Does a so called space rocket accelerate?

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 10:16:07 AM

I'd actually like you and your little crew to go with the consensus that I didn't experiment and that way you can harp on and harp on about it all being crap.

Deal.

Great, because all I want are honest people and you do not fit that category.

Quote from: onebigmonkey on March 22, 2017, 10:42:14 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 10:16:07 AM

I'd actually like you and your little crew to go with the consensus that I didn't experiment and that way you can harp on and harp on about it all being crap.

Deal.

Great, because all I want are honest people and you do not fit that category.

Harsh, what make you think Onebigmonkey lied about something?

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 11:17:07 AM

Quote from: onebigmonkey on March 22, 2017, 10:42:14 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 10:16:07 AM

I'd actually like you and your little crew to go with the consensus that I didn't experiment and that way you can harp on and harp on about it all being crap.

Deal.

Great, because all I want are honest people and you do not fit that category.

Harsh, what make you think Onebigmonkey lied about something?

Seeing as I haven't lied about carrying out an experiment with a centrifuge in a vacuum, I also consider it harsh.

If you want to deal with honest people sceppy, you'll have to stop talking to yourself.

Quote from: Denspressure on March 22, 2017, 11:41:35 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 11:17:07 AM

Quote from: onebigmonkey on March 22, 2017, 10:42:14 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 10:16:07 AM

I'd actually like you and your little crew to go with the consensus that I didn't experiment and that way you can harp on and harp on about it all being crap.

Deal.

Great, because all I want are honest people and you do not fit that category.

Harsh, what make you think Onebigmonkey lied about something?

Seeing as I haven't lied about carrying out an experiment with a centrifuge in a vacuum, I also consider it harsh.

If you want to deal with honest people sceppy, you'll have to stop talking to yourself.

I am not Sceppi... this should be pretty clear. Unlike him I:
1. Have a sense of humor.
2. Know stuff about the Apollo program (To the point that I put the Apollo 16 UVC images online.)

Quote from: hoppy on March 21, 2017, 09:57:17 PM

Quote from: sokarul on March 21, 2017, 11:34:46 AM

Quote from: hoppy on March 20, 2017, 11:46:38 PM

Quote from: sokarul on March 20, 2017, 08:34:34 PM

That doesn't make sense. How much pressure do you think is created?
Maybe explain why store bought water rockets go higher with water in them instead of just air.

Does the water create a high pressure area?

Yes it does make sense, the nerd proved it. When the high pressure at the nozzle is evacuated the doesn't move. Otherwise it will move.

Apparently water does create a higher pressure when hitting air, rather than air hitting air.

I'm still looking for how the force is transferred.

The same way it is transferred when a ballon flies around the room. High pressure at the nozzle.

So you are saying the high pressure creates wind and wind pushes everything?

I am saying high pressure is created and pushes the balloon, the car and rockets.

So wind, which is high pressure moving to low pressure. How does that apply a strong enough and fast enough force?

So wind, which is high pressure moving to low pressure. How does that apply a strong enough and fast enough force?

Ambient air pressure is a strong force. When a balloon or rocket nozzle is expelling, high pressure is both pushing air away into the atmosphere and to the nozzle. This is witnessed by the smoke and dust surrounding a rocket launch. Also witnessed is the non movement of the car when the high pressure is evacuated.

So tell me how we are being accelerated at 1g as we are stood on the ground?

*sigh*

When you put a mass on a spring scale, there is a force (call it whatever you want) that pushes the mass downwards.

That push downwards is the 1g acceleration that you can't seem to grasp.

So tell me how we are being accelerated at 1g as we are stood on the ground?

Here is some more crap for you!

• If we are using the Newtonian Gravitation explanation, we are not "being accelerated at 1g as we are stand on the ground" but
  there is an attractive force between us and the earth equal to our mass x g.
  
  
• If we are using the flat earth UA explanation, then the accelerating earth is accelerating us at 1g.
  
  
• The GR explanation is that we experience a force because the ground is preventing us from following a geodesic in spacetime.
  This is not so different from the UA explanation, other than in UA the earth is simply accelerating in space,
  while in GR the earth does not need to be moving in space, just distorting the spacetime around it.
  

Quote from: sokarul on March 22, 2017, 03:26:04 PM

So wind, which is high pressure moving to low pressure. How does that apply a strong enough and fast enough force?

Ambient air pressure is a strong force. When a balloon or rocket nozzle is expelling, high pressure is both pushing air away into the atmosphere and to the nozzle. This is witnessed by the smoke and dust surrounding a rocket launch. Also witnessed is the non movement of the car when the high pressure is evacuated.

What part of the rocket does it push on?

So tell me how we are being accelerated at 1g as we are stood on the ground?

I think this scepti has signs on both ears saying "Space for Rent"
Visualise it like this:
You are sitting in a car parked against a concrete wall and then giving gas.
You aren't moving an inch...but the power is there. So if someone were to remove that wall we would move.

