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Horizons

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JT!

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Horizons
« on: December 20, 2006, 12:10:24 PM »
I had a quick search and it seems the last topic about horizons didn't really go anywhere, and the subject at hand got buried by another subjects.

I live on the coast, and on a clear day I see a very define horizon. If the earth was flat, why can't I see the coast of another country?

I've been from Dover to Calais (the English Channel) and I watched the white cliffs of Dover slowly vanish behind the horizon and see Calais appear in the opposite way. If the earth was flat, why can't I see right across? It's only 40-50 miles or so, on a clear day, it should easily be visible.
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Nomad

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Horizons
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2006, 12:33:04 PM »
Contrary to popular belief, the atmosphere is not transparent.  The more distance between you and another object, the more mass of air is in your way.  This applies to RE or FE, mind you.
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PaRtZ

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Horizons
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2006, 12:45:43 PM »
horizons are actually large posters the GMK have put up for our benefit
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2006, 12:46:29 PM »
Yeah, but if the earth was flat, i wouldn't be able to see a perfectly define and clear horizon. But probably just a gray haze (created by the incrased amount of air that could be seen) and it would be impossible to tell where the sea met the sky.
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Fish

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Horizons
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 01:20:29 PM »
Might be the fact you ride a bike with no seat?
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nderage Thinker.
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GeoGuy

Horizons
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 02:02:26 PM »
Quote from: "JT!"
Yeah, but if the earth was flat, i wouldn't be able to see a perfectly define and clear horizon.


You can't.
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2006, 02:09:39 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Quote from: "JT!"
Yeah, but if the earth was flat, i wouldn't be able to see a perfectly define and clear horizon.


You can't.


Well, yeah the idea is i'm looking for an explenation from someone who belives the earth is flat.
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GeoGuy

Horizons
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2006, 02:19:32 PM »
Quote from: "JT!"


Well, yeah the idea is i'm looking for an explenation from someone who belives the earth is flat.

Belief in either theory is irrelevant here, even from an RE perspective, there is no "easily defined horizon".
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2006, 02:37:13 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Quote from: "JT!"


Well, yeah the idea is i'm looking for an explenation from someone who belives the earth is flat.

Belief in either theory is irrelevant here, even from an RE perspective, there is no "easily defined horizon".


How can belief not matter on a forum that is dedicated to the belief that the earth is flat.

And there's is an easily defined horizon so long as it's a clear day.
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GeoGuy

Horizons
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2006, 02:43:34 PM »
Quote from: "JT!"


How can belief not matter on a forum that is dedicated to the belief that the earth is flat.

I meant that belief in either theory is irrelevant regarding this question particular.
Quote
And there's is an easily defined horizon so long as it's a clear day.

My personal observations have shown me otherwise.
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2006, 02:50:20 PM »
Well, the question is asking a FE beliver why we have a horizon.

A RE ebeliver would just say "Yeah good point".

So, weather your a RE or FE beliver does matter.

The horizon is where the darker blue meets the lighter blue.



As seen in that pic, a perfectly defined line.  :)
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GeoGuy

Horizons
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2006, 03:02:03 PM »
Ah, I see what you're referring to now.
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 03:04:41 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Ah, I see what you're referring to now.


What did you think i was refering to?

Also, do u belive we live on a RE or a FE?
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GeoGuy

Horizons
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2006, 03:11:43 PM »
Quote from: "JT!"

What did you think i was refering to?

This. As it has been shown countless times that this is not visisble from high altitudes.

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Also, do u belive we live on a RE or a FE?

RE.
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2006, 03:49:01 PM »
How does that differ from the pic i posted?
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GeoGuy

Horizons
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2006, 03:51:31 PM »
It shows what appears to be curvature, but what is in fact a simple trick of the camera.
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2006, 06:48:03 PM »
Ok.

Still looking forward to hear from someone that thinks it's flat, any takers?
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TannerAK

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Horizons
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2006, 06:52:37 PM »
Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"
Contrary to popular belief, the atmosphere is not transparent.  The more distance between you and another object, the more mass of air is in your way.  This applies to RE or FE, mind you.


The more mass of air?

Maybe greenhouse gases, my friend, but air is invisible.  When viewing the ocean, what's blocking your view is the humidity and evaporating/condensing water.
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TannerAK

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Horizons
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2006, 06:53:12 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
It shows what appears to be curvature, but what is in fact a simple trick of the camera.


What is your proof of this?

I swear you conspirators just make up sh*t so your story works.
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JT!

