Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?

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dutchy

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #120 on: April 30, 2017, 11:24:28 AM »
But you claim nothing hidden from water level,yet in the photo below, from about the same distance much of Toronto is hidden.
!

Toronto as seen across lake Ontario from Olcott Beach, NY; evening 18th July EST, by Ad Meskens
Now those buildings are 64.5 km away and large part's are hidden.
So a photo taken from eyeheight + refraction..... how much according to which curvature calculator should be hidden ?
On many photo's taken over a lake we see (much) more than the curvature calculator + refraction allows for on a globe with a circomference of 25.000 miles.
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So, which photo is genuine? I would say both are probably quite genuine and you need photos taken under various conditions to gain much evidence.
You mean ''looming'', ''lensing'', ''refraction'', ''mirages'' and ''superior mirages'' ?

look it is just a ''fata morgana''.... :o from 5200 feet from the abyss uhhhh the deep.

If you think that is a superior mirage than something is very wrong with the gullibility within our modern society.
The Chigaco skyline has done a perfect double backflip just to arise at the horizon as we would expect when viewing into the distance.
But i don't blame you, because this looks very real to you :
From 1000.000 miles a perfect shot  ;D :'(

Reality as shown in the picture's of Chicago is a ''fata morgana'' and CGI is reality for you. ???
O boy.......
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 11:31:51 AM by dutchy »

Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #121 on: April 30, 2017, 01:09:18 PM »
I'm still thinking about a response for you but your last one does you no credit.
You know as well as I do that the whole notion of a flat earth rests on lies, ignorance and a intertwined conspiracy of such complexity, that most flat earthers fail to follow its intimate conclusion.
The number of things they claim to be lies and a hoax would suggest that we would all be living in caves rubbing sticks together.....to read some of the posts on this site they may be well doing that. Forget trying to debunk small side issues think of the big picture. Why would millions of people conspire to hide the truth from you? That is the only question you need to ponder.

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rabinoz

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #122 on: April 30, 2017, 03:53:49 PM »
But you claim nothing hidden from water level, yet in the photo below, from about the same distance much of Toronto is hidden.

Toronto as seen across lake Ontario from Olcott Beach, NY; evening 18th July EST, by Ad Meskens
Now those buildings are 64.5 km away and large part's are hidden.
So a photo taken from eyeheight + refraction..... how much according to which curvature calculator should be hidden ?
On many photo's taken over a lake we see (much) more than the curvature calculator + refraction allows for on a globe with a circomference of 25.000 miles.
In that "Toronto as seen across lake Ontario from Olcott Beach, NY" photo as near as I can gather it is was taken from "Olcott Beach Carousel Park" about 9 m above water level.
This would make the "hidden" amount 227 m with no refraction or 188 m with "typical refraction".

Nobody denies that on some photo's taken over a lake we see more than the curvature calculator + typical refraction allows for on a globe with a circumference of 24,900 miles - not exactly your words.

Whether you like it or not does not change the facts. The visibility of distant objects varies very considerably.
There's nothing I can do about it and nothing you can do about it.

You might read an earlier post Throwing a Curveball of Refraction « Message by rabinoz on April 15, 2017, 06:39:19 AM ».
Refraction has around long before you neo-Flatists turned up around 1800 AD.
It was of great concern to
      navigators using the horizon for "horizontal" in celestial navigation and to
      astronomers taking star and planet observations near the horizon, hence that graph in the post.
But
In the above photo above, a great deal of Toronto is hidden - that is a FACT!
You might even read The day that Toronto floated above Lake Ontario in Buffalo
Quote from: dutchy
You mean ''looming'', ''lensing'', ''refraction'', ''mirages'' and ''superior mirages'' ?
look it is just a ''fata morgana''.... :o from 5200 feet from the abyss uhhhh the deep.
I don't believe that I mentioned "fata morgana", but I haven't a clue what you mean by "from 5200 feet from the abyss uhhhh the deep"?
Quote from: dutchy
If you think that is a superior mirage than something is very wrong with the gullibility within our modern society.
The Chicago skyline has done a perfect double backflip just to arise at the horizon as we would expect when viewing into the distance.
So you toss out all photos of the "Chigago Skyline" with much hidden and keep the one that suits you.
Ever heard of "Confirmation Bias"?
I accept them all as genuine photos taken under different conditions.

Mirage of the Chicago Skyline from Grand Mere State Park
   

Most of Chicago hidden - behind what?
   

