This is all a bit absurd.

  • 830 Replies
  • 136319 Views
*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #420 on: October 04, 2017, 02:25:42 AM »
Maybe not but those rods are certainly fooling a lot of people into a belief that they work without any external input.
Again, there is no evidence to suggest it is fooling anyone.
If you're being fooled then you're of a belief that what is fooling you is a truth, so there's hardly any evidence of fooling for those that don't believe they are being fooled.


Again, do you say the same about petrol? That it is certainly fooling a lot of people into a belief that it works without any external input.
That you can just pour some liquid into your car's fuel tank and have it run for hundreds of km (sometimes over 1.5 thousand if it is a truck with a large fuel tank), without any energy input.
IT HAS TO BE FAKE!!!!!
It must be some conspiracy by the government to hide the real source of energy so they can keep charging you ridiculous prices for this useless liquid which just gets pumped out the exhaust.
We can see the process that makes it and we see the end product of it going into the car or truck.
We see the engines and how they work, physically.
Nothing is hidden behind a cloak.
It ignites with a spark (petrol) and gives out its energy which is vented to the atmosphere as waste exhaust.
You so called nuclear power sits in a tank of water under pressure, as we are told and just heats the water in a continuous closed cycle with absolutely no exhaust from the steam or so called energy creating it.#
It's masked with the old condenser crap that supposedly keeps everything hunky dory whilst the energy given off by the so called nuclear pellets don't require an exhaust or atmosphere at all, as we are told.
It's known as magic in sci-fi world but sold to the gullible as super quarter century energy giving metal.






Well your rod bundles appear to be doing the job of it, so why not elements?
Because those "bundles" are made out of a radioactive material which can undergo spontaneous fusion releasing large amounts of energy in the process.
Of course.  ::)



On the other hand, heating elements are typically made out of iron, which has no nuclear potential energy (at least not any that we know of), or aluminium which is quite stable against nuclear decay and would require fusion, not fission.
It has no nuclear potential energy because it's not nuclear. It would be elements using external power to heat them to heat water into steam.




If elements break I'm sure there will be many others to carry the load for heating water.
You still need an explanation for why the power output suddenly dropped, why it isn't heating the water as much.
If you have a rod bundle of elements that can be lifted up and down then I'm pretty sure you can have extra unused rods as a back up ready to energise as and when one breaks down.
Then, in time when too many of them break down and do not give the output required, they shut down for maintenance, which weirdly they tend to do on a fairly regular basis if anyone's noticed.






Yeah, all proficient in nuclear.
Compartmentalisation sees to it that anything can be passed off as other than rather than is.
Nope.
Compartmentalisation may allow those not working on the reactor, with no knowledge of the reactor, to be fooled into thinking it is something it is not.
But those working on the reactor would need to know.
Otherwise they would get quite suspicious every time someone else had to come in to fix the reactor.
That depends on who those people are who work on a reactor.
A so called nuclear rod could be an element. How in the hell would anyone really know?
Lifting out rods with suits on and dropping them into big pools could be another ruse in itself.
There's plenty of ways to play this out on people in that game.
Obviously not in your eyes because you stance is to never question anything that goes against mainstream official lines.

?

zork

  • 3319
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #421 on: October 04, 2017, 03:28:03 AM »
I am sure that you have room full of little pony unicorns. All hopping around and crapping rainbow colored chocolate cakes. But as I said, you are not here and its no use to talk about it.
Similar to how nuclear power gets told.
Not similar. Because there are other people who learn it, deal with this stuff, there are people who have experienced it, died from it, governments who have to deal with nuclear waste left over from nuclear energy plants but you just deny it. There are no similarities here.

If you see magician do tricks in front of you then you experience it and have some idea about it.
 So it is not the same as with nuclear power. You have only heard of it, have absolutely no knowledge what it is and no experience with it but you claim that its impossible.
If you have no clue how that magician does his/her tricks you are left with two options.
1. You can know it's a trick and try and find out how it's done.

2. You can be amazed by the magic of it and treat it as real and not a trick.

You fall into the second category.
  No, you fall into the second category. But instead of being amazed you are disappointed and treat the trick as magic. Your nuclear power is perfect example of it. You always call it magic but you don't even try to work out how it works.

