Question for the religious Christians

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Question for the religious Christians
« on: May 19, 2017, 10:42:54 AM »

this is a question for the religious Christians here that believe the Bible is correct word for word.

who was the first man on earth according to the Bible?

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Shifter

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 07:52:07 PM »
This is testing my memory but.....

I thought the world was already populated. God created Adam & Eve, not so much on 'Earth' but in the garden of Eden.

When he banished them, they had to fend for themselves.

When Cain killed Abel, God put a 'mark' on him so that other people could recognise him

Who were these others?

Other people that already inhabited the Earth?

However, Adam lived for about 950 years. It's difficult to imagine in a era without contraception he only fathered a handful of children. Perhaps the others were hordes of his children? Cain went on to marry his sister anyway. If incest was disgusting and forbidden in Gods eyes, it seems silly to entrap his creation to resort to that to survive.

I am not overly religious but I don't think we are given a specific man in the bible that was the 'first' on Earth. Adam was created in Gods image sure, but you can take that a whole bunch of ways.

For a living, it was my job to breed a very unique and specific strain of mice that had specific genes 'knocked out'. It took 10 generations of specific inbreeding with mice that had specific genotypes. You could say the end result was a creation 'in my image' (or more specifically my bosses) but we sure don't look like a mouse. God may have just crafted what he thought was the perfect human.





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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 04:49:48 AM »
This is testing my memory but.....

I thought the world was already populated. God created Adam & Eve, not so much on 'Earth' but in the garden of Eden.

When he banished them, they had to fend for themselves.

When Cain killed Abel, God put a 'mark' on him so that other people could recognise him

Who were these others?

Other people that already inhabited the Earth?

However, Adam lived for about 950 years. It's difficult to imagine in a era without contraception he only fathered a handful of children. Perhaps the others were hordes of his children? Cain went on to marry his sister anyway. If incest was disgusting and forbidden in Gods eyes, it seems silly to entrap his creation to resort to that to survive.

I am not overly religious but I don't think we are given a specific man in the bible that was the 'first' on Earth. Adam was created in Gods image sure, but you can take that a whole bunch of ways.

For a living, it was my job to breed a very unique and specific strain of mice that had specific genes 'knocked out'. It took 10 generations of specific inbreeding with mice that had specific genotypes. You could say the end result was a creation 'in my image' (or more specifically my bosses) but we sure don't look like a mouse. God may have just crafted what he thought was the perfect human.

as i thought, the most people say that Adam was the first man on earth.

but it looks like that i as an atheist have more read the bible than the believers.

look up:

Genesis 1 :

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

there it clearly says that God created man on the six day, and not one he made male and female and looks like a lot.
Adam was made later in Genesis 2:7 after Day 7, could be on Day 8.

also than Cain did not need to marry his sister, there were lot of female made before.

my question is now: why does this argument does not come up from believers if you ask them who was the first man on earth and who did Cain marry.
do the believers not read their holy book?


Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 08:36:39 AM »
One thing scientists don't look into; which is the soul - because they cannot observe, measure or detect!

When God mentioned he created Man in his image, He meant he created ALL the souls first before the physical bodies.
Then He created Adam from dust/ clay, then Eve came from him.

That is why we find in the Book of Genesis, in chapters one through five, two creation narratives with two distinct perspectives.

God also mentioned in the Qur'an, "if they ask you about the soul, say it's from God's knowledge".
As the soul is the light of our bodies, God is the light of the heavens and the earth.

God—the knower—is non-dimensional.
God's thinking is two-dimensional.
God's creative actions are three-dimensional.

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 09:34:57 AM »
One thing scientists don't look into; which is the soul - because they cannot observe, measure or detect!

When God mentioned he created Man in his image, He meant he created ALL the souls first before the physical bodies.
Then He created Adam from dust/ clay, then Eve came from him.

That is why we find in the Book of Genesis, in chapters one through five, two creation narratives with two distinct perspectives.

