Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?

  • 65 Replies
  • 19417 Views
?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
It seems a working map would be the backbone of their belief.  Every time the subject of distances comes up and it just doesn't fit with the flat earth map, the response is always "You are not using the correct map" or "That isn't the actual map" (or something like that).

The instance I used was that it takes 12 hours to fly from Aukland, New Zealand to Buenos Aires, Argentina; however, based on the flat earth map - that is impossible.  It would take at least twice as long.

C'mon folks, making a map is NOT that hard.  Finding distances between two points is NOT that hard.

They are basing their entire belief on something that they can't agree upon... A MAP ... ... ... ... very interesting.
They are basing their entire belief on "ifs", and "possibly's", and "maybe's"... ... ... ... VERY INTERESTING.

Please, just give me the REAL working flat earth map and I will base ALL of my calculations on that.  Don't say - "Well, that isn't the real map"

This is the map I used.  It seemed to be the best map out there with a scale.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:18:22 PM by pesadilla143 »

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 05:23:23 PM »
Quote
C'mon folks, making a map is NOT that hard.  Finding distances between two points is NOT that hard.
Are... are you saying the entire world is made up of two points?
I don't even have the words.

Mapping out the entire goddamn world is a downright ridiclous ask. I can map out my garden if you want, and if I felt like renting a car and could afford to take a few days off work I could probably get a decent measurement for the length of the landmass I'm on, but that's not what you're asking.

Simple question then:
If finding the distance between two points is easy, please find me the distance between New York and Paris. I don't mean google it, I mean find it. It's a simple, one-instance situation of the kind of thing you're asking us to do on a colossal scale. Take a flight? Won't do, you don't have an accurate measure of the plane's speed even if you assume it takes a straight path because of jet streams. Take a boat? Hardly accessible for most people, and you get a similar problem.
You ask us to map the whole world, and you claim it's 'not that hard,' it should be downright trivial for you to calculate one little distance and tell us how.

This is idiotic, and I'll happily stand by that until you do the above.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 05:38:04 PM »
Quote
C'mon folks, making a map is NOT that hard.  Finding distances between two points is NOT that hard.
Are... are you saying the entire world is made up of two points?
I don't even have the words.

Mapping out the entire goddamn world is a downright ridiclous ask. I can map out my garden if you want, and if I felt like renting a car and could afford to take a few days off work I could probably get a decent measurement for the length of the landmass I'm on, but that's not what you're asking.

Simple question then:
If finding the distance between two points is easy, please find me the distance between New York and Paris. I don't mean google it, I mean find it. It's a simple, one-instance situation of the kind of thing you're asking us to do on a colossal scale. Take a flight? Won't do, you don't have an accurate measure of the plane's speed even if you assume it takes a straight path because of jet streams. Take a boat? Hardly accessible for most people, and you get a similar problem.
You ask us to map the whole world, and you claim it's 'not that hard,' it should be downright trivial for you to calculate one little distance and tell us how.

This is idiotic, and I'll happily stand by that until you do the above.

First of all, I never said the world was made up of ONLY two points - you are trying to deflect.  Let me rephrase... "Finding distances between ANY two points on this earth is NOT that hard".  I digress.

Is that really your defense?  That each and every person must verify each and every distance?  Really?  Is that what you are basing your ENTIRE belief on?

Yes, mapping out the entire world is ridiculous - IF only one person did it; however, there are billions of people on this planet.

There are billions of people on the planet that travel.  Pick any two cities on the planet and I can guarantee that more than one person has travelled that distance.

The example I gave (from Auckland, New Zealand to Buenos Aires, Argentina) has been travelled by millions of people, but because I have not travelled it, or it wasn't measured by walking it - that distance is suspect?  Really?

From what I am gathering, you are saying to get an accurate measurement, every distance must be hand measured from the ground.  You guys... wow.

A working map would solve everything.  It would answer all questions.  It would put away all doubt. 

You see, we have a working map... it is called a globe - AND EVERYTHING WORKS ON A GLOBE!  All distances work.  All times it takes to get from point A to point B works.  Do you know why?  Because we live on a planet that is ball shaped.

The funny things is... NONE of the distances on the southern hemisphere work on any flat earth map.  I wonder why.

Do you REALLY want to go down this rabbit hole with me?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 08:50:06 PM by pesadilla143 »

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 03:21:15 AM »
Quote
however, there are billions of people on this planet.
Great. How many of them are you in contact with?