No, you can't dispute it if you have absolutely no knowledge about it and have no experience with it. You don't have to accept it and you don't have to believe it but you can't dispute it.
Ok.
You tell me a story about seeing a ghostly man riding a bike. You tell me that you keep experiencing this on your walk in the woods with your adult art magazines  ;).
I dispute it which angers you, so I ask you to show me this ghost of a man on his bike.
Every day we go at the times you mention and every day we see nothing, or I see nothing and you shout, "there he is, can you see him."
I say no and carry on disputing.
Are you telling me that I have to take your word for it like you are doing with those that feed you this type of stuff, from ghosts to religion to magical energy and so on and so on?
Let me make it clear what I mean by "dispute". If you are disputing something then you must have some some experience and knowledge about thing you dispute. Disputing isn't just statements like "I don't believe", "its impossible", "it cannot work" and other statement without any explanations why it cannot work or why it is impossible and so on. In you example you don't dispute me, you just express your disbelief and ask evidence. You can't argue against me why I can't see ghost bike. Maybe you have some disability which prevents you seeing it. Maybe I have some disease which makes me see some objects differently from you. If you have no knowledge about what happens then you can't argue against it with any reasonable argument because you don't have any. You can only express your disbelief.

I have said that I don't care what you think or imagine about nuclear power. I asked quite concrete question - how you determine how much energy is packed inside something? Can you answer that or do you always must ramble about something else?
In terms of your nuclear power I have no clue how they determine how they get 25 years out of some pellets of uranium so called hard metal inside a rod that only uses 20% in that 25 years, apparently.
And in terms of any other object? Can you determine how much energy is in piece of wood? Piece of coal? Pack of C4? My point is that if you cannot determine how much energy is in any other objects then how can you determine that there is no such energy inside nuclear material as others say there is?
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

*

JackBlack

  • 21706
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #422 on: October 04, 2017, 03:57:24 AM »
If you're being fooled then you're of a belief that what is fooling you is a truth, so there's hardly any evidence of fooling for those that don't believe they are being fooled.
No, there is still typically some evidence. Regardless, you have no evidence yourself, even though you claim you aren't being fooled.


We can see the process that makes it and we see the end product of it going into the car or truck.
No we don't.
The vast majority of people just see the petrol. No one sees it being made. It takes millions of years to make.

We see the engines and how they work, physically.
Nope. We don't see how it turns that liquid into energy.
With some specially designed engines (which I have never seen in person) you can see the pistons move up and down and little explosions occurring, but no evidence that the fuel is doing it. If anything, this would count against it as you don't see the liquid going into it.

But most you don't even get that. You see the fuel line goes to the engine, which is a big metal block which you don't see the insides of when it is running.

Nothing is hidden behind a cloak.
It ignites with a spark (petrol) and gives out its energy which is vented to the atmosphere as waste exhaust.
Have you ever witnessed that with your own eyes?
Sure, people say it is that, but where is the evidence?

You so called nuclear power sits in a tank of water under pressure, as we are told and just heats the water in a continuous closed cycle with absolutely no exhaust from the steam or so called energy creating it.
So? It has no need for exhaust as it isn't combustion. Instead it decays into other chunks of crap.

It's known as magic in sci-fi world but sold to the gullible as super quarter century energy giving metal.
Sure, just like petrol as super thousand km energy giving liquid.

It has no nuclear potential energy because it's not nuclear. It would be elements using external power to heat them to heat water into steam.
Sure, just like petrol has no chemical potential energy because its not chemical, it is just liquid.

You keep baselessly claiming it is heating elements with no evidence or rational argument at all.
You keep dismissing it as being nuclear with no evidence or rational argument at all.

You still need an explanation for why the power output suddenly dropped, why it isn't heating the water as much.
If you have a rod bundle of elements that can be lifted up and down then I'm pretty sure you can have extra unused rods as a back up ready to energise as and when one breaks down.
Those rods which are lifted up and down wouldn't be the heating elements. That is because the higher the more heat they need to give to the extent when they are completely out they need to give the most heat.

Then, in time when too many of them break down and do not give the output required, they shut down for maintenance, which weirdly they tend to do on a fairly regular basis if anyone's noticed.
But these people doing the maintenance are those you are trying to fool.

