Now lets say the earth is flat. Because the earth is accelerating, when you jump 50 centimetres high, you wouldn't fall the same distance down. Because the acceleration makes the distance between your feet and the floor, shorter because the earth has risen up.

Please explain.




I agree the earth is round, but that is the dumbest explination (other than my own ofcourse) that i ever read.. Think and type (a rule counting everyone except me)


I am 13 years old and i just woke up.


and Midgard, i understood your post but i don't really believe you are an FE'er from some of your previous posts  :P

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rofl

  • 178
The jump test
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2006, 04:38:24 AM »
Quote
I am 13 years old.
you are?  ;p
Just messing with you. But please, think logical before posting a serious post.
Or else its to easy to fuck up for me and i will get bored ;p

Only reason i am here, is because its fun to write som fucked up things while bored ;p not that active a member either.
So i think there are 4 types of people here:
The fucked up Fe'ers who live to defend there wacko ideas.
The fucked up Not Fe'ers who live to defend the round earth.
And the fucked up normal people who live to make as many angry rantings and fucking this side up as possible, only question is, who are you?


someone who tries to let the FE'ers see that the earth is round
fft who needs evidence when you can just say it's a conspiracy.
/Sigh
Wise words of
-Jake

Points:
2

The jump test
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2006, 04:41:45 AM »
Quote from: "rofl"

someone who tries to let the FE'ers see that the earth is round


that one  :wink:

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rofl

  • 178
The jump test
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2006, 04:49:16 AM »
ok, added that one.
fft who needs evidence when you can just say it's a conspiracy.
/Sigh
Wise words of
-Jake

Points:
2

The jump test
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2006, 08:26:44 AM »
Has anyone jumped on an elevator when it was going up? I havn't, but suddenly I think I wanna see what happens...
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


The jump test
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2006, 08:33:38 AM »
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
Has anyone jumped on an elevator when it was going up? I havn't, but suddenly I think I wanna see what happens...


haha! that's great. And goes against this brilliant theory of no gravity.

edit*...actually wait...according to midgard's explanation it wouldn't disprove anything because as the earth is accelerating upwards the elevator is accelerating at a faster rate...it would catch up to you before the earth did.

The jump test
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2006, 08:37:16 AM »
Quote from: "MROC"
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
Has anyone jumped on an elevator when it was going up? I havn't, but suddenly I think I wanna see what happens...


haha! that's great. And goes against this brilliant theory of no gravity.


Not really no...

Because if the earth was accelerating upwards generating the gravity and you went and jumped on an elevator traveling upwards... You would be experiencing not only the lift of the earth but the lift of the elevator aswell.

Basically you would have to go to a space station and build an elevator in there to effectively test whether or not jumping in an upwardly accelerated environment has any effect at all differing from a "stationary" environment (I lack a better word to describe RE gravitational pull).
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


The jump test
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2006, 08:39:12 AM »
Yeah..I edited my last post after I realized that.  :oops:

The jump test
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2006, 08:42:01 AM »
Quote from: "MROC"
Yeah..I edited my last post after I realized that.  :oops:


Well at least you made the attempt! :) I do that all the time too, it beats the crap out of double posting... So annoying when people do that.

Post: blah blah blah -end-
Post: then again, blah blah blah bluh blah -end-
Post: but blah!
Different Poster: wtf?
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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Erasmus

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The jump test
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2006, 10:29:25 AM »
Quote from: "MROC"
edit*...actually wait...according to midgard's explanation it wouldn't disprove anything because as the earth is accelerating upwards the elevator is accelerating at a faster rate...it would catch up to you before the earth did.


In general -- except at the beginning and end of a journey -- elevators do not accelerate relative to the Earth.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The jump test
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2006, 10:33:16 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "MROC"
edit*...actually wait...according to midgard's explanation it wouldn't disprove anything because as the earth is accelerating upwards the elevator is accelerating at a faster rate...it would catch up to you before the earth did.


In general -- except at the beginning and end of a journey -- elevators do not accelerate relative to the Earth.


Another point, had thought of it but didn't post :p

So you would need to go into space and build an elevator in a space station that constantly accelerates (any speed would do really) and measure jump time to see if it would have any effect...
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


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Difeorleth

The jump test
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2006, 10:39:27 AM »
A quick question, have any of you ever stupied physics before? Particularly the motion of bodies? Theres more holes in all your hypotheses than i thought possible

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Erasmus

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The jump test
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2006, 10:50:04 AM »
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
So you would need to go into space and build an elevator in a space station that constantly accelerates (any speed would do really) and measure jump time to see if it would have any effect...


You wouldn't have to do the jump test -- you could just weigh yourself.  Your weight will depend on the acceleration of the elevator.  If you did do the jump test, then -- from the perspective of somebody not accelerating -- they would indeed fall a lesser distance than they jumped.

An alternative to accelerating an elevator indefinitely, you could just swing it around in a big circle by its cable.  Remember 2001?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The jump test
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2006, 10:54:50 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
So you would need to go into space and build an elevator in a space station that constantly accelerates (any speed would do really) and measure jump time to see if it would have any effect...


You wouldn't have to do the jump test -- you could just weigh yourself.  Your weight will depend on the acceleration of the elevator.  If you did do the jump test, then -- from the perspective of somebody not accelerating -- they would indeed fall a lesser distance than they jumped.

