Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #240 on: July 24, 2017, 03:18:25 AM »
May I suggest that nobody writes in this thread until the pilot answers.

That way we will not miss his post.

Do we all agree?
No. How about you respond to what others have said like a rational adult.
Gyroscopes in planes have a self righting mechanism. They will automatically re-right themselves to align with the effective direction of gravity.

Bullshit, prove it, download the document and show me where it is!!!

http://www.opencockpits.com/index.php/en/download/item/how-to-build-an-attitude-indicator-with-servomotors
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

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savagepilot

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #241 on: July 24, 2017, 03:32:19 AM »

In your 13,000 hours of flight, have you ever manually correct your gyroscope while in flight and if so, at what intervals?

Also I have found this document where they explain "How to build an attitude indicator with servomotors"

www.opencockpits.com/index.php/en/download?task=callelement&format=raw&item_id=35&element=f85c494b-2b32-4109-b8c1-083cca2b7db6&method=download&args[0]=8cbc50c30f6ba3bf003cf960a20cf1a9

I did not see any mechanism to automatically correct the gyroscope position. If their is, please tell me the page on the document.

If i would take a portable gyroscope on a flight from the USA to Japan, would it remain level for the entire flight, or would it rotate with the earths curvature?

1 - No, aviation gyroscopes are designed to maintain constant level with the surface of the earth.  As we move around the earth and the surface curves, the gyroscope is designed to stay level, therefore it curves with the earth.  Space gyroscopes do not do that, they maintain orientation with the stars.

2 - You're joking, right?  You realize the title of this is "Tutorial on how to modify a real attitude indicator to be used with IOCards and servo motors," and that he's using the servos so the instrument can be used with a PC flight simulator?  The subject of self correction never came up because, for his purposes, the gyro will never spin and it will never move.  It sits on his desk while he's playing X Plane and the servo moves the horizon indicator.  Try again.

Oh, here, I'll do it for you.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

You're interested in 1:40 on, where he describes the vanes and how the air blowing through vents in the bottom keep the AI perfectly aligned with the surface of the Earth.  Which, as we all know, curves, and so this is the mechanism, through the force of gravity, that allows the AI to follow the curvature of the Earth.

3 - Are you taking a toy?  Then no.  Are you taking a professionally calibrated attitude indicator with the associated vacuum pump to run it?  Then yes.  But hey, the pilots are already doing that for you.

Actually, in modern commercial aircraft the gyros are much more sophisticated, but the principle is the same.

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savagepilot

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #242 on: July 24, 2017, 03:37:45 AM »


Do you mean 3 degrees of freedom?

If you have to correct something while he is flying, then it not dependable and would never get approved by the FAA.

It's like you having to calibrate your speedometer every 3 minutes while your driving.

If on the other hand, once the airplane has landed, then yes, you can calibrate the gyroscope. Different scenario totally.

He has not answered if he fixes it manually as someone posted a link in this thread, while he is in flight.

From the documentation that I have posted, their are non automatic fixing mechanism in the gyroscope machinery.

If he tells us, that he manually corrects the gyroscope while he is flying ever x amount of minutes, then I would agree with you that the Earth is round.

And I have told you that NO, we do not correct it, because it corrects ITSELF because the third axis is designed to always be perpendicular to the surface through the force of gravity.  On a curved Earth, gravity always points to the center, so even as the vector of gravity changes in reference to the stars, it affects the AI, which points towards the surface, thereby ensuring it follows the curve of the Earth.

The documentation you provided is bogus, it was written by a guy modifying an old AI for use on his desk with a flight simulator.

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savagepilot

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #243 on: July 24, 2017, 03:39:28 AM »
May I suggest that nobody writes in this thread until the pilot answers.

That way we will not miss his post.

Do we all agree?
No. How about you respond to what others have said like a rational adult.
Gyroscopes in planes have a self righting mechanism. They will automatically re-right themselves to align with the effective direction of gravity.