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Horizons
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2006, 07:00:18 PM »
Actually he's a non-beliver. He's just very open minded like myself.

You can get different kinds of lenes that will have that kind of effect, but i don't think anything is used in that photo - however, you can't see the curvature of the earth in that pic, even though it seems like it.
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XenneX

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Horizons
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 03:03:41 AM »
This. As it has been shown countless times that this is not visisble from high altitudes.
[/quote]

So you can't see a curve eh?
Go on MS Paint, and draw a straight line going across that horizon.



You can see where the horizon goes over the line slightly.

If there is no 'curve of the Earth', then what is that?
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PaRtZ

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Horizons
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 03:33:53 AM »
Quote



You can see where the horizon goes over the line slightly.

If there is no 'curve of the Earth', then what is that?


obviously that line is NOT straight at all... ;)
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XenneX

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Horizons
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 03:35:34 AM »
But it is..I held shift on Paint and everything...  :wink:
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GeoGuy

Horizons
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2006, 07:19:40 AM »
XenneX, please don't tell me you actually believe Earth's curvature is visible from such low altitudes. The people in the picture are less than 500' above sea level.

I suppose you think that this is a picture of Earth's curvature also:

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xDaveyx

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Horizons
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2006, 07:35:40 AM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
XenneX, please don't tell me you actually believe Earth's curvature is visible from such low altitudes. The people in the picture are less than 500' above sea level.

I suppose you think that this is a picture of Earth's curvature also:



I really don't understand you, you believe the earth is spherical yet you try and disprove it, I don't get it?
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Wolfwood

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Horizons
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2006, 07:37:41 AM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
XenneX, please don't tell me you actually believe Earth's curvature is visible from such low altitudes. The people in the picture are less than 500' above sea level.

I suppose you think that this is a picture of Earth's curvature also:



That curvature would indicate that the earth was so small that boat could circle it twice in as many minutes :p

There is a SLIGHT curvature at 500 feet, barely noticeable in that picture but it is there. Get a wide enough shot at 5 feet above ground level of the horizon and you could pick out a curvature using the same method.

Something I just now noticed is that the view of the ocen, the waves appear to get smaller and the texture shifts the further out you go with your eyes. This same illussion occurs on any relatively calm ocean view and indicates that your view of the water is infact sliding down and away from you at a very slow rate. Just an observation.
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coddy

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Horizons
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2006, 07:47:34 AM »
Quote from: "XenneX"
This. As it has been shown countless times that this is not visisble from high altitudes.


So you can't see a curve eh?
Go on MS Paint, and draw a straight line going across that horizon.



You can see where the horizon goes over the line slightly.

If there is no 'curve of the Earth', then what is that?[/quote]


There is a very simple explanation for this due to perspective...

Think about when you go out to sea in a boat, so you cannot see nothing but water. You look around you, what shape is the horizon? a circle. the curve you see is simply caused by this effect
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Wolfwood

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Horizons
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2006, 07:51:24 AM »
Quote from: "coddy"
Quote from: "XenneX"
This. As it has been shown countless times that this is not visisble from high altitudes.

So you can't see a curve eh?
Go on MS Paint, and draw a straight line going across that horizon.



You can see where the horizon goes over the line slightly.

If there is no 'curve of the Earth', then what is that?



There is a very simple explanation for this due to perspective...

Think about when you go out to sea in a boat, so you cannot see nothing but water. You look around you, what shape is the horizon? a circle. the curve you see is simply caused by this effect


Good point.

At higher altitudes you would start to see the curve as it becomes more pronounced. Just like the distence of to the horizon extends the higher up you are, as you gain altitude, the horizon grows farther and farther away. Eventually you get to such a hight where you can't see any further then the horizon, by this point you can see half the world's surface. This is ofcourse on an RE model.

On an FE model, your potential viewing distence would be limitless, like the surface of the moon or another planet, you would see the entire surface of the earth.
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coddy

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Horizons
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2006, 07:58:10 AM »
Ah yes, but i could get technical about it and say that you will never be able to see half of the RE  :)
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antheman40k was right when he said that Seriously was right when he said that Phaseshifter was right when he said Watttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.
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Wolfwood

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Horizons
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2006, 08:02:19 AM »
Quote from: "coddy"
Ah yes, but i could get technical about it and say that you will never be able to see half of the RE  :)


From a high enough distence and baring weather and atmospheric phenomenon, you could actually.

After all, the sun does see ALMOST half of the RE model at any point in time...
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