Pilots

Quote from: rabinoz on March 26, 2017, 08:39:26 PM

Quote from: Arealhumanbeing on March 26, 2017, 07:55:50 PM

In other words, Rab wont believe any pilot that says the Earth is flat.

You did read this bit?

Quote from: rabinoz on March 26, 2017, 06:34:09 PM

Yes, I imagine there might be some FE pilots,

but please find me one reliable flat earth international airline pilot.

There is a big difference between flying light planes or even domestic air routes and

flying non-stop from Johannesburg to/from Sydney and Sydney to/from Santiago.

you show me some flat earth International Airline Pilot and we'll take it from there.

Wouldn't it be compelling if thousands of experts and professionals came out and told us that we were lied to and showed evidence for it?

Thousands? You probably wouldnt even believe a few thousand professionals, disputenone. Youde call them all trolls or liars.

On the other hand youve already stated that you think Earth is flat...
So I know youre just a paid shill here to confuse people, and dissuade them from realizing the truth.

Turns out the earth really is flat.

It would take an extremely large number of people, enough to halt day to day goins ons, to actually convince the average channel 7 believing Joe, that they have been lied to.

Thats my goal.

Thats what im preparing for.

The revolution is coming.

Expect it.

Expect us.

Quote from: Denspressure on March 26, 2017, 12:45:33 PM

Even if nothing was corrected for, automatically or manually, wouldn't natural lift just keep it at a certain height?

Yes.

Is this true? With a blindfolded and earplugged pilot, no autopilot or copilot, and no radio, is there no substantial risk of the plane smashing into the ground when the pilot thinks they're cruising?

Is this true? With a blindfolded and earplugged pilot, no autopilot or copilot, and no radio, is there no substantial risk of the plane smashing into the ground when the pilot thinks they're cruising?

You mean like this?
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

Quote from: itsatorus on March 27, 2017, 09:59:32 PM

Is this true? With a blindfolded and earplugged pilot, no autopilot or copilot, and no radio, is there no substantial risk of the plane smashing into the ground when the pilot thinks they're cruising?

You mean like this?
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

Choice.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 27, 2017, 06:21:54 PM

Quote from: Denspressure on March 26, 2017, 12:45:33 PM

Even if nothing was corrected for, automatically or manually, wouldn't natural lift just keep it at a certain height?

Yes.

Is this true? With a blindfolded and earplugged pilot, no autopilot or copilot, and no radio, is there no substantial risk of the plane smashing into the ground when the pilot thinks they're cruising?

One of the first things a pilot learns is how to trim the aircraft to stay at a particular altitude.  I've got some private pilot experience in a Cessna 152 and it is extremely easy to adjust the elevator trim so that the plane will neither climb nor descend.  You can then take your hands off the controls and just let the plane fly.  There is always risk though.  If the trim is off just a bit you may slowly descend and if you aren't watching the instruments you may not notice.

The pilots who have access to the type of aircrafts capable of achieving an earth shape definitive veiw would are very few in number.
Any exhibiting a lack of rock ball doctrine belief would not be in the job.
Vast majority of aircraft can't be taken high enough, and altitude is the measurement of an object's distance from the ground (or sea).
Due to the constant, or at least regular, adjustment of altitude; the adherence to a flat or curved surface would require the same pilot input. Or automated pilot input.

The pilots who have access to the type of aircrafts capable of achieving an earth shape definitive veiw would are very few in number.
Any exhibiting a lack of rock ball doctrine belief would not be in the job.
Vast majority of aircraft can't be taken high enough, and altitude is the measurement of an object's distance from the ground (or sea).
Due to the constant, or at least regular, adjustment of altitude; the adherence to a flat or curved surface would require the same pilot input. Or automated pilot input.

Pilots before GPS had to navigate by ground-based nav aids, such as DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) and the NDB (Non-Directional (radio) Beacon.

These were not available on long international flights. In the 1940s Decca and Loran were introduced, but these only covered limited regions.

So many international flights had to rely on celestial navigation, not an easy job in a fast moving and unsteady plane.

Back in Kingsmith Smith's time none of those aids was available and it was celestial navigation and dead reckoning all the way.
This is Kingsford Smith's route from USA to Australia in 1928.
Just give a thought to navigating over that route from Oakland, CA to Brisbane, QLD in 1928, landing only at Hawaii, Fiji and Brisbane.
If you want to see the actual charts used in the Southern Cross, at least some are available online at the Australian National Library.