Bullshit, prove it, download the document and show me where it is!!!

http://www.opencockpits.com/index.php/en/download/item/how-to-build-an-attitude-indicator-with-servomotors

Allow me, in case you missed it earlier.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #244 on: July 24, 2017, 03:44:45 AM »

In your 13,000 hours of flight, have you ever manually correct your gyroscope while in flight and if so, at what intervals?

Also I have found this document where they explain "How to build an attitude indicator with servomotors"

www.opencockpits.com/index.php/en/download?task=callelement&format=raw&item_id=35&element=f85c494b-2b32-4109-b8c1-083cca2b7db6&method=download&args[0]=8cbc50c30f6ba3bf003cf960a20cf1a9

I did not see any mechanism to automatically correct the gyroscope position. If their is, please tell me the page on the document.

If i would take a portable gyroscope on a flight from the USA to Japan, would it remain level for the entire flight, or would it rotate with the earths curvature?

1 - No, aviation gyroscopes are designed to maintain constant level with the surface of the earth.  As we move around the earth and the surface curves, the gyroscope is designed to stay level, therefore it curves with the earth.  Space gyroscopes do not do that, they maintain orientation with the stars.

2 - You're joking, right?  You realize the title of this is "Tutorial on how to modify a real attitude indicator to be used with IOCards and servo motors," and that he's using the servos so the instrument can be used with a PC flight simulator?  The subject of self correction never came up because, for his purposes, the gyro will never spin and it will never move.  It sits on his desk while he's playing X Plane and the servo moves the horizon indicator.  Try again.

Oh, here, I'll do it for you.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

You're interested in 1:40 on, where he describes the vanes and how the air blowing through vents in the bottom keep the AI perfectly aligned with the surface of the Earth.  Which, as we all know, curves, and so this is the mechanism, through the force of gravity, that allows the AI to follow the curvature of the Earth.

3 - Are you taking a toy?  Then no.  Are you taking a professionally calibrated attitude indicator with the associated vacuum pump to run it?  Then yes.  But hey, the pilots are already doing that for you.

Actually, in modern commercial aircraft the gyros are much more sophisticated, but the principle is the same.

Thank you for your time and honest effort to shine some light on the subject, but...

If you were actually flying on a Flat Earth, would you see any difference than in a spherical Earth?

If I was to have a professional independent gyroscope on an airplane as I was traveling, would it remain at a constant level or would it turn with the earths curvature?

Just because the airplane gyros are capable of working, if that is the case, in a spherical earth, does not mean that they are actual working on a spherical earth.

It's like just because your car can do 200 mph, does not mean that you are traveling at 200 mph.

So bottom line, a mathematical model of how the earth's atmosphere will rotate with the earth's rotation must be provided, because we can go back an forth on this subject forever.
 
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

*

Crutchwater

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #245 on: July 24, 2017, 03:50:35 AM »
1 - The Earth isn't flat
2 - You received the answer to the question you asked
3 - You got your ass handed to you, AGAIN!
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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telsarbg

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #246 on: July 24, 2017, 03:56:21 AM »
So bottom line, a mathematical model of how the earth's atmosphere will rotate with the earth's rotation must be provided, because we can go back an forth on this subject forever.

You're talking about primitive equations. I have linked you 2 times already.

Wiki introduction :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_equations

Actual equations including the rotation of the Earth :
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/staff/islas/teaching/2_Equations.pdf

No matter how many times one of your questions is answered, you're going to ask it again. What is the point ?

You're saying that the working maths of the classical model don't mean it's true. As opposed to the non-existing maths of the FE model. Your mind is set so don't bother asking questions, you obviously don't care about the answers. Believe what you want and stop making a fool of yourself.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #247 on: July 24, 2017, 04:03:18 AM »
If NASA was able to send a man to the moon then they can have a mathematical model with actual numbers that prove that the earth rotates with the earth.