Oops, where has Chicago gone?
Quote from: dutchy
But i don't blame you, because this looks very real to you :
From 1.000.000 miles a perfect shot  ;D :'(
Reality as shown in the picture's of Chicago is a ''fata morgana'' and CGI is reality for you. ??? O boy.......
No, I accept all these photos as real, you pick those that fit your pre-conceived ideas.
You must believe that the earth is flat so you declare anything that is evidence against that as fake.
I have heard the same old story over and over:
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Place of the Conspiracy in FET
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The existence of such a huge quantity of false information indicates the existence of the conspiracy.

Essentially the reasoning boils down to -

P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated
P2) The FET (Flat Earth Theory) is an obvious truth
P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET

C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET is fabricated evidence
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
From THE FLAT EARTH Wiki, Place of the Conspiracy in FET.

Just note "There is personally unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET" and "The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET is fabricated evidence".
Anything that you come up with that you cannot (or will not) personally verify can be deemed "fabricated evidence".
Looks pretty convincing to me.
"The FET (Flat Earth Theory) is an obvious truth" so any evidence, not personally verifiable is fake!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 06:04:14 PM by rabinoz »

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dutchy

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #123 on: May 01, 2017, 09:59:08 AM »
I'm still thinking about a response for you but your last one does you no credit.
You know as well as I do that the whole notion of a flat earth rests on lies, ignorance and a intertwined conspiracy of such complexity, that most flat earthers fail to follow its intimate conclusion.
The number of things they claim to be lies and a hoax would suggest that we would all be living in caves rubbing sticks together.....to read some of the posts on this site they may be well doing that. Forget trying to debunk small side issues think of the big picture. Why would millions of people conspire to hide the truth from you? That is the only question you need to ponder.
I think that the notion about a ''flatearth'' has started as a reflex towards the modern society that has many induviduals in a stranglehold....one way or the other.
Such ''reflexes'' have made Trump the president of the United States, while he is in my opinion one of the last persons in the USA that would do anything for the benefits of all. But the same can be said about the Clintons en Co and their ongoing hungre for influence and power.
Trump is about himself, himself and more about him.
That having said,...i am a father of three, my eldest son is a major historian, my second son almost a graduated IT professional on a higher educational level and my youngest daughter is still in highschool, doing national top sports (trampoline) and doing extremely well.
I am a religious person (christian), but decided to give my children a less influential religious education than i initially was aiming for.
The less indoctrination the better,...... to give them their own choices in live without ''daddies deepest convictions'' clouding their observation.

Our communication at home is good, pleasant and sometimes on the edge, because my wife and i allow for it and support it !
What i did notice is, that contrary to my own childhood, they hardly question anything they were told at school.
Evolution, cosmology, politics, history...all are accepted and barely challenced. To busy, to ''lazy'', to ''unimportant'' , but foremost because ''they'' (professionals in the field) would ''surely know'' etc.
I think that is very unhealthy, because i have noticed more than once how indoctrinated they are about varying subjects they learned without ever needing to question such propositions.
Society agrees that they are ''succesfull'' induviduals (diploma's), while it is my deepest conviction that a lot is left wanting in their further developement as induvidual persons capable of critical thought..
When talking about the moonlandings or space discoveries, they simply accept what is presented, because ''those'' involved would know better than me...for sure ?!...
But changing my tactics by asking questions instaed of proclaiming whatever insight, it became obvious that they do have questions, but don't realise it very often.
I blame the way ''we'' teach our children in schools, it is more and more about learning, implementing, collecting settled info instead of stimulating a deep process of intellectual thought.

I personally would never ever believed that i would doubt the moonlandings and be swayed towards a flatearth....
Why did it happen ?
Not because i live in a basement !, (therefor some background info about the status of my family life ....and btw happily married for over 27 years with my first girlfriend i felt madly in love with)
Not because it gives me some special feeling to know some secret knowledge the rest doesn't.
Not because i failed in modern society and need some special meaning in my insignificant life.
Not because i am to stupid to even understand basic science.
Not because i am to lazy to get myself informed properly.

Only because i became more and more interrested in modern society my wife, children and i participated in on a daily basis.
It became obvious that wherever humans organise, they also left the door wide open for some form of corruption.
Organised religion / church (don't go there ever !), politics and the industry lobby, financial clubs, sport organisations, scientific research and more.....
The higher organisations climb on the social ladder the more corruption....so it seems.
The pressure to be the best, more successfull, ''worth your government investments'', top the competition doesn't promote a healthy organisation either.
We have witinessed quite some ''revelations'' in the last decade where human nature (greed, powerlust and other forms of wickedness) hit the surface more than once..