The distances and directions on the flat earth map ( Wot map  ) are quite different and with the wrong map you are lost!

The paths of the sun, moon, planets on the  Flat Earth model we have are quite different from on the globe.
Besides as yet there is no "official flat earth map", let alone one that could be used for the navigation of ships and planes.

Pilots are taught early on straight and level flight. In the stuff I have read the manuals never mention correcting for earth curvature, strange huh?

https://www.americanflyers.net/aviationlibrary/instrument_flying_handbook/chapter_5.htm

Pilots are taught early on straight and level flight. In the stuff I have read the manuals never mention correcting for earth curvature, strange huh?

https://www.americanflyers.net/aviationlibrary/instrument_flying_handbook/chapter_5.htm

Then take a look at:
What sort of planes do you fly, hoppy, Boeing 747a or 777s? Wolfie6020 flies a Bombardier Global Express XRS.

I wonder if anyone has ever read one of the rab creatures hastily cobbled together dirge of cobblers?
So repellent.

Quote from: disputeone on December 24, 2016, 05:08:40 PM

Turns out the earth really is flat.

It would take an extremely large number of people, enough to halt day to day goins ons, to actually convince the average channel 7 believing Joe, that they have been lied to.

Thats my goal.

Thats what im preparing for.

The revolution is coming.

Expect it.

Expect us.

What a waste of a human being. Change your name to "Arealwaster".  You'd be better off trying to find an answer for "What is life?", at least you'd get a definite answer to that one.

Quote from: hoppy on March 28, 2017, 07:37:00 PM

Pilots are taught early on straight and level flight. In the stuff I have read the manuals never mention correcting for earth curvature, strange huh?

https://www.americanflyers.net/aviationlibrary/instrument_flying_handbook/chapter_5.htm

Have you heard that "level flight" is at a constant "pressure altitude"? Read up on what the instruments do.

Then take a look at:

Do aircraft pitch down to follow the curvature of the Earth? Wolfie6020

I suppose you know more than an international airline pilot about flying planes. 

What sort of planes do you fly, hoppy, Boeing 747a or 777s? Wolfie6020 flies A380s!

I don't believe Wolfie6020 is a pilot. Planes do not pitch down to follow curvature. The aircraft's pitch is set according to whether it needs to descend, climb or maintain level flight.

For level flight, it maintains a set altitude. That's all it needs to do. E.g. 36000 feet is 36000 wherever you are on the earth.

In simple terms, draw a circle. Then draw outside of that circle maintaining exactly 1cm gap as you go round. If your only instruction is to maintain a precise 1cm gap as you draw, you will see the curve will take care of itself.

I am a qualified private pilot. My training, ground school, navigation, meteorology etc all describe a globe earth. I personally know and socialise with commercial airline pilots who belong to and teach at my flying club. Nobody I know in aviation believes FE.

I have called out a number of fake FE pilots calmly and factually on YouTube and had my comments deleted.

If the earth were flat, pilots would know. If these pilots know, I believe they would be here talking about it. They are not.

So if you are pilot and believe in FE please speak. Be prepared to discuss how the FE model deviates from everything you have been taught in your training and career and how you have practically made FE work during your flights.

Pilots are taught early on straight and level flight. In the stuff I have read the manuals never mention correcting for earth curvature, strange huh?

https://www.americanflyers.net/aviationlibrary/instrument_flying_handbook/chapter_5.htm

nor should they have to.  They fly at a constant altitude regardless.  As the direction to down changes, the aircraft self-adjusts to have lift oppose gravity.  To do otherwise would require pilot input.

I don't believe Wolfie6020 is a pilot. Planes do not pitch down to follow curvature. The aircraft's pitch is set according to whether it needs to descend, climb or maintain level flight.

For level flight, it maintains a set altitude. That's all it needs to do. E.g. 36000 feet is 36000 wherever you are on the earth.

I am sure Wolfie6020 is a pilot, no-one who was not at least part of the flight crew would have so many photos and videos from the cockpit of  a Bombardier Global Express XRS in the air.

I think that his whole point is that the plane does "pitch down". It has to to follow the earth.
But it is such a minute amount (1° every 8 minutes) that it is "swallowed up" in the slight corrections for changes in conditions
and the pilot is simply not aware of it.

I don't think that you and he differ in what actually is happening, just in the way of explaining it.