Second, the airplanes can also fly on a Flat Earth just as well, and even better than a spherical earth

Just because you can eat 100 hot dogs an hour, that means you actually eat 100 hot dogs.

If you want me to say that the Earth is round, then you have to provide proper mathematical evidence, not just throw up equations, that the Earth's atmosphere  revolves around the earth in perfect synchronization.

Which comes back to our original argument, Free Body Diagram.

Please show the pressure force (PA) on the airplane that keeps it in sync with the earths rotation on a Free Body Diagram!
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

savagepilot

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #248 on: July 24, 2017, 04:05:42 AM »
I'm a low hours private pilot - but my training and experience to date has shown there can only be a round earth. Conversely there is a highly experienced commercial pilot on this thread saying the earth is round. All the other genuine pilots that have ever posted on this forum say the earth is round. These are all individuals with 1000s of hours of training and experience based on a round earth. A bunch of poorly educated souls watch a couple of spurious YouTube videos and they begin to labour under the misapprehension they have advanced knowledge? Mental.

You can swear and rant all you want - as long as you argue the ridiculous case for a flat earth you will always come across as the loser. You've backed the wrong horse. Keep swearing - its all you've got.
Nothing in your pilot training or anything else in your life experience shows you there can only be a round earth.

Keep telling lies.

It is what liars do.

Have a nice day, liar.


So one more before I call it a night.  First off, if you want a rational adult discussion, I'm happy to oblige.  Please leave the immaturity out of it.  If I want a childish argument I'll call my 6 year old.

You want examples of easily observable phenomenon that cannot be explained by flat earth?  I'll give you three.  I have personally witnessed them all.

1 - I hope you have been on a commercial airplane before, perhaps several times, so all your arguing points come from your personal experience (if not, then shut your ignorant pie hole and get out of the room).  But I'll pretend you have first hand experience with flying.  The one thing any flier with a window seat can clearly see is that the apparent horizon - that is, the line where the land meets the sky - drops at altitude.  What does this mean?  The actual horizon is perpendicular and tangential to the surface of the Earth directly below the observer.  So for an ant on a perfectly smooth surface, the actual horizon and the apparent horizon are the same.  But as we ascend in altitude, the apparent horizon drops because of the curve of the Earth, while the actual horizon, that line tangential to the surface, according to basic geometry would not change.  Because all of your analysis comes from direct observation, here is what you do:  Get yourself a $5 bubble level from the hardware store.  Just before takeoff, sight right down the long axis of the level, ensuring the bubbles indicate it is indeed level.  You will be looking at or very near the apparent horizon.  For grins, relate it to a fixed position towards the tip of the wing.  Do it again at altitude - sight down the long axis ensuring the bubbles are level.  You will find, given a sharp clear apparent horizon, that the line where the land meets the sky is well below the line of sight from the bubble level.  The apparent horizon is at a lower angle, while the actual horizon, that invisible line that geometry says must be at eye level because it's tangential to the surface of the Earth below you, is still pointing to the same spot on the wing.

"But this doesn't work in clouds or because of haze or you are sitting up higher in your seat or because of perspective where we arbitrarily moved a vanishing point and changed the geometric definition of one to suit our needs" I hear you cry.  That is why you must do it with a clear, sharp apparent horizon.  They are not hard to see.  And that is why we use a bubble level, it will give the same result independent of how high or low you shift your position in your seat.

2 - Second sunrise.  If you takeoff to the west minutes after sunset from an airport on the coastline (and I have, Komatsu, Japan, runway 24 in winter where the sun is to the southwest), then you will see the sun reappear as you climb.  It does not magically fade out of the mist or appear due to perspective.  It rises, with the top showing, then the middle, then the bottom, and then it climbs some degrees above the apparent horizon depending on our rate of climb.  Once we reach cruise altitude and level off, we are no longer increasing the dip of the apparent horizon, and the sun then sinks slowly again below the apparent horizon because the speed of a jet does not match the rotation of the Earth.  If you had your handy $5 bubble level, you could observe that the entire time the sun reappeared above the apparent horizon it was BELOW the actual horizon, our friend, tangential to the surface.