When it comes to space exploration, we hardly have independent gatekeepers that are capable of checking the actual status apart from financial input.
Compartimentalisation is extremely effective and even ''errased NASA tapes'' seem to difficult to overtake. Something any other organisation would get into a lot of trouble and questioning. In Holland a single tape was lost/errased that COULD contain info about the genocide in Srebrenica and the whole country was in shock.
But NASA doesn't know how the tapes were lost and many pretend those things occur in any organisation once in a while.....which is simply untrue, a lie and a fabrication in favour of a cover up, as clear as you would ever see one.

I began to read more and more about NASA and i could hardly believe in what unique position they had maneuvered themselves through the decades.
Like the churh in ancient times they seemed above (literarely) other organisations and questioning NASA's accomplishments is like questioning the validity of the church as a gatekeeper of christianity.
Because the general public fancies ''discoveries in space'' more than ''research about the climat''(positive vs negative),there is little suspicion about NASA's achievements, because most see a future in which space travel and moontrips can be possible as a great prospect. Of course NASA (who will provide that) has a clear advantage based on positive ''wishfull thinking''. That is why positive promises by politicians ''work'' during the campaign, while everyone with half a brain knows those promises are made out of thin air, or even based on mantra's like ''hope'', ''together'', ''yes we can'', ''make America great again'', ''fantastic''. I have heard, seen many intellectuals fall for the Obama rhetoric....the same persons who accuse me of being an ''imbecile'' when doubting the moonlandings.....just a matter of perspective and critical thinking,...in my opinion.


Fast forward,........after three years reading all i could find, i came to the conclusion that i could no longer believe the manned moonlandings happened.
To many astronauts that rarely gave interviews and when they did something was not right in a way that lying politicians can hardly match.
I knew a lot about cosmology as a puber so the default paradigm of cosmology wasn't totally new for me.
I read about the string theory, the M theory and more.....

When i went outside a totally different experience of walking on earth ''happened''. Viewing the moon i could no longer believe that men went there influenced by all that i read.
I could no longer believe the sun was 150.000.000 km away and a lightyear 950.000.000.000 km.
Some stars i viewed where supposedly trillions of km away.
It didn't make sense whatsoever anymore.....
Of course i can still explain to myself about what i am seeing should be validated according to current cosmology, i understand it perfectly well !!

I stumbled upon some crazy flatearth articles and wondered how certain wacko's could still be around in 2013.
Then i gave it a few years and the whole idea began to make more and more sense.....
Am i a diehard ''flatearther'' ?,.... most certainly not, but the way many good videos about visuality beyond the curvature, gyroscopes, the invalid coriolis effect on drains, gunmen and the coriolis effect, the sun moving at the ''North pole'' made me a disbeliever of the total cosmological big bang and expanding universe theory with distances beyond rationality.
Since CGI is presented more, my suspicion is growing and on tv a scientist explained (couple of years ago) how the ''far away universes'' captured by Hubble really looked on the initial Hubble ''footage'' before presenting it to the general public after some extreme window dressing. I was in total shock, because that was what this person said when he saw the raw data at first and the window dressing afterwards.

So i am in a sort of ''no man's land'', but it would take some real testing and modern set ups to re-install my believes in the current cosmological model.

I hope i have informed you a bit more about my own personal journey in all of this....thanks for listening ;D


« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 10:46:04 AM by dutchy »

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markjo

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #124 on: May 01, 2017, 11:10:39 AM »
Compartimentalisation is extremely effective and even ''errased NASA tapes'' seem to difficult to overtake.
What about the telemetry tapes from all of the Apollo missions that weren't erased?  Don't they count for anything?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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dutchy

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #125 on: May 01, 2017, 11:25:54 AM »
What about the telemetry tapes from all of the Apollo missions that weren't erased?  Don't they count for anything?
Sure !
But that doesn't take away from any rational explaination about HOW most of it got lost.
It is like claiming i have a huge collection of extremely rare comic books, that got lost during a move to another place and then claiming these things do happen once in a while. ::)

Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #126 on: May 01, 2017, 12:22:36 PM »
What about the telemetry tapes from all of the Apollo missions that weren't erased?  Don't they count for anything?
Sure !
But that doesn't take away from any rational explaination about HOW most of it got lost.

"Most" of the Apollo telemetry got lost? Nope.

The type of tape they were using to record mission telemetry became unavailable, so some of the original tapes from earlier missions were reused for later missions after the data on them was archived. This became a "thing" when interest in improving the quality of the scan conversion of the Apollo 11 moonwalk video was investigated, and the original tapes containing the unconverted analog video were found to have been reused. It's unfortunate that only the best-available (at the time) scan converted standard video was archived instead of the slow-scan original, but preserving the former was much more straightforward since equipment to do so was readily available, unlike the custom format, and, since we were going back soon anyway, that video was treated as kind of an afterthought.