God also mentioned in the Qur'an, "if they ask you about the soul, say it's from God's knowledge".
As the soul is the light of our bodies, God is the light of the heavens and the earth.

he created all souls?
than there are lot of souls waiting to get a body.

also the bible says:
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

if all the humans exist only as souls, why do they need the fruits as meat?
and with that many souls made, there would not be enough fruits for all souls.

and as you mention the Qur'an: did god also write this book? what is than with all the other religions did god also "wrote" these creation stories?




Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2017, 12:56:47 PM »
One thing scientists don't look into; which is the soul - because they cannot observe, measure or detect!

When God mentioned he created Man in his image, He meant he created ALL the souls first before the physical bodies.
Then He created Adam from dust/ clay, then Eve came from him.

That is why we find in the Book of Genesis, in chapters one through five, two creation narratives with two distinct perspectives.

God also mentioned in the Qur'an, "if they ask you about the soul, say it's from God's knowledge".
As the soul is the light of our bodies, God is the light of the heavens and the earth.

he created all souls?
than there are lot of souls waiting to get a body.

also the bible says:
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

if all the humans exist only as souls, why do they need the fruits as meat?
and with that many souls made, there would not be enough fruits for all souls.

and as you mention the Qur'an: did god also write this book? what is than with all the other religions did god also "wrote" these creation stories?

"Indeed, We have created you, and then formed you; and then We said unto the angels, Prostrate yourselves before Adam" Qur'an 7:11

Creation in God's image was for the soul, then the formation of the body - and we are talking here about mankind > Adam, because we all are Adam!

The meaning was lost in the translated Bible, but the Qur'an was very precise about this issue, also the sayings of the Prophet that confirm creation of the soul happened one day before the formation of the body, and which was a period of 50,000 earthly years!

"The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years." Qur'an 70:4

The original Bible has precious information which was lost in translation > I'm not sure if it was done on purpose!
God—the knower—is non-dimensional.
God's thinking is two-dimensional.
God's creative actions are three-dimensional.

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 01:18:25 PM »
One thing scientists don't look into; which is the soul - because they cannot observe, measure or detect!

When God mentioned he created Man in his image, He meant he created ALL the souls first before the physical bodies.
Then He created Adam from dust/ clay, then Eve came from him.

That is why we find in the Book of Genesis, in chapters one through five, two creation narratives with two distinct perspectives.

God also mentioned in the Qur'an, "if they ask you about the soul, say it's from God's knowledge".
As the soul is the light of our bodies, God is the light of the heavens and the earth.

he created all souls?
than there are lot of souls waiting to get a body.

also the bible says:
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

if all the humans exist only as souls, why do they need the fruits as meat?
and with that many souls made, there would not be enough fruits for all souls.

and as you mention the Qur'an: did god also write this book? what is than with all the other religions did god also "wrote" these creation stories?

"Indeed, We have created you, and then formed you; and then We said unto the angels, Prostrate yourselves before Adam" Qur'an 7:11

Creation in God's image was for the soul, then the formation of the body - and we are talking here about mankind > Adam, because we all are Adam!

The meaning was lost in the translated Bible, but the Qur'an was very precise about this issue, also the sayings of the Prophet that confirm creation of the soul happened one day before the formation of the body, and which was a period of 50,000 earthly years!

"The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years." Qur'an 70:4

The original Bible has precious information which was lost in translation > I'm not sure if it was done on purpose!

if the true meaning of the Bible is lost, why than live by the Bible or any other holy book.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 02:02:12 PM »
You can point out the inconsistencies of the Bible all you want, it doesn't matter to people who believe. Most think that anything that doesn't make sense to them will be made clear after Jesus comes, or that it doesn't matter, or that it is something that only God knows and is not important for them to know.

Not everyone who is Christian thinks the Bible is all 100% literally true. They realize there are stories that are meant to have a message of some sort. Not all of those stories make sense in our modern context.

