Why do people believe it is illegal for average people to travel to Antarctica?

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People,

I am speaking from a U.S. standpoint.  It is NOT illegal for you to visit Antarctica.  I read everywhere on this forum that some think (mostly from flat earthers) that it is illegal.  IT IS NOT!!!  I cannot express this enough.  IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to travel to Antarctica.  No government police will stop you.  No 'men in black' will detain you.  If you are a U.S. citizen, you will need a passport to re-enter, but it is NOT illegal. 

I can't say about other countries though.  I am sure Fat Boy Kim may have a problem with somebody leaving North Korea.

Antarctica is a strange place. The Antarctic Treaty System went into force in 1961 and basically encourages “sharing” which thereby stops countries developing on the continent.  This means you are free to adventure. A common thing to do is to sail to Ushuaia at the bottom of Argentina, then seek advice from boats with similar plans.  There are a couple of boats that specialise in this area. French adventurers in particular like this place. They have boats whose hulls are strengthened, insulated and with rigging that can take 70 knot blasts on a regular basis.

So, for all you flat earthers using that as an excuse as to why you can't go an prove the earth is flat, why you can't show that "ice wall",... it isn't an excuse anymore.

Just dress warm and take off.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 06:38:14 AM by pesadilla143 »

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Bullwinkle

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Have you been there?

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Arealhumanbeing

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You have to apply to one of the Antarctic Treaty countries for a permit and you have to meet stringent environmental concerns, a search and rescue plan and you have to have insurance with a very high level of liability. If you don’t you can be prosecuted."


Read more at http://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/antarctic-deaths-enormous-ramifications-6330#kimX5PmqsjSbIemR.99

You have to apply to one of the Antarctic Treaty countries for a permit and you have to meet stringent environmental concerns, a search and rescue plan and you have to have insurance with a very high level of liability. If you don’t you can be prosecuted."

Read more at http://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/antarctic-deaths-enormous-ramifications-6330#kimX5PmqsjSbIemR.99

So it's not illegal to go there if you get a permit first. The linked article explains why permits, and proof of a way to cover rescue (or recovery) costs, are needed.

It also says...

"Unlike the Antarctic Peninsula, which sees between 30 and 40 visiting yachts each season, the Ross Sea offers very little shelter or protection and few places to get securely tied in."

... so, apparently, permits can be obtained.

That's settled. Thanks for the link, Arhb.

[Highlighted text in original quote resized for readability.]

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Arealhumanbeing

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Just apply for the permit and your all set for an antarctic adventure, right?

Wrong!

Youll still need to meet the "environmental" requirements, have a private search and rescue team ready to radio, and of course ridiculously high insurance.

Didnt you read the text I quoted?

In other words, if you plan on doing any kind of testing, exploration, or anything that might further prove the Earth is flat, you wont ever be allowed there. Period.

People,

I am speaking from a U.S. standpoint.  It is NOT illegal for you to visit Antarctica.  I read everywhere on this forum that some think (mostly from flat earthers) that it is illegal.  IT IS NOT!!!  I cannot express this enough.  IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to travel to Antarctica.  No government police will stop you.  No 'men in black' will detain you.  If you are a U.S. citizen, you will need a passport to re-enter, but it is NOT illegal. 

I can't say about other countries though.  I am sure Fat Boy Kim may have a problem with somebody leaving North Korea.

Antarctica is a strange place. The Antarctic Treaty System went into force in 1961 and basically encourages “sharing” which thereby stops countries developing on the continent.  This means you are free to adventure. A common thing to do is to sail to Ushuaia at the bottom of Argentina, then seek advice from boats with similar plans.  There are a couple of boats that specialise in this area. French adventurers in particular like this place. They have boats whose hulls are strengthened, insulated and with rigging that can take 70 knot blasts on a regular basis.

So, for all you flat earthers using that as an excuse as to why you can't go an prove the earth is flat, why you can't show that "ice wall",... it isn't an excuse anymore.

Just dress warm and take off.