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It is like claiming i have a huge collection of extremely rare comic books, that got lost during a move to another place and then claiming these things do happen once in a while. ::)

Zillions of comic books were routinely discarded and destroyed soon after they were published because they weren't valuable at the time. Some are kept for a while, but fewer (or, in some cases, none) are preserved until they become rare and valuable. "I had that whole collection when I was a kid, but mom tossed it after I moved off to college. Now, 40 years later, those would have been worth thousands."  It happens. A lot. Which is why a few become rare and those, when recognized, are treated accordingly.

Actually, I have no problem believing that troves of rare comic books are sometimes discarded because their value at the time isn't recognized. That's the sort of thing people comb estate sales for.

In the case of the Apollo telemetry tapes, there wasn't a single working deck that could read them at the time that the search for the original tapes was being made earlier this century, and hadn't been for some time. One that could potentially be restored had been located in a museum, so there was hope. If there's nothing to read the tapes on, the tapes are of little to no value, even presuming the tape itself hadn't deteriorated too much to be read. This was especially true since almost all the data on them had already been adequately transcribed. Unfortunately, the transcription quality for the Apollo-11 live surface video, deemed adequate at the time, was not as good as it could have been done 40 years later.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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markjo

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #127 on: May 01, 2017, 01:19:23 PM »
What about the telemetry tapes from all of the Apollo missions that weren't erased?  Don't they count for anything?
Sure !
But that doesn't take away from any rational explaination about HOW most of it got lost.
Who said that "most of it got lost"?  I though that it was just the Apollo 11 tapes that were lost, not the other 16 Apollo mission tapes.

It is like claiming i have a huge collection of extremely rare comic books, that got lost during a move to another place and then claiming these things do happen once in a while. ::)
Are you saying that no one's mother ever threw out a fortune in old comic books?  I know that mine did a bunch of years ago.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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dutchy

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #128 on: May 01, 2017, 01:43:26 PM »
What about the telemetry tapes from all of the Apollo missions that weren't erased?  Don't they count for anything?
Sure !
But that doesn't take away from any rational explaination about HOW most of it got lost.

"Most" of the Apollo telemetry got lost? Nope.

The type of tape they were using to record mission telemetry became unavailable, so some of the original tapes from earlier missions were reused for later missions after the data on them was archived. This became a "thing" when interest in improving the quality of the scan conversion of the Apollo 11 moonwalk video was investigated, and the original tapes containing the unconverted analog video were found to have been reused. It's unfortunate that only the best-available (at the time) scan converted standard video was archived instead of the slow-scan original, but preserving the former was much more straightforward since equipment to do so was readily available, unlike the custom format, and, since we were going back soon anyway, that video was treated as kind of an afterthought.

Quote
It is like claiming i have a huge collection of extremely rare comic books, that got lost during a move to another place and then claiming these things do happen once in a while. ::)

Zillions of comic books were routinely discarded and destroyed soon after they were published because they weren't valuable at the time. Some are kept for a while, but fewer (or, in some cases, none) are preserved until they become rare and valuable. "I had that whole collection when I was a kid, but mom tossed it after I moved off to college. Now, 40 years later, those would have been worth thousands."  It happens. A lot. Which is why a few become rare and those, when recognized, are treated accordingly.

Actually, I have no problem believing that troves of rare comic books are sometimes discarded because their value at the time isn't recognized. That's the sort of thing people comb estate sales for.

In the case of the Apollo telemetry tapes, there wasn't a single working deck that could read them at the time that the search for the original tapes was being made earlier this century, and hadn't been for some time. One that could potentially be restored had been located in a museum, so there was hope. If there's nothing to read the tapes on, the tapes are of little to no value, even presuming the tape itself hadn't deteriorated too much to be read. This was especially true since almost all the data on them had already been adequately transcribed. Unfortunately, the transcription quality for the Apollo-11 live surface video, deemed adequate at the time, was not as good as it could have been done 40 years later.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes-idUSTRE56F5MK20090720
''NASA admitted in 2006 that no one could find the original video recordings of the July 20, 1969, landing.''

''The good news is he found where they went. The bad news is they were part of a batch of 200,000 tapes that were degaussed -- magnetically erased -- and re-used to save money.''

Knowing the moonhoax debate was out there from the very start, the original high quality video of the first moonlandings could contain the most obvious clues for a staged Apollo moonlanding.
The original Apollo 11 recordings were unique with that in mind.
Almost all moonhoax' critcis about a staged moonlanding is focussed on the pre recorded Apollo 11 footage that was shown on a big screen during ''live tv'' worldwide.
Everything should be in a vault preserved for future generations.
The comments about how the ''moonhoax clan'' would react upon such loss, indicates that NASA was very aware about the flaws that hoaxers' claimed to have found in the original Apollo 11 recordings.
With that in mind they should have preserved their Exhibit A in a better place.

