Calculating the number of believers (as of April 2017, 30 millions)

Stash, thanks for an accurate graph. Jesus, muslim, hindu, and NASA, are all doing well, but, umm, interest in flat earth looks to be, should I say, "flat"lining. Yet, wise says belief of flat earth exceeds NASA believers?

In my market experience I would say FE is trending ok. Not great and not horrible. Definitely room for improvement. With a steady decline there needs to be another kick, like whatever that was, back around 2014, to keep it level+. Otherwise, it will probably flatline and just stay steady down low. Which is fine depending upon who you ask.

And you are still using the same broken method.

Let's see if it has magically fixed itself.

Update 9 July 2019

Jesus 1.310.000.000
Water 10.970.000.000

We'll use same complete garbage method that we always use, were we foolishly pretend that the number of search results is magically proportional to the number of believers, with no other contributing factors at all.

Number of Jesus believers: 2.200.000.000
Search to jesus: 1.310.000.000
Search to water: 10.970.000.000

Number of water believers by using ratio:
2.200.000.000 x 10.970.000.000 / 1.310.000.000 = 18.422.900.63

And still more than the population of Earth.

So still a completely useless method that cannot be used to determine the number of believers.

And you are still using the same broken method.

Let's see if it has magically fixed itself.

Update 9 July 2019

Jesus 1.310.000.000
Water 10.970.000.000

We'll use same complete garbage method that we always use, were we foolishly pretend that the number of search results is magically proportional to the number of believers, with no other contributing factors at all.

Number of Jesus believers: 2.200.000.000
Search to jesus: 1.310.000.000
Search to water: 10.970.000.000

Number of water believers by using ratio:
2.200.000.000 x 10.970.000.000 / 1.310.000.000 = 18.422.900.63

And still more than the population of Earth.

So still a completely useless method that cannot be used to determine the number of believers.

Again, again and again you are doing same mistake. You can not compare things in different categories. Is it really hard to get this simple logic? You can compare water only with oil as a fair comparing as I said many times. I think you are not human bot a robot, otherwise you would remember it. Same mistake which you constantly do, same mistake does not magically make your example true. You are still, again and again a vaste of time.

Again, again and again you are doing same mistake.

Yes, that is right, I am following the exact same mistake you are.
You are pretending that you can treat the number of search results as a scaled version of the number of believers.
This is a massive mistake which I am doing to show the ridiculous number you get.

You can not compare things in different categories. Is it really hard to get this simple logic?

No, but it sure seems to be for you.
You compare religious figures to FE and NASA. Three very different categories.
Yet you pretend you can.

You have provided no justification for your methodology.
I have pointed it out many times, yet you keep doing it.


Same mistake which you constantly do, same mistake does not magically make your example true. You are still, again and again a vaste of time.

Quote from: wise on July 09, 2019, 03:40:45 AM

Again, again and again you are doing same mistake.

Yes, that is right, I am following the exact same mistake you are.

Nope. You are comparing water is an element and a man, Jesus represents a belief. Water isn't a belief. You can compare beliefs with themselves and I did it, results are consistent. You can compare water with only oil. You are following your same mistake and dind same wrong result. You can't get rid of your cave of globularism because of you are blind. Everybody has enough intelligence can get how you are in pathetic globularist anger is targeting an issue with wrong way that you have not a hope in your case. repeating same BS does not magically makes it true.

Water isn't a belief.

Yes, just like Jesus isn't, Flat Earth isn't, and NASA isn't.
Yet you pretend they are all the same and can be compared.
Why do you make this same mistake again and again?

You can have belief in any of them.
People can believe in water.
People can believe in Jesus.
People can believe in NASA.
People can believe in FE.

What magically makes your comparisons just fine, but mine not?
It clearly isn't them being beliefs or lack thereof.

Quote from: wise on July 09, 2019, 04:46:15 AM

Water isn't a belief.

Yes, just like Jesus isn't, Flat Earth isn't, and NASA isn't.
Yet you pretend they are all the same and can be compared.
Why do you make this same mistake again and again?

You can have belief in any of them.
People can believe in water.
People can believe in Jesus.
People can believe in NASA.
People can believe in FE.

