The False Conspiracy

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The False Conspiracy
« on: September 29, 2017, 02:58:21 AM »
Most Flat Earthers believe there is a conspiracy to prevent the knowledge of the fact that the earth supposedly is flat. A conspiracy they believe is orchestrated by NASA most likely for financial gain. They believe that the world believed the earth was flat up till about 500 years ago. I have issues with this particular conspiracy theory.

First it is obvious that 500 years ago, the United states did not exist not to talk of NASA as an organization. This makes it difficult to see how NASA is responsible for this conspiracy. It is also wrong to think that most of the world believed the earth to be flat up to about 500 years ago. Christopher Columbus did not sail the world to prove it was round. He already knew it was round and was looking to find a different route to Asia by going around the ball. Magellan did not sail to prove the earth was round. He sailed to show it could be circumnavigated (and to be the first to do so).

So using the “500 year” point is not a fact. It is an opinion. Long before “500 years ago” the round earth was a well understood and accepted fact all over the world. In and out of religious circles. 2 examples include

The monk Bede (c. 672–735) wrote in his influential treatise on computus, The Reckoning of Time, that the Earth was round. He explained the unequal length of daylight from "the roundness of the Earth, for not without reason is it called 'the orb of the world' on the pages of Holy Scripture and of ordinary literature. It is, in fact, set like a sphere in the middle of the whole universe." (De temporum ratione, 32).

Around 830 AD, Caliph Al-Ma'mun commissioned a group of Muslim astronomers and geographers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to Raqqa in modern Syria. They found the cities to be separated by one degree of latitude and the meridian arc distance between them to be 66 2⁄3 miles and thus calculated the Earth's circumference to be 24,000 miles.[51]

As a matter of fact, Galileo’s disagreement with the church was not a debate between a flat or a round earth. It was a debate of the earth orbiting the sun or the sun orbiting the earth. For both sides, a round earth was a given.

Come to think of it, why did Eratosthenes interpret his calculations to be the earth’s circumference? Afterall, the same calculations could be argued to give the height of the sun above a flat earth (ergo the 3000 miles that flat earthers cite as the height of the sun above the earth).  It was just a matter of time before sailors would come to the conclusion that the earth had to be round. As ancient mariners sailed further out to sea and realized that land seemed to sink or rise up from the sea the further or closer one got to it, as they found different stars in the sky the further north or south they sailed, as they noticed the stars seemed to rotate around one point in the north and another in the south, these and other occurrences pointed ancient man to a round earth that by about 200 A.D. Greek philosophers had pretty much concluded that the earth was round and as such Eratosthenes immediately took his calculations to be for the circumference of the earth.

So if flat earthers want to call this a conspiracy, they have to go much further back than NASA, Christopher Columbus, Jesuits and co and probably start investigating the Greeks and Arabs for wanting to deceive the rest of the world.

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rabinoz

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Re: The False Conspiracy
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 02:20:22 PM »
Most Flat Earthers believe there is a conspiracy to prevent the knowledge of the fact that the earth supposedly is flat. A conspiracy they believe is orchestrated by NASA most likely for financial gain. They believe that the world believed the earth was flat up till about 500 years ago. I have issues with this particular conspiracy theory.
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So if flat earthers want to call this a conspiracy, they have to go much further back than NASA, Christopher Columbus, Jesuits and co and probably start investigating the Greeks and Arabs for wanting to deceive the rest of the world.
I agree. I posted the following information on an earlier thread, Mikey T., FE without the conspiracy. « on: June 26, 2017, 09:31:03 PM »

Since the idea of a flat earth simply cannot be entertained without all the world's space agencies being involved, I would claim that there is no possible way that the real shape can be covered up.
As of 2017, 71 different government space agencies are in existence; 13 of those have launch capability, see List of government space agencies for information on each.

And I would claim that the people listed below would certainly know the true shape of the earth to simply perform their everyday tasks:
  • All involved directly in the space industry.
    Would you suggest that those directly involved the space industry do not know the true shape of the earth?
    This has to include those processing the thousands of full hemisphere photographs of the earth. You're joking!

  • All international ships' navigators: They use marine gyrocompasses and need to be proficient in celestial navigation. They must plan the appropriate course and calculate the required fuel load. The distances on the most accepted flat earth continental layout are much larger than on a globe in the Southern Hemisphere.

    The marine gyrocompasses rely on the earth's rotation and could not work on a stationary earth.

    The big killer for the usual flat earth map here is the massively extra distance of all east to/from west routes in the southern hemisphere.
    This makes a number of regular airline routes quite impossible on the flat earth.
    You might suggest some different map, but those I have seen have their own impossibilities.

  • All international airline route planners, pilots and first officers: They must plan the appropriate course and calculate the required fuel load. The distances on at least the most accepted flat earth continental layout are greatly larger than on a globe in the Southern Hemisphere. As above.

  • All astronomers, both amateur and professional: Apart from all the differences in the detail of movement of celestial objects, all astronomers are aware of the "equatorial telescope mount", which simply could not work in the same way (if at all) on a flat earth.
    The observations of even the sun and moon positions that anyone can make are completely at odds with any flat earth model.
    When you look at the unchanging shapes of the constellations, you might realise that no astronomer would think the earth flat.

  • All geodetic surveyors: They take measurements on large areas of the earth, and would soon know its shape.

    Geodetic surveyors measure the shapes and sizes of large areas of land, including countries and continents.
    Even the shapes of, especially southern hemisphere, countries are grossly distorted on any flat earth map we have.

    When it comes to the dimensions of the earth we get values that simply will not fit on a flat surface.

  • All surveyors dealing in mining and tunnelling: where the Gyro-Theodolite is used for finding true directions in places where celestial observations (or GPS fixes) are not possible.

    These instruments, like the marine gyro compass  rely on the rotation of the earth, and simply would not be possible on a stationary flat earth,

  • All engineers planning microwave links: where the maximum tower spacing is determined by the curve of the earth - and yes, they do know about refraction etc.

    Might be a bit hard to explain to someone with your total ignorance of things like this.

  • All those installing satellite TV dishes: and satellite communications links. The locations of satellites is vitally important in aligning the receiving antennae.

    Are you really going to pretend that all those installing satellite dishes, from the huge ones at base stations to all the domestic ones, are so ignorant of antenna theory that they can't tell where these dishes are pointing?

These people just go about their work based on the Globe Earth. If the earth were flat and not rotating many of these tasks would be performed quite differently or not exist at all and the people involved would certainly know the difference.

No, you cannot possibly hide the true shape of the earth from so many people.

So are all these people lying to rest of the world? I simply do not believe it.

In other words, all the members of this Flat Earthism Cult are deluding yourselves and despicably calling so many honest people deceivers.

There were no Flat Earther responses to that thread, unless you include:
        Tessa Yuri, who claims, ::) I think ::), that Tessa is RE and Yuri is FE - split somethinh-or-other and
        Jane who does not believe the earth is flat, but argues against anything for that sake of arguing . . . . . . it's safer to say no more!.

I hope you have more success.