The Earth was scientifically proven to be flat over a 100 year ago

Two of the fundermental priciples of the strange Heliocentric Religion  are Einsteins theory of relativity and the movement of the Globe through space this was proven to be false over a 100 years ago by Georges Sagnac and Michaelson  Morley.

Michaelson Morley proved the earth to be stationary and Georges Sagnac proved the existence of the aether that Einstein's theory of special relativity had discarded.

Many modern Aircraft use gyroscopes based on the Sagnac experiments.

Scientists at the time chose to ignore the results of the scientific experiments mentioned above that can be repeated and produce the same results everytime this is known as verification.

This is a strange word to most people in the Heliocentric Religion as none of your fundermental priciples can be verified with the same repeatable accuracy as the above experiments.

This is proof that some scientists choose to ignore evidence that doesn't fit in with their religious doctrine.

As your Religion is based on Hypothesis and theory and NOT verification.

I have provided a link that gives a good description of both experiments.



Your Heliocentric Religion is false.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on July 04, 2017, 11:12:20 PM

Racist lol I'm of Dual Heritage. It's obvious he doesn't understand what is being said.

That's not surprising with the trash that you post.

Well, there are all those pesky satellites, and photos of a round globe earth, but I'm certain we're all just "indoctrinated"!

I just want to state that it strikes me how many flat earthers just do not understand the difference between geocentrism and flat earth. Even if the OP was right, what does that have to do with the shape of the earth?

Two of the fundermental priciples of the strange Heliocentric Religion  are Einsteins theory of relativity and the movement of the Globe through space this was proven to be false over a 100 years ago by Georges Sagnac and Michaelson  Morley.

Michaelson Morley proved the earth to be stationary and Georges Sagnac proved the existence of the aether that Einstein's theory of special relativity had discarded.

No, Michelson and Morley did not prove the earth to be stationary! They found inconclusive evidence that:

• The earth might be stationary - they did not get a conclusive zero result or
• the ether might be partially dragged by the earth or
• there simply is no ether!

Georges Sagnac never performed any experiment that proved the existence of the aether that Einstein's theory of special relativity had discarded.
The Sagnac Interferometer is completely in accord with Einstein's SR, though it does not need SR to explain it.

Many modern Aircraft use gyroscopes based on the Sagnac experiments.

True, they do use laser ring gyros and these same instruments prove that the earth is rotating!
I think you really shot yourself in the foot.

Scientists at the time chose to ignore the results of the scientific experiments mentioned above that can be repeated and produce the same results everytime this is known as verification.

Totally incorrect, not only do they not ignore the results, Michelson-Morley type experiments have been performed many times with ever increasing precision.

This is a strange word to most people in the Heliocentric Religion as none of your fundermental priciples can be verified with the same repeatable accuracy as the above experiments.
This is proof that some scientists choose to ignore evidence that doesn't fit in with their religious doctrine.
As your Religion is based on Hypothesis and theory and NOT verification.

Again, totally incorrect and if you had the honesty to actually do some research yourself, instead of religiously following your False High Priests of the YouTube of Flat Earth Deceit you might realise this.
Read all about the further experiments in Michelson–Morley experiment, Subsequent experiments.

I have provided a link that gives a good description of both experiments.

Ho you haven't! It's a crappy, decietful video that takes no notice of what Michelson himself said and totallu distorts the Sagnac Effect.

Your Heliocentric Religion is false.

Instead of looking at trash from your High Priests on YouTube why not look at what Michelson himself said about the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment.

I can accept the correct, consistent interpretation of well performed experiments, such as the
I suggest that you read some of what Michelson himself said,
This is with reference to the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment to measure the earth's rotation using the Sagnac Effect, but is very relevant.

As mentioned above, as early as 1904 Michelson had proposed using such a device to measure the rotation of the earth, but he hadn't pursued the idea, since measurements of absolute rotation are fairly commonplace (e.g. Focault’s pendulum). Nevertheless, he (along with Gale) agreed to perform the experiment in 1925 (at considerable cost) at the urging of "relativists", who wished him to verify the shift of 236/1000 of a fringe predicted by special relativity. This was intended mainly to refute the theory of an ether fully dragged around with the spinning earth, as well as the only physically plausible ballistic theory of light propagation, both of which predict zero phase shift (for a circular device). Michelson was not enthusiastic, since classical optics on the assumption of a stationary ether predicted exactly the same shift does special relativity (as explained above). He said,
         "We will undertake this, although my conviction is strong that we shall prove only that
          the earth rotates on its axis, a conclusion which I think we may be said to be sure of already."
As Harvey lime wrote in his biographical sketch of Michelson, "The experiment, performed on the prairies west of Chicago, showed a displacement of 230/1000, in very close agreement with the prediction. The rotation of the Earth received another independent proof, the theory of relativity another verification. But neither fact had much significance." Michelson himself wrote that "this result may be considered as an additional evidence in favor of relativity - or equally as evidence of a stationary ether".
From Math Pages, 2.7  The Sagnac Effect

Note that Michelson himself claims that the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment  is
But note that the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment So the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment shows that the earth rotates, that is the earth not stationary.
But the Michelson-Morely experiment shows that either there is no ether or that the earth is stationary.
I don't care what your High Priests in the Temple of YouTube claim
if you look to Michelson, Morely or Gale for support or you will fall flat on your face!
While Einstein did not base his theories on the Michelson-Morely experiment, it does give a good confirmation of SR.

The Michelson-Morely experiment did not have enough resolution to give conclusive evidence, but modern experiments, leave no doubt.
Read more in Michelson–Morley experiment, Subsequent experiments.

It is becoming obvious that you have no real understanding of what you are talking about and you simply parrot the words of your High Priests on YouTube.

Michelson-Morley experiment = Proof of a Stationary Earth

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1780340#msg1780340 (full details)


Georges Sagnac never performed any experiment that proved the existence of the aether that Einstein's theory of special relativity had discarded.
The Sagnac Interferometer is completely in accord with Einstein's SR, though it does not need SR to explain it.

Let us put your statement to the test.

The Sagnac effect is far larger than the effect forecast by relativity theory.

STR has no possible function in explaining the Sagnac effect.

The Sagnac effect is a non-relativistic effect.

COMPARISON OF THE SAGNAC EFFECT WITH SPECIAL RELATIVITY, starts on page 7, calculations/formulas on page 8

http://www.naturalphilosophy.org/pdf/ebooks/Kelly-TimeandtheSpeedofLight.pdf

page 8

Because many investigators claim that the
Sagnac effect is made explicable by using the
Theory of Special Relativity, a comparison of
that theory with the actual test results is given
below. It will be shown that the effects
calculated under these two theories are of very
different orders of magnitude, and that
therefore the Special Theory is of no value in
trying to explain the effect.