An alternative to accelerating an elevator indefinitely, you could just swing it around in a big circle by its cable.  Remember 2001?


I have no idea what you are refering to :p

The jump test would be to determine if there was actually any difference between acceleration and stationary gravitational pull.

From a stationary standpoint, if you jumped hard enough you could possibly break atmo (not that anyone could come close, likely break a leg first). Such an attempt to break atmo would be impossible on an acceleration model because you could never supply yourself with enough force to escape a world charging strait at you...
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


?

Erasmus

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The jump test
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2006, 11:00:14 AM »
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
From a stationary standpoint, if you jumped hard enough you could possibly break atmo (not that anyone could come close, likely break a leg first). Such an attempt to break atmo would be impossible on an acceleration model because you could never supply yourself with enough force to escape a world charging strait at you...


Ah, I see.  In that case, the jump test, properly executed, would be sufficient to determine the difference between gravity and acceleration.  It would work by making a nonlocal measurement -- i.e., measuring gravity at one point, and then again at a distant point.  Gravity has a tidal nature which acceleration does not.

However, in either case -- jumping in a gravitational field or jumping in an accelerating elevator -- you would eventually hit the ground again.  Even if you jump a light year away from the Earth, then -- pretending there was nothing else in the universe for a moment and that you jumped perfectly straight up -- gravity would eventually pull you back down, even if it took a very long time.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
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The jump test
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2006, 11:00:52 AM »
Quote from: "Difeorleth"
Theres more holes in all your hypotheses than i thought possible


more than you thought possible to.... list?  Give an example of?  What?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The jump test
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2006, 11:07:35 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
From a stationary standpoint, if you jumped hard enough you could possibly break atmo (not that anyone could come close, likely break a leg first). Such an attempt to break atmo would be impossible on an acceleration model because you could never supply yourself with enough force to escape a world charging strait at you...


Ah, I see.  In that case, the jump test, properly executed, would be sufficient to determine the difference between gravity and acceleration.  It would work by making a nonlocal measurement -- i.e., measuring gravity at one point, and then again at a distant point.  Gravity has a tidal nature which acceleration does not.

However, in either case -- jumping in a gravitational field or jumping in an accelerating elevator -- you would eventually hit the ground again.  Even if you jump a light year away from the Earth, then -- pretending there was nothing else in the universe for a moment and that you jumped perfectly straight up -- gravity would eventually pull you back down, even if it took a very long time.


Basically acceleration has a potentially limitless reach, but only for objects directly on it's surface.

DAMN I love using my brains on a forum for a change! Most forums I go to are festering pits of dung and fire :p

Anyway this test would never prove an FE or RE, regardless of the results. But it does define a difference between acceleration and stationary gravity :D
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
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The jump test
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2006, 11:12:34 AM »
Quote from: "Wolfwood"
Basically acceleration has a potentially limitless reach, but only for objects directly on it's surface.


Well, no.  At least, you're equivocating on "limitless reach".  If you mean "distance above the surface at which objects will appear to be attracted to the surface," then the reach is limitless, and not just for objects directly on the surface -- same goes for gravity.  If  you mean "acceleration only pushes objects directly on its surface," then obviously the reach isn't limitless.

Again, gravity and acceleration are the same thing.  Gravitational fields, however, have tidal properties, which makes them different from any other accelerating reference frame.

Quote
Anyway this test would never prove an FE or RE, regardless of the results. But it does define a difference between acceleration and stationary gravity :D


Ah, well, it would certainly determine whether the FE had a regular gravitational field or not, at which point we would have to explain why gravity doesn't point north -- however it would appear that that in fact can be done, quite simply in fact.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

The jump test
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2006, 05:35:20 AM »
Quote from: "Difeorleth"
A quick question, have any of you ever stupied physics before? Particularly the motion of bodies? Theres more holes in all your hypotheses than i thought possible


hahahahahaha awsome :lol:  man don't get smart on us :wink:
care to take a gander at my Haemorrhoids?

The jump test
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2006, 07:30:02 AM »
Quote from: "Captain_Bubblebum"
Quote from: "Difeorleth"
A quick question, have any of you ever stupied physics before? Particularly the motion of bodies? Theres more holes in all your hypotheses than i thought possible


hahahahahaha awsome :lol:  man don't get smart on us :wink:


You shoulda pointed out the grammar and spelling errors... It would have been more obvious...

Quote from: "Difeorleth"
A quick question, have any of you ever stupied physics before? Particularly the motion of bodies? Theres more holes in all your hypotheses than i thought possible


It's like "all you're bases are belong to us!"
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


The jump test
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2006, 07:37:14 AM »
if people aren't able to see the joke they don't deserve to experience the joke.  once the joke has been explained it's ruined - that's what i believe anyway.

i love the quote "all you're bases are belong to us!" though :lol:   it makes me smile whenever its used :)
care to take a gander at my Haemorrhoids?

The jump test
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2006, 07:39:21 AM »
Quote from: "Captain_Bubblebum"
if people aren't able to see the joke they don't deserve to experience the joke.  once the joke has been explained it's ruined - that's what i believe anyway.

i love the quote "all you're bases are belong to us!" though :lol:   it makes me smile whenever its used :)


I like explaining the joke in detail...

"well you see it's funny because blondes are often times considered dumb, the reality of this is that blonde hair actually gives a kind of sensation to those who have it much like lion mane color for males generates a different reaction from female lions".
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one