Another way to see it:
You are standing on the roof of a building of 10m high
Your mass is 80 kilos
Let's say G = 10 m/s^2
Then your potential energy on the rooftop is Ep = M x G X H
If this building suddenly collapsed and we ignore the air resistence you would suddenly experience a force F = M x a = 800N which results in a downwards acceleration.
Your kinetic energy at the bottom would be Ek = 1/2 x M x V^2
Ep = Ek
M x G x H = 1/2 x M x V^2 so
V^2 = 2 x G x H so
V = SQRT (2 x 10 x 10)
So you will hit the ground with 14,14m/s or 51km/h
Result: everybody happy!!!

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 08:50:59 AM

So tell me how we are being accelerated at 1g as we are stood on the ground?

*sigh*

When you put a mass on a spring scale, there is a force (call it whatever you want) that pushes the mass downwards.

That push downwards is the 1g acceleration that you can't seem to grasp.

I grasp a force on any object placed into atmosphere but I'm not talking about that force. I want to know what your 1g force is when you are standing on the ground.

You already harp on about the g-force of accelerating away from the ground or falling to the ground but I want to know what the force is that is pushing?pulling? you into the ground at the 1g you mention.
Tell me how this is working.

Here is some more crap for you!

If we are using the Newtonian Gravitation explanation, we are not "being accelerated at 1g as we are stand on the ground" but
there is an attractive force between us and the earth equal to our mass x g.

The same force that attracts helium balloons at 1g to the Earth?

If we are using the flat earth UA explanation, then the accelerating earth is accelerating us at 1g.

Well we aren't and you know this.

The GR explanation is that we experience a force because the ground is preventing us from following a geodesic in spacetime.

Following a geodesic in space time.
Briefly explain this for me please. No need for silly equations. Just a simple explanation as to what this actually means to a basic natural scientific human being.

This is not so different from the UA explanation, other than in UA the earth is simply accelerating in space,
while in GR the earth does not need to be moving in space, just distorting the spacetime around it.

Just explain the bit in bold. There's no need to mention UA as I don't follow that line of thought. I have my own.

I think this scepti has signs on both ears saying "Space for Rent"

Sit inside that space and see logic and common sense in action. This can aid in diluting your severe naivety and utter gullibility.

Visualise it like this:
You are sitting in a car parked against a concrete wall and then giving gas.
You aren't moving an inch...but the power is there. So if someone were to remove that wall we would move.

My feet are on the floor. A fart won't move me and the floor isn't going to give way, so what is accelerating me at 1g from this point?

Another way to see it:
You are standing on the roof of a building of 10m high
Your mass is 80 kilos
Let's say G = 10 m/s^2
Then your potential energy on the rooftop is Ep = M x G X H
If this building suddenly collapsed and we ignore the air resistence you would suddenly experience a force F = M x a = 800N which results in a downwards acceleration.
Your kinetic energy at the bottom would be Ek = 1/2 x M x V^2
Ep = Ek
M x G x H = 1/2 x M x V^2 so
V^2 = 2 x G x H so
V = SQRT (2 x 10 x 10)
So you will hit the ground with 14,14m/s or 51km/h
Result: everybody happy!!!

Use the bolded bit for the 9/11 topic about building collapses. Rayzor might learn something about what you're talking about.
Other than that, it's not meaningful for me.

Quote from: markjo on March 22, 2017, 04:13:11 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 08:50:59 AM

So tell me how we are being accelerated at 1g as we are stood on the ground?

*sigh*

When you put a mass on a spring scale, there is a force (call it whatever you want) that pushes the mass downwards.

That push downwards is the 1g acceleration that you can't seem to grasp.

I grasp a force on any object placed into atmosphere but I'm not talking about that force. I want to know what your 1g force is when you are standing on the ground.

You already harp on about the g-force of accelerating away from the ground or falling to the ground but I want to know what the force is that is pushing?pulling? you into the ground at the 1g you mention.
Tell me how this is working.

We have absolutely no idea Scepti, any honest poster will admit this.

My best explanation is gravity feels like an accelerating reference frame.

I brought a scale in to use on my elevator, it measures a much higher weight as the lift takes off but once it is moving at a set speed the weight is constant. As we would predict.

If we accelerate up at 9.8m/s2 then our weight doubles.

Therefore 9.8m/s2 seems like a reference point.

I have absolutely no idea what causes gravity, I've tried reading GR and much prefer Newtons answer as to the cause of gravity.

Which is no answer at all.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 23, 2017, 01:22:35 AM

Quote from: markjo on March 22, 2017, 04:13:11 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 08:50:59 AM

So tell me how we are being accelerated at 1g as we are stood on the ground?

*sigh*

When you put a mass on a spring scale, there is a force (call it whatever you want) that pushes the mass downwards.

That push downwards is the 1g acceleration that you can't seem to grasp.

I grasp a force on any object placed into atmosphere but I'm not talking about that force. I want to know what your 1g force is when you are standing on the ground.

You already harp on about the g-force of accelerating away from the ground or falling to the ground but I want to know what the force is that is pushing?pulling? you into the ground at the 1g you mention.
Tell me how this is working.