3 - We have an instrument on our airplane that communicates with other airplanes, relaying position and altitude information.  It is very common for me to observe aircraft near us, 1,000 feet below us, that are above the apparent horizon.  They are still below the actual horizon, but they are in that area of sky above the land because the apparent horizon drops as altitude increases.  It looks as though they are higher until they get very close, then the relative angle between the two planes proves they are actually lower.

Your turn.

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savagepilot

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #249 on: July 24, 2017, 04:12:11 AM »

In your 13,000 hours of flight, have you ever manually correct your gyroscope while in flight and if so, at what intervals?

Also I have found this document where they explain "How to build an attitude indicator with servomotors"

www.opencockpits.com/index.php/en/download?task=callelement&format=raw&item_id=35&element=f85c494b-2b32-4109-b8c1-083cca2b7db6&method=download&args[0]=8cbc50c30f6ba3bf003cf960a20cf1a9

I did not see any mechanism to automatically correct the gyroscope position. If their is, please tell me the page on the document.

If i would take a portable gyroscope on a flight from the USA to Japan, would it remain level for the entire flight, or would it rotate with the earths curvature?

1 - No, aviation gyroscopes are designed to maintain constant level with the surface of the earth.  As we move around the earth and the surface curves, the gyroscope is designed to stay level, therefore it curves with the earth.  Space gyroscopes do not do that, they maintain orientation with the stars.

2 - You're joking, right?  You realize the title of this is "Tutorial on how to modify a real attitude indicator to be used with IOCards and servo motors," and that he's using the servos so the instrument can be used with a PC flight simulator?  The subject of self correction never came up because, for his purposes, the gyro will never spin and it will never move.  It sits on his desk while he's playing X Plane and the servo moves the horizon indicator.  Try again.

Oh, here, I'll do it for you.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

You're interested in 1:40 on, where he describes the vanes and how the air blowing through vents in the bottom keep the AI perfectly aligned with the surface of the Earth.  Which, as we all know, curves, and so this is the mechanism, through the force of gravity, that allows the AI to follow the curvature of the Earth.

3 - Are you taking a toy?  Then no.  Are you taking a professionally calibrated attitude indicator with the associated vacuum pump to run it?  Then yes.  But hey, the pilots are already doing that for you.

Actually, in modern commercial aircraft the gyros are much more sophisticated, but the principle is the same.

Thank you for your time and honest effort to shine some light on the subject, but...

If you were actually flying on a Flat Earth, would you see any difference than in a spherical Earth?

If I was to have a professional independent gyroscope on an airplane as I was traveling, would it remain at a constant level or would it turn with the earths curvature?

Just because the airplane gyros are capable of working, if that is the case, in a spherical earth, does not mean that they are actual working on a spherical earth.

It's like just because your car can do 200 mph, does not mean that you are traveling at 200 mph.

So bottom line, a mathematical model of how the earth's atmosphere will rotate with the earth's rotation must be provided, because we can go back an forth on this subject forever.

Seriously?  Okay, I'll bite.  From the perspective of our puny bodies in our puny aircraft barely skimming the lowest layers of the atmosphere there the curve of the Earth is vast and wide, then no, I fly my plane AS IF it were a level, flat Earth.  (Quick!  Sound bite!  The pilot said the earth is flat!)  But that does not mean the earth is flat.  That means that, for all the reasons I have stated above, the instruments we use and the physics that make flight possible allow the airplane to account for the curvature of the earth without intervention from the pilot.

If you were to have a professional level gyro on a plane, then yes it would curve with the earth, but you would never know it because it would always point to the ground beneath your feet.