The reason why the FEers maintain this false belief in regard to Antartica is that it's all part of their conspiracy. They need Antartic to not be the island that it is, but rather a ring of rock and ice surrounding the continents and holding the seas in. they had to invent this complex story that Antartica is somehow off limits and guarded by the US military to keep the secret of the flat earth from the population at large! Its a way for them to deflect any claims regarding the true nature of Antartica, that it's an island covered in Kilometers of ice and inhabited mostly by scientists........but that doesn't suit them, hence the conspiracy. It's the same as their vilification of NASA, its al about distorting the truth and claiming any thing that points to the spherical nature of the earth being either government lies or a hoax.
Why they do this heaven only knows, madness, paranoia, or just for fun, your guess is as good as mine. It's obvious to anyone the earth is a sphere, obvious to anyone apart from the FE community!

Just apply for the permit and your all set for an antarctic adventure, right?

Wrong!

Youll still need to meet the "environmental" requirements, have a private search and rescue team ready to radio, and of course ridiculously high insurance.

Didnt you read the text I quoted?

In other words, if you plan on doing any kind of testing, exploration, or anything that might further prove the Earth is flat, you wont ever be allowed there. Period.

...see what I mean......!

Just apply for the permit and your all set for an antarctic adventure, right?

Wrong!

Youll still need to meet the "environmental" requirements, have a private search and rescue team ready to radio, and of course ridiculously high insurance.

Didnt you read the text I quoted?

In other words, if you plan on doing any kind of testing, exploration, or anything that might further prove the Earth is flat, you wont ever be allowed there. Period.

You are truly a piece of work.  I think it is hilarious that some people actually believe, in the 21st century, that the earth is flat.  With all the evidence (I know, conspiracy)... you still believe the earth is flat because "my eyes don't lie".

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markjo

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Just apply for the permit and your all set for an antarctic adventure, right?

Wrong!

Youll still need to meet the "environmental" requirements, have a private search and rescue team ready to radio, and of course ridiculously high insurance.
So they make you take prudent precautions before going into a very unpredictable, and potentially very hostile environment.  I don't see why that's the least bit surprising.

Didnt you read the text I quoted?

In other words, if you plan on doing any kind of testing, exploration, or anything that might further prove the Earth is flat, you wont ever be allowed there. Period.
Unless you take the required safety precautions, of course.  Or are you trying to say that those requirements are impossible to satisfy?  There are a number of adventure tourism companies that don't seem to have problem satisfying them.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Just apply for the permit and your all set for an antarctic adventure, right?

Wrong!

Youll still need to meet the "environmental" requirements, have a private search and rescue team ready to radio, and of course ridiculously high insurance.

So agree to comply with the environmental requirements (and do it), arrange for someone to take your call if you get in trouble, and buy insurance to pay for the rescue if needed. It may not be free, or even cheap, but none of this is impossible to arrange.

All of these seem like reasonable conditions. Why should you be allowed to just go and trash the place? Rescues are costly, can be dangerous and hard on the environment, and leaving your corpse there would be the kind of pollution they're trying to avoid.

Quote
Didnt you read the text I quoted?

Yes. It's what we're discussing.

Quote
In other words, if you plan on doing any kind of testing, exploration, or anything that might further prove the Earth is flat, you wont ever be allowed there. Period.

I don't recall that being in the text you quoted. Can you point that out?

If you're worried about being excluded for trying to find evidence that the earth is flat, then don't tell them that's why you're going. This might be prudent, anyway, because they could reasonably consider someone who entertained the notion that the earth was flat as being mentally incompetent and unable to care for himself based on the simple fact that you can't comprehend the obvious.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Arealhumanbeing

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they had to invent this complex story that Antartica is somehow off limits and guarded by the US military to keep the secret of the flat earth from the population at large!

Fact: The US military has a constant presence in antarctica.

Fact: It is extremely difficult to set foot anywhere in antarctica without reprucussion.

Fact: There is an "inaccessable" zone in antarctica that no one may enter, permitted or not.