The pilots who have access to the type of aircrafts capable of achieving an earth shape definitive veiw would are very few in number.
Any exhibiting a lack of rock ball doctrine belief would not be in the job.
Vast majority of aircraft can't be taken high enough, and altitude is the measurement of an object's distance from the ground (or sea).
Due to the constant, or at least regular, adjustment of altitude; the adherence to a flat or curved surface would require the same pilot input. Or automated pilot input.

You don't need any special "aircrafts capable of achieving an earth shape definitive veiw".

I am not talking about seeing curvature, but about route distances.

I posted this material with maps earlier in this thread. If you ignored it, that's not my fault.

The non-stop direct flight from Sydney to Santiago simply would not be possible on the usual flat earth map.
The great circle route on the Globe is about 11,400 km.
The distance on the flat earth map is about 25,400 km - far outside the range of the aircraft used.

For the QANTAS flight QFA27 on 10/May/2016 it was reported that:
the shortest distance was 11,353 km, the actual distance flown  11,488 km and the flight time was 12 hrs 12 mins.
The routes that they fly would be impossible on a flat earth.

Now Mr Antirockballtheorist, if you disagree with these distances, please tell me what the distance from Sydney to Santiago should be.

Quote from: kennykirklan on March 29, 2017, 03:59:40 AM

I don't believe Wolfie6020 is a pilot. Planes do not pitch down to follow curvature. The aircraft's pitch is set according to whether it needs to descend, climb or maintain level flight.

For level flight, it maintains a set altitude. That's all it needs to do. E.g. 36000 feet is 36000 wherever you are on the earth.

I am sure Wolfie6020 is a pilot, no-one who was not at least part of the flight crew would have so many photos and videos from the flight-deck of Airbus A380s in the air.

I think that his whole point is that the plane does "pitch down". It has to to follow the earth.
But it is such a minute amount (1° every 8 minutes) that it is "swallowed up" in the slight corrections for changes in conditions
and the pilot is simply not aware of it.

I don't think that you and he differ in what actually is happening, just in the way of explaining it.

A plane would never pitch down to follow curve. He rightly says there are many corrections made in relation to air pressure changes etc. But none of those corrections will be for curve. It's irrelevant on the size and scale of planes - in level flight they are perpendicular to the ground.

They will track the curve simply by maintaining a given height.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 27, 2017, 06:21:54 PM

Quote from: Denspressure on March 26, 2017, 12:45:33 PM

Even if nothing was corrected for, automatically or manually, wouldn't natural lift just keep it at a certain height?

Yes.

Is this true? With a blindfolded and earplugged pilot, no autopilot or copilot, and no radio, is there no substantial risk of the plane smashing into the ground when the pilot thinks they're cruising?

Aeroperu flight 603 had essentially the situation you are describing and it crashed into the ocean killing all crew and passengers.

They were flying in the dark over the ocean, they could not see the horizon or the ground. Their altimeter malfunctioned, due to a piece of tape left over part of the pitot-static system, leaving them unable to determine how high they were. They eventually lost altitude until they impacted the ocean.

This was with them having radio contact with the ground.

Quote from: rabinoz on March 28, 2017, 07:56:02 PM

Quote from: hoppy on March 28, 2017, 07:37:00 PM

Pilots are taught early on straight and level flight. In the stuff I have read the manuals never mention correcting for earth curvature, strange huh?

https://www.americanflyers.net/aviationlibrary/instrument_flying_handbook/chapter_5.htm

Have you heard that "level flight" is at a constant "pressure altitude"? Read up on what the instruments do.

Then take a look at:

Do aircraft pitch down to follow the curvature of the Earth? Wolfie6020

I suppose you know more than an international airline pilot about flying planes. 

What sort of planes do you fly, hoppy, Boeing 747a or 777s? Wolfie6020 flies A380s!

I don't believe Wolfie6020 is a pilot. Planes do not pitch down to follow curvature. The aircraft's pitch is set according to whether it needs to descend, climb or maintain level flight.

For level flight, it maintains a set altitude. That's all it needs to do. E.g. 36000 feet is 36000 wherever you are on the earth.

In simple terms, draw a circle. Then draw outside of that circle maintaining exactly 1cm gap as you go round. If your only instruction is to maintain a precise 1cm gap as you draw, you will see the curve will take care of itself.

I am a qualified private pilot. My training, ground school, navigation, meteorology etc all describe a globe earth. I personally know and socialise with commercial airline pilots who belong to and teach at my flying club. Nobody I know in aviation believes FE.

I have called out a number of fake FE pilots calmly and factually on YouTube and had my comments deleted.