COMPARISON OF THE SAGNAC EFFECT WITH STR

STR stipulates that the time t' recorded by an observer moving at velocity v is slower than the time t_o recorded by a stationary observer, according to:

t_o = t'γ

where γ = (1 - v²/c²)^-1/2 = 1 + v²/2c² + O(v/c)⁴...

t_o = t'(1 + v²/2c²)


dt_R = (t_o - t')/t_o = v²/(v² + 2c²)

dt_R = relativity time ratio



Now, t_o - t' = 2πr/c - 2πr/(c + v) = 2πrv/(c + v)c

dt' = t_o - t' = t_ov/(c + v)


dt_S = (t_o - t')/t_o = v/(v + c)


dt_S = Sagnac ratio


dt_S/dt_R = (2c² + v²)/v(v + c)

When v is small as compared to c, as is the case in all practical experiments, this ratio
reduces to 2c/v.


Thus the Sagnac effect is far larger than any
purely Relativistic effect. For example,
considering the data in the Pogany test (8 ),
where the rim of the disc was moving with a
velocity of 25 m/s, the ratio dtS/dtR is about
1.5 x 10^7. Any attempt to explain the Sagnac
as a Relativistic effect is thus useless, as it is
smaller by a factor of 10^7.


Referring back to equation (I), consider a disc
of radius one kilometre. In this case a fringe
shift of one fringe is achieved with a velocity
at the perimeter of the disc of 0.013m/s. This
is an extremely low velocity, being less than
lm per minute. In this case the Sagnac effect
would be 50 billion times larger than the
calculated effect under the Relativity Theory.


True, they do use laser ring gyros and these same instruments prove that the earth is rotating!

The rotation of the telluric currents/ether strings/wind/drift above the surface of the flat Earth affects the light signal: the difference in time is the Sagnac effect.


Dr. Dayton Miller ether drift results: "The measurements were latitude-dependent as well."

http://www.orgonelab.org/miller.htm


Dr. Yuri Galaev ether drift results:

ETHERAL WIND IN EXPERIENCE OF MILLIMETRIC RADIOWAVES PROPAGATION

http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/blackprior/galaev/galaev-1.pdf

journal pgs 211-225

The expression (28) enables by the results [5, 6], obtained at the altitude ZM, to calculate high-altitude speed relation of the ethereal wind WM (Z) at the latitude φM. (pg. 217)

On page 218 we can find the complete formula (28), (30) (see also (35) and page 223).


"Basically, a laser is fired through a half-silvered mirror. Half the light goes one way around a large coiled loop, and half the light goes the other way. They are then recombined and interfered. Due to rotation, after the light goes through in either direction, the wavelength of light will be slightly shifted for each direction. This will establish a beat frequency on the detector which is proportional to the angular velocity of the ring laser gyroscope."

"Ring lasers are inertial rotation sensors using the Sagnac effect, which is the frequency splitting of two counter-rotating laser beams due to rotation (Sagnac 1913)."


A ring laser gyroscope will record the effect of the ether drift/strings upon the laser beams: the Sagnac effect.



ORBITAL SAGNAC EFFECT

Let Δt _o= the sagnac correction for the earth's orbital path

Let Δt _r= the sagnac correction for the earth's rotational path

RE claim: Δt_o/Δt _r= 1/365

[4A_oω_o/( c² - v_o²)] / [4A_rω_r/( c² - v_r²)]
[A_oω_o/( c² - v_o²)] / [A_rω_r/( c² - v_r²)]

Obviously, ( c² - v_o²) and ( c² - v_r²) are very close to the same number, so let's lave them off.

A_oω_o/ A_rω_r
A_o = πR_o²
A_r = πR_r²

So, πR_o² ω_o / πR_r² ω_r

R_o² ω_o / R_r² ω_r.



Earth's radius = 6357 km; r² = 40411449

Earth's orbital radius = 150,000,000 km r² = 22500000000000000

∆t = 4πR²ω/(c²-v²)
or

I use the linear velocity.

∆t = 4πRv/( c² - v² ), where v is the linear velocity.

For the earth's rotation, it is 0.4638333 km/ sec and the orbit v = 30km/sec.

∆t = 0.62831852628 for the earth's orbit.
Total path of the orbit is 2πr=2π(150,000,000 km) = 942,477,780km

Hence, the sagnac effect for a 1 km path, that means light source in the center and two receivers placed at .5km is:
0.62831852628 / 942,477,780km = 6.6666667 e-10 sec / km

Now, for the earth's rotation.
∆t = 4.1170061 e-7 seconds
Total path of the rotation is 2πr=2π(6357 km) = 39942.21 km


4.1170061 e-7 seconds / 39942.21 km = 1.0307407 e-11 sec / km


The sagnac effect for the earth's orbit is greater than that of the rotation.



The orbital Sagnac, though much larger than the rotational Sagnac, is not being registered by GPS satellites.


Therefore ring laser gyroscopes register the effect of ether drift above the stationary Earth, and not any rotation at all.


In addition, the orbital solar gravitational potential is not being registered either by the GPS satellites' clocks.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846706#msg1846706


Thus, the hypotheses of the Ruderfer experiment are totally fulfilled:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721

Why is there no requirement for a Sagnac correction due to the earth’s orbital motion? Like the transit time in the spinning Mossbauer experiments, any such effect would be completely canceled by the orbital-velocity effect on the satellite clocks.



rabinoz: go and learn some real physics before posting nonsense.

Read more in Michelson–Morley experiment, Subsequent experiments.

What?

Dr. Dayton Miller proved long ago the existence of periodic waves of telluric currents (ether):



PERIODICITY OF GLOBAL ETHER-DRIFT, from Dayton Miller's Mount Wilson Ether-Drift Experiments, 1925-26. The Top Graph above plots data from four separate months or epochs, measured at different times of the year and organized by sidereal time, showing a definite periodic curve. The heavy line is the mean of all four epochs. The Bottom Graph (above) plots the same data organized by civil clock time coordinates; here, the plotted data spreads out along the graph, without apparent periodicity. This demonstrates, the detected axis and periodicity of ether drift is the same for different times of year, but can only be seen when the data is viewed within a cosmological, sidereal coordinate system. (From Miller 1928, p.362)

"The effect [of ether-drift] has persisted throughout. After considering all the possible sources of error, there always remained a positive effect." Dayton Miller (1928, p.399)

http://www.orgonelab.org/miller.htm

Dayton Miller's 1933 paper in Reviews of Modern Physics details the positive results from over 20 years of experimental research into the question of ether-drift, and remains the most definitive body of work on the subject of light-beam interferometry.