What magically makes your comparisons just fine, but mine not?
It clearly isn't them being beliefs or lack thereof.

You can not touch Jesus, it is imaginary.
You can not touch flat earth, it is theory.
You can not touch NASA, it is an instutite.

But they can have a common point, you can believe them and your belief is the main source of your search.

But you don't need to believe water, you can drink it. Drinking the water is the main source of your searching it. So you can compare it with other drinks. these methods have been used for years and healthy results are obtained. but as a blind globalist you cannot get out of your cave of ignorance.

There have been 12 posts on the Believer's board by a total of 6 people so far this year.

No FE movement in schools. No textbook. No map. No usefulness. No evidence. No astronomer, ship captain (or sailor, actually), or geographer, or ham radio operator, or gps engineer, or pilot, or anyone whose daily life involves the shape of the earth has come out. If some know and are under physical threat from all powerful secret organisations, why don't they come after FES? AnyFEs here ever get threatened by NASA? If not, that is really pathetic, FES is not a threat to them.

Although my advice may not be appreciated, if you had a flat map with constant scale and accurate distances everywhere, FE would take off like a rocket. Yet no FE ever seems to present one. I say that is the key, and FE should focus on that. Without a map, you are not legit, not real, not credible, not believable.

Why worry about the number of believers, why not first produce scientifically accurate, well proven, and well presented videos, a map, a ring laser gyroscope that does not precess 15 degrees/hr, and a map. Then FE will go viral among the general population instead of just the conspiracy addicts.

If you want FE to take off, you need a map. Have you considered devoting all your FE efforts to a map and not posting until you have it?

Quote from: JackBlack on July 09, 2019, 04:51:30 AM

Quote from: wise on July 09, 2019, 04:46:15 AM

Water isn't a belief.

Yes, just like Jesus isn't, Flat Earth isn't, and NASA isn't.
Yet you pretend they are all the same and can be compared.
Why do you make this same mistake again and again?

You can have belief in any of them.
People can believe in water.
People can believe in Jesus.
People can believe in NASA.
People can believe in FE.

What magically makes your comparisons just fine, but mine not?
It clearly isn't them being beliefs or lack thereof.

You can not touch Jesus, it is imaginary.

Sure you can, on Sundays at communion. You can drink his blood and eat his body.

You can not touch flat earth, it is theory.

Sure you can, I just touched the ground.

You can not touch NASA, it is an instutite.

Well, you got me there. Though I suppose I could hug an astronaut.

But they can have a common point, you can believe them and your belief is the main source of your search.

But you don't need to believe water, you can drink it. Drinking the water is the main source of your searching it. So you can compare it with other drinks. these methods have been used for years and healthy results are obtained. but as a blind globalist you cannot get out of your cave of ignorance.

How would you know that the drinking of water is the main source of searching for it? There's water in the bath and in the toilet, both of which I will not be drinking.

I'm sure I searched fe in the last month, and that search didn't transform me into a flat earth believer. Your formula for calculating believers, is flawed oh wise one. I would argue most of those searches into flat earth are in utter "disbelief".

Perhaps the new book, "The Homoeccentric" universe" book, will kink, er I mean kick, it back up to level.

...
If you want FE to take off, you need a map. Have you considered devoting all your FE efforts to a map and not posting until you have it?

How funny. Did you ever read the topic our martyries? on average, our 6 members disappear mysteriously every year. Our computer is under 24 hours control by secret service agens work for NASA. we are constantly under threat and pressure. and you say that no one is bothering us. how funny.

I completed a map study completely. and I lost serious time for it.  I had needed help of Someone who knows graphic mapping for finalizing the map. but no such person was ever found. the management under control did not help me at all. Even John Davis, who had promised to help at the beginning, did not keep his promise, perhaps somebody forbade him to keep his promise. I'm not hiding behind excuses, but those are all we can do in impossibilities.

Other than that some handle does not post any more, do you have any other reason to believe they were murdered?

I volunteer to help you with your map. Show me your map and I will check it for consistency with known facts. As to finalizing it, if the map does not conform to the reality of the shape of the earth, it can never be finalized. That is the impossibility.