Do you seriously not see how moronic you're being?! No, we don't have to measure the distance between every point, but we have to measure a hell of a lot more than the distance between just two points, and handwaving "Oh, just find a stranger who's been between those two points," as though they a) know the distance, b) measured the distance, c) actually remember the distance is stupid.

Quote
The example I gave (from Auckland, New Zealand to Buenos Aires, Argentina) has been travelled by millions of people, but because I have not travelled it, or it wasn't measured by walking it - that distance is suspect?  Really?
What the fuck are you talking about?
See if you can get this into your head: when people travel by plane, it doesn't matter how grand and reliable the estimates are, they only know the time the flight takes, not the distance. The time the flight takes depends on its speed and its speed depends on route and wind and direction...
The distance is not 'suspect' because THERE IS NO DISTANCE GIVEN. THERE IS JUST FLIGHT TIME.

I repeat my question to you, which I notice you ignored:

If finding the distance between two points is easy, please find me the distance between New York and Paris. I don't mean google it, I mean find it. It's a simple, one-instance situation of the kind of thing you're asking us to do on a colossal scale. Take a flight? Won't do, you don't have an accurate measure of the plane's speed even if you assume it takes a straight path because of jet streams. Take a boat? Hardly accessible for most people, and you get a similar problem.
You ask us to map the whole world, and you claim it's 'not that hard,' it should be downright trivial for you to calculate one little distance and tell us how. 
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • +0/-0
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 06:20:32 AM »
See if you can get this into your head: when people travel by plane, it doesn't matter how grand and reliable the estimates are, they only know the time the flight takes, not the distance. The time the flight takes depends on its speed and its speed depends on route and wind and direction...
The distance is not 'suspect' because THERE IS NO DISTANCE GIVEN. THERE IS JUST FLIGHT TIME.
Yes, there is a flight time and a given aircraft cruises at close to the same air speed on every flight west to east or east to west.
The west to east will have a faster "ground speed" because of the jet stream, but The east to west will have a slower "ground speed".

Sure, this does not give exact distances, but it is close. Of course, distances are given,
but you choose to ignore anything that does fit your own ideas.

Not only that, but I believe that I showed you flights
          from Perth to Melbourne, with distances that were derived from surveys and
          from Melbourne to Aukland, with distances that were over sea and were derived from latitude and longitude.
The distances and flight times were almost the same.

No, you can get away with your claim that we do not know distances between continents.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic
I repeat my question to you, which I notice you ignored:

If finding the distance between two points is easy, please find me the distance between New York and Paris. I don't mean google it, I mean find it. It's a simple, one-instance situation of the kind of thing you're asking us to do on a colossal scale. Take a flight? Won't do, you don't have an accurate measure of the plane's speed even if you assume it takes a straight path because of jet streams. Take a boat? Hardly accessible for most people, and you get a similar problem.
You ask us to map the whole world, and you claim it's 'not that hard,' it should be downright trivial for you to calculate one little distance and tell us how.
Look, get this straight, one person cannot gather all this information. You simply have to rely of measurements made by others.

All the data you need to make a map is available in the form of latitude and longitude for any location you like to pick.

Mapping then involves deciding where those latitude and longitude lines go. The Standard flat earth AEP "place holder" is one.

But, one does not have absolute freedom in this assignment, because,
for example, whatever the cause, you might have great difficulty of trying to get away with the sun moving at different speeds/angles as it apparently moves around the earth.

Then the azimuth and elevation angles of the sun, moon, planets and stars are very well documented and have been for centuries in places like the Almanac used by ships navigators, mainly in earlier days.

You simply will not get away with claiming that these tables are wrong, so puts clear restraints on what you can do.

You might claim that these tables were made up for the Globe, maybe so, but they were certainly made up for the real earth, the only one we have.

So don't claim that we don't know these things - we do know them and closing your mind and eyes to that is simply foolish.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 06:29:13 AM »
Quote
The example I gave (from Auckland, New Zealand to Buenos Aires, Argentina) has been travelled by millions of people, but because I have not travelled it, or it wasn't measured by walking it - that distance is suspect?  Really?
What the fuck are you talking about?
See if you can get this into your head: when people travel by plane, it doesn't matter how grand and reliable the estimates are, they only know the time the flight takes, not the distance. The time the flight takes depends on its speed and its speed depends on route and wind and direction...
The distance is not 'suspect' because THERE IS NO DISTANCE GIVEN. THERE IS JUST FLIGHT TIME.
Did you know that if you take the speed of the plane and multiply it by flight time, then you can get a pretty good idea of the distance traveled?

