How many FE'rs are seriously on a quest to prove spherical realists wrong?

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As in, traveling to Antarctica to video record the "ice walls" and the "edge" of the disk...

Or taking a private high-altitude flight in space or near-space?

Or getting a weather balloon with a GoPro to record the Earth from 37,000 meters above?

What's stopping them from proving their own theory to be correct? They have this opportunity to prove the spherical realists wrong, and making the world accept their theory as truth.

So far it's only people typing untested hypotheses on the Internet, or doing interviews giving their untested hypotheses.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:46:03 PM by December 7, 1972 »

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Crutchwater

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I see so many flatties that say they absolutely KNOW that the Earth is flat. Some of them can post page after page of data that they say confirms the flat Earth.

Showing proof of this would be no less than the most important discovery in modern history. Fame and Fortune awaits! Guaranteed to garner the Nobel Prize.
Your name would forever dominate the history books. You would single handedly take down NASA, and all the other space agencies across the plane.

If I was in possession of such knowledge, I would dedicate my entire life to breaking this news.

Honestly, what could be more important?

Stand up, BE HEARD! Take your place in WORLD HISTORY!!!
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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Well leaving aside how high-altitude flights are beyond the means of most people, and how various models don't have an ice wall or edge, there are several FE users that claim to have done such experiments. JRowe's the one that stands out, offhand, claiming both to have flown past Antarctica and to have tried the gopro experiment (with amusing results)

Some of them can post page after page of data that they say confirms the flat Earth.

Showing proof of this would be no less than the most important discovery in modern history.

Stand up, BE HEARD! Take your place in WORLD HISTORY!!!
I think this post pretty clearly demonstrates the whole problem with this line of discussion.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Well leaving aside how high-altitude flights are beyond the means of most people, and how various models don't have an ice wall or edge, there are several FE users that claim to have done such experiments. JRowe's the one that stands out, offhand, claiming both to have flown past Antarctica and to have tried the gopro experiment (with amusing results)

Some of them can post page after page of data that they say confirms the flat Earth.

Showing proof of this would be no less than the most important discovery in modern history.

Stand up, BE HEARD! Take your place in WORLD HISTORY!!!
I think this post pretty clearly demonstrates the whole problem with this line of discussion.

Beyond the means of most people? Well considering how earth shattering the results would be if confirmed fiat and supposedly the growing number of flat earthers including multi millionaires like Shaq, why hasn't an independently crowd funded trip taken place? Shaq could even afford it himself - I saw his house on MTV Cribs. If I believed in Flat Earth I'd dedicate my time and efforts to prove it, I'd do anything I could possibly think of. What I wouldn't do is post memes on Facebook, watch YouTube and bicker on forums.

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Crutchwater

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Well leaving aside how high-altitude flights are beyond the means of most people, and how various models don't have an ice wall or edge, there are several FE users that claim to have done such experiments. JRowe's the one that stands out, offhand, claiming both to have flown past Antarctica and to have tried the gopro experiment (with amusing results)

Some of them can post page after page of data that they say confirms the flat Earth.

Showing proof of this would be no less than the most important discovery in modern history.

Stand up, BE HEARD! Take your place in WORLD HISTORY!!!
I think this post pretty clearly demonstrates the whole problem with this line of discussion.

What is the problem with this line of discussion?

Early explorers risked life and limb to prove their theories.
Why should such an important discovery be sidelined? Because you'd rather just argue it on the internet?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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markjo

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Well leaving aside how high-altitude flights are beyond the means of most people...
Have you ever heard of KickStarter?  IndieGoGo?  Crowd funding in general?  Research grants?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

This looks quite cheap - any Flat Earthers in the UK try this yet?

http://sentintospace.com/

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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Beyond the means of most people? Well considering how earth shattering the results would be if confirmed fiat and supposedly the growing number of flat earthers including multi millionaires like Shaq, why hasn't an independently crowd funded trip taken place? Shaq could even afford it himself - I saw his house on MTV Cribs. If I believed in Flat Earth I'd dedicate my time and efforts to prove it, I'd do anything I could possibly think of. What I wouldn't do is post memes on Facebook, watch YouTube and bicker on forums.
Shaq as in the guy who said "I'm joking, you idiots," then? With the number of celebrities who mention FET as a quip that the media runs with, or as a publicity stunt, it's hard to pinpoint any that do believe. And if any genuinely do and have the money, well, ask them.
As for crowdfunding, you do realise that you've gone from insisting FEers crowdfund to decrying them for being active in environments that encourage community? You can't crowdfund anything until there's a thriving, interested group.