My point stands. NASA knew the ''hoaxers'' were especcially dismissing the recordings of the Apollo 11 attempts to ''fake'' the first landing and lost it, knowing it would fuel the debate.

And did you loose some large collection of great value know as such? Do you know someone who did ? (my remarks about loosing a large amount of rare comicbooks with a KNOWN value)
The first moonlanding is, so they say, the greatest achievement of mankind,.......not those missions that followed soon after.
To fail to preserve those original recordings is without explaination.
And yes i can read all ''explainations'' available to explain away how and why it did happen.....but none of them make sense whatsoever, only from a cover up perspective.
''To safe money'' ?
If you compare the total budget of NASA in the lean times of NASA,  recording over the greatest achievement of mankind is insane.
What amount of money was saved by doing so ?
I can think of hundreds of far more irrelevant cuts to save way more money.....or are you implying they did cut each and every corner untill even ''free space'' and ''storage'' became to expensive at one point in NASA's budgetary history ?


Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #129 on: May 01, 2017, 04:18:51 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes-idUSTRE56F5MK20090720
''NASA admitted in 2006 that no one could find the original video recordings of the July 20, 1969, landing.''

''The good news is he found where they went. The bad news is they were part of a batch of 200,000 tapes that were degaussed -- magnetically erased -- and re-used to save money.''

Knowing the moonhoax debate was out there from the very start, the original high quality video of the first moonlandings could contain the most obvious clues for a staged Apollo moonlanding.
The original Apollo 11 recordings were unique with that in mind.

The slow-scan (SS) video wasn't high quality to start with. 320 scan lines, 200-line resolution, 10 fps progressive, monochrome. It was better than the scan-converted video but still poor even by the day's NTSC TV standard.

Given the ridiculous conclusions some people have jumped to from the truly high quality Hasselblad images, anyone that wanted to make a fuss about what the video showed would not have been deterred.

Quote
Almost all moonhoax' critcis about a staged moonlanding is focussed on the pre recorded Apollo 11 footage that was shown on a big screen during ''live tv'' worldwide.

Nothing would have changed. All of the later Apollo missions had far better-quality video[nb]Apollo 12's video camera failed early in the EVA.[/nb] than the best that could be hoped for from the Apollo 11 SS video. Has that fazed the "hoaxers"? No.

Quote
Everything should be in a vault preserved for future generations.

Agreed. Fortunately, almost all of the data is preserved. Unfortunately, even NASA at the time had constraints and they made a decision that was poor in hindsight. Shit happens.

Quote
The comments about how the ''moonhoax clan'' would react upon such loss, indicates that NASA was very aware about the flaws that hoaxers' claimed to have found in the original Apollo 11 recordings.
With that in mind they should have preserved their Exhibit A in a better place.

My point stands. NASA knew the ''hoaxers'' were especcially dismissing the recordings of the Apollo 11 attempts to ''fake'' the first landing and lost it, knowing it would fuel the debate.

You overstate the influence of "hoaxers". There were a few at the time of Apollo; they were generally regarded as the nutcases they obviously were. By the time Internet access got cheap enough for them to find it and make enough noise to break squelch, the tapes were already long gone.

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And did you loose some large collection of great value know as such? Do you know someone who did ? (my remarks about loosing a large amount of rare comicbooks with a KNOWN value)

I've known some comic and baseball-card collections that were tossed, yes (they weren't mine; I usually would give away, lose, or discard comics soon after reading them, so no collection). The value wasn't known at the time they were discarded, though. Also...

As already mentioned, the Apollo 11 data (including the EVA video) was archived and is still available today. The value of the raw SS video was underappreciated at the time. Obviously, this was a mistake. They needed the tapes. Shit happens.

It's 'lose', not 'loose', BTW. [nb]That blunder especially bugs me in sports discussions and carries elsewhere. How could an English speaking (sorta) sports fan not know how to spell the two most basic terms in sports: 'win' and 'lose'?[/nb]

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The first moonlanding is, so they say, the greatest achievement of mankind,.......not those missions that followed soon after.
To fail to preserve those original recordings is without explaination.

It's already been explained. Many times.

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And yes i can read all ''explainations'' available to explain away how and why it did happen.....but none of them make sense whatsoever, only from a cover up perspective.

You see... there are explanations. You don't like them, but that's your problem.

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''To safe money'' ?
If you compare the total budget of NASA in the lean times of NASA, recording over the greatest achievement of mankind is insane.

Not insane. They had rational reasons. It was a poor choice. Shit happens.

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What amount of money was saved by doing so ?