By your own argument, just because you claim that the gyros on the flat earth are working as if they were on a curved earth does not mean that they are actually working on a flat Earth.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #250 on: July 24, 2017, 04:20:04 AM »

In your 13,000 hours of flight, have you ever manually correct your gyroscope while in flight and if so, at what intervals?

Also I have found this document where they explain "How to build an attitude indicator with servomotors"

www.opencockpits.com/index.php/en/download?task=callelement&format=raw&item_id=35&element=f85c494b-2b32-4109-b8c1-083cca2b7db6&method=download&args[0]=8cbc50c30f6ba3bf003cf960a20cf1a9

I did not see any mechanism to automatically correct the gyroscope position. If their is, please tell me the page on the document.

If i would take a portable gyroscope on a flight from the USA to Japan, would it remain level for the entire flight, or would it rotate with the earths curvature?

1 - No, aviation gyroscopes are designed to maintain constant level with the surface of the earth.  As we move around the earth and the surface curves, the gyroscope is designed to stay level, therefore it curves with the earth.  Space gyroscopes do not do that, they maintain orientation with the stars.

2 - You're joking, right?  You realize the title of this is "Tutorial on how to modify a real attitude indicator to be used with IOCards and servo motors," and that he's using the servos so the instrument can be used with a PC flight simulator?  The subject of self correction never came up because, for his purposes, the gyro will never spin and it will never move.  It sits on his desk while he's playing X Plane and the servo moves the horizon indicator.  Try again.

Oh, here, I'll do it for you.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

You're interested in 1:40 on, where he describes the vanes and how the air blowing through vents in the bottom keep the AI perfectly aligned with the surface of the Earth.  Which, as we all know, curves, and so this is the mechanism, through the force of gravity, that allows the AI to follow the curvature of the Earth.

3 - Are you taking a toy?  Then no.  Are you taking a professionally calibrated attitude indicator with the associated vacuum pump to run it?  Then yes.  But hey, the pilots are already doing that for you.

Actually, in modern commercial aircraft the gyros are much more sophisticated, but the principle is the same.

Thank you for your time and honest effort to shine some light on the subject, but...

If you were actually flying on a Flat Earth, would you see any difference than in a spherical Earth?

If I was to have a professional independent gyroscope on an airplane as I was traveling, would it remain at a constant level or would it turn with the earths curvature?

Just because the airplane gyros are capable of working, if that is the case, in a spherical earth, does not mean that they are actual working on a spherical earth.

It's like just because your car can do 200 mph, does not mean that you are traveling at 200 mph.

So bottom line, a mathematical model of how the earth's atmosphere will rotate with the earth's rotation must be provided, because we can go back an forth on this subject forever.

Seriously?  Okay, I'll bite.  From the perspective of our puny bodies in our puny aircraft barely skimming the lowest layers of the atmosphere there the curve of the Earth is vast and wide, then no, I fly my plane AS IF it were a level, flat Earth.  (Quick!  Sound bite!  The pilot said the earth is flat!)  But that does not mean the earth is flat.  That means that, for all the reasons I have stated above, the instruments we use and the physics that make flight possible allow the airplane to account for the curvature of the earth without intervention from the pilot.

If you were to have a professional level gyro on a plane, then yes it would curve with the earth, but you would never know it because it would always point to the ground beneath your feet.

By your own argument, just because you claim that the gyros on the flat earth are working as if they were on a curved earth does not mean that they are actually working on a flat Earth.

Thank you and we agree that in order to have a conclusive answer, we need to have a mathematical model of the Earth's atmosphere rotating with the Earth's rotation in perfect synchronization.

We can go back and forth on this and would be wasting our time.

Good Night and I hope that God give you health and happiness in your life!
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

telsarbg

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #251 on: July 24, 2017, 04:21:08 AM »
Which comes back to our original argument, Free Body Diagram.