Also, many flight tracker web applications include distances between airports.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2017, 07:21:37 AM »
Quote
however, there are billions of people on this planet.
Great. How many of them are you in contact with?

Do you seriously not see how moronic you're being?! No, we don't have to measure the distance between every point, but we have to measure a hell of a lot more than the distance between just two points, and handwaving "Oh, just find a stranger who's been between those two points," as though they a) know the distance, b) measured the distance, c) actually remember the distance is stupid.

Quote
The example I gave (from Auckland, New Zealand to Buenos Aires, Argentina) has been travelled by millions of people, but because I have not travelled it, or it wasn't measured by walking it - that distance is suspect?  Really?
What the fuck are you talking about?
See if you can get this into your head: when people travel by plane, it doesn't matter how grand and reliable the estimates are, they only know the time the flight takes, not the distance. The time the flight takes depends on its speed and its speed depends on route and wind and direction...
The distance is not 'suspect' because THERE IS NO DISTANCE GIVEN. THERE IS JUST FLIGHT TIME.

I repeat my question to you, which I notice you ignored:

If finding the distance between two points is easy, please find me the distance between New York and Paris. I don't mean google it, I mean find it. It's a simple, one-instance situation of the kind of thing you're asking us to do on a colossal scale. Take a flight? Won't do, you don't have an accurate measure of the plane's speed even if you assume it takes a straight path because of jet streams. Take a boat? Hardly accessible for most people, and you get a similar problem.
You ask us to map the whole world, and you claim it's 'not that hard,' it should be downright trivial for you to calculate one little distance and tell us how.

Out of all the FE believers people on here... I believe you are the real deal.  Most of the FE'ers on here are just trolls. 

"But we don't have a true Flat Earth map" <<< NOT AN ANSWER!

You are basing your entire belief on something that you can't agree upon... interesting.
You are basing your entire belief on a bunch of "ifs", "maybe's", and "possibly's"... ... ... ... very interesting.

I am basing my belief on facts that have been around for centuries.  I am basing my beliefs on facts that have been checked, double checked, and tripled checked, and checked again - many times over by multiple sources.  I am not an expert on the earth, but if you ask me a question about the surface of the earth - I will be able to get the answer for you after some research.  I don't believe you have the confidence to do the same in return.  All I asked was "How far is it from point A to point B" - and all you can say is "we don't know".  Well, I do know.

You can say space travel isn't real.  Even if it wasn't real (or if the moon landing never happened) - Being in space or landing on the moon are not primers for the shape of the earth.  Distances between any two cities (points) on the earth are primers.  That will either make ~or~ break your case.

A working map would solve EVERYTHING.  A simple working map.  Making a map is not hard.  Take the distances between all the major cities and plot them on a surface.  Guess what shape you will get?  There is only one shape that will come from it and it isn't a flat surface.  It is a globe.

FE'ers can agree upon all these advanced theories about everything.  They can go into detail on how the most complicated things work.  You have detailed answers for everything, but you can't give the distances between any two points.  YET ... you can tell us exactly how far the Sun is from the earth???  How is that.  You can't tell us how far Auckland, New Zealand is from Buenos Aires, Argentina but you CAN tell us how far the Sun is from the earth ... to the mile :-\

Now, you want me (personally) to find the distance from New York to Paris from scratch.  You want me to start at New York and, from the ground and sea, travel to Paris and tell you the distance I came up with.  I don't have the finances, desire, or time to do that.  That distance has been calculated thousands (if not millions) of times already.  I would just be re-inventing the proverbial wheel.

One thing I noticed about people claiming to be FE'ers... they have the most colorful language and have a lot of anger... curious.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 07:53:33 AM by pesadilla143 »

*

Rayzor

  • 12195
  • +0/-6
  • Looking for Occam
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 07:32:35 AM »
Mapping out the entire goddamn world is a downright ridiclous ask. I can map out my garden if you want, and if I felt like renting a car and could afford to take a few days off work I could probably get a decent measurement for the length of the landmass I'm on, but that's not what you're asking.

Simple question then:
If finding the distance between two points is easy, please find me the distance between New York and Paris. I don't mean google it, I mean find it. It's a simple, one-instance situation of the kind of thing you're asking us to do on a colossal scale. Take a flight? Won't do, you don't have an accurate measure of the plane's speed even if you assume it takes a straight path because of jet streams. Take a boat? Hardly accessible for most people, and you get a similar problem.
You ask us to map the whole world, and you claim it's 'not that hard,' it should be downright trivial for you to calculate one little distance and tell us how.

