IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?

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cikljamas

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IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« on: May 10, 2017, 05:07:19 AM »
If the earth is at rest, can she still be round? If yes then why, if no then why?

The earth is motionless, there isn't the slightest doubt about that, now since we know for the fact that the earth is at rest, round-earth hypothesis isn't sustainable any more for many reasons.

No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.

The toil of thousands of exasperated researchers, in the extremely varied experiments of Arago, De Coudre's induction, Fizeau, Fresnell drag, Hoek, Jaseja's lasers, Jenkins, Klinkerfuess, Michelson-Morley interferometry, Lord Rayleigh's polarimetry, Troughton-Noble torque, and the famous 'Airy's Failure' experiment, all conclusively failed to show any rotational or translational movement for the earth, whatsoever."

In a short paper it is impossible to enumerate those fruitless efforts of three centuries, all trying to establish incontrovertibly the veracity of Galileo's legendary "Eppur Si muove!". Those interested in particulars will find them sprinkled throughout the extensive literature dealing with the issues involved.

These are quotes about one other experiment (Michelson-Morley experiment) that was performed 10 years after famous Airy's failure experiment (with the same results):

But the fact is, they all knew a non-moving Earth was the simplest solution. Take for example the words of physicist G. J. Whitrow in the 1950s:

“It is both amusing and instructive to speculate on what might have happened if such an experiment could have been performed in the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries when men were debating the rival merits of the Copernican and Ptolemaic systems. The result would surely have been interpreted as conclusive evidence for the immobility of the Earth, and therefore as a triumphant vindication of the Ptolemaic system and irrefutable falsification of the Copernican hypothesis. The moral of this historical fantasy is that it is often dangerous to believe in the absolute verification or falsification of a scientific hypothesis. All judgments of this type are necessarily made in some historical context which may be drastically modified by the changing perspective of human knowledge” (G. J. Whitrow, The Structure and Evolution of the Universe, 1949, 1959, p. 79).

Other scientists also saw a motionless Earth as a possible solution to MMX, but were unwilling to accept it due to their philosophical presuppositions. Of his own MMX experiment, Albert Michelson said: “This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation…which presupposes that the Earth moves.” (“The Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether,” American Journal of Science, Vol. 22, August 1881, p. 125).

Arthur Eddington said the same about MMX: “There was just one alternative; the earth’s true velocity through space might happen to have been nil.” (The Nature of the Physical World, 1929, pp. 11, 8.).

Historian Bernard Jaffe said: “The data were almost unbelievable… There was only one other possible conclusion to draw — that the Earth was at rest.” Jaffe’s philosophical barrier was then revealed when he concluded: “This, of course, was preposterous.” (Michelson and the Speed of Light, 1960, p. 76.).

As "preposterous" as the measurements of Arago, Trouton and Noble, Airy, Thorndyke and Kennedy, Theodore de Coudres and several others. They also found the earth to have a zero velocity through space.

“If Michelson-Morley is wrong (IF AETHER EXISTS), then Relativity is wrong.” (Einstein: The Life and Times, p. 107.).

ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT admitted 160 years ago :

“I have known too, for a long time that we have no argument for the Copernican system, but I shall never dare to be the first to attack it. Don't rush into the wasps' nest. You will bring upon yourself the scorn of the thoughtless multitude… to come forth as the first against opinions, which the world has become fond of - I don't feel the courage.”

LINCOLN BARNETT agrees:
“No physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion.”

And one of the chief participants in the experiment that bears his name (ALBERT A. MICHELSON), stunned by the results that went counter to his own heliocentric reflex:

“This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation… which presupposes that the Earth moves.”

-- If the earth is the center of the universe then the most plausible philosophical assumption is that the earth is the largest object in the universe. But it is not just philosophical assumption, we can also prove this assumption with a simple experiment like this : This simple experiment not only proves that the earth is at rest, it also proves that the sun is very close.

-- Now that we know that the sun is very close to the earth, we can pretty accurate estimate sun's dimensions. So, if the sun is so small (few dozens km in diameter) how can you illuminate SO BIG - ROUND earth in adequate proportions with such a small sun? Geometrically impossible. Even if you bring the sun "ONLY" 100 times closer to the earth (than the official theory claims to be the true distance to the sun), you instantly lose PARALLEL SUN RAYS heliocentric "holy grail" hypothesis. Once, you lost this PARALLEL SUN RAYS EXCUSE, round earth geometry falls to pieces.

-- If the earth is stationary first DIRECT consequence of this truth is an annihilation of the TILT OF THE EARTH hypothesis. As soon as you lost this another heliocentric "holly grail", round earth geometry falls to pieces once again because there is no way how you can account for sun's DAILY UP & DOWN MOTION (as we know it) using such GEOCETRIC-ROUND earth model.

-- It seems that the sun travels in a straight line (at least we see it's trajectory as a straight line). That fact is one ancient argument in favor of the flatness of the earth. I never saw valid refutation of this argument, so although this argument is ancient it is still sound argument in favor of the flat earth hypothesis.

-- If the proportions of the universe remained in the form (size) which is recognized by today's science what would be A DAILY orbital speed of a distant galaxy? Here is the answer :

I have heard EVERY argument that a ball earth proponent can come up with and it still doesn't tell me why out of the hundreds of thousands of satellites, we see none. why nasa, in at least TWO separate NASA MADE videos state that they can go NO HIGHER THAN LOWER EARTH ORBIT when they claim to be ON MOTHERFUCKING MARS!?!?!?!?!

A) If the earth is stationary round-earth geometry falls to pieces!
B) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!
Now, you have to ask yourself this : What is more likely :
C) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is ROUND (although stationary)?
D) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is FLAT and stationary?
-If the earth is round, it wouldn't matter if the earth were stationary, would it? If the earth were round (although stationary) there would be no problem (for NASA or anyone else) to present to us at least ONE SINGLE (if not thousands) AUTHENTIC picture of the earth from space!
-On the other hand, if the earth is flat, there would be a huge problem to show us ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!

THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER THE EARTH IS ROUND OR FLAT. There are some serious astronomical reasons which compel us to think that the earth is round, but here are some very serious reasons which compel us NOT to believe that the earth is round, either:

If we want to compute the orbital speed of the sun within geocentric ROUND earth model, we have to surmount this huge obstacle :

IF THE EARTH IS ROUND, THEN IT'S ROUNDNESS DICTATES THE VALUES OF THE HEIGHT ANGLES OF THE SUN, THAT IS TO SAY : SUN'S RAYS HAVE TO BE PARALLEL, AND IF THEY WERE PARALLEL, THEN THE SUN WOULD HAVE TO BE AT LEAST SEVERAL TIMES BIGGER THAN EARTH, WHICH MEANS THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE SUN CAN'T BE LESS THAN 3 000 000 MILES (AS COPERNICUS ESTIMATED)...

Now, even if the sun were only 3 000 000 miles (as Copernicus thought), then the length of sun's orbit would be 31 400 000 km and orbital speed of the sun (since within geocentric ROUND earth model the sun has to complete one full circle around the earth DAILY) would be 1 308 333 km/h. In the same way as we don't feel any motion of the earth (and only on the basis of our senses are able to discard idiotic presumptions about different kinds of earth's motion), our senses (eyes) clearly tell us that the sun is not hurling through space at such incredible speed, as well. If the sun were 3,9 times bigger than earth (supposing that the distance to the sun is only 3 000 000 miles) we should ask this question also : Why would so much bigger sun orbit so much smaller earth? That is why geocentric ROUND earth model doesn't add up!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 08:37:01 AM by cikljamas »
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Canadabear

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 05:12:33 AM »
If the earth is at rest, can she still be round? If yes then why, if no then why?

The earth is motionless, there isn't the slightest doubt about that, now since we know for the fact that the earth is at rest, round-earth hypothesis isn't sustainable any more for many reasons.

with this false assumption we can say your following text is the same bullshit

Quote

No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.

The toil of thousands of exasperated researchers, in the extremely varied experiments of Arago, De Coudre's induction, Fizeau, Fresnell drag, Hoek, Jaseja's lasers, Jenkins, Klinkerfuess, Michelson-Morley interferometry, Lord Rayleigh's polarimetry, Troughton-Noble torque, and the famous 'Airy's Failure' experiment, all conclusively failed to show any rotational or translational movement for the earth, whatsoever."

In a short paper it is impossible to enumerate those fruitless efforts of three centuries, all trying to establish incontrovertibly the veracity of Galileo's legendary "Eppur Si muove!". Those interested in particulars will find them sprinkled throughout the extensive literature dealing with the issues involved.

