The cold war and the moon

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The cold war and the moon
« on: April 13, 2017, 04:51:13 PM »
So it's fair to assume that all Flat Earthers also believe that the moon landings were faked.

So during the cold war when two powerful countries were at eachothers throats minutes away from nuclear war, and the US manages to land on the moon.

Surely if this was a conspiracy and the Russians knew it, they would be the first to point it out causing a massive propaganda blow to the US causing average citizens to suddenly question their government. This would be massively advantageous for the Russians, so why didn't they do it.

Equally when Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space, the Americans knowing this to be faked would surely point this out for the same reasons above, so why didn't they?

Both countries could have caused outrage and sewn chaos across the government of the other country massively destabilising it removing the threat of them entirely, so why did neither country expose the fraud if it existed?
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 05:02:18 PM »
Well the cold war was just a hoax too!

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Bullwinkle

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Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 09:16:39 PM »
Now we have Global Warming. Everything always works out.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 12:17:42 AM »
Well the cold war was just a hoax too!

Yup, the world is just a stage,,, built to entertain us.   Buy why  ???

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 12:22:15 AM »
Congratulations guys, all have you have done is redirected my post with baseless claims, wish you could hear yourselves.

So we're the bloody conflicts in Chile, Africa,  Afghanistan and Vietnam staged aswell, or were they part of something bigger like I dunno, a cold war
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 04:30:20 AM »
So it's fair to assume that all Flat Earthers also believe that the moon landings were faked.

So during the cold war when two powerful countries were at eachothers throats minutes away from nuclear war, and the US manages to land on the moon.

Surely if this was a conspiracy and the Russians knew it, they would be the first to point it out causing a massive propaganda blow to the US causing average citizens to suddenly question their government. This would be massively advantageous for the Russians, so why didn't they do it.

Equally when Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space, the Americans knowing this to be faked would surely point this out for the same reasons above, so why didn't they?

Both countries could have caused outrage and sewn chaos across the government of the other country massively destabilising it removing the threat of them entirely, so why did neither country expose the fraud if it existed?

I'm not saying the following is true, but it remains a possibility!
If Nasa faked moon-landings, that could be because they have found out that the Russians themselves have faked their space missions, because they couldn't cross a certain level of the atmosphere, and used their magic against them!

Why would they expose the Russians if they can use that as an advantage to them - the Russians went into space, they say > we land on the Moon, and let them prove us wrong!

Just a possibility, if space was a hoax!
God—the knower—is non-dimensional.
God's thinking is two-dimensional.
God's creative actions are three-dimensional.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 04:38:00 AM »
Yeah but the destabilisation from proving the Russians wrong would be far better for Americas agenda than beating them to the moon.

Americas main aim was to stop the flow of communism, the Soviet union was corrupt and quite a lot of the citizens were unhappy, so logically if America proves the soviets to be lying to their citizens it would cause mass opposition to the communist party possibly resulting in a revolution, which the US could support since its what they want, so if they could prove it they would have.
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 10:00:55 AM »
Well the cold war was just a hoax too!
My answer was predicting what the FE would say. And I was right.
It doesn't reflect reality though.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 10:13:34 AM »
Well the cold war was just a hoax too!
My answer was predicting what the FE would say. And I was right.
It doesn't reflect reality though.
Oh right ahaha, I'll let you off, you might have given them the ideals though.
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

*

sandokhan

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Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 10:23:03 AM »
After 1945, Eastern Europe was practically abandoned to the Soviets: in return, one of the ways in which they agreed to cooperate was in perpetrating the nuclear weapons hoax.

Few historians know that in the summer of 1953, the Soviets were prepared to invade both Europe and Alaska, the very reason why the secret societies of the West sought to bring a change at the top in the former USSR in early 1953.

A transition period ensued (1953 - 1976) during which both sides cooperated closely with each other and agreed not to disclose that there was no outer space, that each and all officially declared space missions were to be faked.

At the same time the USSR embarked on an ambitious scalar weapons program, fully applying the Biefeld-Brown effect to flying objects/vehicles.