When I was a kid, I was very devout. I never remember my church teaching us that the Bible was literal. I don't really know when that became a thing.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 02:45:01 PM »

as i thought, the most people say that Adam was the first man on earth.



Based on what?

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 04:26:31 PM »
@ CB,  the Bible and other Abrahamic books are messages from God to humanity. Each of these messages came in the language of the time. The languages spoken at the time of Jesus were Aramic and Hebrew. Latin was the language Rome spoke at the time.

Translating the Bible into Latin and later into English might've changed, diverted and altered "some" of its meaning in certain verses and not the message as a whole.

I usually go back to the Torah and the Qur'an to clarify certain issues and to confirm what I was looking for.
God—the knower—is non-dimensional.
God's thinking is two-dimensional.
God's creative actions are three-dimensional.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 05:13:22 PM »
You can point out the inconsistencies of the Bible all you want, it doesn't matter to people who believe. Most think that anything that doesn't make sense to them will be made clear after Jesus comes, or that it doesn't matter, or that it is something that only God knows and is not important for them to know.

Not everyone who is Christian thinks the Bible is all 100% literally true. They realize there are stories that are meant to have a message of some sort. Not all of those stories make sense in our modern context.

When I was a kid, I was very devout. I never remember my church teaching us that the Bible was literal. I don't really know when that became a thing.

Damn it cowgirl...Don't say dumb things, you are better than that.

I and people like me have met face to face with supposed contradictions and provided actual straight forward answers. No mental gymnastics required. Many churches won't do this because it will expose their own organization's contradictions...But don't use it as a blanket statement.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 05:15:33 PM »
As for the original post.... The beginning times of the Bible was very ambiguous, which is also why I am not a young earth creationist.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 05:29:07 PM »
I have no idea what you are fussing about.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 05:50:08 PM »
I have no idea what you are fussing about.

I am saying don't make generalizations that are not true...

Also...Did you call me fussy  :'(
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 06:21:15 PM »
What generalization did I make that wasn't true? I said not all Christians believe the Bible is literally 100% true. I also gave some examples of why inconsistencies in the Bible don't matter.

(yes, fussy pants)

I think it is a terrible waste of faith to worry about proving everything in the Bible. It may be fun mental exercise, but there's no reason to hang your faith on whether or not there are mistakes.

The church I was Baptized in was very small, out in the middle of nowhere (shit, the pastor was a farmer). There was no organization to contradict. The literalness of the Bible never was an issue that was even brought up, because it just doesn't matter. The pastor preached hellfire and brimstone, and Jesus saving us all from eternal damnation.  He spent many hours visiting the sick at home or in the hospital, right up till he died last year. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 09:10:45 AM »
What generalization did I make that wasn't true? I said not all Christians believe the Bible is literally 100% true. I also gave some examples of why inconsistencies in the Bible don't matter.

(yes, fussy pants)

I think it is a terrible waste of faith to worry about proving everything in the Bible. It may be fun mental exercise, but there's no reason to hang your faith on whether or not there are mistakes.

The church I was Baptized in was very small, out in the middle of nowhere (shit, the pastor was a farmer). There was no organization to contradict. The literalness of the Bible never was an issue that was even brought up, because it just doesn't matter. The pastor preached hellfire and brimstone, and Jesus saving us all from eternal damnation.  He spent many hours visiting the sick at home or in the hospital, right up till he died last year.

its funny to see how believers discussing about what is true what they believe.
That shows me that there can not be one truth in a religious believe.
Its always how you look at the information that is given by the religion.

science is there very different. if science does experiments and repeats them and always get the same results, we know what is true.
if we read a holy book than each person reads something different.
it goes from: this is written by god and it is true word by word and even the translations have to be taken word by word.
to: the text is only a guideline and you have to see it like a poem.

i see the Bible as a story book, written by people that try to explain who they think the world came into existens. and also give the people some guideline how they should live.

if people would now write a "Bible" they know a lot more and can explain a lot of stuff that happens in nature with science.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 10:07:56 AM »
I think you have it in reverse in regards to the Bible. This inerrant stuff didn't happen until later. Nobody thought Jesus rode around on dinosaurs until recently.