If the earth were flat, pilots would know. If these pilots know, I believe they would be here talking about it. They are not.

So if you are pilot and believe in FE please speak. Be prepared to discuss how the FE model deviates from everything you have been taught in your training and career and how you have practically made FE work during your flights.

Hi, I was previously unaware of this conversation which was just pointed out to me. 

We are saying the same thing.   I 100% agree we just need to fly at a constant altitude to follow the curvature of the Earth.  There is no pitch down required with respect to the horizon.

However there is an attitude change with respect to the starting position in real space but the pilot will never notice this as it matches the curvautre of the Earth as you fly around the Globe.

The attitude change is not relative to the Horizon. It is relative to the original starting position.  I actually fly a Global Express XRS Corporate jet and have made several follow ups to my original video that expand on it and I even use a similar example to your circle analogy.

The Earth is absolutely not flat.  Having circumnavigated it many times, both ways and both hemispheres what I do in the GLEX would never work on any Flat Earth.

Hope that clears things up. 

I’ve been a casual reader of this site for a few years and I’ve been a commercial pilot for 30 years. I don’t fly an airliner but I do fly a long range biz jet worldwide. My interest in the Flat Earth site forums is merely out of curiosity. I’m not interested in mocking the Flat Earthers, we believe what we like to believe, but I am concerned with the lack of critical thinking skills of the Flat Earth enthusiasts.

I understand that my experience and perspective of earth is unique and most folks don’t see the physical world from my view. My profession uses technology (and maps) designed to work with a round earth model. And it all works very predictably.

In a typical day at work a round earth is confirmed and a flat earth is debunked. GPS navigation uses satellites. Flat earthers say there are no satellites. FEs say  GPS works from ground based sites. I’ve never seen these....but I have seen satellites. Distances between points and time to travel in both Northern and Southern Hemispheres is predictable. The Flat Earth map does not support this. At altitude the sun sets 15 minutes after it sets at ground level. How is that explained on a Flat Earth?  Terminator, Earth’s shadow, is clearly seen at altitude during sunset. There would be no Earth shadow on a flat earth.

I could go on and on but I won’t. I’m merely putting my pilot’s perspective into the discussion.

Quote from: Denspressure on March 26, 2017, 11:51:57 AM

Pilots do not have to set any compensation for the curve, that is strange.

Pilots set altitude and heading. Altitude is the the height directly beneath the aircraft. So if for example it is set at 36000 feet, the by product of this is that the plane will track curvature as part of maintaining the selected height.

This is incorrect.  Airplanes generally measure air pressure to determine altitude.  Also, the pitch required for "level flight" is different on every plane. 

The whole argument that "planes always fly level" or "pilots don't have to correct for the shape of the earth" is just based on complete ignorance of how airplanes work.

In other words, Rab wont believe any pilot that says the Earth is flat.

Any pilot that claims the earth is flat is either confusing Flight Simulator X with reality, or is a complete liar.

Pilots are taught early on straight and level flight. In the stuff I have read the manuals never mention correcting for earth curvature, strange huh?

https://www.americanflyers.net/aviationlibrary/instrument_flying_handbook/chapter_5.htm

The reason pilots use nautical miles to navigate is because that unit of measurement accounts for the curvature of the earth.  You don't have to "correct for curvature" during "level flight".

It would seem maybe you should either do more reading or work on your reading comprehension skills.

There’s now been two pilots with their take on things. I’d like to hear from FE how they are false, or in error.

There’s now been two pilots with their take on things. I’d like to hear from FE how they are false, or in error.

Preferably from some flat-earth international airline pilots. Wolfie6020 tried to find some . . . . crickets!

Quote from: rvlvr on September 30, 2018, 12:33:38 AM

There’s now been two pilots with their take on things. I’d like to hear from FE how they are false, or in error.

Preferably from some flat-earth international airline pilots. Wolfie6020 tried to find some . . . . crickets!

I don't want to derail the topic but i know 'your' next step the moment 'flatearth pilots' would come forward.
We have seen it before you know...,
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/
Hundreds of airline pilots claiming 9/11 couldn't possibly carried out by some amature muslim fanatics.

It seems that the media, scientific community simply ignores the 9/11 truth pilots.

Do you really think that any flatearth pilot would make a difference ? You would simply move the goalpost, just what happened with 9/11 truth pilots.
And i am sure that all other pilots know what happens when you come forward as a whistleblower about earth's shape !!
They have a great reference with 9/11 truth pilots and 9/11 engineers .
You are simply wasting your time and have to pay a steep price eventually apart from the ridicule and expulsion in your field of expertise.

