Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane

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fjr66

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Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« on: October 25, 2017, 09:44:52 AM »
Twin whirlpool rotate in opposite direction because they follow principle of gear system:
This is one example from youtube:
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But Hurricane as far as google concerned, rotate in the same direction. This is one of example given by google
Hurricane Image By google

It is known that hurricane caused by Coriolis Effect, but if the athmosphere itself rotate with the earth, then impossible for us to experience this phenomena. Maybe we can remove this concept from our curriculum. 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 10:38:45 AM by fjr66 »

Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 12:52:32 PM »
Twin whirlpool rotate in opposite direction because they follow principle of gear system:
The twin whirlpool rotates in opposite direction because of how they form.
It is fundamentally different to hurricanes because of the scale involved.

But Hurricane as far as google concerned, rotate in the same direction. This is one of example given by google
It is known that hurricane caused by Coriolis Effect, but if the athmosphere itself rotate with the earth, then impossible for us to experience this phenomena. Maybe we can remove this concept from our curriculum.
The atmosphere mostly rotates with Earth, but there are still winds. As these winds blow around, the coriolis force causes their path to curve.
So no, there is nothing impossible about this.

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rabinoz

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Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 08:25:12 PM »
Twin whirlpool rotate in opposite direction because they follow principle of gear system:
This is one example from youtube:
[youtube][/youtube]
Awesome Twin Whirlpools in Australian floodwaters.

But Hurricane as far as google concerned, rotate in the same direction. This is one of example given by google
Hurricane Image By google

It is known that hurricane caused by Coriolis Effect, but if the athmosphere itself rotate with the earth, then impossible for us to experience this phenomena. Maybe we can remove this concept from our curriculum.
Not quite!
Hurricanes in the Northern Hemisphere rotate anti-clockwise and in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise.

The Coriolis effect on the rotating earth explains this perfectly, but there is no satisfactory explanantion on the stationary flat earth.

There are four distinct situations that are observed for High Pressure Weather systems and Low Pressure Weather systems, including Hurricanes, Typhoons and Cyclones, in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres.
     
Northern Hemisphere
     
Southern Hemisphere
Highs
     
Clockwise
     
Anti-clockwise
Lows
     
Anti-clockwise
     
Clockwise



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fjr66

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Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2017, 05:52:50 AM »
The twin whirlpool rotates in opposite direction because of how they form.
It is fundamentally different to hurricanes because of the scale involved.
I think there is some better explanation from stand of point theoretical fluid dynamics.
The atmosphere mostly rotates with Earth, but there are still winds. As these winds blow around, the coriolis force causes their path to curve.
So no, there is nothing impossible about this.
But the wind itself also follow rotation of the earth because of conservation of angular momentum. The wind carry tangential velocity from rotation of the earth before it become a wind. If not then beside it travel to north or south it will have additional motion to the west up to 465 m/s.

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fjr66

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Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2017, 05:58:50 AM »
Not quite!
Hurricanes in the Northern Hemisphere rotate anti-clockwise and in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise.

The Coriolis effect on the rotating earth explains this perfectly, but there is no satisfactory explanantion on the stationary flat earth.
But it is violate the law of physics (fluid dynamics). Even if there is no any good explanation, it is not the reason for us to accept  wrong explanation.

Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 01:09:03 PM »
I think there is some better explanation from stand of point theoretical fluid dynamics.
Yes, there is, but whirlpools are mostly irrelevant to the shape of Earth.

But the wind itself also follow rotation of the earth because of conservation of angular momentum. The wind carry tangential velocity from rotation of the earth before it become a wind. If not then beside it travel to north or south it will have additional motion to the west up to 465 m/s.
You are somewhat right.
The air does start by moving with Earth. So say you have air at the equator, travelling at 465 m/s, to the east, making it move along with Earth.
But now air pressure differences causes it to become wind moving to the north (the exact speed doesn't matter that much).
Now, with it moving to the north, it is still travelling some 465 m/s east.  But now the ground  it is above is only travelling at 460 m/s.
This is going to make it appear to drift east or curve to the right as the east-west component of the wind is now greater than the east-west component of Earth's motion.
As it continues moving up, it will continue to drift to the east and curve around until its directionality is pure east.