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2017, 10:52:53 AM »
I'm pretty sure there was some verse in the Bible that sort of said it was inerrant.
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It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2017, 10:53:29 AM »
What generalization did I make that wasn't true? I said not all Christians believe the Bible is literally 100% true. I also gave some examples of why inconsistencies in the Bible don't matter.

(yes, fussy pants)

I think it is a terrible waste of faith to worry about proving everything in the Bible. It may be fun mental exercise, but there's no reason to hang your faith on whether or not there are mistakes.

The church I was Baptized in was very small, out in the middle of nowhere (shit, the pastor was a farmer). There was no organization to contradict. The literalness of the Bible never was an issue that was even brought up, because it just doesn't matter. The pastor preached hellfire and brimstone, and Jesus saving us all from eternal damnation.  He spent many hours visiting the sick at home or in the hospital, right up till he died last year.

its funny to see how believers discussing about what is true what they believe.
That shows me that there can not be one truth in a religious believe.
Its always how you look at the information that is given by the religion.

science is there very different. if science does experiments and repeats them and always get the same results, we know what is true.
if we read a holy book than each person reads something different.
it goes from: this is written by god and it is true word by word and even the translations have to be taken word by word.
to: the text is only a guideline and you have to see it like a poem.

i see the Bible as a story book, written by people that try to explain who they think the world came into existens. and also give the people some guideline how they should live.

if people would now write a "Bible" they know a lot more and can explain a lot of stuff that happens in nature with science.

You believe in science, don't you?
When was the last time you questioned Einstein's theories, or tried to prove/ disprove them? - You blindly "believe" in those theories and need not to prove them, because they have been proven and confirmed by the "scientific community".

The "religious community" need not to prove the divine source of the holy books, because they have been proven and confirmed throughout the ages and taken by belief, regardless of the many inconsistencies in them due to being mistranslated from their original languages.

So, it's funny to see believers in modern science use double standards in evaluating the concept "to believe" - I wonder if they use the same standards in evaluating and observing everything else!  ::)
God—the knower—is non-dimensional.
God's thinking is two-dimensional.
God's creative actions are three-dimensional.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2017, 11:27:55 AM »
I'm pretty sure there was some verse in the Bible that sort of said it was inerrant.

I know there are verses about scripture being breathed out by God or something like that. People who believe have always thought the Bible was true, but this focus on the details being 100% accurate wasn't much of a concern for religious people. I tend to blame the commercialization of it all, there are people making money off the gullible. It's easier to get their money if they feel defensive.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2017, 11:46:27 AM »
I'm pretty sure there was some verse in the Bible that sort of said it was inerrant.

I know there are verses about scripture being breathed out by God or something like that. People who believe have always thought the Bible was true, but this focus on the details being 100% accurate wasn't much of a concern for religious people. I tend to blame the commercialization of it all, there are people making money off the gullible. It's easier to get their money if they feel defensive.

That's true. I've said it again, at least 95% of the people I know believe, but almost none acts that way.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2017, 12:39:14 PM »
What generalization did I make that wasn't true? I said not all Christians believe the Bible is literally 100% true. I also gave some examples of why inconsistencies in the Bible don't matter.

(yes, fussy pants)

I think it is a terrible waste of faith to worry about proving everything in the Bible. It may be fun mental exercise, but there's no reason to hang your faith on whether or not there are mistakes.