This is idiotic, and I'll happily stand by that until you do the above.

It's been done,  many times and it's simple geometry.   Look up Geodetic Survey Techniques. 

Since,  you probably won't do that,   instead go talk to a surveyor and ask them how they measure distances.   Also,  if you look hard you might find local reference survey markers in your area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodetic_datum

And in answer to your question,  yes we do in fact know the distance between New York and Paris,   your assertion that distances are unknown is absurd in the extreme.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 09:50:39 AM »
Quote
And in answer to your question,  yes we do in fact know the distance between New York and Paris,   
I... what? That wasn't my question. That's pretty much emphatically ignoring my question given that I explicitly said to not used google.
I asked you to measure it yourself, which is what you are asking us to do, not to just look up the RE map.
Geodetic datums seem to rely on already having a map and are completely pointless here.


Quote
Yes, there is a flight time and a given aircraft cruises at close to the same air speed on every flight west to east or east to west.
The west to east will have a faster "ground speed" because of the jet stream, but The east to west will have a slower "ground speed".

Sure, this does not give exact distances, but it is close. Of course, distances are given,
but you choose to ignore anything that does fit your own ideas.
I don't care about what's 'given,' I care about what's proven. Completely different flight times add tremendous error to the distances. End of.

Quote
Did you know that if you take the speed of the plane and multiply it by flight time, then you can get a pretty good idea of the distance traveled?
Did you know that I am not a moron and clearly already know that given I already responded to it? This is pathetic.

Quote
You are basing your entire belief on something that you can't agree upon... interesting.
No, I'm basing FET based on scientific principles. I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work: I don't need to know the precise molecular make-up and tuning of a piano to know I'd rather one didn't drop on my head, you seem to be insisting without that you'd happily stand there and let yourself get crushed.

Quote
Now, you want me (personally) to find the distance from New York to Paris from scratch.  You want me to start at New York and, from the ground and sea, travel to Paris and tell you the distance I came up with.  I don't have the finances, desire, or time to do that.  That distance has been calculated thousands (if not millions) of times already.  I would just be re-inventing the proverbial wheel.

One thing I noticed about people claiming to be FE'ers... they have the most colorful language and have a lot of anger... curious.
Because we are dealing with self-righteous blatant hypocrites. Look at what you just said, then look at what you're asking us to do. Funny how "I don't have the finances, desire, or time to do that," is only an acceptable response when an REer gives it.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 09:57:46 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 10:00:05 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2017, 10:03:56 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.

How is it that you can't get the distance from Paris to New York, BUT you can give us the distance from the earth to the sun within a mile?

Do you have anger issues?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:05:42 AM by pesadilla143 »

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2017, 10:08:56 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.

Just show us a simple map that we can base all of our calculations.  That would prove your are right and we are wrong.  A simple working flat earth map would end this debate once and for all.

I can show you a working map that can do all those things... it is called a globe.

You are basing your ENTIRE belief on "It is flat because I say it is flat"
We are basing our ENTIRE belief on "I can show you a map that works - a map that has been proven over and over"

Then you say "I am will make the map as soon as you tell me the distance between blah... blah... blah..."  My five year old has more composure than that.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:13:50 AM by pesadilla143 »

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 10:11:28 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
Do latitude and longitude work in your model?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 10:12:15 AM »
Quote
How is it that you can't get the distance from Paris to New York, BUT you can give us the distance from the earth to the sun within a mile?

Do you have anger issues?
Anyone would lose their temper when they constantly have to deal with such blindingly arrogant stupidity. Just look at yourself. You change the topic, you evade, then go back to whinging and demanding the same thing all over again that you admit you "don't have the finances, desire, or time to do that," and yet you expect it of everyone else.
And are you seriously going to sit there and claim measuring the distance from Paris to NY is the same as measuring shadow lengths? That's beyond pathetic.

Just show us a simple map that we can base all of our calculations. 
Sure, will you foot the bill for making it?

I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
Do latitude and longitude work in your model?
...You're going to have to be more specific.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2017, 10:17:31 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
Do latitude and longitude work in your model?
...You're going to have to be more specific.
It seems like a pretty straightforward question to me.  Do latitude and longitude work pretty much the same way in your model as they do in RET?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2017, 10:19:57 AM »
Quote
How is it that you can't get the distance from Paris to New York, BUT you can give us the distance from the earth to the sun within a mile?