These are quotes about one other experiment (Michelson-Morley experiment) that was performed 10 years after famous Airy's failure experiment (with the same results):

But the fact is, they all knew a non-moving Earth was the simplest solution. Take for example the words of physicist G. J. Whitrow in the 1950s:

“It is both amusing and instructive to speculate on what might have happened if such an experiment could have been performed in the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries when men were debating the rival merits of the Copernican and Ptolemaic systems. The result would surely have been interpreted as conclusive evidence for the immobility of the Earth, and therefore as a triumphant vindication of the Ptolemaic system and irrefutable falsification of the Copernican hypothesis. The moral of this historical fantasy is that it is often dangerous to believe in the absolute verification or falsification of a scientific hypothesis. All judgments of this type are necessarily made in some historical context which may be drastically modified by the changing perspective of human knowledge” (G. J. Whitrow, The Structure and Evolution of the Universe, 1949, 1959, p. 79).

Other scientists also saw a motionless Earth as a possible solution to MMX, but were unwilling to accept it due to their philosophical presuppositions. Of his own MMX experiment, Albert Michelson said: “This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation…which presupposes that the Earth moves.” (“The Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether,” American Journal of Science, Vol. 22, August 1881, p. 125).

Arthur Eddington said the same about MMX: “There was just one alternative; the earth’s true velocity through space might happen to have been nil.” (The Nature of the Physical World, 1929, pp. 11, 8.).

Historian Bernard Jaffe said: “The data were almost unbelievable… There was only one other possible conclusion to draw — that the Earth was at rest.” Jaffe’s philosophical barrier was then revealed when he concluded: “This, of course, was preposterous.” (Michelson and the Speed of Light, 1960, p. 76.).

As "preposterous" as the measurements of Arago, Trouton and Noble, Airy, Thorndyke and Kennedy, Theodore de Coudres and several others. They also found the earth to have a zero velocity through space.

“If Michelson-Morley is wrong (if there is no aether), then Relativity is wrong.” (Einstein: The Life and Times, p. 107.).

ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT admitted 160 years ago :

“I have known too, for a long time that we have no argument for the Copernican system, but I shall never dare to be the first to attack it. Don't rush into the wasps' nest. You will bring upon yourself the scorn of the thoughtless multitude… to come forth as the first against opinions, which the world has become fond of - I don't feel the courage.”

LINCOLN BARNETT agrees:
“No physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion.”

And one of the chief participants in the experiment that bears his name (ALBERT A. MICHELSON), stunned by the results that went counter to his own heliocentric reflex:

“This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation… which presupposes that the Earth moves.”

-- If the earth is the center of the universe then the most plausible philosophical assumption is that the earth is the largest object in the universe. But it is not just philosophical assumption, we can also prove this assumption with a simple experiment like this : This simple experiment not only proves that the earth is at rest, it also proves that the sun is very close.

-- Now that we know that the sun is very close to the earth, we can pretty accurate estimate sun's dimensions. So, if the sun is so small (few dozens km in diameter) how can you illuminate SO BIG - ROUND earth in adequate proportions with such a small sun? Geometrically impossible. Even if you bring the sun "ONLY" 100 times closer to the earth (than the official theory claims to be the true distance to the sun), you instantly lose PARALLEL SUN RAYS heliocentric "holy grail" hypothesis. Once, you lost this PARALLEL SUN RAYS EXCUSE, round earth geometry falls to pieces.

-- If the earth is stationary first DIRECT consequence of this truth is an annihilation of the TILT OF THE EARTH hypothesis. As soon as you lost this another heliocentric "holly grail", round earth geometry falls to pieces once again because there is no way how you can account for sun's DAILY UP & DOWN MOTION (as we know it) using such GEOCETRIC-ROUND earth model.

-- It seems that the sun travels in a straight line (at least we see it's trajectory as a straight line). That fact is one ancient argument in favor of the flatness of the earth. I never saw valid refutation of this argument, so although this argument is ancient it is still sound argument in favor of the flat earth hypothesis.

-- If the proportions of the universe remained in the form (size) which is recognized by today's science what would be A DAILY orbital speed of a distant galaxy? Here is the answer :

I have heard EVERY argument that a ball earth proponent can come up with and it still doesn't tell me why out of the hundreds of thousands of satellites, we see none. why nasa, in at least TWO separate NASA MADE videos state that they can go NO HIGHER THAN LOWER EARTH ORBIT when they claim to be ON MOTHERFUCKING MARS!?!?!?!?!

A) If the earth is stationary round-earth geometry falls to pieces!
B) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!
Now, you have to ask yourself this : What is more likely :
C) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is ROUND (although stationary)?
D) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is FLAT and stationary?
-If the earth is round, it wouldn't matter if the earth were stationary, would it? If the earth were round (although stationary) there would be no problem (for NASA or anyone else) to present to us at least ONE SINGLE (if not thousands) AUTHENTIC picture of the earth from space!
-On the other hand, if the earth is flat, there would be a huge problem to show us ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!

THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER THE EARTH IS ROUND OR FLAT. There are some serious astronomical reasons which compel us to think that the earth is round, but here are some very serious reasons which compel us NOT to believe that the earth is round, either:

If we want to compute the orbital speed of the sun within geocentric ROUND earth model, we have to surmount this huge obstacle :

IF THE EARTH IS ROUND, THEN IT'S ROUNDNESS DICTATES THE VALUES OF THE HEIGHT ANGLES OF THE SUN, THAT IS TO SAY : SUN'S RAYS HAVE TO BE PARALLEL, AND IF THEY WERE PARALLEL, THEN THE SUN WOULD HAVE TO BE AT LEAST SEVERAL TIMES BIGGER THAN EARTH, WHICH MEANS THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE SUN CAN'T BE LESS THAN 3 000 000 MILES (AS COPERNICUS ESTIMATED)...

Now, even if the sun were only 3 000 000 miles (as Copernicus thought), then the length of sun's orbit would be 31 400 000 km and orbital speed of the sun (since within geocentric ROUND earth model the sun has to complete one full circle around the earth DAILY) would be 1 308 333 km/h. In the same way as we don't feel any motion of the earth (and only on the basis of our senses are able to discard idiotic presumptions about different kinds of earth's motion), our senses (eyes) clearly tell us that the sun is not hurling through space at such incredible speed, as well. If the sun were 3,9 times bigger than earth (supposing that the distance to the sun is only 3 000 000 miles) we should ask this question also : Why would so much bigger sun orbit so much smaller earth? That is why geocentric ROUND earth model doesn't add up!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 07:24:48 AM by Canadabear »

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sandokhan

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 07:14:21 AM »
The Earth cannot be spherical and stationary at the same time.

The RE will have to explain how four trillion billion gallons of water stay glued next to the outer surface of a sphere, without using attractive gravity.

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Canadabear

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 07:26:10 AM »
The Earth cannot be spherical and stationary at the same time.

The RE will have to explain how four trillion billion gallons of water stay glued next to the outer surface of a sphere, without using attractive gravity.

and science did explain it.

now FEIB have to show that a flat earth is possible.

i did not see one single evidence for the claim that the earth is flat

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armyhorn8

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 07:41:13 AM »
Yes, the Earth would still be round even if we were motionless. This is because it's spherical-ness depends on gravity, not motion.

That does bring up the interesting point, though, that if the Earth were motionless, it would be an even sphere. The Earth is in fact an oblate spheroid (thicker at the equator), which indicates that the Earth indeed spins.

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Canadabear

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 08:13:59 AM »
Yes, the Earth would still be round even if we were motionless. This is because it's spherical-ness depends on gravity, not motion.

That does bring up the interesting point, though, that if the Earth were motionless, it would be an even sphere. The Earth is in fact an oblate spheroid (thicker at the equator), which indicates that the Earth indeed spins.

and the moving of the stars and planets on the sky proves us that the earth is moving around the sun.

these star and planet movements can not be explained by a stationary earth model.

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deadsirius

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 08:32:38 AM »
The Earth cannot be spherical and stationary at the same time.

True.

Quote
The RE will have to explain how four trillion billion gallons of water stay glued next to the outer surface of a sphere, without using attractive gravity.

Why would we have to explain something we have never claimed, and unequivocally deny?
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armyhorn8

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 10:12:42 AM »
The Earth cannot be spherical and stationary at the same time.

True.

No, not true. The motion of the Earth has absolutley nothing to do with it being a sphere. A motionless body above a certain mass would be a shpere, just like the Earth that spins and orbits the Sun is a shere.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 12:04:29 PM »
The earth is motionless, there isn't the slightest doubt about that, now since we know for the fact that the earth is at rest, round-earth hypothesis isn't sustainable any more for many reasons.

Your premise is false so the conclusion is moot. Your lack of doubt is immaterial.

Quote
No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.

Wrong. See aberration of light.

Quote
The toil of thousands of exasperated researchers, in the extremely varied experiments of Arago, De Coudre's induction, Fizeau, Fresnell drag, Hoek, Jaseja's lasers, Jenkins, Klinkerfuess, Michelson-Morley interferometry, Lord Rayleigh's polarimetry, Troughton-Noble torque, and the famous 'Airy's Failure' experiment, all conclusively failed to show any rotational or translational movement for the earth, whatsoever."

In a short paper it is impossible to enumerate those fruitless efforts of three centuries, all trying to establish incontrovertibly the veracity of Galileo's legendary "Eppur Si muove!". Those interested in particulars will find them sprinkled throughout the extensive literature dealing with the issues involved.

