Dogmatic Atheism

If you honestly think the voices in your head are proof of a god, I suggest you get a CAT scan.

Interestingly, I'm not convinced that you even read what I wrote, as I was clearly showing that although a perceived conversation with a god is 'evidence' of the existence of that god, the conversation is most likely a trick of the mind, and thus, the evidence for that god doesn't add up to a theistic belief.  But nice try, Master... :roll:

Once again, there is evidence for the existence of a god, but the evidence might be better explained by another means.

If the evidence could be explained by theory A, but can be better and more simple explained be theory B, it can't properly be said to be evidence for theory A at all.

It seems to me that it can be called evidence still.  For example, lets say I walk outside and see a red dragon (I experience it phenomenologically).  In seeing this dragon, I have a reason to believe there is a dragon there.  There's evidence (though most likely only evidence for myself) that there is, indeed, a dragon.  Yet later on, when I think back to the dragon, I start thinking that perhaps what I saw was just a hallucination.  That certainly makes more sense.  Yet this inference to the best explanation doesn't mean that I don't have any evidence to believe that I really saw a dragon (because the phenomenological appearance of the dragon itself constitutes evidence).

But a gut feeling that 'something must be there' isn't quite the same as an actual sensory perception.

Why are you discussing God here? There is no proof so on what does everybody base their arguments? Assumptions? Belief? Please stop it.
This is just something you can't go discussing.

That's ridiculous.  We don't have proof that invisable midget pandas don't exist either, but nobody believs that they do.  Many of us are basing this discussion on the evidence we see for the religion theory - and we're atheists.  Some of the people are basing this discussion on their illogical emotions - and they are superstitious people.

We, as humans, excist only to have sex and
keep our species alive, the rest is just there
to make life easier and more enjoyable.

Your signature is hilarious.  If you understood anything about evolution you would know that we do not "excist" [sic] for the purpose of having sex or keeping our species alive at all.  The idea that this is we exist to do anything is ludicrious and has absolutely no evidence to support it.  The fact is that we exist because we have sex, not to have sex - that's a fairly significant difference.  Science shows that we do not exist for a purpose, but rather because we're good at existing we continue to exist.  You might as well say that the purose of rain is to fall towards the ground.

purpose? mhmm, interesting word. Our purpose depends on our nature, and our nature is created by how we think and the choices we make. The purpose of rain, is simply to rain, for that is the nature of rain.

This is just something you can't go discussing.

Says who?

Quote from: "Sanirius"

This is just something you can't go discussing.

Says who?

Well ok, you can discuss it all you want. But it wont lead to anything.

That's ridiculous.  We don't have proof that invisable midget pandas don't exist either, but nobody believs that they do.  Many of us are basing this discussion on the evidence we see for the religion theory - and we're atheists.  Some of the people are basing this discussion on their illogical emotions - and they are superstitious people.

Quote

We, as humans, excist only to have sex and
keep our species alive, the rest is just there
to make life easier and more enjoyable.

Your signature is hilarious.  If you understood anything about evolution you would know that we do not "excist" [sic] for the purpose of having sex or keeping our species alive at all.  The idea that this is we exist to do anything is ludicrious and has absolutely no evidence to support it.  The fact is that we exist because we have sex, not to have sex - that's a fairly significant difference.  Science shows that we do not exist for a purpose, but rather because we're good at existing we continue to exist.  You might as well say that the purose of rain is to fall towards the ground.

Nope, we excist to have sex. Thats how it is in nature, thats how its allways going to be. Everything else.. like in my sig, is just to make life easier.

Nope, we excist to have sex. Thats how it is in nature, thats how its allways going to be. Everything else.. like in my sig, is just to make life easier.

Nature isn't intelligent, and therefore doesn't have a reason for creating us. In order for the Human race to have a purpose, there would have to be some kind of intelligent creator.

The purpose of rain, is simply to rain, for that is the nature of rain.

are you being sarcastic? cos you should know by now (assuming you have experienced geography lessons in school at some point) that it rains for a reason, and it is not simply to rain.  water is evapourated from the ocean/sea, turned into clouds, clouds cant cope with the amount of moisture residing within them, and they have to rain inorder to get rid of it (this is called the "hydrologic cycle").  this helps to sustain life on the planet.

Well ok, you can discuss it all you want. But it wont lead to anything.