No real idea; since - as I understand it - production of that kind of tape was discontinued, if they had to commission a limited run to make more it could have been an enormous amount.

A bigger problem may have been schedule. They still had missions to fly and needed media to record their data.

You could ask NASA how much money they were talking about.

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I can think of hundreds of far more irrelevant cuts to save way more money.....

Good on you! Are you working from actual data, or are you just speculating and expressing uninformed opinion? I'm betting on the latter and you being what's called a Monday-morning quarterback.

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or are you implying they did cut each and every corner untill even ''free space'' and ''storage'' became to expensive at one point in NASA's budgetary history ?

That seems unlikely in an organization as large and complex as NASA during the Apollo days. Too bad you weren't there to tell them where to save pennies. For all we know, not knowing then what you know (and think you know) now, you may have recommended re-using the tapes to save a big ol' pot o' money, and screw all those penny-ante "savings" (which, of course, may have had their own repercussions).
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Arealhumanbeing

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #130 on: May 03, 2017, 11:59:16 AM »
Don't worry I have no illusions that fully indoctrinated flat earthers will believe any evidence against the flat earth.
I've seen numerous times where any evidence is simply deemed as fake, you do it yourself. I lot of other evidence is simply ignored.

What are you even trying to say? Is the stress getting to you mr.shill?

I see theres no response here!

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Shifter

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #131 on: May 03, 2017, 06:14:15 PM »

I see theres no response here!

There's often no response from you on almost everything asked to you so whats your point? On another thread I asked have you have removed your camera from your smart phone (if you have one) because otherwise, like so many other things in your life you take for granted, they were invented or inspired by NASA. You are a hypocrite of the tallest order.

Remove ye smart phone camera lest ye be a NASA shill!!!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 07:08:06 PM by Shifter »


Rabinoz = Coronoz. Australias corona virus super spreader

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rabinoz

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #132 on: May 03, 2017, 07:04:47 PM »
Don't worry I have no illusions that fully indoctrinated flat earthers will believe any evidence against the flat earth.
I've seen numerous times where any evidence is simply deemed as fake, you do it yourself. I lot of other evidence is simply ignored.

What are you even trying to say? Is the stress getting to you mr.shill?

I see theres no response here!
You said nothing worth responding to! And you still post that same untruth.
I did get one letter wrong "I A lot of other evidence is simply ignored.", but you often do a lot worse.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 07:08:34 PM by rabinoz »

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Arealhumanbeing

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #133 on: May 03, 2017, 07:40:57 PM »
Don't worry I have no illusions that fully indoctrinated flat earthers will believe any evidence against the flat earth.
I've seen numerous times where any evidence is simply deemed as fake, you do it yourself. I lot of other evidence is simply ignored.

What are you even trying to say? Is the stress getting to you mr.shill?

I see theres no response here!
You said nothing worth responding to! And you still post that same untruth.
I did get one letter wrong "I A lot of other evidence is simply ignored.", but you often do a lot worse.


Ohh now Rab the shill cant read!

I mean he clearly said that indocrinated flat earthers believe anything AGAINST flat earth...

That doesnt make much sense...

But when asked about it, Rab the shill says I am a liar, posting "untruths".

Shill harder Rab...
Shill harder...

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markjo

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #134 on: May 03, 2017, 07:49:47 PM »
Ohh now Rab the shill cant read!

I mean he clearly said that indocrinated flat earthers believe anything AGAINST flat earth...

That doesnt make much sense...
Perhaps because that isn't what he said.  Try reading it again.

Don't worry I have no illusions that fully indoctrinated flat earthers will believe any evidence against the flat earth.

I think that you missed the bold part.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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rabinoz

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #135 on: May 03, 2017, 08:16:43 PM »
Don't worry I have no illusions that fully indoctrinated flat earthers will believe any evidence against the flat earth.
Ohh now Rab the shill cant read!
I mean he clearly said that indocrinated flat earthers believe anything AGAINST flat earth...
That doesnt make much sense...
But when asked about it, Rab the shill says I am a liar, posting "untruths".
Are you sure that I am the one that can't read? Read what I wrote again!
I did not say "indocrinated flat earthers believe anything AGAINST flat earth".
What I said was
"I have no illusions that fully indoctrinated flat earthers will believe any evidence against the flat earth.".
That vital omission, "I have no illusions that . . . . . . . . wil",
that you so dishonestly carelessly left out makes all the difference in the world to the meaning.
So, you certainly are posting "untruths" - if only by careless omission.
And I did no say that you were "a liar". You are a liar only if you are knowingly posting "untruths

PS I'm still waiting for all this undeniable evidence that proves that the earth is flat.
     and I have no idea what "indocrinated" even means!
     The meaning of "indocrinated" seems to be that it's how "ignerants" spell "indoctrinated".