John Davis, are you under NASA control to not help Wise with his map? Oh, silly me, of course NASA will make him deny it.

Quote from: jimster on July 09, 2019, 11:50:11 AM

...
If you want FE to take off, you need a map. Have you considered devoting all your FE efforts to a map and not posting until you have it?

How funny. Did you ever read the topic our martyries? on average, our 6 members disappear mysteriously every year. Our computer is under 24 hours control by secret service agens work for NASA. we are constantly under threat and pressure. and you say that no one is bothering us. how funny.

You ever stop to consider how many Globe Earth members disappear mysteriously every year? Did NASA agents dispatch them as well? How funny indeed.

You can not touch flat earth, it is theory.

No, it isn't a theory. It is a bunch of contradictory models.
But thanks for admitting Earth isn't flat, because if it was, every time you touch Earth you would be touching Flat Earth.

But they can have a common point, you can believe them and your belief is the main source of your search.

And they have massive differences.
If you wish to assert belief is the main source of search results you will need to back that up.
Especially as plenty will be pointing out that the belief is false.

I also highly doubt most people search NASA for belief.
NASA is a very real institution. It is far more comparable to water than the fiction you try to compare it to.

I also highly doubt most people search NASA for belief.
NASA is a very real institution. It is far more comparable to water than the fiction you try to compare it to.

But NASA was founded as the ''National Aeronautics and Space Administration''.
While in reality it was a tentacle from the military to try to gain the upperhand in space.
"If I could get one message to you it would be this: the future of this country and the welfare of the free world depends upon our success in space. There is no room in this country for any but a fully cooperative, urgently motivated all-out effort toward space leadership. No one person, no one company, no one government agency, has a monopoly on the competence, the missions, or the requirements for the space program." President Lyndon B. Johnson

Maybe NASA is an institute, but it was very deceptive about what it really was...there you go !!

Quote from: JackBlack on July 09, 2019, 02:38:38 PM

I also highly doubt most people search NASA for belief.
NASA is a very real institution. It is far more comparable to water than the fiction you try to compare it to.

But NASA was founded as the ''National Aeronautics and Space Administration''.
While in reality it was a tentacle from the military to try to gain the upperhand in space.
"If I could get one message to you it would be this: the future of this country and the welfare of the free world depends upon our success in space. There is no room in this country for any but a fully cooperative, urgently motivated all-out effort toward space leadership. No one person, no one company, no one government agency, has a monopoly on the competence, the missions, or the requirements for the space program." President Lyndon B. Johnson

Maybe NASA is an institute, but it was very deceptive about what it really was...there you go !!

Ummm, everyone knew that. Remember, it was called the "Space Race" for a reason. What's your point?

Quote from: dutchy on July 09, 2019, 02:45:43 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on July 09, 2019, 02:38:38 PM

I also highly doubt most people search NASA for belief.
NASA is a very real institution. It is far more comparable to water than the fiction you try to compare it to.

But NASA was founded as the ''National Aeronautics and Space Administration''.
While in reality it was a tentacle from the military to try to gain the upperhand in space.
"If I could get one message to you it would be this: the future of this country and the welfare of the free world depends upon our success in space. There is no room in this country for any but a fully cooperative, urgently motivated all-out effort toward space leadership. No one person, no one company, no one government agency, has a monopoly on the competence, the missions, or the requirements for the space program." President Lyndon B. Johnson

Maybe NASA is an institute, but it was very deceptive about what it really was...there you go !!

Ummm, everyone knew that. Remember, it was called the "Space Race" for a reason. What's your point?

It should have been named ..National Aeronautics and Armament of Space

Quote from: wise on July 09, 2019, 05:22:14 AM

You can not touch flat earth, it is theory.

No, it isn't a theory. It is a bunch of contradictory models.
But thanks for admitting Earth isn't flat, because if it was, every time you touch Earth you would be touching Flat Earth.

Quote from: wise on July 09, 2019, 05:22:14 AM

But they can have a common point, you can believe them and your belief is the main source of your search.

And they have massive differences.
If you wish to assert belief is the main source of search results you will need to back that up.
Especially as plenty will be pointing out that the belief is false.