By the time the New Kremlin took over the reigns of power in Russia in 1976, it was too late to disclose that the space program was a total forgery, they played along with the other space agencies, while at the same time taking the research into scalar weaponry to unprecedented heights, obtaining results which were way beyond anything that was currently known in the West on the same subject.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 10:27:05 AM »
After 1945, Eastern Europe was practically abandoned to the Soviets: in return, one of the ways in which they agreed to cooperate was in perpetrating the nuclear weapons hoax.

Few historians know that in the summer of 1953, the Soviets were prepared to invade both Europe and Alaska, the very reason why the secret societies of the West sought to bring a change at the top in the former USSR in early 1953.

A transition period ensued (1953 - 1976) during which both sides cooperated closely with each other and agreed not to disclose that there was no outer space, that each and all officially declared space missions were to be faked.

At the same time the USSR embarked on an ambitious scalar weapons program, fully applying the Biefeld-Brown effect to flying objects/vehicles.

By the time the New Kremlin took over the reigns of power in Russia in 1976, it was too late to disclose that the space program was a total forgery, they played along with the other space agencies, while at the same time taking the research into scalar weaponry to unprecedented heights, obtaining results which were way beyond anything that was currently known in the West on the same subject.
Ok so 1948 Berlin blockade is definitely abandoned by 1945, oh and that's a nice story, but that's all it is, a story. Few historians know it because few historians delve into Flat Earth alternative history but I appreciate you took the time to conjure that up
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 11:06:09 AM »
Fascinating story, sandokhan! Did you make that up yourself, or are you parroting someone else?

If that's yours, have you considered a career as a writer of alternative history novels based on science fiction? You might have some talent, and you can stir in enough obscure technical terms and obsolete hypotheses to make a fun read. This is a popular genre of fiction, so there could be some serious money in it for a good author.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2017, 11:09:41 AM »
Fascinating story, sandokhan! Did you make that up yourself, or are you parroting someone else?

If that's yours, have you considered a career as a writer of alternative history novels based on science fiction? You might have some talent, and you can stir in enough obscure technical terms and obsolete hypotheses to make a fun read. This is a popular genre of fiction, so there could be some serious money in it for a good author.
My thoughts exactly
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

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sandokhan

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Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2017, 11:36:23 AM »
On May 22, 1945, the former chief of the Fremde Heere Ost German military intelligence surrendered to the Allies: "I have information to give of the highest importance to your government."

Up until 1948, Reinhard Gehlen desperately tried to convince the OSS that Stalin was planning to doublecross the West, few people would even listen to him.

With the invasion of South Korea, however, his new masters finally understood the horror of the entire situation: Stalin was preparing to unleash the Red Army on western Europe and also to attack Alaska and western Canada (with the help of the Chinese).

Both London and the Vatican got their resources together in order to find a solution: finally culminating in the mysterious events surrounding the change of power at the top in late February 1953 in the former USSR.

How did Stalin manage to survive for 30 years?

http://www.pravdareport.com/science/mysteries/23-06-2011/118290-joseph_stalin-0/

Somehow, the top clairvoyants of the West were able to modify the information gathered by Stalin's astral travel abilities, and thus lull him into believing that everything was safe during late 1952 and early 1953 in the former USSR from the point of view of an assassination attempt.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2017, 12:08:59 PM »
Well you have taken some historic facts and answered a very large question with an interpretation that fits your ideas with literally zero evidence, nice one perfect for writing, hop to it
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2017, 01:41:28 PM »
The story was more entertaining before you brought the clairvoyants and astral travel into it. It's too soon to jump the shark; I'd suggest dropping that particular plot line, at least this early in. You should be able to come up with some at least marginally plausible intrigue that moves the story where you want it to go. Save the complete woo for the case where you really write yourself into a corner, but, if you're aiming to create historical fiction and not fantasy, your potential readers will probably be disappointed if you have to resort to such to save the story.

