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midgard

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One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« on: December 20, 2006, 04:14:24 AM »
There seems to be some confusion with Round Earthers that there is a problem with the magnetic poles in Flat Earth Theory. No doubt this confusion is increased by the FAQ section on unanswered questions.

Quote from: "FAQ"
Unanswered

Q: Explain magnetism is there is no South pole.


It is impossible to answer that quesiton as it is loaded. The question makes the assumption that Flat Earth has no South Pole: this is false. It is true that while the North Pole is located in the same location as it is on Round Earth, the South Pole is not located anwhere along the Ice Wall (or "Antarctica"). The South Pole is located on the underside of the earth, the surface of the earth is only affected by one of the poles.

I know Round Earthers have problems visualising things so here is a picture to give you a rough idea:



The paper does not represent the entire Flat Earth, merely the top/surface of it. There is no way of knowing what the underside of Flat Earth looks like or how "deep" it is. Here's a "cutaway" of Flat Earth I did myself showing the affect and a "conical" underside:


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coddy

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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2006, 04:16:28 AM »
On that picture, you have simply cut off the magnetism lines at a point where they resemble what you want them too...

Without the paper, they would continue and join with the other end of the magnet. This is because with a north pole, there must be a south. Where is the south on FE?
antheman40k was right when he said that Seriously was right when he said that Phaseshifter was right when he said Watttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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midgard

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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2006, 04:18:13 AM »
Do you have a problem reading? It's on the underside of Flat Earth.

Quote from: "I"
The South Pole is located on the underside of the earth...

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midgard

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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2006, 04:21:22 AM »
Quote from: "coddy"
Without the paper, they would continue and join with the other end of the magnet.


That's the whole point of the picture. It demonstrates that you can have a flat surface (like the paper) and have the magnetic fields directing compasses (the iron filings) towards the centre of said surface.

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coddy

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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 04:32:27 AM »
So your new model for flat earth is a disc where we live, with a bar magnet style thing underneath?
antheman40k was right when he said that Seriously was right when he said that Phaseshifter was right when he said Watttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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midgard

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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 04:34:35 AM »
Do you think there's a magnetic bar thing through the earth???

No, my "new" model for flat earth is that it is more like a cone. Did you think it was like a pancake? The part we live on is (relatively) flat, hence why we call it Flat Earth. The magnetic "bar" runs through the centre of this cone.

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coddy

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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2006, 04:50:34 AM »
That is what i meant. Sorry if it was inadequately explained
antheman40k was right when he said that Seriously was right when he said that Phaseshifter was right when he said Watttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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midgard

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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2006, 04:53:26 AM »
I understand that you don't believe it but does that adequately explain the magnetic poles of the earth for you?

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coddy

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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2006, 04:56:28 AM »
Thats possibly the most empathetic thing ive heard any FE'er say on here. So thankyou.

And no i dont believe it, but its certainly plausible
antheman40k was right when he said that Seriously was right when he said that Phaseshifter was right when he said Watttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2006, 08:47:13 AM »
If you have no idea what'S on the underside, how do you know there's a pole there?
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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midgard

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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2006, 08:47:54 AM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"
If you have no idea what'S on the underside, how do you know there's a pole there?


I don't know for certain, it's speculation. Where else would the pole be on a flat earth?

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coddy

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« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2006, 08:48:32 AM »
Because if there is a south pole (magnetic north), there must be a north pole (magnetic south).
antheman40k was right when he said that Seriously was right when he said that Phaseshifter was right when he said Watttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 07:21:47 PM »
Quote from: "coddy"
Thats possibly the most empathetic thing ive heard any FE'er say on here. So thankyou.

And no i dont believe it, but its certainly plausible
Empathetic? I'm not exactly sure how that relates to feelings and emotions, but if you say so...


I want to bring up that not all magnets are bars. Magnets can be in many shapes and sizes, including flat circles. Here's a nice picture of a round magnet for you:


I'd show you a picture of it with filings on it, but I don't have any at this time. I'll probably go buy some just so I can take a picture of a flat round magnet with the filings on it. Just because the earth isn't a bar doesn't mean it can't have a magnetic field.
he Engineer is not a douchebag.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein

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coddy

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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2006, 05:50:49 AM »
Quote from: "Fredrick"
Empathetic? I'm not exactly sure how that relates to feelings and emotions, but if you say so...


I want to bring up that not all magnets are bars. Magnets can be in many shapes and sizes, including flat circles. Here's a nice picture of a round magnet for you:


I'd show you a picture of it with filings on it, but I don't have any at this time. I'll probably go buy some just so I can take a picture of a flat round magnet with the filings on it. Just because the earth isn't a bar doesn't mean it can't have a magnetic field.



Empathetic was a perfectly reasonable word to use...i think, i meant that he simply showed an understanding that i could believe something other than him. Which is empathy... Hmm. Anyway:

Well, yes they can be many shapes, but i really meant to make the point that the other pole would have to be directly below the surface of the FE.
For example, it could not be a horseshoe magnet shape.
The magnet in your picture - in effect - behaves the same as a very short and wide bar magnet. They both would have their poles on either side.
 :) I just used the term bar magnet very loosely
antheman40k was right when he said that Seriously was right when he said that Phaseshifter was right when he said Watttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2006, 07:18:31 AM »
Your flat earth is getting chubbier every day - perhaps there won't be anything to talk about soon.
eel free to correct my language, thanks.

But if there aren't arguments there is ... THE CONSPIRACY! That's a practical little thing...