I dont make up this stuff Lonegranger.
Earth is flat.

they had to invent this complex story that Antartica is somehow off limits and guarded by the US military to keep the secret of the flat earth from the population at large!

Fact: The US military has a constant presence in antarctica.

At McMurdo Station and at the South Pole. Anywhere else?

If you don't think the South Pole even exists, that leaves only McMurdo.

Quote
Fact: It is extremely difficult to set foot anywhere in antarctica without reprucussion.

It is extremely difficult to set foot anywhere in Antarctica. Period. It's hard to get to and hard to stay in because of where it is and what it's like, even if you get the permissions that you kindly explained how to get.

Quote
Fact: There is an "inaccessable" zone in antarctica that no one may enter, permitted or not.

Where?

Quote
I dont make up this stuff Lonegranger.

So? If someone else tells you something, does that make it meaningful? Or even correct? No.

Quote
Earth is flat.

Did you make that up, or did someone tell you that, too? Do you have any evidence that suggests it's correct? If not, why do you believe it? Can you explain the apparent motion of the sun when viewed from different places on a flat earth yet? Getting that down would be a great start!
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Arealhumanbeing

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At McMurdo Station and at the South Pole. Anywhere else?

If you don't think the South Pole even exists, that leaves only McMurdo.

You speak as is if you know everything, when all you do is twist the truth, you shill.

Quote
Much like the large hubs such as Kandahar Airfield in Afghanistan, McMurdo Station serves at the main operating base in Antarctica. Just as Afghanistan is dotted with much smaller forward operating bases, Antarctica has its own remote outposts.

If it weren’t for the penguin colony and the snow-covered volcano next door, you’d probably never know the difference.

(https://www.stripes.com/news/antarctica-posts-like-afghan-fobs-but-without-enemy-attacks-1.167809#.WQfXed9lDqD)



Antarctica has a thriving military agenda.


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Shifter

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A Future Is Not Given To You. It Is Something You Must Take For Yourself

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Arealhumanbeing

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Shifter

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Oh damn don't I feel the burn of a 15 year old punk right now!  lol

Such a clever answer, how do I respond to such mastery of a keyboard

A Future Is Not Given To You. It Is Something You Must Take For Yourself

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rabinoz

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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Antarctica has a thriving military agenda.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And where are these?

Geographic South Pole
     
An aerial view of the Amundsen–Scott Station
in January 2005. The older domed station is visible
on the right-hand side of this photo.
     
The main entrance to the former geodesic dome ramped down from the surface level.

This base is right at the South Pole.

A map of Antarctica showing the location of the Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station (circled)

What actual evidence have you that these places are not real? Yes, nothing more than your own imagination.
But, only someone  8) blinded by his own unfounded beliefs  8) would claim that these are faked.
Though I certainly would believe that YOU could confuse the for the Amundsen–Scott Station with Afghanistan!

Dream on, Mr Arealhumanbeing.

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markjo

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Military personnel, who live in two-person barracks rooms, make up only about 10 percent of the population at McMurdo, yet they play a vital role in the Antarctic Research program, flying and maintaining the aircraft that bring personnel, supplies and equipment to the base and ferrying them to camps all over the continent.
Wow.  That sounds so sinister. ::)
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

At McMurdo Station and at the South Pole. Anywhere else?

If you don't think the South Pole even exists, that leaves only McMurdo.

You speak as is if you know everything, when all you do is twist the truth, you shill.

The article you cite agrees with what I said. Are you trying to twist the truth, or are you just confused?

Quote
Quote
Much like the large hubs such as Kandahar Airfield in Afghanistan, McMurdo Station serves at the main operating base in Antarctica. Just as Afghanistan is dotted with much smaller forward operating bases, Antarctica has its own remote outposts.

Remote outposts operated by scientists and other civilians. I worked at one for a couple of months, decades ago.

Quote
Quote
If it weren’t for the penguin colony and the snow-covered volcano next door, you’d probably never know the difference.

(https://www.stripes.com/news/antarctica-posts-like-afghan-fobs-but-without-enemy-attacks-1.167809#.WQfXed9lDqD)

That article is about McMurdo Station.