Still, the short posts and what appears to be an original narrative are a pleasure to read and think about compared to what you had been doing. Keep it up! You could become good at this!
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2017, 03:33:42 PM »
The story was more entertaining before you brought the clairvoyants and astral travel into it. It's too soon to jump the shark; I'd suggest dropping that particular plot line, at least this early in. You should be able to come up with some at least marginally plausible intrigue that moves the story where you want it to go. Save the complete woo for the case where you really write yourself into a corner, but, if you're aiming to create historical fiction and not fantasy, your potential readers will probably be disappointed if you have to resort to such to save the story.

Still, the short posts and what appears to be an original narrative are a pleasure to read and think about compared to what you had been doing. Keep it up! You could become good at this!
Alpha, I'm starting to think you should have written 'The Man in the High Castle' not Philip K Dick
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2017, 05:39:10 PM »
I'm not saying the following is true, but it remains a possibility!
If Nasa faked moon-landings, that could be because they have found out that the Russians themselves have faked their space missions, because they couldn't cross a certain level of the atmosphere, and used their magic against them!

Why would they expose the Russians if they can use that as an advantage to them - the Russians went into space, they say > we land on the Moon, and let them prove us wrong!

Just a possibility, if space was a hoax!
Because if the Russians faked it, exposing them would be a far greater propaganda blow.
Also, if any word got out about them planning on going to the moon, the Russians could easily fake it first dealing an even greater blow to the US.

Regardless, the Russians would be able to expose the moon landings as fake without exposing all of space travel as fake.

The only idea that makes sense is that the entire cold war was a hoax.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2017, 05:40:46 PM »
Sandy, no historian knows it. No one knows it.

Do you know why?
Because it is a load of shit.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2017, 01:09:15 AM »
The easiest way is to ask any survivors from Afghanistan, chilie, Cuba, Vietnam or Korea and ask them if the cold war felt like a hoax to them.
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2017, 01:18:36 AM »
The easiest way is to ask any survivors from Afghanistan, chilie, Cuba, Vietnam or Korea and ask them if the cold war felt like a hoax to them.

The question then becomes who is in on the hoax.
Remember, if the government is willing to hoax people and manipulate them, why not be willing to sacrifice a bunch of soldiers?

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2017, 01:41:09 AM »
But if America were going to fake Vietnam, they wouldn't let themselves be humiliated by farmers would they, they would spend the whole time being all merica gunning down VC then winning
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2017, 04:22:53 AM »
But if America were going to fake Vietnam, they wouldn't let themselves be humiliated by farmers would they, they would spend the whole time being all merica gunning down VC then winning
Operate under the assumption that the entire cold war was a hoax and the world governments were in on it together.
Perhaps the farmers were an unplanned problem, perhaps that was what the resolution was meant to be, they couldn't just have the US win all the time.

Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2017, 04:56:43 AM »
But if America were going to fake Vietnam, they wouldn't let themselves be humiliated by farmers would they, they would spend the whole time being all merica gunning down VC then winning
Operate under the assumption that the entire cold war was a hoax and the world governments were in on it together.
Perhaps the farmers were an unplanned problem, perhaps that was what the resolution was meant to be, they couldn't just have the US win all the time.
You know what you are right, I can't believe the wool has been pulled over my eyes for so long, the Earth is flat history proves this, why else would Hitler invade Poland first, because on a spherical earth France would have been closer so he should have gone there but he didn't, so there we have it.
"Religion is the opium of the people"
Karl Marx

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

*

disputeone

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Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2017, 10:12:35 PM »
So during the cold war when two powerful countries were at eachothers throats minutes away from nuclear war, and the US manages to land on the moon. and Russia agree to sign the Antarctic treaty.

Really makes you think.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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sandokhan

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Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2017, 11:18:29 PM »
why else would Hitler invade Poland first

The Wehrmacht was tricked/conned into attacking Poland in 1939 by the Soviets.