"In the grand scheme of things, those with the prettiest pictures will win." (Seriously)

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2006, 07:35:20 AM »
All this demonstration shows is how the compass works on an FE model. How would this work for a real magnetic field though? I don't think the northern lights would be limited to the north either, with a magnetic field like this...

I also wonder if it really is possible to use a horseshoe magnet, but more like  one of those cakes in the shape of a ring? So the middle and rim juts up. COULD a magnet like that function?
Quote from: BOGWarrior89

I'm giving you five points for that one


One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2006, 09:25:58 AM »
I would contend that "paper over a magnet" model does not adequately explain the problem. We know that the strength of the Earth's magnetic field does not vary at the same altitude at any given point on the Earth's surface. This model fails to explain that.

This claim is testable all on your own, by the way. Take a compass and any magnet for which you know the magnetic dipole moment for said magnet (probably not something you have lying around the kitchen but you get the idea).

You can easily perform this experiment, in reverse, solving for the Earth's magnetic field strength. http://www.frontiernet.net/~jlkeefer/magstren.htm

(EDIT: You can also do this by simply saying your kitchen magnet has magnetic dipole moment of strength 1. Your answer will now be the Earth's magnetic field relative to the strength of your magnet, but the following argument still holds true.)

Take it a step further and use significantly more accurate measurements (rather than looking at a compass use a known current flowing through a wire, for example) and you will find that, upon accounting for differences in elevation, the Earth's magnetic field appears to be a constant.

Why is this inconsistant with Flat Earth Theory? Lets look at two possible models:

1) The Earth is a flat disk floating through space all on its lonesome, with the north pole at the center of the disk and the south pole at any arbitrary distance directly beneath it.

This gives a varying field strength for the Earth because as you move the compass along the surface of the Earth you are moving a different radius from the center of the bar magnet (a somewhat crude approximation, but still accurate enough for this exercise).

2) The Earth is a flat surface that is some part of any other arbitrary shaped surface that has a magnetic field.

This will still give a varying magnetic field strength along the Earth's surface because (for example) if the Earth was the flat surface of a cube (imagine the wall of ice being a circle inscribed in the square surface) the field strength would still change to account for a change in distance from the center of the magnetic dipole moment along the surface of the cube.

Note that this measurement also precludes the possibility of the entire disk being the face of a magnet because this would always yield a field direction of upward whereas here it is measured to be pointing towards the center of the "disk" (according to a FE'er) or towards the north pole of the spherical Earth (according to a RE'er). If you wish to say that perhaps the north and south poles are not on the flat edges of the disk but on the circular edges, 1) You're contradicting your own theory and failing to explain alot of other phenomena 2) You would still measure a changing field strength.
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

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TheEngineer

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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2006, 10:51:46 AM »
Quote from: "EagleFalconn"
We know that the strength of the Earth's magnetic field does not vary at the same altitude at any given point on the Earth's surface.

The field varies by as much as 100% at various points on the surface of the earth.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2006, 10:54:26 AM »
Please provide a citation and specify -- does this account for changes in altitude? I didn't bother to cite that assertion above because it is relatively common knowledge among RE'ers. Would you like me to provide citation, or would you dismiss it since it would inevitably come from an RE scientific source?
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2006, 06:58:40 PM »
Bump.
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2006, 06:28:09 PM »
Bump
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

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TheEngineer

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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2006, 11:13:50 PM »
The field strength is less than 30 microteslas throughout most of South America and South Africa.  It increases to more than 60 microteslas in parts of Siberia, just south of Australia, and in northern Canada.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2006, 07:52:50 PM »
Well, yeah, it does. And if you'd bothered to post the entire quote from your source (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field) you'd see why:

Quote
The strength of the field at the Earth's surface ranges from less than 30 microteslas (0.3 gauss) in an area including most of South America and South Africa to over 60 microteslas (0.6 gauss) around the magnetic poles in northern Canada and south of Australia, and in part of Siberia.


The parts of the earth that have a weaker field strength are further away from the maxima of those fields (the poles). The effect you are describing here is well within the theory and experiment I proposed earlier.

However, you have pointed out a hole in what I said earlier, stating that the Earth's magnetic field would be constant. Thats not true. Taking the example of a bar magnet, the strength of the field varies based on distance from the poles. At some point I made an approximation about assuming the Earth's magnetic field was emmited from the center of the Earth and forgot to drop that approximation later.

However, these variations are still within predicable and accountable for range. In fact, they even give you a new method of verification regarding the shape of the earth: you can use the field strength measured from wherever you are to determine the distance from the pole which will differ between theories.
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2007, 02:56:15 PM »
bump
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2007, 05:12:31 PM »


How does the aurora australis work?
It's quite remarkable really that both Israel and Palestine have no qualms about slaughtering the crap out of each other - but they are perfectly willing to work together jovially and hide a secret that wouldn't make much difference to the world. -rdethgy

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« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2007, 08:39:49 PM »
Bump.
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2007, 01:43:49 PM »
Bump
ositions on the earth shall forever be determined by spherical coordinates, not polar.

www.lost.eu/13b66

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Jutsu

One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2007, 02:57:51 PM »
You're saying that the magnetism that directs compasses is in the center of the disc (the disc meaning earth? If so, why does a compass continue to point in the same direction after passing the center instead of turning around?

Re: One "Unanswered" Question Answered
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2007, 07:55:49 AM »
The question makes the assumption that Flat Earth has no South Pole: this is false. It is true that while the North Pole is located in the same location as it is on Round Earth, the South Pole is not located anwhere along the Ice Wall (or "Antarctica"). The South Pole is located on the underside of the earth, the surface of the earth is only affected by one of the poles.




So how come there is an aurora borealis AND australis?