     Now, what about actually present evidence and arguments rather than perpetual "Argumentum ad Hominem".

 

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Arealhumanbeing

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #136 on: May 18, 2017, 05:19:57 PM »
Double entendre.

You should be more precise with your word usage.

But I know you wont because youre a misleading, paid shill.

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rabinoz

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #137 on: May 19, 2017, 05:01:04 AM »
Double entendre.

You should be more precise with your word usage.

But I know you wont because youre a misleading, paid shill.
You should learn some reading comprehension, but I am never intentionally misleading.
If, however, you insist that I am paid to post here,
then you are a proven liar because I have never been paid.
And you have no evidence that I have lied, but then you don't seem to bother about evidence.

Still, I guess that it's your childish style: always attack the messenger, never the message.

Bye bye, kiddo!

Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #138 on: May 20, 2017, 12:31:10 AM »
What about the telemetry tapes from all of the Apollo missions that weren't erased?  Don't they count for anything?
Sure !
But that doesn't take away from any rational explaination about HOW most of it got lost.

"Most" of the Apollo telemetry got lost? Nope.

The type of tape they were using to record mission telemetry became unavailable, so some of the original tapes from earlier missions were reused for later missions after the data on them was archived. This became a "thing" when interest in improving the quality of the scan conversion of the Apollo 11 moonwalk video was investigated, and the original tapes containing the unconverted analog video were found to have been reused. It's unfortunate that only the best-available (at the time) scan converted standard video was archived instead of the slow-scan original, but preserving the former was much more straightforward since equipment to do so was readily available, unlike the custom format, and, since we were going back soon anyway, that video was treated as kind of an afterthought.

Quote
It is like claiming i have a huge collection of extremely rare comic books, that got lost during a move to another place and then claiming these things do happen once in a while. ::)

Zillions of comic books were routinely discarded and destroyed soon after they were published because they weren't valuable at the time. Some are kept for a while, but fewer (or, in some cases, none) are preserved until they become rare and valuable. "I had that whole collection when I was a kid, but mom tossed it after I moved off to college. Now, 40 years later, those would have been worth thousands."  It happens. A lot. Which is why a few become rare and those, when recognized, are treated accordingly.

Actually, I have no problem believing that troves of rare comic books are sometimes discarded because their value at the time isn't recognized. That's the sort of thing people comb estate sales for.

In the case of the Apollo telemetry tapes, there wasn't a single working deck that could read them at the time that the search for the original tapes was being made earlier this century, and hadn't been for some time. One that could potentially be restored had been located in a museum, so there was hope. If there's nothing to read the tapes on, the tapes are of little to no value, even presuming the tape itself hadn't deteriorated too much to be read. This was especially true since almost all the data on them had already been adequately transcribed. Unfortunately, the transcription quality for the Apollo-11 live surface video, deemed adequate at the time, was not as good as it could have been done 40 years later.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes-idUSTRE56F5MK20090720
''NASA admitted in 2006 that no one could find the original video recordings of the July 20, 1969, landing.''

''The good news is he found where they went. The bad news is they were part of a batch of 200,000 tapes that were degaussed -- magnetically erased -- and re-used to save money.''

Knowing the moonhoax debate was out there from the very start, the original high quality video of the first moonlandings could contain the most obvious clues for a staged Apollo moonlanding.
The original Apollo 11 recordings were unique with that in mind.
Almost all moonhoax' critcis about a staged moonlanding is focussed on the pre recorded Apollo 11 footage that was shown on a big screen during ''live tv'' worldwide.
Everything should be in a vault preserved for future generations.
The comments about how the ''moonhoax clan'' would react upon such loss, indicates that NASA was very aware about the flaws that hoaxers' claimed to have found in the original Apollo 11 recordings.
With that in mind they should have preserved their Exhibit A in a better place.

My point stands. NASA knew the ''hoaxers'' were especcially dismissing the recordings of the Apollo 11 attempts to ''fake'' the first landing and lost it, knowing it would fuel the debate.

And did you loose some large collection of great value know as such? Do you know someone who did ? (my remarks about loosing a large amount of rare comicbooks with a KNOWN value)
The first moonlanding is, so they say, the greatest achievement of mankind,.......not those missions that followed soon after.
To fail to preserve those original recordings is without explaination.
And yes i can read all ''explainations'' available to explain away how and why it did happen.....but none of them make sense whatsoever, only from a cover up perspective.
''To safe money'' ?
If you compare the total budget of NASA in the lean times of NASA,  recording over the greatest achievement of mankind is insane.
What amount of money was saved by doing so ?
I can think of hundreds of far more irrelevant cuts to save way more money.....or are you implying they did cut each and every corner untill even ''free space'' and ''storage'' became to expensive at one point in NASA's budgetary history ?