Yes it will.  It will lead to a rational conversation about our religions that needs to be carried out.  Many people, when forced to give reasons for believing in their specific God, find that the best reasons they have are tradition and the assumption that the Bible is the 'Word of God'.  If this is the case, any subsequent deep thought by that person will reveal that he/she does not believe in God any more than he/she believes in Hercules.  Then that person will probably stop discriminating against homosexuals, electing people into office that are bent on destroying the world, and giving their money to the church (the money, after all, can be spent in a much more humanitarian way).  There are many reasons to discuss religion and God.

Quote from: "beast"

Your signature is hilarious.  If you understood anything about evolution you would know that we do not "excist" [sic] for the purpose of having sex or keeping our species alive at all.  The idea that this is we exist to do anything is ludicrious and has absolutely no evidence to support it.  The fact is that we exist because we have sex, not to have sex - that's a fairly significant difference.  Science shows that we do not exist for a purpose, but rather because we're good at existing we continue to exist.  You might as well say that the purose of rain is to fall towards the ground.

Nope, we excist to have sex. Thats how it is in nature, thats how its allways going to be. Everything else.. like in my sig, is just to make life easier.

Read that part of his post again a few more times, and never post again.

Quote from: "Sanirius"

Nope, we excist to have sex. Thats how it is in nature, thats how its allways going to be. Everything else.. like in my sig, is just to make life easier.

Nature isn't intelligent, and therefore doesn't have a reason for creating us. In order for the Human race to have a purpose, there would have to be some kind of intelligent creator.

Ok tell me, what does every organism do eventually in its life? It reproduces. Why? To keep its species alive.

How is that the purpose of life, though?  Life didn't start just so it could reproduce.  It only continues because it does reproduce.  You don't seem to understand the meaning of the words "meaning" and "purpose."

How is that the purpose of life, though?  Life didn't start just so it could reproduce.  It only continues because it does reproduce.  You don't seem to understand the meaning of the words "meaning" and "purpose."

What else could it be?

That's not answering the question.  Explain to me how reproduction is the purpose of life.

That's not answering the question.  Explain to me how reproduction is the purpose of life.

Because if you don't (at all, so nobody on earth), your species would get extinct, luckily evolution "thought" of that and made us some nice organs for reproduction.
Nothing else can be the purpose of life, it would fall under the category "Making life easier and/or more enjoyable"

Life did not begin just to reproduce.  You still don't understand what "purpose" means.

Take this hypothetical situation, then.  Some time in the future, say that we have augmented ourselves with nano- and bio-technology which allows us to live indefinitely.  We no longer have the need to reproduce, as it is no longer necessary to further the species.

What is the purpose to life then?

Life did not begin just to reproduce.  You still don't understand what "purpose" means.

Take this hypothetical situation, then.  Some time in the future, say that we have augmented ourselves with nano- and bio-technology which allows us to live indefinitely.  We no longer have the need to reproduce, as it is no longer necessary to further the species.

What is the purpose to life then?

To live forever.
As we cant do that now, we must reproduce, so our species CAN live forever.

Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"

Life did not begin just to reproduce.  You still don't understand what "purpose" means.

Take this hypothetical situation, then.  Some time in the future, say that we have augmented ourselves with nano- and bio-technology which allows us to live indefinitely.  We no longer have the need to reproduce, as it is no longer necessary to further the species.

What is the purpose to life then?

To live forever.
As we cant do that now, we must reproduce, so our species CAN live forever.

Why can't the purpose be simply to live?

Quote from: "Sanirius"

Quote from: "thedigitalnomad"

Life did not begin just to reproduce.  You still don't understand what "purpose" means.

Take this hypothetical situation, then.  Some time in the future, say that we have augmented ourselves with nano- and bio-technology which allows us to live indefinitely.  We no longer have the need to reproduce, as it is no longer necessary to further the species.

What is the purpose to life then?

To live forever.
As we cant do that now, we must reproduce, so our species CAN live forever.

Why can't the purpose be simply to live?

Because you will not live forever, but we can make sure mankind can.

You are thinking too specifically.  Humans aren't the only creatures in existence, you know.

If you want to do specifics, what is the purpose of life for a mule?  Mules, for the most part, can't reproduce.  Do these creatures have no purpose?  What about people who are born without the ability to reproduce, in whatever case?  Do these people have no purpose?  They're obviously worthless for furthering the species, so should we just kill them because they have no purpose for living?

You are thinking too specifically.  Humans aren't the only creatures in existence, you know.

If you want to do specifics, what is the purpose of life for a mule?  Mules, for the most part, can't reproduce.  Do these creatures have no purpose?  What about people who are born without the ability to reproduce, in whatever case?  Do these people have no purpose?  They're obviously worthless for furthering the species, so should we just kill them because they have no purpose for living?