As a graduate of physics from Princeton University, President of the American Physical Society and Acoustical Society of America, Chairman of the Division of Physical Sciences of the National Research Council, Chairman of the Physics Department of Case School of Applied Science (today Case Western Reserve University), and Member of the National Academy of Sciences well known for his work in acoustics, Miller was no "outsider". While he was alive, he produced a series of papers presenting solid data on the existence of a measurable ether-drift, and he successfully defended his findings to not a small number of critics, including Einstein.

"The effect [of ether-drift] has persisted throughout. After considering all the possible sources of error, there always remained a positive effect." — Dayton Miller (1928, p.399)

"My opinion about Miller's experiments is the following. ... Should the positive result be confirmed, then the special theory of relativity and with it the general theory of relativity, in its current form, would be invalid. Experimentum summus judex. Only the equivalence of inertia and gravitation would remain, however, they would have to lead to a significantly different theory."
— Albert Einstein, in a letter to Edwin E. Slosson, 8 July 1925 (from copy in Hebrew University Archive, Jerusalem


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1722791#msg1722791

Yuri Galaev, Ph.D.; Senior research officer of the Institute for Radiophysics & Electronics National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, and corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences (RANS)

The most significant development since Miller has been the
experiments of Yuri Galaev of the Institute of Radiophysics and
Electronics in the Ukraine. Galaev made independent measure-
ments of ether-drift using radiofrequency and optical wave
bands. His research not only "confirmed Miller's results down
to the details"but also allowed computation of the increase of
ether-drift with altitude above the Earth's surface (calculated to
be 8.6 m/sec per meter of altitude).

http://www.orgonelab.org/EtherDrift/Galaev2.pdf

http://www.orgonelab.org/EtherDrift/Galaev.pdf


All the attempts in order to repeat Miller's experiment were performed by the devices, which were placed in metallic chambers. R.D. Kennedy increased the interferometer sensitivity. The device was placed in the pressurized metallic chamber. The measurements were conducted at the same altitudes. The bands displacement was not observed. K.K. Illingworth improved Kennedy's device, but also these measurements showed a zero result. E. Stahel placed an interferometer in the metallic chamber, i.e. thermostat, and raised it in an air balloon up to the altitude 2500 m. The required effect was not observed.

The physical shielding phenomenon interpretation was given by V.A. Atsukovsky for the first time, having explained it by the fact, that the electrons in metals will create so- called "Fermi's surface".


"The Michelson-Gale experiment of 1925 [A.A. Michelson and H. Gale, "The effect
of the Earth's Rotation on the Velocity of Light," The Astrophysical Journal,
Vol LXI, No. 3, April 1925, pp. 137-145] measured a difference in the speed of
light at two different latitudes. He concluded that the aether-wind speed
changed with latitude due to the rotation of the Earth in a stationary aether.
(This is because the radius of rotation decreases with increasing latitude).
This experiment disproves the constancy of the speed of light assumption and
provides adequate evidence for the existence of the aether, just as Georges
Sagnac found. Dalton Miller did even more comprehensive studies to confirm
these results. There is quite a collection of letters between Einstein and
Miller in which the former is trying to persuade the latter not to put credit
in the results.

Heliocentrists might be tempted to say that Michelson-Gale provides "proof" of
the rotation of the Earth, but that would be presumptuous. The only thing
Michelson-Gale provided for us is that either the Earth is moving with respect
to an aether, or the aether is moving against a stationary Earth."

Thank you Sandokhan

For exposing the deliberate "Lies"  "misdirection" and dis-info that Old man Rab and his colleugues constantly provide.

This shows that these Heliocentric's know no bounderies when it comes to defending their Strange Religion.

As I have been saying from the first day I posted on here:

Relativity is one of the fundermental principles of the Heliocentric religion.

The Globe spinning and wobbling through space is one of the fundermental principles of the Heliocentric Religion.

Both of these theorys have "Never" been verified.

When a true scientist conducts a real scientific experiment. (One that can be repeatably verified)

These theorys are easily proven to be false.

People who believe in things that have not been verified are religious  and as such your Heliocentric Globe Model is nothing but a religious cult.

As I have highlighted before people who are telling the truth or even think they are telling the truth have no need to employ the use of misdirection and dis-info the mere use of these methods speaks volumes about the Globe Believers who employ the said methods and their Religion.

The difference between your Stange Heliocentric Religion and most of the monotheistic Religions is that your Religion has been scientifically proven to be FALSE.



#Shutdown

Michelson-Morley experiment = Proof of a Stationary Earth

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1780340#msg1780340 (full details)

Really? Sagnac Interferometers prove the earth's rotation. Don't blame me for your ignorance!

Georges Sagnac never performed any experiment that proved the existence of the aether that Einstein's theory of special relativity had discarded.
The Sagnac Interferometer is completely in accord with Einstein's SR, though it does not need SR to explain it.
Let us put your statement to the test.
The Sagnac effect is far larger than the effect forecast by relativity theory.

No it isn't!

STR has no possible function in explaining the Sagnac effect.

The Sagnac effect is a non-relativistic effect.

COMPARISON OF THE SAGNAC EFFECT WITH SPECIAL RELATIVITY, starts on page 7, calculations/formulas on page 8

The Sagnac Effect can be analyse by classical optics or Einstein'd SR - same answers!

http://www.naturalphilosophy.org/pdf/ebooks/Kelly-TimeandtheSpeedofLight.pdf

page 8

Because many investigators claim that the Sagnac effect is made explicable by using the Theory of Special Relativity, a comparison of
that theory with the actual test results is given below. It will be shown that the effects calculated under these two theories are of very
different orders of magnitude, and that therefore the Special Theory is of no value in trying to explain the effect.

Now that's funny, because in 2.7  The Sagnac Effect we find

Both pulses begin with an initial separation of 2pR from the end point, so the difference between the travel times is

where A = pR² is the area enclosed by the loop. The corresponding phase difference for light of frequency n radians/second (in the rest frame of the center of rotation) is simply D_f = nD_t, and since n = 2pc/l, the phase difference can be written as (8pAcw/l)/(c² – v²).
 
This analysis is perfectly valid in both the classical and the relativistic contexts. Of course, the result represents the time difference with respect to the axis-centered inertial frame. A clock attached to the perimeter of the ring would, according to special relativity, record a lesser time, by the factor g = (1-(v/c)²)^1/2, so the Sagnac delay with respect to such a clock would be [4Aw/c²]/(1-(v/c)²)^1/2.

Though I did note that Kelly says:

Sagnac showed experimentally that the centre of rotation can be away from the geometric
centre of the apparatus, without affecting the above result.