Do you also deny the existence of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles then? It's basically the same technology. And if you do, how do you explain the peace that's prevailed over Western Europe since World War 2? If both the US and the Russians knew that they were lying about their missile technology it wouldn't serve as an effective deterrent... and yet...

Also for all the 'deep thinking' you did, that appeared to lead from the truth into ignorance for some reason, you seem to have forgotten that IT WASN'T FREAKING NASA WHO PROVED THE EARTH WAS A SPHERE.

Why does everyone keep forgetting that?

Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #139 on: May 20, 2017, 02:11:29 AM »
Are they joking or is it the truth?

Still waiting for some proof, oh empty headed one.

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Shifter

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #140 on: May 21, 2017, 03:34:39 PM »
Some stars i viewed where supposedly trillions of km away.

You are not actually viewing 'the star'. You are viewing the light it has emitted and because in a vacuum there is nothing to absorb or scatter the light, it travels those trillions of km unimpeded. To be clear, you are not actually viewing the physical object that is the star. Just the light.

In fact, very few stars are actually visible looking at the night sky unaided




Rabinoz = Coronoz. Australias corona virus super spreader

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BrightNextStep

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #141 on: May 22, 2017, 06:24:45 AM »
dutchy, why waste energy on clearly paid trolls? :-\ :-[
What about the telemetry tapes from all of the Apollo missions that weren't erased?  Don't they count for anything?
Sure !
But that doesn't take away from any rational explaination about HOW most of it got lost.
It is like claiming i have a huge collection of extremely rare comic books, that got lost during a move to another place and then claiming these things do happen once in a while. ::)
Confirming İntikam's "Ignore List": FalseProphet,Lonegranger,alpha20mega,rabinoz,
napolean,Hannibaal,crutonius,Bullwinkle, rayzor,spacecowgirl,boydster
add: observer,cartog,boots,

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Shifter

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #142 on: May 22, 2017, 02:32:34 PM »
dutchy, why waste energy on clearly paid trolls? :-\ :-[

If we are clearly paid please provide the evidence. I'm writing this stuff for free so I'm obviously missing out! You seem to know, so please enlighten us so that I can get in on this too!


Rabinoz = Coronoz. Australias corona virus super spreader

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rabinoz

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #143 on: May 22, 2017, 05:26:36 PM »
dutchy, why waste energy on clearly paid trolls? :-\ :-[
Like most flat earth "proofs", simply a statement with no evidence.

Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #144 on: May 22, 2017, 07:27:42 PM »
The company i work for does contract work for NASA. 
I was never paid for the posts i made earlier this year. 
I was encouraged to make posts on this and a few other sights by my manager.
I just assumed she had  weird sense of humor, now i am not so sure.

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hoppy

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #145 on: May 22, 2017, 07:33:16 PM »
dutchy, why waste energy on clearly paid trolls? :-\ :-[

If we are clearly paid please provide the evidence. I'm writing this stuff for free so I'm obviously missing out! You seem to know, so please enlighten us so that I can get in on this too!
This is exactly what a shill would say.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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Shifter

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #146 on: May 22, 2017, 07:43:18 PM »
Maybe a shill would say that. You made the accusation I am a shill. Where is your evidence Because what I said can also be said by non shills.

So you must based on your accusations

Know where I work
What I do
Who pays me

Otherwise, like most of what you say, it is nothing but a baseless accusation on something you don't know anything about!

I only wish I got paid for my posts! I could do with some extra coin!


Rabinoz = Coronoz. Australias corona virus super spreader

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Twerp

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2017, 10:13:29 PM »
Hoppy's post is exactly the same as all his other posts regarding shillery. It's just something he does, probably out of habit. Asking him to provide evidence is futile.
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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rabinoz

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Re: Why do so many people confess to being paid to post here!?
« Reply #148 on: May 23, 2017, 12:26:04 AM »
dutchy, why waste energy on clearly paid trolls? :-\ :-[

If we are clearly paid please provide the evidence. I'm writing this stuff for free so I'm obviously missing out! You seem to know, so please enlighten us so that I can get in on this too!
This is exactly what a shill would say.
That's is exactly what an indoctrinated sheepie would say.

But I'm gradually learning this New Flat Earth Dictionary:
Shill: n Anyone who disagrees with :-[ the obvious Truth of the Flat Earth  :P.
  Lie: n Any piece evidence that seems contrary to :-[ the obvious Truth of the Flat Earth  :P.

I guess one lives and learns these  ::) truths  ::)