What is the problem with this line of discussion?
The problem is you going from talking about FEers giving pages and pages of data they claim as proof of FET, to complaining they don't offer any evidence of FET.
That's the issue when you get down to it; no one cares. It is a bit silly to make all these over-the-top demands of FEers when no one, including you, would care the slightest bit about the results. Imagine an FEer started posting on this forum about a trip to Antarctica where they could not cross it and they post photos like this:

Would you care? Would that convince you? Would that convince anyone?

Instead of making demands like that, take a moment to think about what it would actually take for them to provide something anyone would be interested in.

High altitude photo? How would you confirm it was an altitude you'd even expect to see curvature, and how would you do away with lens-related issues?
Flight to space? Would you take their word for it if they talked about being asked to sign the Official Secrets Act or whatever the US version is, or if they said they saw no curvature?

They aren't FEers for your benefit. You need to provide something that's both remotely possible and serves an actual purpose. The only thing I can think of would be for them to provide a hypothetically possible FE model; that can be developed, that could most likely be tested, that would be of genuine interest. And that? It takes all the forum and youtube and online discussion you're mocking.


Research grants?
Yes I'm sure organisations are just lining up with grants for someone investigating whether or not the Earth is flat.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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markjo

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Research grants?
Yes I'm sure organisations are just lining up with grants for someone investigating whether or not the Earth is flat.
Well, the FE movement seems to picking up steam, so you might want to get in early before the field becomes saturated with researchers looking for grants.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Shaq as in the guy who said "I'm joking, you idiots," then? With the number of celebrities who mention FET as a quip that the media runs with, or as a publicity stunt, it's hard to pinpoint any that do believe. And if any genuinely do and have the money, well, ask them.
As for crowdfunding, you do realise that you've gone from insisting FEers crowdfund to decrying them for being active in environments that encourage community? You can't crowdfund anything until there's a thriving, interested group.

I didn't realise Shaq back tracked - what a knob, if it was a joke then I don't get it?

I thought there was an ever increasing and thriving group of people "waking up" to flat earth? But I guess what is perceived as a group is more a distributed collective of ideas that attempting to harnessing would be a challenge at present. I take your point - I am trying to stop being so smug about my globe earth stance so apologies if anything I say came across as decrying.

Well leaving aside how high-altitude flights are beyond the means of most people, and how various models don't have an ice wall or edge, there are several FE users that claim to have done such experiments. JRowe's the one that stands out, offhand, claiming both to have flown past Antarctica and to have tried the gopro experiment (with amusing results)

Some of them can post page after page of data that they say confirms the flat Earth.

Showing proof of this would be no less than the most important discovery in modern history.

Stand up, BE HEARD! Take your place in WORLD HISTORY!!!
I think this post pretty clearly demonstrates the whole problem with this line of discussion.

Beyond the means of most people? Well considering how earth shattering the results would be if confirmed fiat and supposedly the growing number of flat earthers including multi millionaires like Shaq, why hasn't an independently crowd funded trip taken place? Shaq could even afford it himself - I saw his house on MTV Cribs. If I believed in Flat Earth I'd dedicate my time and efforts to prove it, I'd do anything I could possibly think of. What I wouldn't do is post memes on Facebook, watch YouTube and bicker on forums.


Shaq has since admitted he was trolling & joking around, and has since stated that the Earth is round.

Flat Eather conspiracy theorists of course took this to mean that some government entity, like NASA, or perhaps the "Illuminati", intimidated & threatened Shaq to change his story and keep quiet about it.