From: TIME and the SPEED of LIGHT - a NEW INTERPRETATION, A.G.Kelly

Which really puts the kibosh on you interpretation of the "Orbital Sagnac Effect", so nice to know.
Bye bye any massive orbital Sagnac Effect.

So for the moment I'll ignore your pages of rambling copy-pasta.

rabinoz: go and learn some real physics Sandokhanian fyzix before posting nonsense any real physics.

FTFY

I find it hilarious that the references you quote from, even the questionable ones all seem to be quite convinced of the Heliocentric Globe.

With Kelly suggesting the possibility of performing the Sagnac experiment, etc on the moon and reality of rockets.
I doubt that would work well in the Sandokhanian Universe - maybe you would be happier if you went back there.

You did read:

TESTS TO BE DONE
It would give confirmation of the theory in this paper were the following tests to be carried out.
1. A Michelson-Morley test on the moon, where there is no atmosphere. It would be interesting to determine whether the result is different from that on Earth.
2. A Sagnac test on the moon would show if the light travelled relative to fixed space, and ignored the movement of the moon.
3. Both of those tests repeated in space off a satellite or rocket.

You might also read: The relativistic Sagnac effect two derivations Guido Rizzi, and Matteo Luca Ruggiero

<<  Standby for incoming barrage! >>

rabinoz, when are you going to learn that it takes less than 15 seconds to debunk your messages?

You might also read: The relativistic Sagnac effect two derivations Guido Rizzi, and Matteo Luca Ruggiero

What?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846045#msg1846045

My messages include the very best information possible, ALWAYS.

There have been several attempts to try to explain the Sagnac effect, either using STR, GTR or other field theories.

J.H. Field (STR, time dilation), R. Klauber (NTO, non-time orthogonal metric in spacetime), A. Tartaglia/M.L. Ruggiero/G. Rizzi (flat spacetime, Aharonov-Bohm effect), P. Maraner/J.P. Zendri (Minkowski spacetime, Aharonov-Bohm effect), S.J.G. Gift (GTR), M.F. Yagan (cumulative Doppler effect using STR), A.G. Kelly (universal relativity), A. Sfarti (STR), F. Amador (Evans field theory), F. Selleri (specific set of spacetime transformations which lead directly to MLET, Modified Lorentz Ether Theory).

These authors do not seem understand that there is no such thing as the theory of relativity/spacetime continuum:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg769750#msg769750 (total demolition of STR/GTR)

The presence of the Sagnac effect  in the GPS system clearly shows that none of the explanations listed above are adequate, for the path of the radiation from the GPS satellite to the receiver clearly follows a straight line and the instantaneous velocity of the receiver (ether strings rotation) is not affected significantly by the radial acceleration during the instant of reception. This observation validates Ives' claim that the Sagnac effect is not caused by rotation.





Sagnac Interferometers prove the earth's rotation.

Since the ORBITAL SAGNAC EFFECT IS MISSING, the rotational Sagnac effect proves that it is the ether drift which rotates above the flat surface of the Earth.


The Sagnac Effect can be analyse by classical optics or Einstein'd SR - same answers!

There is no comparison between the Sagnac effect and STR. The Sagnac effect is a nonrelativistic effect.

COMPARISON OF THE SAGNAC EFFECT WITH STR

STR stipulates that the time t' recorded by an observer moving at velocity v is slower than the time t_o recorded by a stationary observer, according to:

t_o = t'γ

where γ = (1 - v²/c²)^-1/2 = 1 + v²/2c² + O(v/c)⁴...

t_o = t'(1 + v²/2c²)


dt_R = (t_o - t')/t_o = v²/(v² + 2c²)

dt_R = relativity time ratio



Now, t_o - t' = 2πr/c - 2πr/(c + v) = 2πrv/(c + v)c

dt' = t_o - t' = t_ov/(c + v)


dt_S = (t_o - t')/t_o = v/(v + c)


dt_S = Sagnac ratio


dt_S/dt_R = (2c² + v²)/v(v + c)

When v is small as compared to c, as is the case in all practical experiments, this ratio
reduces to 2c/v.


Thus the Sagnac effect is far larger than any
purely Relativistic effect. For example,
considering the data in the Pogany test (8 ),
where the rim of the disc was moving with a
velocity of 25 m/s, the ratio dtS/dtR is about
1.5 x 10^7. Any attempt to explain the Sagnac
as a Relativistic effect is thus useless, as it is
smaller by a factor of 10^7.


Referring back to equation (I), consider a disc
of radius one kilometre. In this case a fringe
shift of one fringe is achieved with a velocity
at the perimeter of the disc of 0.013m/s. This
is an extremely low velocity, being less than
lm per minute. In this case the Sagnac effect
would be 50 billion times larger than the
calculated effect under the Relativity Theory.


Sagnac showed experimentally that the centre of rotation can be away from the geometriccentre of the apparatus, without affecting the above result.

Sure there are situations where this theoretical result is to be applied, however the Earth-Moon-Sun system is NOT one of them.

Please read and learn:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1911899#msg1911899

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1917978#msg1917978


Since BOTH the orbital Sagnac effect and the solar gravitational potential effect upon the GPS satellites' clocks are missing, the hypotheses of the Ruderfer experiment are fulfilled.


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721

Why is there no requirement for a Sagnac correction due to the earth’s orbital motion? Like the transit time in the spinning Mossbauer experiments, any such effect would be completely canceled by the orbital-velocity effect on the satellite clocks.

rabinoz, when are you going to learn that it takes less than 15 seconds to debunk your messages?
Why is there no requirement for a Sagnac correction due to the earth’s orbital motion? Like the transit time in the spinning Mossbauer experiments, any such effect would be completely canceled by the orbital-velocity effect on the satellite clocks.

You are so predictable.
  It arrived right on time!   

But the orbital Sagnac is only about 1/365 of the rotational Sagnac. If you take the correct rotational period of the earth of one sidereal day it's already included.

Have you forgotten that your paper claimed

Sagnac showed experimentally that the centre of rotation can be away from the geometric centre of the apparatus, without affecting the above result.

From: TIME and the SPEED of LIGHT - a NEW INTERPRETATION, A.G.Kelly

Which really puts the kibosh on you interpretation of the "Orbital Sagnac Effect", so nice to know.
Bye bye any massive orbital Sagnac Effect.

So I'll ignore your pages of rambling copy-pasta.

If you think that your theories are so perfect and wonderful, get them published where everyone can see them.
You know full that all sorts of material if published, much questioning GR and modern ideas of gravitation.

But, you know that it's only in a little hole like this with no real experts that you can get away with such trash.

You are still here?

You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

But the orbital Sagnac is only about 1/365 of the rotational Sagnac.

Only an amateur could claim such an erroneous statement.

Read and learn.

The missing orbital Sagnac effect proves that the Earth is completely stationary.