Please show the pressure force (PA) on the airplane that keeps it in sync with the earths rotation on a Free Body Diagram!

I have a question for you. Take your beloved FBD of a plane :


Now imagine that Thrust = Drag and Lift = Weight. So the forces effectively cancel out :


We have F = ma, but F = 0 so a = 0.

What happens to the plane ?

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JackBlack

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #252 on: July 24, 2017, 04:32:30 AM »
Bullshit, prove it, download the document and show me where it is!!!
I'm talking about a real one, with an actual gyroscope.
The link you have is to make a fake one, where it is controlled by servos instead of a gyroscope. The instructions are to basically take the gyro out and discard it.

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rabinoz

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #253 on: July 24, 2017, 04:33:18 AM »
In your 13,000 hours of flight, have you ever manually correct your gyroscope while in flight and if so, at what intervals?
The pilot has already answered you, no. Why do you keep asking ?
Toy gyroscopes have 3 degrees of liberty. Gyroscopes in planes have only 2. The last one is always corrected to point downwards, even when the plane makes a banked turn.
Imagine a toy gyroscope of which the vertical axis is constrained by a plumb line. That's more or less what happens in planes, although they use more sophisticated accelerometers.
Do you mean 3 degrees of freedom?

If you have to correct something while he is flying, then it not dependable and would never get approved by the FAA.
In other words you don't know the first thing about aircraft attitude indicators,  AI's.

Quote from: InFlatEarth
It's like you having to calibrate your speedometer every 3 minutes while your driving.
No it is not!
The pilot does not "caiibrate" the AI in flight. The only relevant actions should be to "cage the gyro" before violent manoeuvres (hopefully never in passenger aircraft) or the reset the gyro if it "tumbled", due to a failure to cage it when required,

Quote from: InFlatEarth
If on the other hand, once the airplane has landed, then yes, you can calibrate the gyroscope. Different scenario totally.
Yes the gyro should be reset before take-off, though the built-in erecting mechanism would gradually do that anyway.

Quote from: InFlatEarth
He has not answered if he fixes it manually as someone posted a link in this thread, while he is in flight.

From the documentation that I have posted, their are non automatic fixing mechanism in the gyroscope machinery.
If he tells us, that he manually corrects the gyroscope while he is flying ever x amount of minutes, then I would agree with you that the Earth is round.
I am not a pilot, but to my knowledge the pilot would never need to "manually correct the gyroscope while he is flying", unless the gyro has "tumbled" due to violent manoeuvres.

But maybe you could read the following about attitude indicators.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Aircraft Attitude Indicators
Have you ever investigated HOW an aircraft attitude indicator really works

Look in here:Aviation Stack Exchange, How are attitude indicators kept accurate?

Quote
A gyroscopic AI has an erection mechanism, which continuously corrects the AI to be upright based on the local level, or downward acceleration vector. The correction rate is generally 3-5 degrees per minute. The way that the AI corrects itself is a system of pendulous vanes. When the gyro is not upright relative to the local level, centrifugal force pushes open vanes on the gyro's case. Air escapes through the uncovered holes, applying a force to the case, and correcting for precession.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Note that modern instruments are fully "solid state", but operate in a similar way.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The second half is somewhat counter-intuitive, but flying in a coordinated turn will not continuously increase the error in the AI. For the first half of the turn, the AI will add error; in the second half, it removes the error. After a 360 degree turn, the precession error will be removed completely.

Note the important feature is the explanation:
Quote
corrects the AI to be upright based on the local level, or downward acceleration vector. The correction rate is generally 3-5 degrees per minute.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Mr InFlatEarth Mark Twain had some very good advice for you:
Quote
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

 

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kennykirklan

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #254 on: July 24, 2017, 04:35:29 AM »
If NASA was able to send a man to the moon then they can have a mathematical model with actual numbers that prove that the earth rotates with the earth.