Kyrie Irving however is another story. The verdict is open on whether he's serious or trolling. I tend to think he's serious.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:50:59 PM by December 7, 1972 »

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Crutchwater

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  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Beyond the means of most people? Well considering how earth shattering the results would be if confirmed fiat and supposedly the growing number of flat earthers including multi millionaires like Shaq, why hasn't an independently crowd funded trip taken place? Shaq could even afford it himself - I saw his house on MTV Cribs. If I believed in Flat Earth I'd dedicate my time and efforts to prove it, I'd do anything I could possibly think of. What I wouldn't do is post memes on Facebook, watch YouTube and bicker on forums.
Shaq as in the guy who said "I'm joking, you idiots," then? With the number of celebrities who mention FET as a quip that the media runs with, or as a publicity stunt, it's hard to pinpoint any that do believe. And if any genuinely do and have the money, well, ask them.
As for crowdfunding, you do realise that you've gone from insisting FEers crowdfund to decrying them for being active in environments that encourage community? You can't crowdfund anything until there's a thriving, interested group.

What is the problem with this line of discussion?
The problem is you going from talking about FEers giving pages and pages of data they claim as proof of FET, to complaining they don't offer any evidence of FET.
That's the issue when you get down to it; no one cares. It is a bit silly to make all these over-the-top demands of FEers when no one, including you, would care the slightest bit about the results. Imagine an FEer started posting on this forum about a trip to Antarctica where they could not cross it and they post photos like this:

Would you care? Would that convince you? Would that convince anyone?

Instead of making demands like that, take a moment to think about what it would actually take for them to provide something anyone would be interested in.

High altitude photo? How would you confirm it was an altitude you'd even expect to see curvature, and how would you do away with lens-related issues?
Flight to space? Would you take their word for it if they talked about being asked to sign the Official Secrets Act or whatever the US version is, or if they said they saw no curvature?

They aren't FEers for your benefit. You need to provide something that's both remotely possible and serves an actual purpose. The only thing I can think of would be for them to provide a hypothetically possible FE model; that can be developed, that could most likely be tested, that would be of genuine interest. And that? It takes all the forum and youtube and online discussion you're mocking.


Research grants?
Yes I'm sure organisations are just lining up with grants for someone investigating whether or not the Earth is flat.

Tell me...

Do you deny that proving to every human being that the Earth was flat, would be the biggest news in history?
I know you don't believe it is, but there are those that do.
Nobel awaits. Get out of your basement, Do this thing! Claim the Prize!


I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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...proving to every human being...
Do this thing!
How?

Your demand's a bit silly if you can't even answer that.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Do you deny that proving to every human being that the Earth was flat, would be the biggest news in history?
I know you don't believe it is, but there are those that do.
Nobel awaits. Get out of your basement, Do this thing! Claim the Prize!

Concept of a nobel prize for really proving flat earth is hilarious. It'd be more like a youtube video with 15,000 views and 70% downvotes.

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Crutchwater

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...proving to every human being...
Do this thing!
How?

Your demand's a bit silly if you can't even answer that.

I'm not demanding anything.

You read these forums, just like I do.

There are some VERY tenacious flat Earth believers here. Don't you think they owe it to THEMSELVES?

I'm sure it won't be easy, but they'll NEVER prove anything from behind a monitor.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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Again:

How?

Your demand's a bit silly if you can't even answer that.


If you can't even say how what you're asking is possible, don't ask for it. Simple.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

*

Crutchwater

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  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Do you deny that proving to every human being that the Earth was flat, would be the biggest news in history?
I know you don't believe it is, but there are those that do.
Nobel awaits. Get out of your basement, Do this thing! Claim the Prize!

Concept of a nobel prize for really proving flat earth is hilarious. It'd be more like a youtube video with 15,000 views and 70% downvotes.

You would ABSOLUTELY receive a Nobel...

Proving flat Earth would also break open the worldwide conspiracy, and confirm the NASA "hoax"
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Crutchwater

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  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Again:

How?

Your demand's a bit silly if you can't even answer that.


If you can't even say how what you're asking is possible, don't ask for it. Simple.

If you can't prove the Earth is flat, then, I don't know, maybe shut the hell up about it?

I can't tell you how, because it's all bullshit, you can't prove something that just isn't true.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

As in, traveling to Antarctica to video record the "ice walls" and the "edge" of the disk...