What is the center of rotation for the orbit of the earth?

Here is the equation.

∆t = 4πRv / ( c² - v²) = 4Aω / ( c² - v²)

Where A = πR² and v = ωR

So, it is easy to calculate the orbital sagnac is more than 60 times that of the rotational.

But, A is based on R and according to mathpages, "circular loop of radius R".

http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm

Mathpages says one must use the center of rotation which is the sun.

It is a loop and the earth is moving along the loop in its orbit around the sun.

If light travels at one speed c, then as the earth supposedly moves in it's revolution loop at 30k/s, while light moves c through space, the unit at the equator at noon would move with the earth' rotation and the earth's revolution cutting the distance the signal must travel to meet the unit.


"Let's say the unit is at the equator and the satellite is low on the horizon in the east at noon.

That means the unit is traveling at the orbital speed of the earth at 67,000 MPH.

The satellite emits at one speed c in space. While the light travels through space toward the unit at c, the unit moves with the earth at 67,000 MPH. The unit cuts the distance that the light must travel.

This is not being seen by any experiements nor GPS."

Yet, this same logic applies and works with the earth's supposed rotation.


Published by the BULLETIN OF THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY, one of the most prestigious journals in the world today.

C.C. Su, "A Local-ether model of propagation of electromagnetic wave," in Bull. Am. Phys. Soc., vol. 45, no. 1, p. 637, Mar. 2000 (Minneapolis, Minnesota).

http://www.ee.nthu.edu.tw/ccsu/










Both the rotational and the orbital motions of the earth together with the orbital
motion of the target planet contribute to the Sagnac
effect. But the orbital motion of the sun has no effects
on the interplanetary propagation. On the other hand, as
the unique propagation frame in GPS and intercontinental
links is a geocentric inertial frame, the rotational motion
of the earth contributes to the Sagnac effect. But the orbital
motion of the earth around the sun and that of the
sun have no effects on the earthbound propagation. By
comparing GPS with interplanetary radar, it is seen that
there is a common Sagnac effect due to earth’s rotation
and a common null effect of the orbital motion of the sun
on wave propagation. However, there is a discrepancy in
the Sagnac effect due to earth’s orbital motion. Moreover,
by comparing GPS with the widely accepted interpretation
of the Michelson–Morley experiment, it is seen that
there is a common null effect of the orbital motions on
wave propagation, whereas there is a discrepancy in the
Sagnac effect due to earth’s rotation.


Based on this characteristic of uniqueness and switchability of the propagation frame,
we propose in the following section the local-ether model
of wave propagation to solve the discrepancies in the in-
fluences of earth’s rotational and orbital motions on the
Sagnac effect and to account for a wide variety of propagation
phenomena.


Anyway, the interplanetary Sagnac effect is due to
earth’s orbital motion around the sun as well as earth’s
rotation. Further, for the interstellar propagation where
the source is located beyond the solar system, the orbital
motion of the sun contributes to the interstellar Sagnac
effect as well.

Evidently, as expected, the proposed local-ether model
accounts for the Sagnac effect due to earth’s rotation and
the null effect of earth’s orbital motion in the earthbound
propagations in GPS and intercontinental microwave link
experiments. Meanwhile, in the interplanetary radar, it accounts
for the Sagnac effect due both to earth’s rotation
and to earth’s orbital motion around the sun.


Based on the local-ether model, the propagation is entirely
independent of the earth’s orbital motion around
the sun or whatever and the velocity v for such an earthbound
experiment is referred to an ECI frame and hence
is due to earth’s rotation alone. In the original proposal,
the velocity v was supposed to incorporate earth’s orbital
motion around the sun. Thus, at least, v²/c²
=~ 10^-8. Then the amplitude of the phase-difference variation
could be as large as π/3, when the wavelength is
0.6 µm and the path length is 10 m. However, as the velocity
v is the linear velocity due to earth’s rotation alone,
the round-trip Sagnac effect is as small as v²/c²∼ 10^-12 which is merely 10^-4 times that due to the orbital motion.


The Sagnac effect is a FIRST ORDER effect in v/c.

Even in the round-trip nature of the Sagnac effect, as it was applied in the Michelson-Morley experiment, thus becoming a second order effect within that context, we can see that the ORBITAL SAGNAC IS 10,000 TIMES GREATER than the rotational Sagnac effect.


Here is how to correctly calculate the orbital Sagnac effect:

Earth's radius = 6357 km; r² = 40411449

Earth's orbital radius = 150,000,000 km r² = 22500000000000000

∆t = 4πR²ω/(c²-v²)
or

I use the linear velocity.

∆t = 4πRv/( c² - v² ), where v is the linear velocity.

For the earth's rotation, it is 0.4638333 km/ sec and the orbit v = 30km/sec.

∆t = 0.62831852628 for the earth's orbit.
Total path of the orbit is 2πr=2π(150,000,000 km) = 942,477,780km

Hence, the sagnac effect for a 1 km path, that means light source in the center and two receivers placed at .5km is:
0.62831852628 / 942,477,780km = 6.6666667 e-10 sec / km

Now, for the earth's rotation.
∆t = 4.1170061 e-7 seconds
Total path of the rotation is 2πr=2π(6357 km) = 39942.21 km


4.1170061 e-7 seconds / 39942.21 km = 1.0307407 e-11 sec / km


The sagnac effect for the earth's orbit is greater than that of the rotation.



The orbital Sagnac, though much larger than the rotational Sagnac, is not being registered by GPS satellites.



The lunar laser ranging experiment is an astronomical version of the Sagnac experiment.

However, G. Sagnac used the fringe-shift method to measure indirectly light travel time;
while Dr. Daniel Gezari uses clocks to measure directly light travel time in both directions.

Shooting light to the moon has to do with the behavior of light like GPS.

The arrival time of light to a receptor is influenced by the motion of
the receptor relative to the earth: this is the basic discovery of G. Sagnac.

This fact has to be incorporated into the lunar laser ranging calculations.

Here is a basic reference which confirms this fact:

Ring-laser tests of fundamental physics and geophysics, G.E. Steadman, 1997, pg 15



One needs both the orbital and rotational Sagnac to calculate the correct timing, there is no way around that.


Dr. Daniel Gezari emitted a pulse of photons from a point on earth, bounced those photons off a reflector on the moon, and then recorded the photons’ arrival time at that same point on earth.


Please note the theoretical orbital sagnac shows up in these calculations, but is not picked up/registered/recorded by GPS satellites.

Motion of the Earth-Moon system in orbit around the Sun would average out in a two-way measurement, and only appear as a small (∼3 m/s) second-order residual.