Of those experiments I'm already familiar with, all of them failed because they were attempting to measure earth's relative motion through the luminiferous aether (but there is no luminiferous aether), or because they were flawed, or both. Most likely, the rest have similar problems.

Quote
These are quotes about one other experiment (Michelson-Morley experiment) that was performed 10 years after famous Airy's failure experiment (with the same results):

The Michelson-Morley experiment's null result could mean either the earth was stationary in the aether, or that the aether didn't exist at all. The latter fits other known facts better.
 
The null result from Airy's experiment is because it was incorrectly designed [pdf].

Quote
But the fact is, they all knew a non-moving Earth was the simplest solution.

Nope. If any of them "knew" that, they were, quite simply, wrong. A non-moving earth fails to explain stellar parallax and stellar aberration that varies through the year as well as earth orbiting the sun explains them.

Quote
<irrelevant quotes>
Quote
I have heard EVERY argument that a ball earth proponent can come up with and it still doesn't tell me why out of the hundreds of thousands of satellites, we see none.

Really? You've heard EVERY argument? I'm sure you've heard SOME, but apparently haven't listened to ANY.

Rather than sitting at a computer arguing and ignoring facts and data, have you considered going outside an hour or so after sunset (or before sunrise) on a clear dark night and looking up? Even better, get predictions for the brightest satellites visible from your location for a specific evening and see if they show up on schedule. If you use that link, enter your location and time zone, and the desired date.

You might check to see if there will be an iridium flare at or near your location. Those are really cool! [Note: each flare is visible only along a narrow path (a few miles wide) and lasts only a few seconds at most, so you'll need to provide accurate location information and have an accurate source of time within a few seconds.]

Quote
why nasa, in at least TWO separate NASA MADE videos state that they can go NO HIGHER THAN LOWER EARTH ORBIT when they claim to be ON [expletive deleted] MARS!?!?!?!?!

You're probably misinterpreting what was said in those videos. Who knows?

This is the sort of reason why videos are a poor way to convey technical information.

Quote
A) If the earth is stationary round-earth geometry falls to pieces!
B) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!
Now, you have to ask yourself this : What is more likely :
C) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is ROUND (although stationary)?
D) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is FLAT and stationary?
-If the earth is round, it wouldn't matter if the earth were stationary, would it? If the earth were round (although stationary) there would be no problem (for NASA or anyone else) to present to us at least ONE SINGLE (if not thousands) AUTHENTIC picture of the earth from space!
-On the other hand, if the earth is flat, there would be a huge problem to show us ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!

A) [emphasis added] The "If" clause is false, so the conclusion is meaningless.
B) This is nothing more than an unsupported assertion, making C), D), and the two bullet points that follow all moot.

Quote
THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER THE EARTH IS ROUND OR FLAT. There are some serious astronomical reasons which compel us to think that the earth is round, but here are some very serious reasons which compel us NOT to believe that the earth is round, either:

If we want to compute the orbital speed of the sun within geocentric ROUND earth model, we have to surmount this huge obstacle :

IF THE EARTH IS ROUND, THEN IT'S ROUNDNESS DICTATES THE VALUES OF THE HEIGHT ANGLES OF THE SUN, THAT IS TO SAY : SUN'S RAYS HAVE TO BE PARALLEL, AND IF THEY WERE PARALLEL, THEN THE SUN WOULD HAVE TO BE AT LEAST SEVERAL TIMES BIGGER THAN EARTH, WHICH MEANS THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE SUN CAN'T BE LESS THAN 3 000 000 MILES (AS COPERNICUS ESTIMATED)...

Now, even if the sun were only 3 000 000 miles (as Copernicus thought), then the length of sun's orbit would be 31 400 000 km and orbital speed of the sun (since within geocentric ROUND earth model the sun has to complete one full circle around the earth DAILY) would be 1 308 333 km/h. In the same way as we don't feel any motion of the earth (and only on the basis of our senses are able to discard idiotic presumptions about different kinds of earth's motion), our senses (eyes) clearly tell us that the sun is not hurling through space at such incredible speed, as well. If the sun were 3,9 times bigger than earth (supposing that the distance to the sun is only 3 000 000 miles) we should ask this question also : Why would so much bigger sun orbit so much smaller earth? That is why geocentric ROUND earth model doesn't add up!

You're right. A much better model is the round (spherical, actually) rotating earth in heliocentric orbit a distance of about 93 000 000 miles from the much larger and more massive sun. That elegantly ties together all our observations.

How do you think our senses should perceive the moving earth? The accelerations involved are much to small to feel, but we can see the effects in the sky, as you note.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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deadsirius

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 12:26:14 PM »
The Earth cannot be spherical and stationary at the same time.

True.

No, not true. The motion of the Earth has absolutley nothing to do with it being a sphere. A motionless body above a certain mass would be a shpere, just like the Earth that spins and orbits the Sun is a shere.

I understand all that--it's just that when Sandokhan says "Earth can't be spherical and stationary", what he means is that it is the flat, immovable center of the universe.  I meant to refute that implication but I guess that wasn't really clear.

Then he wants us to explain how all the water stays on earth without gravity...
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Pezevenk

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 01:02:40 PM »
Don't be silly. The Earth can easily be shown to rotate. It can't be shown to move, because that's how relativity works. Motion is relative.
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Lonegranger

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 01:05:11 PM »
If the earth is at rest, can she still be round? If yes then why, if no then why?

The earth is motionless, there isn't the slightest doubt about that, now since we know for the fact that the earth is at rest, round-earth hypothesis isn't sustainable any more for many reasons.

No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.

The toil of thousands of exasperated researchers, in the extremely varied experiments of Arago, De Coudre's induction, Fizeau, Fresnell drag, Hoek, Jaseja's lasers, Jenkins, Klinkerfuess, Michelson-Morley interferometry, Lord Rayleigh's polarimetry, Troughton-Noble torque, and the famous 'Airy's Failure' experiment, all conclusively failed to show any rotational or translational movement for the earth, whatsoever."

In a short paper it is impossible to enumerate those fruitless efforts of three centuries, all trying to establish incontrovertibly the veracity of Galileo's legendary "Eppur Si muove!". Those interested in particulars will find them sprinkled throughout the extensive literature dealing with the issues involved.

These are quotes about one other experiment (Michelson-Morley experiment) that was performed 10 years after famous Airy's failure experiment (with the same results):

But the fact is, they all knew a non-moving Earth was the simplest solution. Take for example the words of physicist G. J. Whitrow in the 1950s:

“It is both amusing and instructive to speculate on what might have happened if such an experiment could have been performed in the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries when men were debating the rival merits of the Copernican and Ptolemaic systems. The result would surely have been interpreted as conclusive evidence for the immobility of the Earth, and therefore as a triumphant vindication of the Ptolemaic system and irrefutable falsification of the Copernican hypothesis. The moral of this historical fantasy is that it is often dangerous to believe in the absolute verification or falsification of a scientific hypothesis. All judgments of this type are necessarily made in some historical context which may be drastically modified by the changing perspective of human knowledge” (G. J. Whitrow, The Structure and Evolution of the Universe, 1949, 1959, p. 79).

Other scientists also saw a motionless Earth as a possible solution to MMX, but were unwilling to accept it due to their philosophical presuppositions. Of his own MMX experiment, Albert Michelson said: “This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation…which presupposes that the Earth moves.” (“The Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether,” American Journal of Science, Vol. 22, August 1881, p. 125).

Arthur Eddington said the same about MMX: “There was just one alternative; the earth’s true velocity through space might happen to have been nil.” (The Nature of the Physical World, 1929, pp. 11, 8.).

Historian Bernard Jaffe said: “The data were almost unbelievable… There was only one other possible conclusion to draw — that the Earth was at rest.” Jaffe’s philosophical barrier was then revealed when he concluded: “This, of course, was preposterous.” (Michelson and the Speed of Light, 1960, p. 76.).

As "preposterous" as the measurements of Arago, Trouton and Noble, Airy, Thorndyke and Kennedy, Theodore de Coudres and several others. They also found the earth to have a zero velocity through space.

“If Michelson-Morley is wrong (IF AETHER EXISTS), then Relativity is wrong.” (Einstein: The Life and Times, p. 107.).

ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT admitted 160 years ago :

“I have known too, for a long time that we have no argument for the Copernican system, but I shall never dare to be the first to attack it. Don't rush into the wasps' nest. You will bring upon yourself the scorn of the thoughtless multitude… to come forth as the first against opinions, which the world has become fond of - I don't feel the courage.”

LINCOLN BARNETT agrees:
“No physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion.”

And one of the chief participants in the experiment that bears his name (ALBERT A. MICHELSON), stunned by the results that went counter to his own heliocentric reflex:

“This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation… which presupposes that the Earth moves.”

-- If the earth is the center of the universe then the most plausible philosophical assumption is that the earth is the largest object in the universe. But it is not just philosophical assumption, we can also prove this assumption with a simple experiment like this : This simple experiment not only proves that the earth is at rest, it also proves that the sun is very close.