That depends on who those people are who work on a reactor.
They are the ones you are claiming are being fooled.

A so called nuclear rod could be an element. How in the hell would anyone really know?
In a way it is. It decays, releasing nuclear potential energy which heats the water.

In order for it to be electrical it would need a power source.

Obviously not in your eyes because you stance is to never question anything that goes against mainstream official lines.
No, my stance is to not be a paranoid delusional twat, and instead accept the most rational explanation.
I have questioned it and had my questions sufficiently answered. It is what makes the most sense.
I have even personally gathered evidence in favour of nuclear energy.
Until someone can provide a sound reason for why I should question it any more I see no reason to reject it.

Meanwhile, the simple fact it goes with mainstream official lines is enough for you to completely reject it.

Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #423 on: October 04, 2017, 06:03:49 AM »
A submarine using two nuclear reactors makes absolutely no sense if they were a reality. No sense at all.
It's not a case of if one breaks, because nuclear reactors breaking does not mean switching off a button and that's that....as they tell us.
The power they're supposed to give out with these rods by simply boiling water seems to be not enough to run a sub unless there's two.
I find that pathetic in the extreme but not so pathetic if those two energy givers were something else.
Again with the “as they tell us” motif?  Link to where “they” tell us this, please?

That reminds me, I made a mistake that I need to correct: because my at-sea experience was all on a dual-reactor cruiser, I forgot that submarines have only one reactor.  This has been a big point for you, you can let it go now, that’s good news.  I actually did know this once, because my training before going to the Truxtun was at a prototype in Idaho for the power plant eventually built for the USS Narwhal, but years at sea operating with a second reactor plant to back up mine have made “two reactors” my default way of thinking about naval nuclear power.

You keep talking about secret spaces on submarines as if the crew is forbidden to go certain places.  It would be stupidly dangerous to forbid the crew from accessing certain spaces.  When the submarine is at sea, a leak can happen in any space.  A fire could happen in any space.  The crew therefore has access to every space, in order to quickly deal with these vessel-threatening emergencies.  In fact, the crew inspects every single space on board several times a day.  The bigger picture is that the crew is required to be intimately familiar with the entire vessel.  They are required to be able to find their way around the entire vessel, with or without light, with the vessel at an even keel or with it pitching, rolling, maneuvering, or sinking.  Your theory of secret spaces on a submarine to which the crew has no access?  Doesn't happen.
It doesn't have to be a secret space. It only has to be a off limit area that only select people are allowed into.
You make out that everyone has to know every inch of the vessel.
Maybe not quite.
Or maybe exactly so.  In order to earn oneself the Enlisted Sub Surface Warfare device, colloquially called “dolphins”, a sailor must have visited and become familiar with every single space on board.  Every space.  Even those that are not part of his job (especially those, in fact).  Even those that would be off limits usually.  He has to know the sub well enough to get around when it is on fire and sinking, because the crew has nobody to call to save the boat, they have to save the boat themselves.
It DOES have to be a secret space, because nobody who ever served in a submarine reports a mysterious off-limits area the size of an engine room.  And if it existed These “select people” you speak of, they would have to be part of the crew.  The same crew you think are all being duped.
In fact, you keep talking about submarines as if you know anything about them.  They are very different than how you seem to imagine them.
No they're really not.
You have no way of knowing this.  I know you need it to be true if your “no nuke” fairy tale has any chance, but that doesn’t make it true.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #424 on: October 04, 2017, 07:04:44 AM »

 Can you determine how much energy is in piece of wood? Piece of coal? Pack of C4? My point is that if you cannot determine how much energy is in any other objects then how can you determine that there is no such energy inside nuclear material as others say there is?
I can only determine what something has or is by physically seeing it produce.
Nuclear fuel is not seen to produce anything other than what we are told it produces..
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 07:29:28 AM by sceptimatic »

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #425 on: October 04, 2017, 07:34:03 AM »
No, my stance is to not be a paranoid delusional twat, and instead accept the most rational explanation.
But you aren't accepting the most rational explanation. You are accepting an explanation that has been almost hammered into your psyche.