Do you have anger issues?
Anyone would lose their temper when they constantly have to deal with such blindingly arrogant stupidity. Just look at yourself. You change the topic, you evade, then go back to whinging and demanding the same thing all over again that you admit you "don't have the finances, desire, or time to do that," and yet you expect it of everyone else.
And are you seriously going to sit there and claim measuring the distance from Paris to NY is the same as measuring shadow lengths? That's beyond pathetic.

Just show us a simple map that we can base all of our calculations. 
Sure, will you foot the bill for making it?

I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
Do latitude and longitude work in your model?
...You're going to have to be more specific.

We are not asking you personally to make a flat earth map.  Just as we are not going to personally make a Globe.  It is a collective effort.  There are people out there that do this kind of stuff for a living.  This is what they get paid to do - and they are good at it.  They collectively collect results.  They put those results into an algorithm that creates a working map.

Are you saying that there are NO FE believers willing to go into this profession?  Are you saying there are no FE believers that would love to travel the globe - and be paid to do it?  Cartography is of no interest to at least ONE flat earth believer?

You do realize that if you guys COLLECTIVELY made a FE map, you guys would go down in history.

I can tell you why it has never happened, and I think you know why.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:24:01 AM by pesadilla143 »

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2017, 10:20:47 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
Do latitude and longitude work in your model?
...You're going to have to be more specific.
It seems like a pretty straightforward question to me.  Do latitude and longitude work pretty much the same way in your model as they do in RET?

Seemed straight forward to me; however, if they admit it, they would be saying they were wrong.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2017, 10:23:41 AM »
Also, Pesadilla, that thing you "don't have the finances, desire, or time to do that," is that thing you originally said was "NOT that hard." Just felt like you ought to be reminded of that.

Can you people as a whole just move on from the sheer stupidity of this argument already?

You won't even measure one distance, and yet despite the fact you're yet to even answer my question with a how you're insisting it must be easy for FEers to do the entire world.
So, what's your method? Give me a way to measure the distance from NY to Paris? Just rely on an existing map like GPS or google? Buy a ship and improve drastically on ancient methods to accurately measured speed and time the whole way? Going to give any indication of how what you're asking is even remotely feasible, or just going to keep on demanding?

No one 'out there' maps the world any more, they map smaller scale areas. As far as they're concerned the world's done.

I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
Do latitude and longitude work in your model?
...You're going to have to be more specific.
It seems like a pretty straightforward question to me.  Do latitude and longitude work pretty much the same way in your model as they do in RET?
Well no given under RET they're only defined in reference to a globe. You can define an analogue easily enough, but it depends what properties you're after, hence why I'm asking you to be more specific.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2017, 10:28:11 AM »
You won't even measure one distance, and yet despite the fact you're yet to even answer my question with a how you're insisting it must be easy for FEers to do the entire world.
So, what's your method? Give me a way to measure the distance from NY to Paris? Just rely on an existing map like GPS or google? Buy a ship and improve drastically on ancient methods to accurately measured speed and time the whole way? Going to give any indication of how what you're asking is even remotely feasible, or just going to keep on demanding?

What do you mean we won't even measure one distance?  We (collectively - not personally) have measured many distances thousands of times.  There are people that get paid to do this kind of stuff - it's called cartography.  It's not a new profession.  They do this for a living.

BTW... it IS easy to measure distances.  I get in my car - drive from Los Angeles to New York and I have a distance.  Easy.  Time-consuming, but easy.  It isn't personally my thing; however, I trust the thousands of people who have done this kind of thing.  These cartographers have their methods (that have been proven over and over) of measuring distances from say - New York to Paris.

I am not taking one persons word on these distances - I am taking the word of thousands of people who have checked and double checked these distances.

The bottom line is this:  These distance (that have been verified over and over) do not work on a flat earth map.  Period.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:40:35 AM by pesadilla143 »

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2017, 10:37:17 AM »
These cartographers have their methods (that have been proven over and over) of measuring distances from say - New York to Paris.
Great. Going to give one at any stage? This is what you're insisting the FES does after all, you expect us to undertake this grand endeavor and you're not even going to justify a simple little claim like this? What is the feasible method?

Or are you now shifting arguments from "Go make a map!" to "We already have a map!"
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2017, 10:45:29 AM »
These cartographers have their methods (that have been proven over and over) of measuring distances from say - New York to Paris.
Great. Going to give one at any stage? This is what you're insisting the FES does after all, you expect us to undertake this grand endeavor and you're not even going to justify a simple little claim like this? What is the feasible method?