Most globearth posters are surprisingly simplistic in understanding the real world and how it works the moment someone goes against a popular opinion.

Quote from: rabinoz on September 30, 2018, 12:50:12 AM

Quote from: rvlvr on September 30, 2018, 12:33:38 AM

There’s now been two pilots with their take on things. I’d like to hear from FE how they are false, or in error.

Preferably from some flat-earth international airline pilots. Wolfie6020 tried to find some . . . . crickets!

I don't want to derail the topic but i know 'your' next step the moment 'flatearth pilots' would come forward.

Really? If you didn't want to de-rail this topic you could and should have made your own thread on that very topic.
I'm sure you would get plenty of support from disputeone (if he's not banned), Heiwa and others.
It's one side of 9/11 that I haven't looked into much.

We have seen it before you know...,
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/
Hundreds of airline pilots claiming 9/11 couldn't possibly carried out by some amature muslim fanatics.

But what is to say that they were really "amateur muslim fanatics".
They could easily have been been trained pilots who'd done conversion courses on simulators in their country of origin.
And all they needed in USA was familiarity with local conditions - just guessin' mind you.

It seems that the media, scientific community simply ignores the 9/11 truth pilots.

Ignores or have they considered the evidence and dismissed it? - just guessin' mind you.

Do you really think that any flatearth pilot would make a difference ? You would simply move the goalpost, just what happened with 9/11 truth pilots.
And i am sure that all other pilots know what happens when you come forward as a whistleblower about earth's shape !!
They have a great reference with 9/11 truth pilots and 9/11 engineers.

International pilots know for a fact that:
the flights between Johannesburg, South Africa, and both Perth and Sydney, Australia, and between Sydney, Australia, and Santiago, Chile would be quite outside the range of the aircraft used.
In addition other routes would different distances on any flat-earth map.
Then there's the final massive problem - there simply is no accurate flat earth map! The site
TFES.org has six, I think, flat earth maps with at least three distinctly different and that's excluding JRowe's "Dual Earth" model.

Dutchy, the idea of the flat-earth being taken seriously by other than conspiracy theorist flat-earthers  is nothing short of laughable!

You are simply wasting your time and have to pay a steep price eventually apart from the ridicule and expulsion in your field of expertise.

Posting quite unfounded guesses is what you flat-earthers are so expert at.
I guess you'll have to be because there is so little supporting you claims that you are forced to pretend all contrary is faked and "part of this grand conspiracy" started by NASA 2500 years so.

Most globearth posters are surprisingly simplistic in understanding the real world and how it works the moment someone goes against a popular opinion.

You don't seem to have any idea of how the physical world, including the shape and motions of the earth,  works.
How the political system works is a completely different and totally unrelated question.

But if you want to create a thread on 9/11 go for it and I'm sure you'll get a good response from here.

Hundreds of airline pilots claiming 9/11 couldn't possibly carried out by some amature muslim fanatics.

And nearly zero pilots claiming the earth is flat.

Quote from: dutchy on September 30, 2018, 02:20:26 AM

Hundreds of airline pilots claiming 9/11 couldn't possibly carried out by some amature muslim fanatics.

And nearly zero pilots claiming the earth is flat.

Not "nearly zero" - no qualified pilot can think the earth is flat, they simply wouldn't be able to do their job as none of their training or equipment would work on anything other than a globe.

Quote from: BlueMarble on September 30, 2018, 06:39:48 AM

Quote from: dutchy on September 30, 2018, 02:20:26 AM

Hundreds of airline pilots claiming 9/11 couldn't possibly carried out by some amature muslim fanatics.

And nearly zero pilots claiming the earth is flat.

Not "nearly zero" - no qualified pilot can think the earth is flat, they simply wouldn't be able to do their job as none of their training or equipment would work on anything other than a globe.

This seems to be written as though the authors never question that the earth could be anything other than a rotating Globe:This post by Stash shows some of the relevant diagrams describing latitude/longitude and the wind systems caused by the rotating earth: I'm new « Reply #152 on: October 05, 2018, 03:23:49 AM »

[1] A word of caution. That "Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, U.S. Department of Transportation FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION Flight Standards Service 2016" is a long PDF file.

To answer the OP, yes there are FE pilots. 

Please be patient and they will comment when becoming aware of the thread.

Just taking it a bit farther I feel reasonably certainly you would find no FE pilots in Naval Aviation.