Or taking a private high-altitude flight in space or near-space?

Or getting a weather balloon with a GoPro to record the Earth from 37,000 meters above?

What's stopping them from proving their own theory to be correct? They have this opportunity to prove the spherical realists wrong, and making the world accept their theory as truth.

So far it's only people typing untested hypotheses on the Internet, or doing interviews giving their untested hypotheses.

Are you familiar with an app called YOUTUBE.

Lol.

You Heliocentrics fool no one with your pathetic theatrics.

Your Strange Heliocentric Religion is False.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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If you can't prove the Earth is flat, then, I don't know, maybe shut the hell up about it?

I can't tell you how, because it's all bullshit, you can't prove something that just isn't true.
I can tell you how they'd be able to prove the Earth's flat, easily: by talking about it, by developing models, by developing predictions. You know, the kind of thing that can only be done by sitting at a computer and conversing with other people all around the world.

You're the one specifically claiming there's some Nobel-winning path. (And, as a side note, also the one who previously said FEers have pages of what they claim as evidence, which you seem to be now pretending doesn't exist, demonstrating my objection pretty plainly).
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

All you need to do is audit NASA. They already tried to go to space and failed.
NASA knows that they've been lying to the public.
Government should not fund their fake science any more and save tax money.

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Crutchwater

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All you need to do is audit NASA. They already tried to go to space and failed.
NASA knows that they've been lying to the public.
Government should not fund their fake science any more and save tax money.

Proof of these allegations, please.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

One proof is gyroscope. If you fly from US to Far East, axis of gyroscope should change by 90 degrees on globe earth, but never see such a thing.

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rabinoz

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One proof is gyroscope. If you fly from US to Far East, axis of gyroscope should change by 90 degrees on globe earth, but never see such a thing.
If you had a suffiently stable, hysteresis free gyroscope it would! But you flat earthers continue to p,ay with little toys and pretend that they should be able to measure the curve and rotation - get real!

I advise you to stay clear of gyroscopes because there are now some so precise that they not only detect the rotation,  but can measure slight wobbles in the earth's axis of rotation.

Go and get something like this, though it might blow the budget or you aren't making an inertial navigation unit or similar!
Here is a "Ring Laser Gyroscope" that will certainly measure the earth's rotation.
Honeywell, GG1320AN Digital Ring Laser Gyroscope

This one has a "drift" that would do very well: Angular Random Walk (ARW) 0.0035 deg/hour (typical).
Angular Random Walk means that in the absence of any movement,  after an hour it will typically show 0.0035.

But a cheapy gyroscope has too much of friction and too much drift to show the earth's rotation. If that was all that was needed:
  • Why would the original ships gyro-compasses be large precision devices?

  • Why would the early gyro-theodolites have used floating gyroscopes to avoid any bearing friction.
Quote
Description:  The instrument pictured on the right is typically used by the military. Their principal application is in mining, tunnelling and gunnery, but in conventional surface surveys they can be used to provide initial orientation, in place of magnetic bearings or astronomical azimuths.
The instrument shown on the right is referred to as a 'gyro-theodolite'. It basically consists of a gyroscope attached to the bottom of a Hilger & Watts micrometer theodolite. The gyroscope enables the direction of true north to be determined with a standard error of about 15" within a very short time. The instrument shown below is a 'meridian indicator' (also known as a Precision Indicator of the Meridian) which is connected to the gyroscope and includes external connection to the power supply. It is basically a meter graduated directly in angular units, and the reading is thus a maximum when the gyro is pointing north and a minimum when it is pointing east or west.
The theodolite remains permanently attached to the gyro assembly. The gyroscope unit is suspended in vertical gimbals, which lie in the line defined by the downward extension of the (permanently) attached theodolite. The actual gyroscope is floated in liquid, and it is called a floating gyroscope to distinguish it from the pendulous type in which the gyroscope unit is suspended and hangs under gravity.

History &
comments
  Any solid body, undergoing any rotation can generally be considered as being a gyro. Its fundamental characteristics are its inertia and its precession (directional change due to external moments acting on its rotational axis).
                 