Or are you now shifting arguments from "Go make a map!" to "We already have a map!"

I am a computer programmer.  I write programs (similar to the program we are using to communicate - I DID NOT SAY I WROTE THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM).  I write programs similar to this.

I can't ask somebody to explain to somebody else how I do it because they may not know - nor would I expect them to know.  They most likely have no interest in programming.  They are just going to have to take my word (and the word of thousands of other programmers) on it.

The same with making maps and measuring distances.  I don't know their methods.  I am not going to pretend and tell you how they do it, because I don't know  how they do it.  I am going to take their word (and the word of thousands of other cartographers) on it.

Bottom line is this:  The distances that have been measured and verified over and over do not work on the flat earth model.  Period.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:55:15 AM by pesadilla143 »

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2017, 10:55:28 AM »
I don't need a map of the world to know it's flat, I just need an understanding of how a flat world would work:
Maybe not, but you do need a map to show that a flat earth can work.
Sure, I'll get right on it, once you do as I asked with respect to Paris and New York.
Do latitude and longitude work in your model?
...You're going to have to be more specific.
It seems like a pretty straightforward question to me.  Do latitude and longitude work pretty much the same way in your model as they do in RET?
Well no given under RET they're only defined in reference to a globe. You can define an analogue easily enough, but it depends what properties you're after, hence why I'm asking you to be more specific.
The specific property that I'm looking for is the ability to reference specific locations on your dual earth using polar coordinates relative to either pole.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Username

  • President of The Flat Earth Society
  • Administrator
  • 18223
  • +41/-66
  • Most Accurate Scientist Ever
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2017, 10:56:36 AM »
The distances work fine on many flat earth models, such as my non-euclidean flat earth.
If you ca.n't argue bath sdes, yolu understand neither

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2017, 11:03:14 AM »
The distances work fine on many flat earth models, such as my non-euclidean flat earth.

Do you know what I like about you... even though we disagree, you state your point without getting angry... Why are so many FE believers angry?

You state your point without mincing words or twisting what other people say.

Anyways, can you give me a link to this non-Euclidean flat earth map so I can do some calculations?

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • +0/-0
  • DET Developer
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2017, 11:04:42 AM »
Bottom line is this:  The distances that have been measured and verified over and over do not work on the flat earth model.  Period.
So you're changing the argument, and doing so to one you admit you can't justify.

The specific property that I'm looking for is the ability to reference specific locations on your dual earth using polar coordinates relative to either pole.

Certainly can be done. I don't think they'd line up 100% with the distance from the poles under the RE model, but they'd mostly be pretty close.

Why are so many FE believers angry? 
Look at your endless antagonizing in this thread and you might be able to figure it out. Refusing to answer a question, being a hypocrite, changing the argument once you realise your original one was bad, all with a hefty dose of the self-righteousness REers are known for. The only reaosn Davis can keep his temper is that he doesn't have to deal with people like you constantly.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

pesadilla143

  • 145
  • +0/-0
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2017, 11:09:35 AM »

Look at your endless antagonizing in this thread and you might be able to figure it out. Refusing to answer a question, being a hypocrite, changing the argument once you realise your original one was bad, all with a hefty dose of the self-righteousness REers are known for. The only reaosn Davis can keep his temper is that he doesn't have to deal with people like you constantly.

What question am I refusing to answer?

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • +1/-1
  • Extra Racist
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2017, 11:17:14 AM »
Let's see.
New York to Paris is 6 time zones so a fourth of 24 hours.
The circumference of the earth around Paris is about 16,629 miles. So a fourth of that with rounding is 4,157 miles. That would be circumference distance.

The listed flight distance probably takes into account the great circle and is listed at 3,628 miles.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2017, 11:36:13 AM »
The specific property that I'm looking for is the ability to reference specific locations on your dual earth using polar coordinates relative to either pole.

Certainly can be done. I don't think they'd line up 100% with the distance from the poles under the RE model, but they'd mostly be pretty close.
Then that means that you already have the capability to calculate the distance from New York to Paris under your model.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45084
  • +87/-110
Re: Why is there no definitive map that the FE group can agree upon?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2017, 11:37:05 AM »
The distances work fine on many flat earth models, such as my non-euclidean flat earth.
Do you have any evidence to support that outlandish claim?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.