-- Now that we know that the sun is very close to the earth, we can pretty accurate estimate sun's dimensions. So, if the sun is so small (few dozens km in diameter) how can you illuminate SO BIG - ROUND earth in adequate proportions with such a small sun? Geometrically impossible. Even if you bring the sun "ONLY" 100 times closer to the earth (than the official theory claims to be the true distance to the sun), you instantly lose PARALLEL SUN RAYS heliocentric "holy grail" hypothesis. Once, you lost this PARALLEL SUN RAYS EXCUSE, round earth geometry falls to pieces.

-- If the earth is stationary first DIRECT consequence of this truth is an annihilation of the TILT OF THE EARTH hypothesis. As soon as you lost this another heliocentric "holly grail", round earth geometry falls to pieces once again because there is no way how you can account for sun's DAILY UP & DOWN MOTION (as we know it) using such GEOCETRIC-ROUND earth model.

-- It seems that the sun travels in a straight line (at least we see it's trajectory as a straight line). That fact is one ancient argument in favor of the flatness of the earth. I never saw valid refutation of this argument, so although this argument is ancient it is still sound argument in favor of the flat earth hypothesis.

-- If the proportions of the universe remained in the form (size) which is recognized by today's science what would be A DAILY orbital speed of a distant galaxy? Here is the answer :

I have heard EVERY argument that a ball earth proponent can come up with and it still doesn't tell me why out of the hundreds of thousands of satellites, we see none. why nasa, in at least TWO separate NASA MADE videos state that they can go NO HIGHER THAN LOWER EARTH ORBIT when they claim to be ON MOTHERFUCKING MARS!?!?!?!?!

A) If the earth is stationary round-earth geometry falls to pieces!
B) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!
Now, you have to ask yourself this : What is more likely :
C) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is ROUND (although stationary)?
D) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is FLAT and stationary?
-If the earth is round, it wouldn't matter if the earth were stationary, would it? If the earth were round (although stationary) there would be no problem (for NASA or anyone else) to present to us at least ONE SINGLE (if not thousands) AUTHENTIC picture of the earth from space!
-On the other hand, if the earth is flat, there would be a huge problem to show us ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!

THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER THE EARTH IS ROUND OR FLAT. There are some serious astronomical reasons which compel us to think that the earth is round, but here are some very serious reasons which compel us NOT to believe that the earth is round, either:

If we want to compute the orbital speed of the sun within geocentric ROUND earth model, we have to surmount this huge obstacle :

IF THE EARTH IS ROUND, THEN IT'S ROUNDNESS DICTATES THE VALUES OF THE HEIGHT ANGLES OF THE SUN, THAT IS TO SAY : SUN'S RAYS HAVE TO BE PARALLEL, AND IF THEY WERE PARALLEL, THEN THE SUN WOULD HAVE TO BE AT LEAST SEVERAL TIMES BIGGER THAN EARTH, WHICH MEANS THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE SUN CAN'T BE LESS THAN 3 000 000 MILES (AS COPERNICUS ESTIMATED)...

Now, even if the sun were only 3 000 000 miles (as Copernicus thought), then the length of sun's orbit would be 31 400 000 km and orbital speed of the sun (since within geocentric ROUND earth model the sun has to complete one full circle around the earth DAILY) would be 1 308 333 km/h. In the same way as we don't feel any motion of the earth (and only on the basis of our senses are able to discard idiotic presumptions about different kinds of earth's motion), our senses (eyes) clearly tell us that the sun is not hurling through space at such incredible speed, as well. If the sun were 3,9 times bigger than earth (supposing that the distance to the sun is only 3 000 000 miles) we should ask this question also : Why would so much bigger sun orbit so much smaller earth? That is why geocentric ROUND earth model doesn't add up!

The only things no that is still is your brain activity.
The earth s a sphere, all that you post is 100% pureflat earth hogwash.

http://www.cosmosplus.com/live

The fact that there is day and night, old Foucault’s pendulum etc....

The problem however you don't want to debate the idea as it's not up for debate, as reality clearly demonstrates the earth is a sphere. All the other planets are spheres and they all rotate, though not all in the same way. I wonder if your head rotates which could account for your mad behaviour.




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cikljamas

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 03:07:01 PM »
There are too many proofs that the earth is at rest, but i would like to show you one very primitive example which corroborates this already 100 % proven fact :

>>>A strong cast-iron cannon was placed with the muzzle upwards. The barrel was carefully tested with a plumb line, so that its true vertical direction was secured; and the breech of the gun was firmly embedded in sand up to the touch-hole, against which a piece of slow match was placed. The cannon had been loaded with powder and ball, previous to its position being secured. At a given moment the slow match at D was fired, and the operator retired to a shed. The explosion took place, and the ball was discharged in the direction A, B. In thirty seconds the ball fell back to the earth, from B to C; the point of contact, C, was only 8 inches from the gun, A. This experiment has been many times tried, and several times the ball fell back upon the mouth of the cannon; but the greatest deviation was less than 2 feet, and the average time of absence was 28 seconds; from which it is concluded that the earth on which the gun was placed did not move from its position during the 28 seconds the ball was in the atmosphere. Had there been motion in the direction from west to east, and at the rate of 600 miles per hour (the supposed velocity in the latitude of England), the result would have been as shown in fig. 49. The ball, thrown by the powder in the direction A, C, and acted on at the same moment by the earth's motion in the direction A, B, would take the direction A, D; meanwhile the earth and the cannon would have reached the position B, opposite to D. On the ball beginning to descend, and during the time of its descent, the gun would have passed on to the position S, and the ball would have dropped at B, a consider-able distance behind the point S. As the average time of the ball's absence in the atmosphere was 28 seconds--14 going upwards, and 14 in falling--we have only to multiply the time by the supposed velocity of the earth, and we find that instead of the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun, it should have fallen behind it a distance of 8400 feet, or more than a mile and a half! Such a result is utterly destructive of the idea of the earth's possible rotation.<<<

First of all, Mr Rowbotham calculated wrong : the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun should have fallen behind it more than 4.6 miles (not "more than a mile and a half")!!!

Now, i would like to point out a few important details in relation to this experiment :

1. When the ball was discharged upwards, gravitational pull ceased to make any significant influence (for all intents and purposes) to the ball during it's 28 seconds long vertical flight!

2. The ball was able to penetrate air in it's upward direction of flight (all the way to the point when gravitational pull regained/resumed it's influence to that ball after 14th seconds of the first half of it's vertical flight), and the ball was perfectly able to pass (in the same manner) through the air in it's downward path - coming back to the earth, also.

3. Since the ball was able to penetrate air in it's upward and downward direction we can be sure that this same ball would be able to pass through any kind of a supposed air flow which could theoretically blow (due to the alleged lateral motion of the atmosphere - in relation to the flying ball - due to the alleged rotation of the earth)

THE QUESTION : Having in mind above three enumerated information i would like to hear from any HC maniac what kind of physical mechanism could provide/caused 4,6 miles long ALLEGED lateral displacement of the ball during it's 28 seconds long vertical flight???
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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AlphaSailor

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 03:17:24 PM »
There are too many proofs that the earth is at rest, but i would like to show you one very primitive example which corroborates this already 100 % proven fact :

>>>A strong cast-iron cannon was placed with the muzzle upwards. The barrel was carefully tested with a plumb line, so that its true vertical direction was secured; and the breech of the gun was firmly embedded in sand up to the touch-hole, against which a piece of slow match was placed. The cannon had been loaded with powder and ball, previous to its position being secured. At a given moment the slow match at D was fired, and the operator retired to a shed. The explosion took place, and the ball was discharged in the direction A, B. In thirty seconds the ball fell back to the earth, from B to C; the point of contact, C, was only 8 inches from the gun, A. This experiment has been many times tried, and several times the ball fell back upon the mouth of the cannon; but the greatest deviation was less than 2 feet, and the average time of absence was 28 seconds; from which it is concluded that the earth on which the gun was placed did not move from its position during the 28 seconds the ball was in the atmosphere. Had there been motion in the direction from west to east, and at the rate of 600 miles per hour (the supposed velocity in the latitude of England), the result would have been as shown in fig. 49. The ball, thrown by the powder in the direction A, C, and acted on at the same moment by the earth's motion in the direction A, B, would take the direction A, D; meanwhile the earth and the cannon would have reached the position B, opposite to D. On the ball beginning to descend, and during the time of its descent, the gun would have passed on to the position S, and the ball would have dropped at B, a consider-able distance behind the point S. As the average time of the ball's absence in the atmosphere was 28 seconds--14 going upwards, and 14 in falling--we have only to multiply the time by the supposed velocity of the earth, and we find that instead of the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun, it should have fallen behind it a distance of 8400 feet, or more than a mile and a half! Such a result is utterly destructive of the idea of the earth's possible rotation.<<<

I know right!  Just last week I was driving down the highway and my kid tried to flip a coin in the air, but the damn thing shot right out my back window because I was moving at 60mph.