Second, the airplanes can also fly on a Flat Earth just as well, and even better than a spherical earth

Just because you can eat 100 hot dogs an hour, that means you actually eat 100 hot dogs.

If you want me to say that the Earth is round, then you have to provide proper mathematical evidence, not just throw up equations, that the Earth's atmosphere  revolves around the earth in perfect synchronization.

Which comes back to our original argument, Free Body Diagram.

Please show the pressure force (PA) on the airplane that keeps it in sync with the earths rotation on a Free Body Diagram!

I don't think anyone gives a monkeys what shape you think the earth is. Round earth is established - flat earth is attempting to challenge that. The onus is on you to prove Flat Earth and provide all those mathematical models and diagrams. Actually you could just start with a map. Pray to your sky wizard who might be able to guide you.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #255 on: July 24, 2017, 04:39:12 AM »
Bullshit, prove it, download the document and show me where it is!!!
I'm talking about a real one, with an actual gyroscope.
The link you have is to make a fake one, where it is controlled by servos instead of a gyroscope. The instructions are to basically take the gyro out and discard it.

read the articular, but as usual, you attack before you read. it takes an actual gyroscope from an commercial airplane and makes it into a fake one for a computer game!!

If I was to post an experiment, that I don't know the outcome,  that we could all do and it deals with our eyesight and the moon, but the results might disprove NASA, would you do it?
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

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Mikey T.

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #256 on: July 24, 2017, 04:44:53 AM »
Bullshit, prove it, download the document and show me where it is!!!
I'm talking about a real one, with an actual gyroscope.
The link you have is to make a fake one, where it is controlled by servos instead of a gyroscope. The instructions are to basically take the gyro out and discard it.

read the articular, but as usual, you attack before you read. it takes an actual gyroscope from an commercial airplane and makes it into a fake one for a computer game!!

If I was to post an experiment, that I don't know the outcome,  that we could all do and it deals with our eyesight and the moon, but the results might disprove NASA, would you do it?
With correct controls for reducing error, maybe.  Eyes and the human brain's ability to be subjective with the data it receives from those eyes are not the most accurate measuring devices.  But give us the details.

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telsarbg

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #257 on: July 24, 2017, 04:46:22 AM »
Bullshit, prove it, download the document and show me where it is!!!
I'm talking about a real one, with an actual gyroscope.
The link you have is to make a fake one, where it is controlled by servos instead of a gyroscope. The instructions are to basically take the gyro out and discard it.

read the articular, but as usual, you attack before you read. it takes an actual gyroscope from an commercial airplane and makes it into a fake one for a computer game!!

If I was to post an experiment, that I don't know the outcome,  that we could all do and it deals with our eyesight and the moon, but the results might disprove NASA, would you do it?

I would do it. Post the experiment. Also I'm waiting for your answer to my question.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #258 on: July 24, 2017, 04:47:26 AM »
I will post it, either later today or tomorrow morning, my time. I want to get the wording correct.

Should I post it in the debate section?
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #259 on: July 24, 2017, 04:48:31 AM »
Quote
Also I'm waiting for your answer to my question.

Please re-post question
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

telsarbg

  • 107
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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #260 on: July 24, 2017, 04:49:57 AM »
Please re-post question

Scroll up to the last FBD. All forces on the plane cancel out. F = 0. a = 0. What happens ?

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #261 on: July 24, 2017, 04:53:23 AM »
Please re-post question

Scroll up to the last FBD. All forces on the plane cancel out. F = 0. a = 0. What happens ?

Was the airplane in motion when this happened or are we going to assume (no joke here) that it was beamed into the environment that way.
 
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

telsarbg

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #262 on: July 24, 2017, 04:55:30 AM »
Was the airplane in motion when this happened or are we going to assume (no joke here) that it was beamed into the environment that way.

It's in motion since it has thrusted to take off.