They totally forgot or had no knowledge of what Stalin was planning as early as 1936:

History states [wrote Stalin] that when one country wants to go to war with another, even one which is not a neighbour, then it begins to seek frontiers across which it would be able to reach the frontiers of the countries it wishes to attack. (Pravda, 5 March 1936)

It was a catastrophic error, the biggest possible, to accept the partition of Poland, as this event brought the red army much closer to Germany's borders.

In 1941, Stalin attacked Germany, a fact revealed in the classic work, The Icebreaker.

V. Suvorov - Icebreaker

Suvorov challenges the widely-accepted view that Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime attacked an unsuspecting USSR on June 22, 1941 with a much superior and better prepared force. Instead, Suvorov argues that the Soviet Union was poised to invade Nazi-controlled territories in July 1941.

Stalin planned to attack Nazi Germany from the rear in July 1941, only a few weeks after the date on which the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union took place. According to Suvorov, the Red Army had been already redeployed from a defensive to an offensive position. As described in Suvorov's books, Stalin had made no major defensive preparations. On the contrary, the Stalin line fortifications through Belarus-Ukraine were dismantled, and the new Molotov line was all but finished by the time of Nazi invasion.


From the classic "Red Symphony" document (time of writing, January 1938)

G. - Exactly. Have you thought of the practical plan of realization?

R. - I had had more than enough time for that at the Lubianka. I considered. So look: if there were difficulties in finding mutually shared points between us and all else took its normal course, then the problems comes down to again trying to establish that in which there is similarity between Hitler and Stalin.

G. - Yes, but admit that all this is problematical.

R. - But not insoluble, as you think. In reality problems are insoluble only when they include dialectical subjective contradictions; and even in that case we always consider possible and essential a synthesis, overcoming the "morally-impossible" of Christian metaphysicians.

G. - Again you begin to theorize.

R. - As the result of my intellecutal discipline - this is essential for me. People of a big culture prefer to approach the concrete through a generalization, and not the other way round. With Hitler and with Stalin one can find common ground, as, being very different people, they have the same roots; if Hitler is sentimental to a pathological degree, but Stalin is normal, yet both of them are egoists: neither one of them is an idealist, and for that reason both of them are bonapartists, i.e. classical Imperialists. And if just that is the position, then it is already not difficult to find common ground betveen them. Why not, if it proved possible between one Tsarina and one Prussian King ...

G. - Rakovsky, you are incorrigible ...

R. - You do not guess? If Poland was the point of union between Catherine and Frederick - the Tsarina of Russia and the King of Germany at that time, then why cannot Poland serve as a reason for the finding of common ground between Hitler and Stalin? In Poland the persons of Hitler and Stalin can coincide. and also the historical Tsarist Bolshevik and Nazi lines. Our line, "Their' line - also, as Poland is a Christian State and, what makes the matter even more complex, a Catholic one.

G. - And what follows from the fact of such a treble coincidence?

R. - If there is common ground then there is a possibility of agreement.

G. - Between Hitler and Stalin? ... Absurd! Impossible.

R. - In politics there are neither absurdities, nor the impossible.

G. - Let us imagine, as an hypothesis: Hitler and Stalin advance on Poland.

R. - Permit me to interrupt you; an attack can be called forth only by the following alternative: war or peace. You must admit it.

G. - Well, and so what?

R. - Do you consider that England and France, with their worse
armies and aviation, in comparison with Hitler's, can attack the united Hitler and Stalin?

G. - Yes, that seems to me to be very difficult ... unless America ...

R. - Let us leave the United States aside for the moment. Will you agree with me that as the result of the attack of Hitler and Stalin on Poland there can be no European war?

G. - You argue logically; it would seem impossible.

R. - In that case an attack or war would be useless. It would not call forth the mutual destruction of the bourgeois States: the Hitlerist threat to the USSR would continue in being after the division of Poland since theoretically both Germany and the USSR would have been strengthened to the same extent. In practice Hitler to a greater extent since the USSR does not need more land and raw materials for its strengthening, but Hitler does need them.

G. - This is a correct view ..., but I can see no other solution.

R. - No, there is a solution.

G. - Which?

R. - That the democracies should attack and not attack the aggressor.

G. - What are you saying, what hallucination! Simultaneously to attack and not to attack ... That is something absolutely impossible.