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frenat

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2017, 03:22:11 PM »
no mechanism necessary.  The ball was moving with the Earth before firing and the cannon isn't magical to make it lose that momentum.  But thanks for the humor.

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Sam Hill

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2017, 03:25:27 PM »
The Earth cannot be spherical and stationary at the same time.
Well, good thing it's not stationary then.

The RE will have to explain how four trillion billion gallons of water stay glued next to the outer surface of a sphere, without using attractive gravity.
Why bother, when gravity is a thing?

Guess we're done here.

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cikljamas

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2017, 03:35:23 PM »
no mechanism necessary.  The ball was moving with the Earth before firing and the cannon isn't magical to make it lose that momentum.  But thanks for the humor.

Read this short exchange of thoughts (between one heliocentrist and me) and try to learn one very important lesson :
If your myth of inertia contained a shred of truth, then this scenario (IN WHICH EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE IS TREATED AS A VACUUM) would also be true : Just imagine one small-slow airplane which max speed is not higher than 100 mi/h, now let's attach our small plane below the wing of B-52 which max. speed is 650 mi/h, now B-52 is taking off, reaching his max. speed and dropping our small-slow plane so that he could fly independently...THE QUESTION IS THIS : Which airplane should fly faster in accordance with HC utterly stupid myth of inertia??? THE ANSWER IS THIS : Our small plane should fly faster because his max. speed is the sum of the next factors :

1. Initial inertia gained (AND PERMANENTLY RETAINED !!!) by the spin of the earth before taking off
2. Inertia gained (AND PERMANENTLY RETAINED !!!) by the max. speed of B-52 before dropping small plane so that he could fly independently
3. It's own max. speed : 100 mi/h

However, max speed of B-52 is the sum of the next factors :
1. Initial inertia gained (AND PERMANENTLY RETAINED !!!) by the spin of the earth before taking off
2. It's own max. speed : 650 mi/h
--------------------------------------------
BALLTARD'S ATTEMPT TO RESPOND TO THIS CHALLENGE :
>>>>>>>>>>The thrust is no longer greater than the drag and the airplane slows down....<<<<<<<<<<<
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ODIUPICKU'S (that's me :)) RESPOND TO ABOVE STUPIDITY : So, you admit that air drag can counteract inertia, but you can't retain both premises :
1. Air drag has no impact on inertia (myth of inertia in which ball-earthers believe and how they promote it)
2. Air drag has an impact on inertia (when you have to find stupid excuse for why small plane can't retain (not even for the moment) it's inertia gained by the max. speed of B-52, but can PERMANENTLY retain inertia gained by the alleged spin of the earth...LOL...LOL...LOL...FACEPALM...FACEPALM...FACEPALM... You guys are so deluded that it's really beyond imagination...How somebody can be so intellectually dishonest towards himself it will always be mystery to me...THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is important to note that much of the resistance to what we call the Copernican Revolution derived from the fact that for some time it left many important questions unanswered - in particular, how the planets and stars moved and cohered without the celestial spheres. One central insight was the switch from Aristotle's belief in projectile motion, in which a moving object must be acted upon directly to keep moving, to the modern concept of INERTIA, in which a moving object keeps moving unless stopped by wind drag or something else. So, Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to any change in its state of motion; this includes changes to its speed, direction, or state of rest. It is the tendency of objects to keep moving in a straight line at constant velocity. The principle of inertia is one of the fundamental principles of classical physics that are used to describe the motion of objects and how they are affected by applied forces.

AS YOU CAN SEE IF WE APPLIED MY EXAMPLE TO THE CONTEXT OF SPACE (AS IT IS DEPICTED BY MODERN SCIENTISTS BUT WHICH DOESN'T EXIST AS SUCH), THAT IS TO SAY TO THE CONTEXT OF VACUUM-ENVIRONMENT, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO ADMIT THAT REALITY DOESN'T CORRESPOND WITH YOUR IMAGINARY LAWS OF PHYSICS (BECAUSE EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE ISN'T VACUUM, AND HASN'T GOT SIMILAR PROPERTIES OF VACUUM. HOWEVER, IF YOU GIVE UP FROM TREATING EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE AS A VACUUM (IN THE CONTEXT OF INERTIA MYTH), THEN YOU HAVE TO FACE ONE ANOTHER SET OF PROBLEMS WHICH I HAVE ALREADY POINTED OUT IN MY PREVIOUS POSTS :

When we free our small-slow airplane from B-52, B-52 is going to leave behind our small airplane so RAPIDLY that it would seem as if our small airplane has jumped from B-52 with parachute....Air drag would do it, wouldn't it? So, our airplane would be RAPIDLY slowed down almost to the point of total immobility. In your HC fairytale such point of total immobility actually means continuation of movement due to the imaginary spin of the earth. If we jumped from an airplane without a parachute, our bodies would be eventually smashed after hitting the ground with great velocity, but before we hit the ground we are going to enjoy falling towards the earth and while we are falling down towards the earth we will feel air resistance caused by passing through the air which is placed below us, but we wont feel any east-west air drag. Exactly the same thing that would happen to our bodies (right after jumping from an airplane) would have happened (long time ago) to every single molecule of air. Every single molecule of air would be "glued" to the correspondent latitudinal point on the earth. What would that mean? Plain and simple : it would mean absolute absence of any wind anywhere within our atmosphere, there is no way around it.

So, if what you believe in were true there would be :

no winds
no jet streams
no known effects of "coriolis force" (which is the consequence of the motion of the sun above the motionless earth - wind patterns match sun's path above the earth 100 %)
no ocean currents (because alleged "big G" is not strong enough to overcome centrifugal force in order to keep oceans from flying off into space!!! On the other hand if gravity ("big G") were strong enough to overcome centrifugal force so that oceans could stick to the earth then the flow of ocean currents wouldn't be possible, people wouldn't be able to walk or even breathing (we would be literally nailed/smashed to the surface of the earth right away), not to mention how it would be impossible for insects and birds to fly in an atmosphere which couldn't even exist in it's present form, in the first place...Is the Amount of Gravity (pressure or invisible force) over the Ocean the same "Amount of Gravity" over us humans here on earth? If it's "not" then why? If it is then why are we not "squashed" like a bug?)

Another thing that you have to deal with (which demands your ludicrous belief system) is a necessity to figure out and postulate one completely new definition of inertia because this is exactly what your inertia turns out to be :

An air is trapped by gravity, a plane is trapped by air, and as the earth turns an air turns with the earth, and as an air turns with the earth, an airplane (trapped by an air ) turns with the earth too, and voila, this is your inertia. Is it not?

This is not inertia, at all, this is old Aristotle's belief in projectile motion, in which a moving object must be acted upon directly to keep moving...

Your ludicrous inertia could hypothetically work in above described manner while airplanes fly eastbound or westbound, but what would happen if airplanes tried to fly towards north or towards south in a straight line?

Any attempt to fly towards north would produce enormous lateral deceleration force!
Any attempt to fly towards south would produce enormous lateral speedup force!

Nobody has ever felt or detected - by any means - such a force!

When we are talking about orbital paths of planets and moons and the sun, relative motion can be said to be valid (and this is completely discounting any aether). But what about when we are talking about motion within a medium such as air? There is obviously a difference the two mediums, space and the air, is there not? How would this affect the calculation of relative motion? Well, the "original motion" component would not be changed, true, but the drag effect sure would. And what would be the "carrying force" working to maintain the original motion?

Let's use my favorite airplane flight example to crunch this "original motion" factor. Yes, a plane could be said to be rotating at the 600 mph speed of O'Hare airport in Chicago when it departed. And then, as the plane left the surface of the ground, it separated from what was its obvious "engine" or "original motion carrying force" and was definitely running head on into major drag, the air. Contrasted with the example of a rocket having blasted off the earth and heading to the moon, the rocket will retain the original speed of the earth that it was on because the rocket is flying to the moon in a vacuum (for the sake of this argument anyway), and there is no drag to slow down its original motion.

But what keeps the airplane's "original motion" going? One can only postulate so many things: gravity or the air being the two obvious ones. But gravity only pulls downward and not laterally, and the air, well, it cannot have any ability to "push" or "carry" the plane because it is a gas. (Remember, if it's a rotating-with-the-earth solid, the plane couldn't fly through it anyway...CATCH 22)

The natural effect of the plane not having an impetus to maintain its "original motion" is that the plane will obviously lose angular velocity to the earth's faster rotation below. And if it loses even a little, will it not lose it entirely? Of course. Whatever link there was between the two has been severed. The drag of the atmosphere will illustrate this every time.

What this all means is that if the "original motion" component of the plane is not maintained, then explaining its observed travel reality by resorting to "relative motion" (just like for outer space bodies where the original motion IS maintained) is fatally wounded. So therefore, to conclude that the difference in mediums does not affect the way relative motion would work is not logical, but that is the enemy's stance, as far as I can tell.
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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frenat

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2017, 03:46:48 PM »
Posting the exact same post in multiple threads is generally considered spam.