I have questioned it and had my questions sufficiently answered. It is what makes the most sense.
You haven't had anything really answered to make any sense.
You've been told about this energy and how it works and what it does and went with it based purely on that.


I have even personally gathered evidence in favour of nuclear energy.
Until someone can provide a sound reason for why I should question it any more I see no reason to reject it.
What evidence have you personally gathered?


Meanwhile, the simple fact it goes with mainstream official lines is enough for you to completely reject it.
The simple fact is, if it seems to good to be true, it generally is.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #426 on: October 04, 2017, 07:46:52 AM »

That reminds me, I made a mistake that I need to correct: because my at-sea experience was all on a dual-reactor cruiser, I forgot that submarines have only one reactor.
Don't worry about it. Keep reading up on it and you'll make less slip ups.


  This has been a big point for you, you can let it go now, that’s good news.
Let it go? Why?


  I actually did know this once, because my training before going to the Truxtun was at a prototype in Idaho for the power plant eventually built for the USS Narwhal, but years at sea operating with a second reactor plant to back up mine have made “two reactors” my default way of thinking about naval nuclear power.

Like I said earlier, don't worry about it. The more you read up on this stuff the more you'll have ready answers without fault.

*

Gumwars

  • 793
  • A poke in your eye good sir...
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #427 on: October 04, 2017, 07:56:47 AM »
No, my stance is to not be a paranoid delusional twat, and instead accept the most rational explanation.
But you aren't accepting the most rational explanation. You are accepting an explanation that has been almost hammered into your psyche.

I have questioned it and had my questions sufficiently answered. It is what makes the most sense.
You haven't had anything really answered to make any sense.
You've been told about this energy and how it works and what it does and went with it based purely on that.


I have even personally gathered evidence in favour of nuclear energy.
Until someone can provide a sound reason for why I should question it any more I see no reason to reject it.
What evidence have you personally gathered?


Meanwhile, the simple fact it goes with mainstream official lines is enough for you to completely reject it.
The simple fact is, if it seems to good to be true, it generally is.
Is there anything you spew that isn't anecdotal bullshit?
Quote from: Carl Sagan
We should endeavor to always keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #428 on: October 04, 2017, 08:14:31 AM »

Is there anything you spew that isn't anecdotal evidence?
Some things but mainly like you people do.
I don't see anyone providing and concrete proof of anything. Maybe you can do it, eh?

Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #429 on: October 04, 2017, 09:07:22 AM »
That reminds me, I made a mistake that I need to correct: because my at-sea experience was all on a dual-reactor cruiser, I forgot that submarines have only one reactor.
Don't worry about it. Keep reading up on it and you'll make less slip ups.
Yes, exactly.  That's good advice.  Have you tried it?

  This has been a big point for you, you can let it go now, that’s good news.
Let it go? Why?
You can let it go because the "two reactors on a sub" thing turns out not to be a fact after all, so any portion of your objection that rests on how silly it would be to have two reactors is moot.  Cruisers and aircraft carriers have multiple reactors, but submarines do not.

  I actually did know this once, because my training before going to the Truxtun was at a prototype in Idaho for the power plant eventually built for the USS Narwhal, but years at sea operating with a second reactor plant to back up mine have made “two reactors” my default way of thinking about naval nuclear power.
Like I said earlier, don't worry about it. The more you read up on this stuff the more you'll have ready answers without fault.
Yep, you should try it.  When you acknowledge that you don't know something, and read the information provided by people who do know, it can only improve things.  I highly recommend the following material for you to read, in ascending order of time commitment required:

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #430 on: October 04, 2017, 09:25:16 AM »
  This has been a big point for you, you can let it go now, that’s good news.
Let it go? Why?
You can let it go because the "two reactors on a sub" thing turns out not to be a fact after all, so any portion of your objection that rests on how silly it would be to have two reactors is moot.  Cruisers and aircraft carriers have multiple reactors, but submarines do not.
They tell us that this had two.....USS Triton (SSRN-586)



Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #431 on: October 04, 2017, 10:04:50 AM »
They tell us that this had two.....USS Triton (SSRN-586)
First: good find.
Second: So one submarine had two reactors, one very early submarine.  This means you were right about one thing: two reactors turned out to not be the best way to power submarines.
Having established that we can move on, because that point is irrelevant to all the other submarines ever.  The ones that have only a single reactor.

Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #432 on: October 04, 2017, 10:15:12 AM »
What is generating the power needed to run the elements needed to fool people into thinking its nuclear?
Potentially, hydrogen.
Why is your answer of "potentially hydrogen" any better than the rest of the world's answer of "definitely uranium"?

Suppose you're right and "hydrogen" is the secret power source.
  • How do you get heat from hydrogen?
  • How much hydrogen is required to keep a submarine operating on "fake nuclear power" for a 75 day patrol?
  • Where do you store that quantity of hydrogen on a submarine without the crew knowing it's there?
  • When the boat comes home, how do you reload the hydrogen without the crew knowing you're doing it?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #433 on: October 04, 2017, 10:16:58 AM »
They tell us that this had two.....USS Triton (SSRN-586)
First: good find.
Second: So one submarine had two reactors, one very early submarine.  This means you were right about one thing: two reactors turned out to not be the best way to power submarines.
Having established that we can move on, because that point is irrelevant to all the other submarines ever.  The ones that have only a single reactor.
To be honest, I find it more than relevant to the potential for the dupe.

You see, it's not like sticking an extra diesel engine in, it about sticking in an extra reactor for whatever reason, as we are told they did.

So what was the reason in terms of believable reality?
one to back up another in case it breaks?
It appears to be counterproductive when you consider a breakage in what we are told is nuclear is not a simple leave it and carry on ideal, then switch to reactor two and kick start that up.

In the late 50's of all times, when so called nuclear power plants were in their infancy on land and they go and stick a pair of so called nuclear reactors inside a submarine for 10 years and then go, oops, maybe not two.

Come on for crying out loud. Is it any wonder why I question this nonsense.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #434 on: October 04, 2017, 10:23:39 AM »
What is generating the power needed to run the elements needed to fool people into thinking its nuclear?
Potentially, hydrogen.
Why is your answer of "potentially hydrogen" any better than the rest of the world's answer of "definitely uranium"?
Because it makes more rational sense but even that may not be the ultimate entire answer.


Suppose you're right and "hydrogen" is the secret power source.
How do you get heat from hydrogen?
Engine and batteries.

How much hydrogen is required to keep a submarine operating on "fake nuclear power" for a 75 day patrol?
I don't know.

Where do you store that quantity of hydrogen on a submarine without the crew knowing it's there?
You store some and make the rest on the fly.

When the boat comes home, how do you reload the hydrogen without the crew knowing you're doing it?

You don't. You simply replenish it by recharging.

Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #435 on: October 04, 2017, 10:45:18 AM »
What is generating the power needed to run the elements needed to fool people into thinking its nuclear?
Potentially, hydrogen.
Why is your answer of "potentially hydrogen" any better than the rest of the world's answer of "definitely uranium"?
Because it makes more rational sense but even that may not be the ultimate entire answer.


Suppose you're right and "hydrogen" is the secret power source.
How do you get heat from hydrogen?
Engine and batteries.
do you have any informations what kind of engines and batteries?
Quote
How much hydrogen is required to keep a submarine operating on "fake nuclear power" for a 75 day patrol?
I don't know.
you are correct you don't know
therefore you can not claim to be right
Quote
Where do you store that quantity of hydrogen on a submarine without the crew knowing it's there?
You store some and make the rest on the fly.
how many is some
and also can you provide any energy calculation for the production on the fly
also how do they make it if they are submerged?
Quote
When the boat comes home, how do you reload the hydrogen without the crew knowing you're doing it?

You don't. You simply replenish it by recharging.
how does it get recharged?
what kind of technic is use to produce the hydrogen?

*

JackBlack

  • 21706
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #436 on: October 04, 2017, 12:57:01 PM »
I can only determine what something has or is by physically seeing it produce.
That is by far the worst way to try and determine it as you get losses to the environment which can be quite significant.

But you aren't accepting the most rational explanation. You are accepting an explanation that has been almost hammered into your psyche.
Nothing has been hammered into my psyche.
And as you are yet to present a viable alternative, I am accepting the most rational explanation.

You haven't had anything really answered to make any sense.
Yes I have. Again, stop lying about me.