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #263 on: July 24, 2017, 05:00:22 AM »
Was the airplane in motion when this happened or are we going to assume (no joke here) that it was beamed into the environment that way.

It's in motion since it has thrusted to take off.

Is their wind blowing on the airplane and in which direction relative to the airplane
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

telsarbg

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #264 on: July 24, 2017, 05:02:37 AM »
Is their wind blowing on the airplane and in which direction relative to the airplane

No wind.. So what happens ?

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InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #265 on: July 24, 2017, 05:17:54 AM »
If their is no wind, then the law of conservation of momentum in all three axis, x, y, and z will come in effect.

This is nothing more than a zeppelin balloon.

And on a spherical Earth, since the lift will be equal to the gravity and the gravity will not be able to synchronize it with the earth's rotation, it will fly into space, do to momentum.


To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

*

InFlatEarth

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #266 on: July 24, 2017, 05:20:48 AM »
i forgot to say that the air pressure will be constant on the whole surface of the balloon and will not be able to "pilot" it to any other direction, expect the direction on it's momentum take it in a straight line, not a curved line but a straight line.
To simply dismiss the concept of God as being unscientific is to violate the very objectivity of science itself.

My experiences with science led me to God.

The Truth Will Set You Free

Werner Von Braun

?

telsarbg

  • 107
  • +0/-0
Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #267 on: July 24, 2017, 05:30:20 AM »
If their is no wind, then the law of conservation of momentum in all three axis, x, y, and z will come in effect.

This is nothing more than a zeppelin balloon.

Alright. It's going to fly straight, while keeping the same speed. An object in motion with no acceleration will, by definition, retain the same speed.

Do you understand that this is what happens to all airliners ? Once they have the correct heading, altitude, and speed, they just cruise until it's time to land. They try to keep their acceleration close to 0. Of course there might be tiny corrections (from pilot or autopilot) to achieve that. But for all intents and purposes, they have a straight uniform motion.

So the FBD of a cruising plane actually shows none of these forces applied to it. Showing them or not is exactly the same thing, since they sum up to 0.

That's why the diagram proposed by the pilot answers your question :


Even if you want to draw thrust / drag / lift / weight on top of it, it is the same thing, they cancel out. This diagram is the answer to your question. So stop asking for it... You have been answered.

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telsarbg

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #268 on: July 24, 2017, 05:36:44 AM »
And on a spherical Earth, since the lift will be equal to the gravity and the gravity will not be able to synchronize it with the earth's rotation, it will fly into space, do to momentum.

I didn't answer this because this is too unclear, even for you. You're mixing up your own arguments.

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JackBlack

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Re: Spherical Earth disproved for once and for all!!!
« Reply #269 on: July 24, 2017, 05:41:04 AM »
Bullshit, prove it, download the document and show me where it is!!!
I'm talking about a real one, with an actual gyroscope.
The link you have is to make a fake one, where it is controlled by servos instead of a gyroscope. The instructions are to basically take the gyro out and discard it.

read the articular, but as usual, you attack before you read. it takes an actual gyroscope from an commercial airplane and makes it into a fake one for a computer game!!
Perhaps you should read what I have said?
It takes an attitude indicator, and simply discards the gyroscope. It doesn't look at the internal workings of it as it isn't interested in that.
It would be akin to you saying there can't be a spinning disk inside a HDD, as the repair manuals just tell you to take it out and put in a new one.

If I was to post an experiment, that I don't know the outcome,  that we could all do and it deals with our eyesight and the moon, but the results might disprove NASA, would you do it?
That would depend upon what it would take to do the experiment, and if you were willing to accept the data if it indicates that Earth is roudn and spinning? If you aren't I see no reason to do it as I have already analysed both the RE model and FE model and found numerous flaws in the FE model which are not present in the RE model, while the RE model can withstand scruitiny.

Should I post it in the debate section?
That would be more for if you do the experiment and provide the results to show one way or the other. I think the better section would be in the Tech & Science section.