But thanks for proving you still don't understand inertia, or drag.  Was your massive word salad supposed to mean anything other than showing you don't have a clue?

By the way I'd love to see you calculate your " enormous lateral" force for a North or South bound plane, divide that by the time of flight and then see if it first is really that "enormous" and second, if it would even be noticed among the wind.  I'm betting you won't though.

Nothing is needed to keep the "original motion going".  But thanks again for proving you still don't understand momentum or Newton's first law.

and it is also apparent that you don't understand gravity.  I guess the words proportional to mass mean nothing to you?  But thanks again for the humor.  Are you related to spamdokahn by any chance?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 03:51:00 PM by frenat »

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armyhorn8

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2017, 03:54:12 PM »
There are too many proofs that the earth is at rest, but i would like to show you one very primitive example which corroborates this already 100 % proven fact :

>>>A strong cast-iron cannon was placed with the muzzle upwards. The barrel was carefully tested with a plumb line, so that its true vertical direction was secured; and the breech of the gun was firmly embedded in sand up to the touch-hole, against which a piece of slow match was placed. The cannon had been loaded with powder and ball, previous to its position being secured. At a given moment the slow match at D was fired, and the operator retired to a shed. The explosion took place, and the ball was discharged in the direction A, B. In thirty seconds the ball fell back to the earth, from B to C; the point of contact, C, was only 8 inches from the gun, A. This experiment has been many times tried, and several times the ball fell back upon the mouth of the cannon; but the greatest deviation was less than 2 feet, and the average time of absence was 28 seconds; from which it is concluded that the earth on which the gun was placed did not move from its position during the 28 seconds the ball was in the atmosphere. Had there been motion in the direction from west to east, and at the rate of 600 miles per hour (the supposed velocity in the latitude of England), the result would have been as shown in fig. 49. The ball, thrown by the powder in the direction A, C, and acted on at the same moment by the earth's motion in the direction A, B, would take the direction A, D; meanwhile the earth and the cannon would have reached the position B, opposite to D. On the ball beginning to descend, and during the time of its descent, the gun would have passed on to the position S, and the ball would have dropped at B, a consider-able distance behind the point S. As the average time of the ball's absence in the atmosphere was 28 seconds--14 going upwards, and 14 in falling--we have only to multiply the time by the supposed velocity of the earth, and we find that instead of the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun, it should have fallen behind it a distance of 8400 feet, or more than a mile and a half! Such a result is utterly destructive of the idea of the earth's possible rotation.<<<

First of all, Mr Rowbotham calculated wrong : the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun should have fallen behind it more than 4.6 miles (not "more than a mile and a half")!!!

Now, i would like to point out a few important details in relation to this experiment :

1. When the ball was discharged upwards, gravitational pull ceased to make any significant influence (for all intents and purposes) to the ball during it's 28 seconds long vertical flight!

2. The ball was able to penetrate air in it's upward direction of flight (all the way to the point when gravitational pull regained/resumed it's influence to that ball after 14th seconds of the first half of it's vertical flight), and the ball was perfectly able to pass (in the same manner) through the air in it's downward path - coming back to the earth, also.

3. Since the ball was able to penetrate air in it's upward and downward direction we can be sure that this same ball would be able to pass through any kind of a supposed air flow which could theoretically blow (due to the alleged lateral motion of the atmosphere - in relation to the flying ball - due to the alleged rotation of the earth)

THE QUESTION : Having in mind above three enumerated information i would like to hear from any HC maniac what kind of physical mechanism could provide/caused 4,6 miles long ALLEGED lateral displacement of the ball during it's 28 seconds long vertical flight???

Where to even begin on this...?

The gravitational pull never ceased at any point. Gravity is what caused the cannonball do decelerate, the very same force which pulls it back down. Gravity exerted the same amount of force on the ball its entire trajectory.

The ball is moving at the same speed as the surface of the Earth at the moment of launch. That lateral speed doesn't suddenly disappear once it has left the cannon. Now, in a perfect scenario, the cannonball would end up very slightly behind the launch point. That's because before launch, it is travelling the circumference of the earth. Once launched, it is higher up, and is travelling on a circle with a greater circumference than the earth, meaning it travels fewer degrees of the circle for its given speed. When it comes back down, it had to travel a greater distance at a constant (lateral) velocity, and will have lost some ground. But that amount is less than the error margins for the experiment.

This is nitpicky, but the upward flight of the cannonball would be shorter than the fall, considering that exit velocity from the cannon is high than the terminal velocity of its fall.

There are so many things wrong with the presuppositions of the experiment, with the experiment itself, and with the analyzing of the data gathered in the experiment, that the experiment is effectively worthless.

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JackBlack

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2017, 04:46:38 PM »
If the earth is at rest, can she still be round? If yes then why, if no then why?
Yes, the shape of Earth has nothing to do with if it is moving or not, and vice versa.


The earth is motionless, there isn't the slightest doubt about that, now since we know for the fact that the earth is at rest, round-earth hypothesis isn't sustainable any more for many reasons.
No. You have it the wrong way around.
Earth is moving. There is no doubt about that.
All arguments for a stationary Earth contain massive flaws.

No experiment has ever been performed with such excruciating persistence and meticulous precision, and in every conceivable manner, than that of trying to detect and measure the motion of the Earth. Yet they have all consistently and continually yielded a velocity for the Earth of exactly ZERO mph.
You mean linear motion or rotational motion?
For rotational motion, they have all fairly consistently measured a speed of 15 degrees an hour on a round Earth.

For linear motion, you cannot detect it, you can only detect it relative to other objects.
We have detected a variety of speeds depending upon what object you are using.

But the fact is, they all knew a non-moving Earth was the simplest solution. Take for example the words of physicist G. J. Whitrow in the 1950s:
No it isn't. The simplest solution has Earth orbitting the sun, just like all the other planets, and rotating about its axis. Otherwise you have to explain some seriously insane paths which make no sense at all.
Also, these were carried out long after we KNEW Earth was round.

The result would surely have been interpreted as conclusive evidence for the immobility of the Earth
Except, while some experiments showed no movement, others did. They were not consistent with each other.

For example, Michelson Morley showed no movement relative to the aether.
But Airy's failure was an experiment based upon movement relative to this aether that was already detected.
It wasn't to determine if there was relative motion, it was to determine if the aether was moving or Earth was, it was a failure because regardless of which, the same result would occur.
But again, Michelson Morley showed no relative movement of the aether.
The Sagnac experiment showed rotational motion relative to the aether.

So we have contradictory experiments, some show motion relative to the aether, supporting an aether model of light, others show no motion, supporting a ballistic model of light.

When taken together it shows both models of light are wrong.

So no, they wouldn't be taken by any rational people to be proof that Earth is stationary.

Relativity is capable of explaining all the results.

As "preposterous" as the measurements of Arago, Trouton and Noble, Airy, Thorndyke and Kennedy, Theodore de Coudres and several others. They also found the earth to have a zero velocity through space.
But the important thing to note is that Airy (among others) measured a motion relative to the aether.
None measured the speed of Earth, just the speed of Earth relative to the aether.
Some showed no motion, some showed motion.

“If Michelson-Morley is wrong (IF AETHER EXISTS), then Relativity is wrong.” (Einstein: The Life and Times, p. 107.).
And if he is wrong, is the aether stationary or moving?
According to that experiment, it is stationary relative to Earth. According to Sagnac and Airy, it is moving relative to Earth.
It can't be both.
This shows that the aether model is incapable of explaining light and thus it likely doesn't exist.

“No physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion.”
Because all experiments are only capable of measuring relative linear motion. So all you would do is prove that Earth is moving relative to some object.

However experiments have detected Earth's rotational motion.

-- If the earth is the center of the universe then the most plausible philosophical assumption is that the earth is the largest object in the universe. But it is not just philosophical assumption, we can also prove this assumption with a simple experiment like this : This simple experiment not only proves that the earth is at rest, it also proves that the sun is very close.
No. It doesn't. It shows a complete ignorance of light trails.
They are identical if the object is moving or the camera is.
In your 3 seconds the sun would have changed angular position by roughly 0.0125 degrees.
The size of the sun is roughly 0.5 degrees.
So it wouldn't be detectable.
During your 20 cm motion to the left, you change the angle of the camera, resulting in a massive change.
So no, it proves no such thing.

-- Now that we know that the sun is very close to the earth
You know no such thing. You are just baselessly asserting it.

So, if the sun is so small (few dozens km in diameter) how can you illuminate SO BIG - ROUND earth in adequate proportions with such a small sun? Geometrically impossible.
And do you know what is even more impossible? Illuminating the sections of Earth which are illuminated. The angles to the sun at various times.

Even if you bring the sun "ONLY" 100 times closer to the earth
This makes no sense. Do you mean bring it to one 100th of the distance?
If so, that puts it at 150 000 km. The change in angle from one side to the other (which I will round up to 13 000 km for simplicity) would thus be a mere 5 degrees, not much, and still much closer to reality than that predicted by the FE model.