You've been told about this energy and how it works and what it does and went with it based purely on that.
Nope. Not purely based upon that, there is also evidence for it.
Regardless, that is still infinitely better than anything you have been able to do.
People can provide an explanation for how nuclear power works, an explanation which actually makes sense and an explanation which matches observed reality.


What evidence have you personally gathered?
I have already told you that and you simply ignored it.
I have measured radioactive decay. I have also measured the mass of various atoms (or moleculular fragments) and noticed that the mass doesn't add up based upon the constituent parts of the atoms, requiring a defect due to a nuclear binding force.

The simple fact is, if it seems to good to be true, it generally is.
And that doesn't describe nuclear energy at all.


Also, I see you completely ignored your arguments (as presented by me) against petrol powering cars.
What's up, realised you can't object to them without blowing your arguments against nuclear power away?

I don't see anyone providing and concrete proof of anything. Maybe you can do it, eh?
That is because you reject all the evidence people provide because you are a paranoid and refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit with your delusional bullshit.
The only way to give you concrete proof is to give you the physical evidence, and that is quite difficult to do over the internet.

You see, it's not like sticking an extra diesel engine in, it about sticking in an extra reactor for whatever reason, as we are told they did.
How is it different?

So what was the reason in terms of believable reality?
To provide more power and thus more speed.

Come on for crying out loud. Is it any wonder why I question this nonsense.
We know why you question this reality, because it doesn't fit with your delusional bullshit.
You are the one providing nonsense.

Because it makes more rational sense but even that may not be the ultimate entire answer.
No. It makes almost no sense at all.
Nuclear power is the far more rational answer.

You need to tell us why they would bother faking it as nuclear in the first place rather than just running it off hydrogen, how they manage to store the hydrogen and then feed it to the reactor and then replace it and how the "reactor" converts this hydrogen into heat.

Engine and batteries.
Elaborate. An engine doesn't magically convert hydrogen to energy.

You store some and make the rest on the fly.
And just how are you planning on making the rest?
How much energy does it take to make the rest?
Where do you get this energy from?

You don't. You simply replenish it by recharging.
How?
Using what energy?

Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #437 on: October 04, 2017, 02:51:19 PM »
Suppose you're right and "hydrogen" is the secret power source.
How do you get heat from hydrogen?
Engine and batteries.
Are you talking about fuel cells, the sort of equipment found in hydrogen-powered cars?  We can talk about that, if it's what you mean.

Where do you store that quantity of hydrogen on a submarine without the crew knowing it's there?
You store some and make the rest on the fly.
"Making" hydrogen is done by electrolysis of water, splitting the H2 from the O.  This requires you to spend energy.  In fact since there is no such thing as a perfect energy conversion process, it actually requires you to spend MORE energy than what you're eventually going to get out of the hydrogen later.  So now you need a second secret energy source, to power the equipment that makes the hydrogen to power the first secret energy source.

When the boat comes home, how do you reload the hydrogen without the crew knowing you're doing it?
You don't. You simply replenish it by recharging.
See above.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 03:32:42 PM by Sam Hill »

Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #438 on: October 04, 2017, 02:55:59 PM »
Ok scepti so wear is the power coming from? 
Basically so far your argument has been that you don't understand it so it must, absolutely must be fake.
But that power is coming from somewhere.  Where?  What is generating the power needed to run the elements needed to fool people into thinking its nuclear?
Potentially, hydrogen.
How so?  And why fake it at all?

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #439 on: October 05, 2017, 12:38:00 AM »
Suppose you're right and "hydrogen" is the secret power source.
How do you get heat from hydrogen?
Engine and batteries.
Are you talking about fuel cells, the sort of equipment found in hydrogen-powered cars?  We can talk about that, if it's what you mean.

Sort of, yeah.
Don't tell me.....you're and expert with that as well and know it all.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #440 on: October 05, 2017, 12:47:11 AM »
Ok scepti so wear is the power coming from? 
Basically so far your argument has been that you don't understand it so it must, absolutely must be fake.
But that power is coming from somewhere.  Where?  What is generating the power needed to run the elements needed to fool people into thinking its nuclear?
Potentially, hydrogen.
How so?  And why fake it at all?
Why fake anything?
To fake something there has to be a valid reason for doing so.
Large populations of givers in monetary terms, as well as scare tactics are very good starter points.
Sell easily available and virtually inexhaustible, almost environmentally safe energy, as the exact opposite.