What if the air was moving south towards the equator from the north?
Well lets say you have the air start off moving at 400 m/s east, along with Earth. But now it moves south, to a region where Earth is spinning at 405 m/s. This means the air is now travelling 5 m/s slower than Earth and thus it will fall behind, drifting to the west, or apparently curving to the right (as west is right of south).

These apply regardless of if it is moving perfectly north-south or off that with an east-west component as well. In the northern hemisphere moving north or south will cause the wind to appear to curve to the right.

But what about when the wind is moving due east or due west? Well this is somewhat more complex.
First you need to note that it will be following a great circle route for a "straight" path, not continually moving east/west. In a large scale example this will result in your path turning towards south just to follow the straight line. But in the same time you have moved this distance, Earth will have rotated to the east and thus you end up west of your apparent straight line path. This results in you curving right.

So regardless of how the wind moves, assuming it starts off pretty much following Earth, it will curve to the right in the northern hemisphere.
In the southern hemisphere it will curve left.

Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 01:09:44 PM »
But it is violate the law of physics (fluid dynamics). Even if there is no any good explanation, it is not the reason for us to accept  wrong explanation.
How does it violate the laws of physics?
If you wish to claim something that extreme you need far more than a baseless assertion.

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rabinoz

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Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 01:47:41 PM »
Not quite!
Hurricanes in the Northern Hemisphere rotate anti-clockwise and in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise.

The Coriolis effect on the rotating earth explains this perfectly, but there is no satisfactory explanantion on the stationary flat earth.
But it is violate the law of physics (fluid dynamics). Even if there is no any good explanation, it is not the reason for us to accept  wrong explanation.

Observed Fact: Hurricanes in the Northern Hemisphere rotate anti-clockwise and in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise.

   Total fallacy: But it is violate the law of physics (fluid dynamics).

So your claim that:, "Even if there is no any good explanation, it is not the reason for us to accept  wrong explanation"
is totally incorrect. If you disagree, please present your evidence.

The Coriolis and Eötvös effects, both due to the earth's rotation are very well proven and solidly based in theory.

Here is a video that demonstrates the change in effective g caused by the Eötvös effects:
[youtube][/youtube]
Flat Earth vs Globe - The Eötvös effect observed in aircraft - how does it affect Gravity?

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fjr66

  • 123
Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 08:38:50 PM »
How does it violate the laws of physics?
If you wish to claim something that extreme you need far more than a baseless assertion.
How you can simulate that,
every fluid must obey Navier Stokes Equation..
[youtube][/youtube]

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rabinoz

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Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 09:51:51 PM »
How does it violate the laws of physics?
If you wish to claim something that extreme you need far more than a baseless assertion.
How you can simulate that,
every fluid must obey Navier Stokes Equation..
[youtube][/youtube]
Why would we bother? There is no conflict between the Coriolis effect and the Navier Stokes Equation. The Coriolis effect in just another input.

You might read, Advances in Mathematical Physics, Solutions of Navier-Stokes Equation with Coriolis Force, Sunggeun Lee, Shin-Kun Ryi, and Hankwon Lim.
It's far too deep for me, but with your expertise in the Navier Stokes Equation I imagine that you will follow it easy enough.

Re: Twin Whirlpool vs Twin Hurricane
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 03:05:45 PM »
How does it violate the laws of physics?
If you wish to claim something that extreme you need far more than a baseless assertion.
How you can simulate that,
every fluid must obey Navier Stokes Equation..
Not being able to easily simulate it doesn't mean it is impossible.

So again, how does it violate the lows of physics?