In every species there are exeptions that cant do like the rest. No we should not kill them. (wtf? of course not)
But for "the human" generally the purpose is to reproduce.
As for Mules, thats probably one of nature's mistakes xD

In every species there are exeptions that cant do like the rest. No we should not kill them. (wtf? of course not)
But for "the human" generally the purpose is to reproduce.
As for Mules, thats probably one of nature's mistakes xD

But those people obviously have no purpose of living if they can't reproduce, according to your proposal.

Which means that your proposal does not hold true.  Life's purpose is not to reproduce, if many lifeforms cannot.

Quote from: "Sanirius"

In every species there are exeptions that cant do like the rest. No we should not kill them. (wtf? of course not)
But for "the human" generally the purpose is to reproduce.
As for Mules, thats probably one of nature's mistakes xD

But those people obviously have no purpose of living if they can't reproduce, according to your proposal.

Which means that your proposal does not hold true.  Life's purpose is not to reproduce, if many lifeforms cannot.

But many lifeforms cant because there is something wrong with them. Because reproduction should be possible.
As for those who can't reproduce they have nothing else to do but to enjoy life xD

As for those of us that can reproduce, we can enjoy life while we reproduce

The word is spelt exist!!!!!  You're obviously not making a typo, so I wanted to point that out so I don't have to look at "excist" every time you post.

You're clearly wrong and clearly won't be convinced because you have a dogmatic belief that we are here for the purpose of sex, so instead of trying to convince you, I suggest you read some books about evolution.  Probably the most highly regarded book on the subject (apart from Origin) is The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins (which I haven't read yet, but have on my bookshelf).  It's obvious that you've never studied evolution, so instead of debating this issue, I suggest you try to learn more about the subject, at least so we can be on the same page.

He probably understands the theory, but is not using the language correctly.

Purpose is defined as working towards something.  Humanity is not working for something else, if it already contains all that it can be.  You could say that our culture has a purpose, but even then, culture would have to be controlled in order to yield a specific result.  Hell, even when you take science as a whole, there is no purpose as everyone is doing research or conducting experiments for different reasons.  In the end, the individual decides the purposes (or lack thereof) of their own actions, and to speak of the 'purpose' of humanity, or the 'purpose' of culture is not very useful at all.

However, it does appear that human beings are adept at reproducing (hell, that may be the only thing we have a natural aptitude for) but that does not mean it is our purpose.  Purpose is a human thing, and it is decided by each individual.  Your purpose may be to reproduce, (lol) but that does not mean that every person's purpose is to reproduce.  My purpose (chosen by myself) is to enjoy life, and to enjoy it in the company of others who enjoy it.  Eventually, I would like to enjoy the company of my children.  Eventually, I would like to enjoy the company of my grand children, but:

1. I do not have children simply for the sake of having children.
2. I do not have children simply for the sake of having grand children.

Do not begin to think that life has any higher purpose, especially not reproduction.  Life just is.  Enjoy it.  Or don't.  Nobody will choose for you, and if you decide to pursue another goal, nodoby will choose that goal for you.

He probably understands the theory, but is not using the language correctly.

Purpose is defined as working towards something.  Humanity is not working for something else, if it already contains all that it can be.  You could say that our culture has a purpose, but even then, culture would have to be controlled in order to yield a specific result.  Hell, even when you take science as a whole, there is no purpose as everyone is doing research or conducting experiments for different reasons.  In the end, the individual decides the purposes (or lack thereof) of their own actions, and to speak of the 'purpose' of humanity, or the 'purpose' of culture is not very useful at all.

However, it does appear that human beings are adept at reproducing (hell, that may be the only thing we have a natural aptitude for) but that does not mean it is our purpose.  Purpose is a human thing, and it is decided by each individual.  Your purpose may be to reproduce, (lol) but that does not mean that every person's purpose is to reproduce.  My purpose (chosen by myself) is to enjoy life, and to enjoy it in the company of others who enjoy it.  Eventually, I would like to enjoy the company of my children.  Eventually, I would like to enjoy the company of my grand children, but:

1. I do not have children simply for the sake of having children.
2. I do not have children simply for the sake of having grand children.

Do not begin to think that life has any higher purpose, especially not reproduction.  Life just is.  Enjoy it.  Or don't.  Nobody will choose for you, and if you decide to pursue another goal, nodoby will choose that goal for you.

Astantia wins the thread.  Flawless victory.