I also highly doubt most people search NASA for belief.
NASA is a very real institution. It is far more comparable to water than the fiction you try to compare it to.

Stop to do word salad. I know how I can categorise things. I am that with an exact way that everybody can get it, water definitely isn't in the category of nasa, flat earth and jesus. If you aware of it, you are telling same thing but I don't care your childish objections. Does not it mean anything to you? You're wrong so I don't care your suggestion. Even you would right I would not listen what you say. Because you are unable to do anything true, even mistakenly.

Quote from: Stash on July 09, 2019, 02:53:04 PM

Quote from: dutchy on July 09, 2019, 02:45:43 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on July 09, 2019, 02:38:38 PM

I also highly doubt most people search NASA for belief.
NASA is a very real institution. It is far more comparable to water than the fiction you try to compare it to.

But NASA was founded as the ''National Aeronautics and Space Administration''.
While in reality it was a tentacle from the military to try to gain the upperhand in space.
"If I could get one message to you it would be this: the future of this country and the welfare of the free world depends upon our success in space. There is no room in this country for any but a fully cooperative, urgently motivated all-out effort toward space leadership. No one person, no one company, no one government agency, has a monopoly on the competence, the missions, or the requirements for the space program." President Lyndon B. Johnson

Maybe NASA is an institute, but it was very deceptive about what it really was...there you go !!

Ummm, everyone knew that. Remember, it was called the "Space Race" for a reason. What's your point?

It should have been named ..National Aeronautics and Armament of Space

Maybe more appropriate. But so what? Again, no mystery or deception there. I could be wrong, but I think it was Truman who said something like, "The nation that controls space, controls the world..." something like that. Anyway, NASA has a better ring to it than NAAS 

Quote from: JackBlack on July 09, 2019, 02:38:38 PM

Quote from: wise on July 09, 2019, 05:22:14 AM

You can not touch flat earth, it is theory.

No, it isn't a theory. It is a bunch of contradictory models.
But thanks for admitting Earth isn't flat, because if it was, every time you touch Earth you would be touching Flat Earth.

Quote from: wise on July 09, 2019, 05:22:14 AM

But they can have a common point, you can believe them and your belief is the main source of your search.

And they have massive differences.
If you wish to assert belief is the main source of search results you will need to back that up.
Especially as plenty will be pointing out that the belief is false.

I also highly doubt most people search NASA for belief.
NASA is a very real institution. It is far more comparable to water than the fiction you try to compare it to.

Stop to do word salad. I know how I can categorise things.

Apparently you don't as everyone has been pointing out for months. You may know how you can categorize things but you certainly don't know how to categorize things.

Maybe more appropriate. But so what? Again, no mystery or deception there. I could be wrong, but I think it was Truman who said something like, "The nation that controls space, controls the world..." something like that. Anyway, NASA has a better ring to it than NAAS 

Exactly...we agree for once 

Most ordinary people think NASA was founded to simply explore space...not to gain the upperhand military in those days....
The name NASA let's a casual observer believe it was founded as an institute solely for space exploration, ...they were making sure their real intentions were partly blurred out by the name.
So NASA is indeed a real institute, but why and with what purpose it was founded was hidden underneath ''innocent'' space exploration on purpose.
So that the ordinary person believed it was about exciting space rockets and all....

I know how I can categorise things.

Yes, and there are many ways to do.
You are yet to substantiate that your categorisation is valid and mine is not.
You have provided no real justification for why these vastly different topics should be treated as the same category, but water shouldn't be.

water definitely isn't in the category of nasa, flat earth and jesus.

And I would say that NASA is definitely not in the same category as FE and Jesus, and FE isn't in the same category as Jesus.
I would say they are all in completely different categories.

They are vastly different things and there is no reason to link them together at the exclusion of water.