Quote
Antarctica has a thriving military agenda.

[Resized for legibility.]

From the linked article:

"Military personnel, who live in two-person barracks rooms, make up only about 10 percent of the population at McMurdo, yet they play a vital role in the Antarctic Research program, flying and maintaining the aircraft that bring personnel, supplies and equipment to the base and ferrying them to camps all over the continent."

"The rock stars of this icy inhabitant [continent?] are the scientists doing the research."

That's a threatening agenda all right.  ::)

They never mention Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station. There may be no military personnel there at all, so I might have been wrong about that. It wouldn't surprise me, but I'm not sure.

See if you can find another article that answers that question.

Remember, your assertion was

Fact: The US military has a constant presence in antarctica.

What you said might be true, in a technical sense. All you've shown is there is a small contingent of National Guard transportation folks at McMurdo in a support role for research during the austral summer. The article is silent whether or not they're present year round (as in "constant"). But since their job is "flying and maintaining the aircraft" and there are typically no flights (and no aircraft) during the winter, there may be no US military presence there at all for a good chunk of the year.

How about if I correct my earlier post to remove South Pole station from the list of two, and hedge on whether any US military personnel are in the remaining station, McMurdo, and, thus, Antarctica, "continuously" based on what the article you cite says?

Thanks for the link!

[Edit] Added correction to "inhabitant".
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 08:06:10 PM by Alpha2Omega »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Arealhumanbeing

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What actual evidence have you that these places are not real?
Actually I never claimed these places do not exist, just that they are not what we have been told.

Oohh ahh. A sign that says
"you are at the south pole"

DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY

I dont believe it.

Combine that with the extreme difficulty people have to go through to obtain permission to explore the region by themselves, and that those who have tried without recieving the "green light" mysteriously DIE.

And I start to rather doubt whether or not the government is there for such innocent reasons...

Plane rides arent cheap. These people are flying back and forth all over this federally owned continent and we the US citizens pay for it. They have been doing it for YEARS - about 60 now.

There is something going on there that is not being fully disclosed.


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rabinoz

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What actual evidence have you that these places are not real?
Actually I never claimed these places do not exist, just that they are not what we have been told.
Oohh ahh. A sign that says "you are at the south pole"
DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY
I dont believe it.
You know something? Arealhumanbeing not believing something means nothing in the real world.

Quote from: Arealhumanbeing
Combine that with the extreme difficulty people have to go through to obtain permission to explore the region by themselves, and that those who have tried without recieving the "green light" mysteriously DIE.
I keep asking you for evidence. Where is there evidence of this
"extreme difficulty people have to go through to obtain permission to explore the region by themselves"?
On the status os Antarctica, read Cool Antarctica, Conservation in Antarctica - Protecting the Environment

Quote from: Arealhumanbeing
And I start to rather doubt whether or not the government is there for such innocent reasons...
;) You start to doubt!  ;) So what, you doubt everything else - at least you are a consistent winger!

Quote from: Arealhumanbeing
Plane rides arent cheap. These people are flying back and forth all over this federally owned continent and we the US citizens pay for it. They have been doing it for YEARS - about 60 now.
No, "Plane rides aren't cheap", but it is not a "federally owned continent". Antarctica is owned by no country.
Quote
Seven nations have made claims in Antarctica, but about 30 of the countries that have signed the Antarctic Treaty send personnel to research stations on the Antarctic continent and the Antarctic Peninsula. All told, there are as many as 45 year-round stations and 30 summer stations (field stations).
Go and read Did you know that many countries have research stations in Antarctica? and learn a bit, instead of dragging it out of your own paranoid imagination.

So, that's it, you are still complaining about "we the US citizens pay for it". The "it" here being a part of the research done in Antarctica.
Quote from: Arealhumanbeing
There is something going on there that is not being fully disclosed.
So you claim, though as always with you, with no real evidence, just from you own conspiracy fuelled imagination.

What actual evidence have you that these places are not real?
Actually I never claimed these places do not exist, just that they are not what we have been told.