Because of the two-way averaging, the orbital Sagnac effect registered is smaller than usual, however it is not 1/365 of the rotational Sagnac effect, in fact even in the diluted form permitted by the two-way averaging calculation, it represents a significant percentage of the rotational Sagnac effect.


THE SMALL (~3M/S) SECOND ORDER RESIDUAL IS THE ORBITAL SAGNAC.


For instance, the Earth’s full 30 km/s orbital velocity along the line-of-sight would produce a second-order residual velocity of only ~3 m/s, so we cannot preclude the possibility that some part of the 8.4 m /s difference between co and c measured here is a real second-order residual due to motion of the Earth-Moon system relative to an absolute frame.

THE 8.4 M/S DIFFERENCE IS THE ROTATIONAL SAGNAC.


Dr. Daniel Gezari:


For instance, the Earth’s full 30 km/s orbital velocity along the line-of-sight would produce a second-order residual velocity of only ~3 m/s, so we cannot preclude the possibility that some part of the 8.4 m /s difference


3/8.4 = 0.357

1/365 = 0.00274

0.357/0.00274 = 130.3

Now, because of the vast distance, if the RE were correct, we should see 1/365 of the rotational sagnac in the measurements and that will show up on this vast distance.

So, if they are correct, then we should see the 1/365 conclusions in the measurements. Guess what. We do not.

Dr. Daniel Gezari's calculations prove otherwise: even in the diluted two way averaging form, the orbital Sagnac amounts for a 3/8.4 = 0.357 (35.7%) percentage of the rotational Sagnac.


It is also of interest to note that the missing orbital Sagnac effect proves that the lunar missions never occurred in reality, that the lunar laser ranging is actually a small mirror (in the form of a minuscule satellite) orbiting above the flat surface of the Earth right in front of the Moon, using the Biefeld-Brown effect to stay in orbit.


More information on Dr. C.C. Su's paper on the orbital Sagnac effect.

His paper was also published by HARVARD UNIVERSITY:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?2001EPJC...21..701S

See the headline at the top:

NASA ADS Physics/Geophysics Abstract Service



So far, Dr. C.C. Su's papers, which include the correct orbital Sagnac calculations, based on a circular loop with the center of rotation located at the Sun, have been published by:

HARVARD UNIVERSITY

BULLETIN OF THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY

EUROPEAN PHYSICAL JOURNAL

EUROPHYSICS LETTERS JOURNAL

JOURNAL OF ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES AND APPLICATIONS

Further information here:

http://www.ee.nthu.edu.tw/ccsu/



Journal of Electromagnetic Waves and Applications:

http://www.ee.nthu.edu.tw/ccsu/qem/f3c.pdf

For the interplanetary propagation, earth’s orbital
motion contributes to the Sagnac effect as well. This local-ether model
has been adopted to account for the Sagnac effect due to earth’s
motions in a wide variety of propagation phenomena, particularly the
global positioning system (GPS), the intercontinental microwave link,
and the interplanetary radar.


The peer reviewers at the Journal of Electromagnetic Waves and Applications agree that the orbital Sagnac is larger than the rotational Sagnac, that it is missing, and that a local-ether model has to be adopted in order to account for this fact.



Faced with the missing orbital Sagnac effect, relativists have begun to renounce both STR/GTR and to rely on the local aether model (MLET, Modified Lorentz Ether Theory).


The solar gravitational potential effect upon the GPS clocks is also missing:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846706#msg1846706


This means that the hypotheses of the RUDERFER EXPERIMENT are totally fulfilled:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721


Real scientists, whose papers are published in the most prestigious journals in the world, know very well that the orbital Sagnac is much larger than the rotational Sagnac, and that it is missing.

You are still here?
You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

Yes, I certainly acknowledge that you are Sefl-made man, who worships his creator!

Real scientists, whose papers are published in the most prestigious journals in the world, know very well that the orbital Sagnac is much larger than the rotational Sagnac, and that it is missing.

Please show us these "Real scientists, whose papers are published in the most prestigious journals" and exactly what they say.

OK, You say this massive "orbital Sagnac is much larger than the rotational Sagnac, and that it is missing" yet the earth certainly rotates on it's axis once per sidereal day and orbits the sun once per year and GNSS all work fine.

Something's wrong and it looks like YOU, because show me these
Bue bye - but I'll still be around.

But as I have often said your are too scared to show your stupid ideas to these real scientists!

Quote from: sandokhan on July 05, 2017, 10:17:58 PM

You are still here?
You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

He's right Rab! Watch the following video and you'll undersatnd!

You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

<clrl> C   <ctrl>  V     

Quote from: rabinoz on July 05, 2017, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: sandokhan on July 05, 2017, 10:17:58 PM

You are still here?
You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

He's right Rab! Watch the following video and you'll undersatnd!

Lol.

Is that all you strange Heliocentric's have got.

Insulting videos with racial undertones.

You do yourself and your religion no favours.

You just highlight  exactly what type of people you Heliocentric's are.

You just reinforce the true shape of the Earth.

Your Heliocentric Religion is false .

Quote from: Boots on July 05, 2017, 11:08:26 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 05, 2017, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: sandokhan on July 05, 2017, 10:17:58 PM

You are still here?
You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

He's right Rab! Watch the following video and you'll undersatnd!

Lol.

Is that all you strange Heliocentric's have got.

Insulting videos with racial undertones.

You do yourself and your religion no favours.

You just highlight  exactly what type of people you Heliocentric's are.

You just reinforce the true shape of the Earth.

Your Heliocentric Religion is false .

Yep. I'm just a pathetic heliocentric loser.

But you have to admit, it was kinda funny!

Guys that video!!! OMG!! When the full movie comes??

Watch the following video and you'll undersatnd!

It is funny.





<clrl> C   <ctrl>  V     

It is called bibliography; your beliefs, values, facts about the world are based on similar bibliographical RE references, the ones you were forced to learn by heart, and never bothered to verify if they are actually true.


Please show us these "Real scientists, whose papers are published in the most prestigious journals" and exactly what they say.

Published by the BULLETIN OF THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY, one of the most prestigious journals in the world today.

C.C. Su, "A Local-ether model of propagation of electromagnetic wave," in Bull. Am. Phys. Soc., vol. 45, no. 1, p. 637, Mar. 2000 (Minneapolis, Minnesota).

http://www.ee.nthu.edu.tw/ccsu/










Both the rotational and the orbital motions of the earth together with the orbital
motion of the target planet contribute to the Sagnac
effect. But the orbital motion of the sun has no effects
on the interplanetary propagation. On the other hand, as
the unique propagation frame in GPS and intercontinental
links is a geocentric inertial frame, the rotational motion
of the earth contributes to the Sagnac effect. But the orbital
motion of the earth around the sun and that of the
sun have no effects on the earthbound propagation. By
comparing GPS with interplanetary radar, it is seen that
there is a common Sagnac effect due to earth’s rotation
and a common null effect of the orbital motion of the sun
on wave propagation. However, there is a discrepancy in
the Sagnac effect due to earth’s orbital motion. Moreover,
by comparing GPS with the widely accepted interpretation
of the Michelson–Morley experiment, it is seen that
there is a common null effect of the orbital motions on
wave propagation, whereas there is a discrepancy in the
Sagnac effect due to earth’s rotation.