The church I was Baptized in was very small, out in the middle of nowhere (shit, the pastor was a farmer). There was no organization to contradict. The literalness of the Bible never was an issue that was even brought up, because it just doesn't matter. The pastor preached hellfire and brimstone, and Jesus saving us all from eternal damnation.  He spent many hours visiting the sick at home or in the hospital, right up till he died last year.

its funny to see how believers discussing about what is true what they believe.
That shows me that there can not be one truth in a religious believe.
Its always how you look at the information that is given by the religion.

science is there very different. if science does experiments and repeats them and always get the same results, we know what is true.
if we read a holy book than each person reads something different.
it goes from: this is written by god and it is true word by word and even the translations have to be taken word by word.
to: the text is only a guideline and you have to see it like a poem.

i see the Bible as a story book, written by people that try to explain who they think the world came into existens. and also give the people some guideline how they should live.

if people would now write a "Bible" they know a lot more and can explain a lot of stuff that happens in nature with science.

You believe in science, don't you?
When was the last time you questioned Einstein's theories, or tried to prove/ disprove them? - You blindly "believe" in those theories and need not to prove them, because they have been proven and confirmed by the "scientific community".

The "religious community" need not to prove the divine source of the holy books, because they have been proven and confirmed throughout the ages and taken by belief, regardless of the many inconsistencies in them due to being mistranslated from their original languages.

So, it's funny to see believers in modern science use double standards in evaluating the concept "to believe" - I wonder if they use the same standards in evaluating and observing everything else!  ::)

the stories in the bible got never been proven, everything is based on believe.

i did not directly question Einsteins theory, but i saw a lot of research the is done on the base of the theory and the outcomes make sense to me.

every "research" that has been done on stories from the bible make no sense, especially if you take the Bible word by word.
look at the story of Noah or Moses or even Jesus. There is not one testable evidence for these stories.
is there a evidence for a world wide flood?
is there a evidence of the possibility to divide a lake and walk thru it?
is there is a evidence that blind people got their vision back only by touching that person?

if a person likes to believe in that kind of magic is fine, but they shall not sell this believe as truth and say that scientist are lying and that the evidence for a global earth is fake.


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Shifter

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2017, 01:59:16 PM »
There has been evidence of a flood event during the time Noah would have been around, but worldwide? No. But the 'world' as the people of that area would have perceived it? Yes. Their old world was gone and destroyed by flood.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533



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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2017, 02:59:41 PM »
I think there were lots of massive floods in that time, but yeah, not over the whole world at the same time.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2017, 04:20:45 AM »
I think there were lots of massive floods in that time, but yeah, not over the whole world at the same time.

than you say that this information in the Bible is wrong, what about the other parts of that story?

a person named noah  knew about the coming flood and build a boot?
the size of the boot?
the animals on the boot?
that they were appr. 1 year on the water?

maybe that is also not correct.

and i than can argue, like believers about science, that the writer of the book are lying and the whole book is wrong.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2017, 04:33:52 AM »
I think there were lots of massive floods in that time, but yeah, not over the whole world at the same time.

than you say that this information in the Bible is wrong, what about the other parts of that story?

a person named noah  knew about the coming flood and build a boot?
the size of the boot?
the animals on the boot?
that they were appr. 1 year on the water?

maybe that is also not correct.

and i than can argue, like believers about science, that the writer of the book are lying and the whole book is wrong.

Like a Chinese Food menu. Pick one from column A, two from column B.
All according to your personal tastes.

A really good Chinese restaurant will even have 'off menu' items.

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2017, 05:41:38 AM »
I think funnier than the people taking the bible literally, are those thinking they need to "disprove" the bible  ;D ::)
fuck you boydster

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2017, 06:35:03 AM »
I think funnier than the people taking the bible literally, are those thinking they need to "disprove" the bible  ;D ::)

i do not need to disprove the Bible, it is only a book of stories like Grimms Fairy Tails.

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2017, 07:08:54 AM »
Yeah right, and that's why you made this thread.
fuck you boydster

Re: Question for the religious Christians
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2017, 07:13:24 AM »
Yeah right, and that's why you made this thread.

i wanted to show that even the believers in the Bible do not know what is written in the Bible.

i experienced that atheists know more about whats written in the Bible than the self proclaimed Believers.