Oohh ahh. A sign that says
"you are at the south pole"

DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY

I dont believe it.

So what? You claim to not believe other things that are obviously true.

Quote
Combine that with the extreme difficulty people have to go through to obtain permission to explore the region by themselves, and that those who have tried without recieving the "green light" mysteriously DIE.

Citation, please.

Don't forget, Antarctica is a very hostile environment. There are many natural ways to die there.

Quote
And I start to rather doubt whether or not the government is there for such innocent reasons...
Quote

So what? You claim to doubt other things that are obviously true.

Plane rides arent cheap. These people are flying back and forth all over this federally owned continent and we the US citizens pay for it. They have been doing it for YEARS - about 60 now.

Can you provide some evidence for the "federally owned" part? The US doesn't own any land in Antarctica. Unlike many of the Antarctic Treaty signatory countries, they don't even claim ownership there.

I was on some of those flights. They certainly weren't cheap; fueling, maintaining, and operating equipment in hostile, remote places like that is even more expensive than usual.

If you're a US citizen, complain about the cost to your senator, congresscritter, or president if you want. It's your right, and they're used to hearing from cranks. In fact, your complaint may be a welcome break from the usual for some aide, especially if you try to explain your beliefs. If you're not from the US, then you'll need to find out who to complain to on your own.

Quote
There is something going on there that is not being fully disclosed.

You also claim to believe other things that are obviously false.

If you actually come up with something, I'm sure we'll hear all about it!
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

they had to invent this complex story that Antartica is somehow off limits and guarded by the US military to keep the secret of the flat earth from the population at large!

Fact: The US military has a constant presence in antarctica.

Fact: It is extremely difficult to set foot anywhere in antarctica without reprucussion.

Fact: There is an "inaccessable" zone in antarctica that no one may enter, permitted or not.

I dont make up this stuff Lonegranger.
Earth is flat.

But I'm afraid, all of what you say is made up. I think all the claims you make on this forum is not to try and convince us, but rather to try and convince your own crumbling and shaky belief. The only sources you can rely on to bolster your beliefs are other flat earthers or conspiracy theorists who like yourself live in a make believe word. Many of you do this as a flat earth is seen as some keystone in your religion, and without its support, everything would come crashing down. I'm not going to provide you with any of the following;
World maps.
Reports from all the scientific organisations who have a year round Antartic presence.
Satellite images and weather maps
Historical reports dating back to its first discovery long before the birth of the USA as you know it.
These can all be found on the web.
Your belief is a hollow construct devoid of any truth, all you can do is keep repeating it to yourself. Why don't you instead open your eyes and go find out the real truth? Or are you too scared about what you might find out?

What actual evidence have you that these places are not real?
Actually I never claimed these places do not exist, just that they are not what we have been told.

Oohh ahh. A sign that says
"you are at the south pole"

DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY

I dont believe it.

Combine that with the extreme difficulty people have to go through to obtain permission to explore the region by themselves, and that those who have tried without recieving the "green light" mysteriously DIE.

And I start to rather doubt whether or not the government is there for such innocent reasons...

Plane rides arent cheap. These people are flying back and forth all over this federally owned continent and we the US citizens pay for it. They have been doing it for YEARS - about 60 now.

There is something going on there that is not being fully disclosed.

And who told you what you know? You claim to be a free thinker, why don't you try it....think that is about the source of your beliefs, as you are the one being duped and lied to.

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Arealhumanbeing

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Why don't you instead open your eyes and go find out the real truth? Or are you too scared about what you might find out?

Ide like to, shillymclonegrangerson, but ide be shot for going to antarctica without a permit.

You know something? Arealhumanbeing not believing something means nothing in the real world.

Oh? So not believing in one president or the other and voting accordingly means nothing?

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onebigmonkey

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You have to apply to one of the Antarctic Treaty countries for a permit and you have to meet stringent environmental concerns, a search and rescue plan and you have to have insurance with a very high level of liability. If you don’t you can be prosecuted."