Clever isn't it?

*

JackBlack

  • 21706
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #441 on: October 05, 2017, 01:01:49 AM »
Are you talking about fuel cells, the sort of equipment found in hydrogen-powered cars?  We can talk about that, if it's what you mean.
Sort of, yeah.
Don't tell me.....you're and expert with that as well and know it all.
I'm not an expert, but I know a fair deal.
One thing which makes hydrogen fuel cells great and rather attractive as a energy storage medium is that you don't need to take the oxygen with you and can just get it from the air.
But that doesn't work in a sub. For a sub you need to take all the oxygen with you, or you run out of breathable air.

They also aren't that efficient. But assuming 100% efficiency, then for ever 2 molecules of hydrogen and 1 molecule of oxygen you get 1.23V and 4 electrons, or 7.883E-19 J.
So for one mol of oxygen and 2 mol of hydrogen, you get 474 kJ and that produces 2 mols of water, i.e. roughly 18 g of water and 18 g of hydrogen+oxygen.
If you have a reactor running at a mere 10 000 kW (you would need more to compensate for the losses in efficiency of the hydrogen fuel cell, and then more for the "reactor"), that means that every second you are consuming 18 * 10 000 / 474 = 380 g of fuel. In a day you would consume 32.8 tonnes. That is 3.6 tonnes of hydrogen and 29.2 tonnes of oxygen.
Yet you were acting as if the sub could only handle a few kg of nuclear fuel.

So where on the ship are these massive amounts of fuel meant to be stored? The 29.2 tonnes of oxygen works out to be roughly 29.2 kl. The 3.6 tonnes of hydrogen works out to be 51.4 kl.
The ship is only roughly 4 Ml in total (for the USS nautilus).

Then you need to put in the weight and size of the flow cell to generate that much power, which will likely be larger than the ship.
Assuming you managed to liquify it, to take up the least space possible, that

Large populations of givers in monetary terms, as well as scare tactics are very good starter points.
Sell easily available and virtually inexhaustible, almost environmentally safe energy, as the exact opposite.
Clever isn't it?
Nope. If it is easily available and virtually inexhaustible far too many people would be getting their hands on it and using it. Countries would use it to show off and show how much greater they are than other countries.

But perhaps the biggest issue is that you are yet to show this source of easily available and virtually inexhaustible energy.

Until you do, it isn't clever, it is pure stupidity.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 01:04:25 AM by JackBlack »

*

JackBlack

  • 21706
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #442 on: October 05, 2017, 01:12:28 AM »
As an addition, here is one such fuel cell:
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/fuel-cell-stacks/high-power-fuel-cell-stacks/horizon-5000watt-fuel-cell-h-5000

It is 5 kW, so to get the 10 000 kW, you will need 2000 of these.
Each one is 30 kg, so you need another 60 tonnes to store on the sub. It is 48.2 L, so it will take up 96.4 kl.

So that brings the total up to roughly 90 tonnes and 180 kl.

Have fun trying to justify sticking that on a sub just to con the people on the sub.

And remember, that was just for a day, for an old nuclear sub, so it only gets worse for you.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #443 on: October 05, 2017, 01:51:48 AM »

I'm not an expert, but I know a fair deal.
One thing which makes hydrogen fuel cells great and rather attractive as a energy storage medium is that you don't need to take the oxygen with you and can just get it from the air.
But that doesn't work in a sub. For a sub you need to take all the oxygen with you, or you run out of breathable air.


Yet you were acting as if the sub could only handle a few kg of nuclear fuel.

So where on the ship are these massive amounts of fuel meant to be stored? The 29.2 tonnes of oxygen works out to be roughly 29.2 kl. The 3.6 tonnes of hydrogen works out to be 51.4 kl.
The ship is only roughly 4 Ml in total (for the USS nautilus).
No need for massive amounts of storage, except for batteries and a little storage.