R. - You think so? Calm down ... Are there not two aggressors? Did we not agree that there will be no advance just because there are two? Well ... What prevents the attack on one of them?

G. - What do you want to say by that?

R. - Simply that the democracies will declare war only on one aggressor, and that will be Hitler.

G. - Yes, but that is an unfounded hypothesis.

R. - An hypothesis, but having a foundation. Consider: each State which will have to fight with a coalition of enemy States has as its main strategical objective to destroy them separately one after another. This rule is so well known that proofs are superfluous. So, agree with me that there are no obstacles to the creation of such conditions. I think that the question that Stalin will not consider himself aggrieved in case of an attack on Hitler is already settled. Is that not so? In addition geography imposes this attitude, and for that reason strategy also. However stupid France and England may be in preparing to fight simultaneously against two countries, one of which wants to preserve its neutrality, while the other, even being alone, represents for them a serious opponent, from where and from which side could they carry out an attack on the USSR? They have not got a common border; unless they were to advance over the Himalayas ... Yes, there remains the air front, but with what forces and from where could they invade Russia? In comparison with Hitler they are weaker in the air. All the arguments I have mentioned are no secret and are well known. As you see, all is simplified to a considerable extent.

G.- Yes, your arguments seem to be logical in the case if the conflict will be limited to four countries; but there are not four, but more, and neutrality is not a simple matter in a war on the given scale.

R. - Undoubtedly, but the possible participation of many countries does not change the power relationships. Weigh this in your mind and you will see how the balance will continue, even if others or even all European States come in. In addition, and this is very important, not one of those States, which will enter the war at the side of England and France will be able to deprive them of leadership; as a result the reasons which will prevent their attack on the USSR will retain their significance.


Outwardly everything seemed equitable, a part of Poland for Hitler and a part for Stalin. However, just one week after the signing of the Pact, Stalin played his first dirty trick. Hitler began the war against Poland, while Stalin stated that his troops were not yet ready. He could have told Ribbentrop that before the Pact was signed, but he did not do so. Hitler began the war and found himself on his own. The result? He, and he alone, was branded the perpetrator of the Second World War.

In the end, however, Poland, for whose liberty the West had gone to war, ended up with none at all. On the contrary, she was handed over to Stalin, along with the whole of Eastern Europe, including a part of Germany. Even so, there are some people in the West who continue to believe that the West won the Second World War.

Other mistakes made were: the invasion of France, Yugoslavia, Greece.

The Wehrmacht should have prepared itself for the onslaught, WITHOUT going beyond Germany's borders.

What they brought upon themselves, upon the German people, is too horrifying to even mention, the unimaginable events perpetrated in Germany in 1945.

The Icebreaker is available in pdf format, look for it.

It describes the formidable preparations undertaken by the USSR at least ten years prior to its invasion of Germany.

The full invasion was planned for July 1941; it is at the last moment that the Wehrmacht retaliated in June 1941, but it was too late. Hitler had no plans whatsoever to invade the USSR, as he knew Germany could not defeat the Soviets at that point in time.

The invasion of Germany was agreed upon by the USSR, England and the United States in 1938, after the plan was put forward by C. Rakovsky, the person being interviewed in the passages posted in my previous message.

The biggest blunder of the 20th century, militarily, strategically, was the invasion of Poland by Germany in 1939.

Certainly something else could have been worked out: to bring the entire German population of western Poland into Germany, to protect them from the attacks by the Polish army.

As such, the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact moved the borders of the USSR within striking distance of Germany, exactly the plan conceived by Stalin years earlier.

Here is something else.

Read the Icebreaker and you will discover the colossal number of troops, army units, airplanes, tanks which were prepared to be unleashed by the USSR.

Stalin was planning to trick not only Hitler, but also London and New York.

He wanted to attack not only Germany, but the entire western Europe.

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onebigmonkey

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Re: The cold war and the moon
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2017, 11:24:46 PM »
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html