Based on this characteristic of uniqueness and switchability of the propagation frame,
we propose in the following section the local-ether model
of wave propagation to solve the discrepancies in the in-
fluences of earth’s rotational and orbital motions on the
Sagnac effect and to account for a wide variety of propagation
phenomena.


Anyway, the interplanetary Sagnac effect is due to
earth’s orbital motion around the sun as well as earth’s
rotation. Further, for the interstellar propagation where
the source is located beyond the solar system, the orbital
motion of the sun contributes to the interstellar Sagnac
effect as well.

Evidently, as expected, the proposed local-ether model
accounts for the Sagnac effect due to earth’s rotation and
the null effect of earth’s orbital motion in the earthbound
propagations in GPS and intercontinental microwave link
experiments. Meanwhile, in the interplanetary radar, it accounts
for the Sagnac effect due both to earth’s rotation
and to earth’s orbital motion around the sun.


Based on the local-ether model, the propagation is entirely
independent of the earth’s orbital motion around
the sun or whatever and the velocity v for such an earthbound
experiment is referred to an ECI frame and hence
is due to earth’s rotation alone. In the original proposal,
the velocity v was supposed to incorporate earth’s orbital
motion around the sun. Thus, at least, v²/c²
=~ 10^-8. Then the amplitude of the phase-difference variation
could be as large as π/3, when the wavelength is
0.6 µm and the path length is 10 m. However, as the velocity
v is the linear velocity due to earth’s rotation alone,
the round-trip Sagnac effect is as small as v²/c²∼ 10^-12 which is merely 10^-4 times that due to the orbital motion.


The Sagnac effect is a FIRST ORDER effect in v/c.

Even in the round-trip nature of the Sagnac effect, as it was applied in the Michelson-Morley experiment, thus becoming a second order effect within that context, we can see that the ORBITAL SAGNAC IS 10,000 TIMES GREATER than the rotational Sagnac effect.

More information on Dr. C.C. Su's paper on the orbital Sagnac effect.

His paper was also published by HARVARD UNIVERSITY:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?2001EPJC...21..701S

See the headline at the top:

NASA ADS Physics/Geophysics Abstract Service



So far, Dr. C.C. Su's papers, which include the correct orbital Sagnac calculations, based on a circular loop with the center of rotation located at the Sun, have been published by:

HARVARD UNIVERSITY

BULLETIN OF THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY

EUROPEAN PHYSICAL JOURNAL

EUROPHYSICS LETTERS JOURNAL

JOURNAL OF ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES AND APPLICATIONS

Further information here:

http://www.ee.nthu.edu.tw/ccsu/



Journal of Electromagnetic Waves and Applications:

http://www.ee.nthu.edu.tw/ccsu/qem/f3c.pdf

For the interplanetary propagation, earth’s orbital
motion contributes to the Sagnac effect as well. This local-ether model
has been adopted to account for the Sagnac effect due to earth’s
motions in a wide variety of propagation phenomena, particularly the
global positioning system (GPS), the intercontinental microwave link,
and the interplanetary radar.


The peer reviewers at the Journal of Electromagnetic Waves and Applications agree that the orbital Sagnac is larger than the rotational Sagnac, that it is missing, and that a local-ether model has to be adopted in order to account for this fact.


Dr. Daniel Gezari

Post Doctoral Research Fellow - California Institute of Technology (1974 - 1976)
Resident Research Associate - National Research Council (1976 - 1978)
Astrophysicist - NASA/Goddard (1976 - 2008)
Astrophysicist (Emeritus) - NASA/Goddard (2008 - present)
Research Associate - American Museum of Natural History, Astrophysics Dept. (2008 - present)

Education

A.B. (Physics), Cornell University, 1966
M.S. (Physics), New York University, 1969
Ph.D. (Astronomy), S.U.N.Y. at Stony Brook, 1973
Robert A. Millikan Research Fellow in Astriohysics, California Institute of Technology, 1974-1976

Dr. Daniel Gezari emitted a pulse of photons from a point on earth, bounced those photons off a reflector on the moon, and then recorded the photons’ arrival time at that same point on earth.


Please note the theoretical orbital sagnac shows up in these calculations, but is not picked up/registered/recorded by GPS satellites.

For instance, the Earth’s full 30 km/s orbital velocity along the line-of-sight would produce a second-order residual velocity of only ~3 m/s, so we cannot preclude the possibility that some part of the 8.4 m /s difference between co and c measured here is a real second-order residual due to motion of the Earth-Moon system relative to an absolute frame.

THE 8.4 M/S DIFFERENCE IS THE ROTATIONAL SAGNAC.


Dr. Daniel Gezari:


For instance, the Earth’s full 30 km/s orbital velocity along the line-of-sight would produce a second-order residual velocity of only ~3 m/s, so we cannot preclude the possibility that some part of the 8.4 m /s difference


3/8.4 = 0.357

1/365 = 0.00274

0.357/0.00274 = 130.3

Now, because of the vast distance, if the RE were correct, we should see 1/365 of the rotational sagnac in the measurements and that will show up on this vast distance.

So, if they are correct, then we should see the 1/365 conclusions in the measurements. Guess what. We do not.

Dr. Daniel Gezari's calculations prove otherwise: even in the diluted two way averaging form, the orbital Sagnac amounts for a 3/8.4 = 0.357 (35.7%) percentage of the rotational Sagnac.


yet the earth certainly rotates on it's axis once per sidereal day and orbits the sun once per year and GNSS all work fine.

But it cannot rotate around its own axis, if the orbital Sagnac is missing.

It is the ether drift which rotates above the flat surface of the Earth which causes the rotational Sagnac effect.


The MISSING SOLAR GRAVITATIONAL POTENTIAL deals another huge blow to heliocentricity.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846706#msg1846706

Many people believe that GR accounts for all the observed
effects caused by gravitational fields. However, in
reality GR is unable to explain an increasing number of
clear observational facts, several of them discovered recently
with the help of the GPS. For instance, GR
predicts the gravitational time dilation and the slowing of
the rate of clocks by the gravitational potential of Earth,
of the Sun, of the galaxy etc. Due to the gravitational
time dilation of the solar gravitational potential, clocks in
the GPS satellites having their orbital plane nearly parallel
to the Earth-Sun axis should undergo a 12 hour period
harmonic variation in their rate so that the difference
between the delay accumulated along the half of the orbit
closest to the Sun amounts up to about 24 ns in the time
display, which would be recovered along the half of the
orbit farthest from the Sun. Such an oscillation exceeds
the resolution of the measurements by more than two
orders of magnitude and, if present, would be very easily
observed. Nevertheless, contradicting the predictions of
GR, no sign of such oscillation is observed.