Large populations of givers in monetary terms, as well as scare tactics are very good starter points.
Sell easily available and virtually inexhaustible, almost environmentally safe energy, as the exact opposite.
Clever isn't it?
Nope. If it is easily available and virtually inexhaustible far too many people would be getting their hands on it and using it. Countries would use it to show off and show how much greater they are than other countries.
Many people most probably can but if they try and use it. it's more than  possible they will be shut down and classed as criminal or whatever.
We see documented cases of it but the issue is in whether they're a truth or not.



But perhaps the biggest issue is that you are yet to show this source of easily available and virtually inexhaustible energy.

Until you do, it isn't clever, it is pure stupidity.
That's your biggest issue as well. Showing nuclear power.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #444 on: October 05, 2017, 01:53:49 AM »
As an addition, here is one such fuel cell:
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/fuel-cell-stacks/high-power-fuel-cell-stacks/horizon-5000watt-fuel-cell-h-5000

It is 5 kW, so to get the 10 000 kW, you will need 2000 of these.
Each one is 30 kg, so you need another 60 tonnes to store on the sub. It is 48.2 L, so it will take up 96.4 kl.

So that brings the total up to roughly 90 tonnes and 180 kl.

Have fun trying to justify sticking that on a sub just to con the people on the sub.

And remember, that was just for a day, for an old nuclear sub, so it only gets worse for you.
This only what you are reading up on.
None of us know the reality in its entirety as far as I'm concerned, except those that orchestrate it all and shroud it.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #445 on: October 05, 2017, 02:04:26 AM »
None of us know the reality in its entirety as far as I'm concerned, except those that orchestrate it all and shroud it.
So you only believe what you drag out of your deluded mind. Looks like you are totally ignorant and determined to stay that way.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #446 on: October 05, 2017, 02:05:09 AM »
None of us know the reality in its entirety as far as I'm concerned, except those that orchestrate it all and shroud it.
So you only believe what you drag out of your deluded mind. Looks like you are totally ignorant and determined to stay that way.
What is ignorance?

*

JackBlack

  • 21706
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #447 on: October 05, 2017, 02:23:36 AM »
No need for massive amounts of storage, except for batteries and a little storage.
Again, if you don't need to store it, where are you getting it?


Many people most probably can but if they try and use it. it's more than  possible they will be shut down and classed as criminal or whatever.
We see documented cases of it but the issue is in whether they're a truth or not.
Again, you have to deal with competing countries. Or what, was that why we really invaded Iraq?

There have never been well documented cases of it. These conmen avoid documentation because it shows them to be full of shit.

That's your biggest issue as well. Showing nuclear power.
Nope. It has been shown. You ignoring it doesn't mean it hasn't.
Nuclear power plants is one bit of evidence for it (among lots more). You being incapable of providing a viable alternative is another.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #448 on: October 05, 2017, 03:01:20 AM »
No need for massive amounts of storage, except for batteries and a little storage.
Again, if you don't need to store it, where are you getting it?
I'll let you think on that.


That's your biggest issue as well. Showing nuclear power.
Nope. It has been shown. You ignoring it doesn't mean it hasn't.
Ok, no problem.
Tell me how it was shown to you and being exactly what you believed it was?


Nuclear power plants is one bit of evidence for it (among lots more). You being incapable of providing a viable alternative is another.
Saying nuclear power plants is not saying anything other than, nuclear power plants.
Tell me why you KNOW they are nuclear power plants.

Re: This is all a bit absurd.
« Reply #449 on: October 05, 2017, 03:05:31 AM »
No need for massive amounts of storage, except for batteries and a little storage.
Again, if you don't need to store it, where are you getting it?
I'll let you think on that.


That's your biggest issue as well. Showing nuclear power.
Nope. It has been shown. You ignoring it doesn't mean it hasn't.
Ok, no problem.
Tell me how it was shown to you and being exactly what you believed it was?


Nuclear power plants is one bit of evidence for it (among lots more). You being incapable of providing a viable alternative is another.
Saying nuclear power plants is not saying anything other than, nuclear power plants.
Tell me why you KNOW they are nuclear power plants.

"Tell me why you KNOW they are nuclear power plants."

I told you I know it 100% because my grandfather worked in them, he was not a liar and told me a good few facts about them. I know you FE people don't like facts but non the less facts are facts. your denial of information does not make the information wrong it just makes you wrong
FE people have nothing to fear but sphere itself