Quote from: Stash on July 09, 2019, 03:24:01 PM

Maybe more appropriate. But so what? Again, no mystery or deception there. I could be wrong, but I think it was Truman who said something like, "The nation that controls space, controls the world..." something like that. Anyway, NASA has a better ring to it than NAAS 

Exactly...we agree for once 

Most ordinary people think NASA was founded to simply explore space...not to gain the upperhand military in those days....
The name NASA let's a casual observer believe it was founded as an institute solely for space exploration, ...they were making sure their real intentions were partly blurred out by the name.
So NASA is indeed a real institute, but why and with what purpose it was founded was hidden underneath ''innocent'' space exploration on purpose.
So that the ordinary person believed it was about exciting space rockets and all....

Apparently ordinary people are not very bright.

Now, back to the topic at hand, giving Wise a hard time about his bizarre statistics gathering techniques...

I realize wise is a fun target for you guys, but pls knock it off.

Fair point. Wise has his way of calculating 'believers' and there's space for everyone to have a voice on the subject.

I did start diving into the numbers and came up with some entirely anecdotal, hardly scientific results. I picked 'New Posts' here and at TFES just to do a compare to see if I could target a trend. Again, super anecdotal, but what I found was interesting at least on a surface level.

Taking New Posts numbers from June of 2018 and comparing them to June of 2019, I found a 15% drop-off here at TheFlatEarthSociey.com. However, at TFES.org, I found a whopping 142% drop-off. Probably means nothing as I simply picked 'New Posts' as a metric and maybe it's the wrong one. But the numbers are interesting nonetheless.

Proving our method how works:

This is the trends comparing İmamoğlu and Yıldırım:



Imamoğlu leads the statistics has won the elections.

Elections in Greece comparison New Democracy and Radical left parties.



New democracy party leads the Radical left in statistics. New democracy won the elections.

Italian elections. Matteo Salvini vs Berlusconi comparison.



Salvini leads Berlusconi in statistics seem four times more. Salvini's party took votes four times more than Berlusconi's party.

Putin vs Grudinin.



Putin was five times popular when election made in Russia and took 6 times more votings. Maybe a bit cheating happened in benefit of Putin. 

NASA vs Flat Earth.



Flat Earth topic in science sub topic leads NASA in youtube search, ratio is 30 NASA to 34 Flat Earth. I've used youtube because flat earthers use youtube search but not web search generally.

We've calculated it as 595 nasa believers to 671m flat earth believers. If we convert it same type, it turns to 30 NASA to 33,8 Flat Earth. it is seen that the statistical method is appropriate.

Fair point. Wise has his way of calculating 'believers' and there's space for everyone to have a voice on the subject.

I did start diving into the numbers and came up with some entirely anecdotal, hardly scientific results. I picked 'New Posts' here and at TFES just to do a compare to see if I could target a trend. Again, super anecdotal, but what I found was interesting at least on a surface level.

Taking New Posts numbers from June of 2018 and comparing them to June of 2019, I found a 15% drop-off here at TheFlatEarthSociey.com. However, at TFES.org, I found a whopping 142% drop-off. Probably means nothing as I simply picked 'New Posts' as a metric and maybe it's the wrong one. But the numbers are interesting nonetheless.

I think Wise is using the Mormon model. Just as they retrospectively baptise people who are long dead, Wise grants flat earth belief to random people. Though to be honest I really think Wise is on huge leg pulling chain yanking exercise and is much smarter than people imagine....;-)

Flat Earth topic in science sub topic leads NASA in youtube search, ratio is 30 NASA to 34 Flat Earth. I've used youtube because flat earthers use youtube search but not web search generally.

We've calculated it as 595 nasa believers to 671m flat earth believers. If we convert it same type, it turns to 30 NASA to 33,8 Flat Earth. it is seen that the statistical method is appropriate.

Can you maybe restate what you mean by all of the above? It makes no sense. You're trying to convey something but it's not translating. I can help rephrase if need be.

Proving our method how works:
This is the trends comparing İmamoğlu and Yıldırım:
Imamoğlu leads the statistics has won the elections.

Which does nothing to equate it to the number of believers, nor that your method is in any way correct.
You are using search results, not trends. They are quite different.

But even that doesn't work.
Look at Labour and Liberal for Australia.
Labour trends higher, but Liberal won.

I've used youtube because flat earthers use youtube search but not web search generally.

And what about those that accept NASA is real?
What do they normally use?