Read more at http://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/elaine-bunting/antarctic-deaths-enormous-ramifications-6330#kimX5PmqsjSbIemR.99

So you can go there by boat then without needing anyone to escort you. OK. Thanks for making that clear.

Oh, and you do know that there are other ways to get there?
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

Why don't you instead open your eyes and go find out the real truth? Or are you too scared about what you might find out?

Ide like to, shillymclonegrangerson, but ide be shot for going to antarctica without a permit.

You know something? Arealhumanbeing not believing something means nothing in the real world.

Oh? So not believing in one president or the other and voting accordingly means nothing?


In your dream you might possibly get shot, but in reality defiantly not.

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JerkFace

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they had to invent this complex story that Antartica is somehow off limits and guarded by the US military to keep the secret of the flat earth from the population at large!

Fact: The US military has a constant presence in antarctica.

Fact: It is extremely difficult to set foot anywhere in antarctica without reprucussion.

Fact: There is an "inaccessable" zone in antarctica that no one may enter, permitted or not.

I dont make up this stuff Lonegranger.
Earth is flat.

I think you do actually make stuff, up,  if not why don't you cite some evidence for an inaccessable" zone in antarctica

There have been unauthorized flights to the South Pole,   they don't like it much,  but they can't stop it.  In one instance they refused to sell him the fuel to return home.

Quote
An Australian pilot stranded in the Antarctic says it makes no sense for New Zealand and United States authorities to refuse to sell him fuel to fly home.

Adelaide's Jon Johanson today also rejected suggestions he had not properly prepared for his history-making solo flight over the South Pole, the first in a home-built, single-engine aircraft.

Johanson was forced to land his aircraft at the US-NZ McMurdo-Scott base after high winds prevented the adventurer from reaching Argentina.

He now needs about 400 litres of fuel to fly home.

But both the US and New Zealand have refused to supply the fuel as part of a policy to discourage visitors to the base and have offered to fly him back to NZ and then ship his plane home later at his own expense.

New Zealand authorities accuse the pilot of being irresponsible and ill-prepared.

But Johanson said it made no sense to deny him the fuel he needed to leave.

"I'm a little disappointed that it's got to where it is," he told ABC radio today.

"To be honest it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. For the sake of 400 litres of fuel I can be out and gone."

Johanson said in planning his flight the weather forecasts had not predicted strong winds over the centre of Antarctica which robbed him of the fuel he needed to complete his journey.

But he denied any suggestions he had not prepared properly and said he had spent considerable time talking with Australia's leading Antarctic weather forecaster.

"Any suggestion this was a flight on a whim is far from accurate," he said.

"It can happen to any flight anywhere in the world that things just don't work out as forecast.

"Weather can't be an exacting science, you can't blame the weather men.

"I guess technically we should have made the decision earlier (to abandon the flight) and that was where the mistake was made."

But Antarctica New Zealand said no-one knew Johanson was coming and he had done nothing about emergency or refuelling plans.

Spokeswoman Shelly Peebles said American and New Zealand authorities were being painted in a bad light but Johanson had taken a very irresponsible approach.

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with limited fuel," she said.

"He made his plans by himself but we are offering him a way home from a predicament he could have avoided."

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer has intervened on Johanson's behalf and has asked the United States and New Zealand to sell him the necessary fuel.

"There's some resistance on the part of the New Zealanders and Americans to do that because they're trying to discourage adventurers from travelling to and over Antarctica," Mr Downer said.

"I've said to the New Zealand High Commissioner that I'd really appreciate it if on this occasion they were prepared to sell the fuel to Jon Johanson, so she's gone back to Wellington and we'll wait to hear what happens."


http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/11/1071086173234.html

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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RocksEverywhere

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In other words, if you plan on doing any kind of testing, exploration, or anything that might further prove the Earth is flat, you wont ever be allowed there. Period.
Then just tell them you're doing some kind of glaciological survey or whatever.
AMA: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=68045.0

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's not real.

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disputeone

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Antarctica is fascinating tho isn't it.
BOTD member

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160