From: UNSW, GYRO-THEODOLITE
These instruments rely on the earth's rotation to find true north - the Gyro-Theodolite to within 15 minutes or arc in a short time.

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markjo

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All you need to do is audit NASA. They already tried to go to space and failed.
NASA is already audited quite regularly.
https://oig.nasa.gov/audits/reports/FY17/index.html
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

If you can't prove the Earth is flat, then, I don't know, maybe shut the hell up about it?

I can't tell you how, because it's all bullshit, you can't prove something that just isn't true.
I can tell you how they'd be able to prove the Earth's flat, easily: by talking about it, by developing models, by developing predictions. You know, the kind of thing that can only be done by sitting at a computer and conversing with other people all around the world.

You're the one specifically claiming there's some Nobel-winning path. (And, as a side note, also the one who previously said FEers have pages of what they claim as evidence, which you seem to be now pretending doesn't exist, demonstrating my objection pretty plainly).

You are perhaps the most boring contrarian on the internet. You seem to have a problem with every thread a RE'er makes, regardless of the content (see your absurd objections to observable red shifting, for example).

Yawn.

No FE'er will ever take the time to fully develop a model (before you object with "non-euclidean!!", no, that's not a model; it's round earth+non-euclidean=flat earth- it will never be developed beyond that) , so all we are left with is idle chatter on one or two forums. It's hardly controversial to say that it is rather beyond their (even collective) abilities.

They're not FE'ers because they're smart, educated and knowledgeable, after all.

Some of what the OP suggested, however, isn't beyond their means and might actually produce usable data/evidence. But nah, FE'ers would rather just do what you suggest: cocoon themselves in echo chambers and have a circle jerk, whining about how unfair it is that the feckless masses are so stupid and ignorant whilst they bounce around bullshit ideas in YT videos they share with each other.

Yea, seems much more productive, you're right  ::)

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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You seem to have a problem with every thread a RE'er makes, regardless of the content (see your absurd objections to observable red shifting, for example).
There are plenty of threads I haven't touched. I just typically only post in threads where I have something to say, and I don't count chiming in with a "You're right, FET is wrong," as any kind of addition.

Quote
Some of what the OP suggested, however, isn't beyond their means and might actually produce usable data/evidence.
Ok, which would you say was a) usable, and b) you'd believe if an FEer provided it.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Sentinel

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You seem to have a problem with every thread a RE'er makes, regardless of the content (see your absurd objections to observable red shifting, for example).
There are plenty of threads I haven't touched. I just typically only post in threads where I have something to say, and I don't count chiming in with a "You're right, FET is wrong," as any kind of addition.

Quote
Some of what the OP suggested, however, isn't beyond their means and might actually produce usable data/evidence.
Ok, which would you say was a) usable, and b) you'd believe if an FEer provided it.

Would love to see you in one of the countless eclipse threads, though.
Just wonder why you wouldn't show up there even once?  ???
"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

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Crutchwater

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  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
One proof is gyroscope. If you fly from US to Far East, axis of gyroscope should change by 90 degrees on globe earth, but never see such a thing.

Yeah, go ahead and open that can of worms!


You said this:

Quote
All you need to do is audit NASA. They already tried to go to space and failed.
NASA knows that they've been lying to the public.
Government should not fund their fake science any more and save tax money."

Prove to us that they failed to "go to space".
Prove to us that "they've been lying to the public".
Tell us what you mean by "fake science".
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 12330
You seem to have a problem with every thread a RE'er makes, regardless of the content (see your absurd objections to observable red shifting, for example).
There are plenty of threads I haven't touched. I just typically only post in threads where I have something to say, and I don't count chiming in with a "You're right, FET is wrong," as any kind of addition.

Quote
Some of what the OP suggested, however, isn't beyond their means and might actually produce usable data/evidence.
Ok, which would you say was a) usable, and b) you'd believe if an FEer provided it.

Would love to see you in one of the countless eclipse threads, though.
Just wonder why you wouldn't show up there even once?  ???
Well, given you bolded the 'when I have something to say,' I'm sure you know why.  Might do when I can write something up on the antimoon, but until then the only FE answer I really know's the one people already know.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!