Once, you lost this PARALLEL SUN RAYS EXCUSE, round earth geometry falls to pieces.
Good thing we haven't lost it as you haven't shown the sun is close.

-- If the earth is stationary first DIRECT consequence of this truth is an annihilation of the TILT OF THE EARTH hypothesis. As soon as you lost this another heliocentric "holly grail", round earth geometry falls to pieces once again because there is no way how you can account for sun's DAILY UP & DOWN MOTION (as we know it) using such GEOCETRIC-ROUND earth model.
It is actually the other way around.
Without the tilt you have no explanation for the sun's path. It makes no sense at all. And it doesn't matter if Earth is flat or round, it makes no sense.

It seems that the sun travels in a straight line (at least we see it's trajectory as a straight line). That fact is one ancient argument in favor of the flatness of the earth. I never saw valid refutation of this argument, so although this argument is ancient it is still sound argument in favor of the flat earth hypothesis.
No. It doesn't. It looks like it travels in a circular arc.
The only place that would happen on a FE is at the north pole. Every where else should see it appear to travel in an ellipse.

A real killer is the equator on the equinox.
Here the sun appears to rise due east, go directly overhead, and set due west, travelling in a circle in a plane perpendicular to the surface of Earth. But that would require it to go underneath the flat Earth, which never happens.
Instead, in the FE model it is meant to be above Earth at all times, circling in a plane parallel to the surface of Earth.
Rather than rising due east, going directly overhead and setting due west, it should rise from the north east (more technically it should appear well above the horizon from a north east direction), go directly overhead and then set (again, technically just disappear, well above the horizon) north west.

Notice how the observations do not match the FE model.

But in the RE model, with either Earth spinning on its axis, or the sun moving around Earth, at the equinox, the sun traces a circle above the equator, in the same plane as the equator.
This perfectly matches observations. When you have a distant sun, this also matches the observations of everywhere else in the world where it appears to rise due east and set due west on the equinox.

So it isn't looking good for a FE.

If you haven't seen a valid refutation of your baseless claim, you likely have been ignoring them.

-- If the proportions of the universe remained in the form (size) which is recognized by today's science what would be A DAILY orbital speed of a distant galaxy? Here is the answer
Yes, quite massive. But in the FE, the position of this galaxy makes no sense at all.

I have heard EVERY argument that a ball earth proponent can come up with and it still doesn't tell me why out of the hundreds of thousands of satellites, we see none. why nasa, in at least TWO separate NASA MADE videos state that they can go NO HIGHER THAN LOWER EARTH ORBIT when they claim to be ON MOTHERFUCKING MARS!?!?!?!?!
Because they are tiny. If you use binoculars, you can see them at the right time. Alternatively you can occasionally see a bright flashing light passing overhead, much too high and much too fast for a plane.

NASA has never stated we can't go higher than low Earth orbit.

A) If the earth is stationary round-earth geometry falls to pieces!
B) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!
Now, you have to ask yourself this : What is more likely :
C) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is ROUND (although stationary)?
D) There isn't ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space because the earth is FLAT and stationary?
-If the earth is round, it wouldn't matter if the earth were stationary, would it? If the earth were round (although stationary) there would be no problem (for NASA or anyone else) to present to us at least ONE SINGLE (if not thousands) AUTHENTIC picture of the earth from space!
A - No it doesn't. The geometry remains the same regardless of if Earth is moving or stationary.
B - Sure there is, you just reject them.
C - But there are plenty, which clearly show Earth being round.
D - If Earth was flat, why don't we have a picture of Earth from space showing all of it?

-On the other hand, if the earth is flat, there would be a huge problem to show us ONE SINGLE authentic picture of the earth from space!
No, there would be no problem. They could take a picture of the flat Earth and show us that.

THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER THE EARTH IS ROUND OR FLAT. There are some serious astronomical reasons which compel us to think that the earth is round, but here are some very serious reasons which compel us NOT to believe that the earth is round, either:
There are very serious astronomical reasons to believe Earth is round. There is not a single one to believe Earth is flat.

If we want to compute the orbital speed of the sun within geocentric ROUND earth model, we have to surmount this huge obstacle
Which just further shows Earth to be moving. It doesn't show Earth to be flat.

IF THE EARTH IS ROUND, THEN IT'S ROUNDNESS DICTATES THE VALUES OF THE HEIGHT ANGLES OF THE SUN, THAT IS TO SAY : SUN'S RAYS HAVE TO BE PARALLEL, AND IF THEY WERE PARALLEL, THEN THE SUN WOULD HAVE TO BE AT LEAST SEVERAL TIMES BIGGER THAN EARTH, WHICH MEANS THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE SUN CAN'T BE LESS THAN 3 000 000 MILES (AS COPERNICUS ESTIMATED)...
Again, not evidence for Earth to be flat.
The angles to the sun make no sense on a flat Earth.
So if you are going to appeal to angles, that shows that Earth is round and the sun is far away.
There isn't a solution to Earth being flat and the sun circling above us.
The only possible solution is the sun is very far away and Earth is round.

For example, consider 3 points on the equinox, the equator, 45 degrees north and the north pole.
The observed angles:
Equator - straight up.
45 degrees north - 45 degrees.
North pole - Almost right at the horizon.

For a FE using the first 2 places the sun 5000 km above the equator.
Using the first and third, you have the sun basically 0 km above the equator.
Using the second and third, you have basically 0 km above 45 degrees north.

3 different sets of points, 3 completely different sun positions.
You can also use bearings.
Consider 3 points on the equator at the equinox.
Sun-rising due east, sun directly overhead and sun setting due west.
Using the first and middle, you have the sun in a physically impossible position which makes no sense at all.
If it is overhead on the equator it should be north east at sunrise, not due east.
Taking the sunrise and sun set, it places the sun very far off Earth no where near the equator, again.

Now compare that with a round Earth with a close sun.
In this case with it directly overhead the equator, it would not be visible at the north pole, so it can't be real.
Similarly, it couldn't be rising and setting half way around the world.
So clearly it is very distant, lets assume it is so distant the slight change in angle from moving around Earth will be 0.
That means for the 3 points, the equator, north pole and 45 degrees north:
The equator it is directly above.
As 45 degrees north is 45 degrees north of that, the sun will be 45 degrees lower in the horizon, making it appear at 45 degrees.
As the north pole is an additional 45 degrees north, the sun will appear a further 45 degrees lower, making it appear near 0 degrees.

Similarly, with the 3 points around the equator, it is directly overhead one point, rising around 1/4 of the world away, due east, and setting 1/4 of the world away in the opposite directing, due west.

These angles ONLY make sense on a round Earth with a distant sun.

So if Earth is stationary, the sun has to be moving in a ridiculous path at a ridiculous speed for its size.

Rational people will accept that as indicating Earth is moving.

Now, even if the sun were only 3 000 000 miles (as Copernicus thought), then the length of sun's orbit would be 31 400 000 km and orbital speed of the sun (since within geocentric ROUND earth model the sun has to complete one full circle around the earth DAILY) would be 1 308 333 km/h. In the same way as we don't feel any motion of the earth (and only on the basis of our senses are able to discard idiotic presumptions about different kinds of earth's motion), our senses (eyes) clearly tell us that the sun is not hurling through space at such incredible speed, as well. If the sun were 3,9 times bigger than earth (supposing that the distance to the sun is only 3 000 000 miles) we should ask this question also : Why would so much bigger sun orbit so much smaller earth? That is why geocentric ROUND earth model doesn't add up!
Again, just further evidence that Earth is moving, not that Earth is flat.
Yes, they are massive problems for a stationary round Earth, but they indicate the stationary part is wrong, not the round part.

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JackBlack

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2017, 04:52:13 PM »
There are too many proofs that the earth is at rest, but i would like to show you one very primitive example which corroborates this already 100 % proven fact :
First of all, Mr Rowbotham calculated wrong
You are right, he calculated wrong, there are no proofs Earth is stationary.

He used magic inertia where the ball stops moving at the peak of its path, rather than continuing to move.

He is also only considering the translational motion, not the rotation, so I wont bother with that.

The ball starts out moving at a speed of vx in the x direction, as does the cannon.
It is launched up, so it now has a vz component, but I will ignore that for now.
At no point in time is there ever a force in the x direction (as you are ignoring air resistance). Instead, the only force acting is gravity which acts in the z direction.
As such, the ball will always have a velocity in the x direction of vx, just like the gun.
As such, when the ball is at the same z position as the gun, it will be in the same position as the gun. It will never be behind or ahead.

In reality, there will be some air resistance and random turbulence and the rotation (not linear motion) of Earth will have an effect giving large errors.


So no, this doesn't prove Earth is stationary. It proves the dishonesty of flat Earthers.

Try jumping in a plane.
Even if you are just in the air for 0.2 seconds, you should fly 30 m backwards according to his reasoning and 60 according to yours.

But what happens? You land in the same spot.
So are planes flying above Earth stationary?