In fact observations show that the rate of the
atomic clocks on Earth and in the 24 GPS satellites is
ruled by only and exclusively the Earth’s gravitational
field and that effects of the solar gravitational potential
are completely absent.

On the other hand, the time dilation effect of the solar
gravitational field on the atomic clocks orbiting with
Earth round the Sun, which is predicted by GR but not
observed, is a highly precise observation. It exceeds by
orders of magnitude the experimental precision and
hence is infinitely more reliable. If the orbital motion of
Earth round the Sun suppresses the time dilation due to
the solar gravitational field and moreover does not show
the predicted relativistic time dilation due to this orbital
motion, then it seems reasonable that a clock in a satellite
orbiting round the Earth in a direct equatorial orbit or in a
jet flying round the Earth too should give no evidence of
such a relativistic time dilation. The relativistic time dilation
alleged in both these round the world Sagnac experiments
is in clear and frontal contradiction with the
absence of such a relativistic time dilation effect in the
case of the orbiting Earth round the Sun.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 05, 2017, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: sandokhan on July 05, 2017, 10:17:58 PM

You are still here?
You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

He's right Rab! Watch the following video and you'll undersatnd!

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Sandokhan vs Filthy Roundies

But did you notice what this fiendish SandyCan used as a weapon to start his dervish-like final rampage?
A GLOBE, a large Glorious Globe! How dare he desecrate the Globe in that way?

It was admittedly just a street light Globe, but the SYMBOLISM is there - the fiend,

Thank you Sandokhan

For exposing the deliberate "Lies"  "misdirection" and dis-info that Old man Rab and his colleugues constantly provide.

This shows that these Heliocentric's know no bounderies when it comes to defending their Strange Religion.

As I have been saying from the first day I posted on here:

Relativity is one of the fundermental principles of the Heliocentric religion.

The Globe spinning and wobbling through space is one of the fundermental principles of the Heliocentric Religion.

Both of these theorys have "Never" been verified.

When a true scientist conducts a real scientific experiment. (One that can be repeatably verified)

These theorys are easily proven to be false.

People who believe in things that have not been verified are religious  and as such your Heliocentric Globe Model is nothing but a religious cult.

As I have highlighted before people who are telling the truth or even think they are telling the truth have no need to employ the use of misdirection and dis-info the mere use of these methods speaks volumes about the Globe Believers who employ the said methods and their Religion.

The difference between your Stange Heliocentric Religion and most of the monotheistic Religions is that your Religion has been scientifically proven to be FALSE.



#Shutdown

Quote from: Boots on July 05, 2017, 11:08:26 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 05, 2017, 10:44:12 PM

Quote from: sandokhan on July 05, 2017, 10:17:58 PM

You are still here?
You don't stand a chance with me on any kind of scientific debate.

He's right Rab! Watch the following video and you'll undersatnd!

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Sandokhan vs Filthy Roundies

Oh no, not the poor penguins! What did they ever do to this self-made man who worships none but his creator?

But did you notice what this fiendish SandyCan used as a weapon to start his dervish-like final rampage?
A GLOBE, a large Glorious Globe! How dare he desecrate the Globe in that way?

It was admittedly just a street light Globe, but the SYMBOLISM is there - the fiend,

That's a very good point! Good eye!

<clrl> C   <ctrl>  V     

It is called bibliography;

No, it's called tl;dr (too long; didn't read).

How has this thread been DEBUNKED ?

Sandokhan proved you Heliocentrics to be incorrect and also let's just say economical with the truth.

Your nonsense and empty words will not be tolerated you will learn that you have to back up what you say.

Your Strange Heliocentric Religion is False.

Your nonsense and empty words will not be tolerated you will learn that you have to back up what you say.

Or...?

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on July 11, 2017, 01:28:26 AM

Your nonsense and empty words will not be tolerated you will learn that you have to back up what you say.

Or...?

I will keep re-posting until these posts are addressed as you said debunked and anyone that comes on here can make their own mind up.

Remember once you've seen Flat there is no going back 

You have not timed this very well 

I would say you could expect a fair bit more traffic than usual.

By the way it's one of the most popular papers in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4682728/Inside-world-flat-Earthers.html

 

You have not timed this very well 

I would say you could expect a fair bit more traffic than usual.

By the way it's one of the most popular papers in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4682728/Inside-world-flat-Earthers.html

 

That is a good article, but the globe the guy is holding scares the hell out of me.

You have not timed this very well 

I would say you could expect a fair bit more traffic than usual.

By the way it's one of the most popular papers in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4682728/Inside-world-flat-Earthers.html

 

I think the Flat Earthers cling to their beliefs because it feels to them like they have special knowledge that other people are not aware of, which gives them a sense of purpose or meaning, the idea that you have discovered something that others do not have.

Like all conspiracy theories really.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on July 11, 2017, 02:50:00 AM

You have not timed this very well 

I would say you could expect a fair bit more traffic than usual.

By the way it's one of the most popular papers in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4682728/Inside-world-flat-Earthers.html

 

Quote

I think the Flat Earthers cling to their beliefs because it feels to them like they have special knowledge that other people are not aware of, which gives them a sense of purpose or meaning, the idea that you have discovered something that others do not have.

Like all conspiracy theories really.

I'm not special.

I do not feel special.

Everyone is equal.

Stop talking bollocks and Debunk the threads.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on July 11, 2017, 02:50:00 AM

You have not timed this very well 

I would say you could expect a fair bit more traffic than usual.

By the way it's one of the most popular papers in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4682728/Inside-world-flat-Earthers.html

 

Quote

I think the Flat Earthers cling to their beliefs because it feels to them like they have special knowledge that other people are not aware of, which gives them a sense of purpose or meaning, the idea that you have discovered something that others do not have.

Like all conspiracy theories really.

I read a research on the matter and yes, most of the conspiracy theories have that aspect. Flat Eartherism was studied as well like other examples and it looks like there are same motives behind it. Many aspects from that research do also align to what we see on this forum. Particularly the lack of critical analysis done by FE-ers towards their theory and that they are completely ignorant to facts that point out holes in FET. It is just doesn't matter how hard you try, they will never get it. It's something beyond rationalism and is more a psychological matter.