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JackBlack

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2017, 04:55:20 PM »
Read this short exchange of thoughts (between one heliocentrist and me) and try to learn one very important lesson :
Already did. Already refuted it.

This sums up your problem perfectly:
But what keeps the airplane's "original motion" going?
It is called inertia. An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by a force.

Nothing is needed to keep the original motion going. You need a force to stop that original motion.

The drag of the atmosphere will illustrate this every time.
The drag of the atmosphere is based upon relative velocity.
Another example of it is the wind, where it can make objects move on your allegedly stationary Earth.

The drag of the atmosphere doesn't make objects approach V=0.
It makes objects approach DeltaV=0, i.e. it tries to make the objects move with the same speed as the atmosphere.

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2017, 07:17:51 PM »
There are too many proofs that the earth is at rest

No. There are none at all. The only evidence that might suggest the earth is at rest is ambiguous.

Quote
but i would like to show you one very primitive example which corroborates this already 100 % proven fact :

<florid description of an experiment that never took place>

First of all, Mr Rowbotham calculated wrong : the ball coming down to within a few inches of the muzzle of the gun should have fallen behind it more than 4.6 miles (not "more than a mile and a half")!!!

That's not the first thing Mr. Rowbotham has gotten wrong. It's not the last, either.

But just to be pedantic, "more than 4.6 miles" is "more than a mile and a half" (it's 3.1 miles more!) So in that sense, he's technically correct, and he needs all the help he can get to have much of what he says be correct.

Quote
Now, i would like to point out a few important details in relation to this experiment :

1. When the ball was discharged upwards, gravitational pull ceased to make any significant influence (for all intents and purposes) to the ball during it's 28 seconds long vertical flight!

Really? Why does it return to earth, then?

Quote
2. The ball was able to penetrate air in it's upward direction of flight (all the way to the point when gravitational pull regained/resumed it's influence to that ball after 14th seconds of the first half of it's vertical flight), and the ball was perfectly able to pass (in the same manner) through the air in it's downward path - coming back to the earth, also.

Why would gravity "switch back on" at a certain time? That makes no sense.

Quote
3. Since the ball was able to penetrate air in it's upward and downward direction we can be sure that this same ball would be able to pass through any kind of a supposed air flow which could theoretically blow (due to the alleged lateral motion of the atmosphere - in relation to the flying ball - due to the alleged rotation of the earth)

This "alleged" motion of the atmosphere with respect to the ground is called "wind". If you don't realize that wind really exists, you need to get outside more.

Quote
THE QUESTION : Having in mind above three enumerated information i would like to hear from any HC maniac what kind of physical mechanism could provide/caused 4,6 miles long ALLEGED lateral displacement of the ball during it's 28 seconds long vertical flight???

The initial lateral velocity of the cannon when the ball was ejected from the barrel. It's the same as the lateral velocity of the ground.

That was easy.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Twerp

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 07:33:00 PM »
In my experience the more you rest the rounder you get. Why would the mother earth be any different?
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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wise

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 11:12:44 PM »
The Earth cannot be spherical and stationary at the same time.

The RE will have to explain how four trillion billion gallons of water stay glued next to the outer surface of a sphere, without using attractive gravity.

He (somebody) is a troll homo playing role of girl.

(Look at the date)

WERERPC LEVEL2

NIGHT ENDS IN (ESTIMATED):


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CptObvious

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2017, 11:33:19 PM »
Try this: Get the cannon on a vehicle, repeat experiment while the vehicle is moving.
Next Thread: "Moving car is stationary!"
Oh wait, you don't have to!



That cart is not stationary at all. Just as earth isn't.
Here is the earth with the moon, just for you:
O.

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cikljamas

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2017, 03:39:38 AM »
@ JackBlack & Alpha2Omega

The very fact that the bullet/the ball can stay in the air for 28 long seconds proves that gravitational pull (no matter what is the real nature of that force) is VERY VERY WEAK, which is totally in contradiction with needed conditions which gravitational force should feature within HC hypothetical (rotational motion of the earth + orbital motion of the earth) scenario which i have depicted with these words :

Quote
Exactly the same thing that would happen to our bodies (right after jumping from an airplane) would have happened (long time ago) to every single molecule of air. Every single molecule of air would be "glued" to the correspondent latitudinal point on the earth. What would that mean? Plain and simple : it would mean absolute absence of any wind anywhere within our atmosphere, there is no way around it.

So, if what you believe in were true there would be :

no winds
no jet streams
no known effects of "coriolis force" (which is the consequence of the motion of the sun above the motionless earth - wind patterns match sun's path above the earth 100 %)
no ocean currents (because alleged "big G" is not strong enough to overcome centrifugal force in order to keep oceans from flying off into space!!! On the other hand if gravity ("big G") were strong enough to overcome centrifugal force so that oceans could stick to the earth then the flow of ocean currents wouldn't be possible, people wouldn't be able to walk or even breathing (we would be literally nailed/smashed to the surface of the earth right away), not to mention how it would be impossible for insects and birds to fly in an atmosphere which couldn't even exist in it's present form, in the first place...Is the Amount of Gravity (pressure or invisible force) over the Ocean the same "Amount of Gravity" over us humans here on earth? If it's "not" then why? If it is then why are we not "squashed" like a bug?)

Another thing that you have to deal with (which demands your ludicrous belief system) is a necessity to figure out and postulate one completely new definition of inertia because this is exactly what your inertia turns out to be :

An air is trapped by gravity, a plane is trapped by air, and as the earth turns an air turns with the earth, and as an air turns with the earth, an airplane (trapped by an air ) turns with the earth too, and voila, this is your inertia. Is it not?

This is not inertia, at all, this is an old Aristotle's belief in projectile motion, in which a moving object must be acted upon directly to keep moving...

So, when i said this :

1. When the ball was discharged upwards, gravitational pull ceased to make any significant influence (for all intents and purposes) to the ball during it's 28 seconds long vertical flight!

i meant to say this :

Gravitational pull is so weak that it's strenght allows us to easily fire heavy cannon bullets vertically in the air so that they can stay aloft for many, many seconds before they fall back to the earth!!!

When i said this :

2. The ball was able to penetrate air in it's upward direction of flight (all the way to the point when gravitational pull regained/resumed it's influence to that ball after 14th seconds of the first half of it's vertical flight), and the ball was perfectly able to pass (in the same manner) through the air in it's downward path - coming back to the earth, also.

i meant to say this :

While flying upward the ball is freed from the influence of the weak gravitational pull to the much greater extent than it is the case during it's downward trajectory. This condition (being freed from the full strength of the gravitational pull during the first half of it's vertical (upward) flight) would allow the ball to lag behind the rigid earth because the air hasn't got the property of pushing laterally the ball in the direction of alleged rotational motion of earth's atmosphere, and the gravitational force is not strong enough to bind the ball to the certain point on the earth during it's entire vertical flight (especially during the first half of it's vertical flight).

Because of everything i said above, you are forced to cling to the clasical interpretation of inertia and use it as such in order to explain away alleged 4,6 miles impossibly long lateral motion of the ball.

But, as we all know, you can't apply law of inertia within earth's atmosphere because of air resistence which would obstruct the ball (by slowing it down during 28 seconds long vertical flight) to return anywhere close to the starting point (in the vicinity of the cannon from which mouth it was fired vertically in the air at the beginning of Rowbotham's experiment).


Try this: Get the cannon on a vehicle, repeat experiment while the vehicle is moving.
Next Thread: "Moving car is stationary!"
Oh wait, you don't have to!



That cart is not stationary at all. Just as earth isn't.

Shoot it 20 m in the air (instead of 20 cm) and then see what is going to happen!!!
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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CptObvious

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2017, 03:54:05 AM »
Shoot it 20 m in the air (instead of 20 cm) and then see what is going to happen!!!

Why don't you try it? Then you'll see what is going to happen.
Here is the earth with the moon, just for you:
O.

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cikljamas

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2017, 04:12:21 AM »
Shoot it 20 m in the air (instead of 20 cm) and then see what is going to happen!!!

Why don't you try it? Then you'll see what is going to happen.

I don't have to, because i've already seen what had happened in this experiment :



It is more than obvious why this HC fraud needed to use a funnel for his experiment in order to sell to his gullible public that old HC trick (myth of inertia)... Pay close attention to this detail : at which side of a funnel the ball falls at the end of his experiment???...

IN THIS PICTURE YOU CAN SEE WHAT HAPPENED :
https://v65i.imgup.net/theballx102c.jpg
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 04:25:52 AM by cikljamas »
"I can't breathe" George Floyd RIP

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CptObvious

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Re: IF THE EARTH IS AT REST, CAN SHE STILL BE ROUND?
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2017, 04:28:49 AM »
Shoot it 20 m in the air (instead of 20 cm) and then see what is going to happen!!!

Why don't you try it? Then you'll see what is going to happen.

I don't have to, because i've already seen what had happened in this experiment [...]

Alright. Repeat experiment in a vacuum.
Here is the earth with the moon, just for you:
O.