We have absolutely no idea Scepti, any honest poster will admit this.

My best explanation is gravity feels like an accelerating reference frame.

I brought a scale in to use on my elevator, it measures a much higher weight as the lift takes off but once it is moving at a set speed the weight is constant. As we would predict.

If we accelerate up at 9.8m/s2 then our weight doubles.

Therefore 9.8m/s2 seems like a reference point.

I have absolutely no idea what causes gravity, I've tried reading GR and much prefer Newtons answer as to the cause of gravity.

Which is no answer at all.

Imagine your lift being virtually wall to wall in terms of miniscule gaps all around it and only held up by the cable with the only exit door being at the very bottom.

Assuming your exit door was super strong and that cable snapped at the top, you know that the elevator would drop fast then slower and slower as it compresses that air inside that shaft.

Ok, now the reason for this is because the air cannot escape fast enough due to there being no way to exhaust the pressure by compression of the lift mass and those inside of it.

However, what is also inside of it, is air pressure and because that lift has dropped, its ceiling forces down that air inside as it dropped down, which compresses that air.
That air hits the floor and bounces back like a wave. A slosh effect which grips the people in that lift and pushes them up.


Do you agree with this and if not, why not.
You see, to figure this out, it also figures out why gravity is crap and also the g-forces not being what we are told they are.

There's a reason why our faces become distorted under so called g-force but the g-force is actually ac-force, or atmospheric compressionforce.

Quote from: disputeone on March 22, 2017, 02:07:58 AM

Scepti this is fascinating.

What size evacuation chamber is needed? I doubt I could make one big enough.

Just a chamber big enough to hold a small round plastic butter tub or tupperware or anything like that, that resembles what we would see as a show ground centrifuge.

Requirements are a small motor with stem to attach the carton to in a centralised strong fix so it can get up to speed without coming apart.
Affix the motor to the bottom of the evacuation chamber so it's secure as a full unit.

Place a few beads or whatever inside the carton and set in motion inside the chamber without evacuation of atmosphere.
You'll notice the beads do exactly as we expect. they are forced to the outer skin of the carton.

However, if it's not atmospheric pressure doing this, then the easiest way to find out is to evacuate the chamber and set it in motion again and see what happens.

I'll tell you what happens.
What happens is, the beads start to dance about and eventually bounce out of the carton, because there's no atmosphere to push enough force on them to keep them pressed up against the outer skin.

Try it yourself.
It proves that atmospheric pressure acts upon a centrifuge and not what the bullshitters tell us.

I do not believe that you would do an experiment like this without some video evidence, so just post the video.

It's that simple. If you didn't record it, I suggest that you repeat it and record it.

Thought experiments are fine, but are meaningless till performed in real life.

Quote from: markjo on March 22, 2017, 04:13:11 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2017, 08:50:59 AM

So tell me how we are being accelerated at 1g as we are stood on the ground?

*sigh*

When you put a mass on a spring scale, there is a force (call it whatever you want) that pushes the mass downwards.

That push downwards is the 1g acceleration that you can't seem to grasp.

I grasp a force on any object placed into atmosphere but I'm not talking about that force. I want to know what your 1g force is when you are standing on the ground.

You already harp on about the g-force of accelerating away from the ground or falling to the ground but I want to know what the force is that is pushing?pulling? you into the ground at the 1g you mention.
Tell me how this is working.

I give up.  If you don't understand the difference between mass and weight, then I don't suppose that you'll be able to understand that gravity/denpressure/ua/whatever doesn't stop acting on you just because you aren't moving.

If you want to deal with honest people sceppy, you'll have to stop talking to yourself.

I used to think denspressure was scepti, however, at this point I don't find that the case for reasons I cannot state.

I could be wrong, but I feel fairly confident in my opinion.

Quote from: onebigmonkey on March 22, 2017, 11:50:13 AM

If you want to deal with honest people sceppy, you'll have to stop talking to yourself.

I used to think denspressure was scepti, however, at this point I don't find that the case for reasons I cannot state.

I could be wrong, but I feel fairly confident in my opinion.

For the record, although I was responding to denspressure I was commenting on sceptictank's opinion of me in his post, to which denspressure referred.

I wasn't accusing denspressure of being his alt.

For the record, although I was responding to denspressure I was commenting on sceptictank's opinion of me in his post, to which denspressure referred.

I wasn't accusing denspressure of being his alt.

Ah, gotcha

I do not believe that you would do an experiment like this without some video evidence, so just post the video.

It's that simple. If you didn't record it, I suggest that you repeat it and record it.

Thought experiments are fine, but are meaningless till performed in real life.

The supposed scientist that is Rabinoz does not have any equipment to do any tests for himself and worries about what I do or don't do.

Try the stuff yourself if you are a honest person and want to find out truth from fiction.
Physically try out the stuff that your text books say doesn't happen.

Quote from: rabinoz on March 23, 2017, 04:12:07 AM

I do not believe that you would do an experiment like this without some video evidence, so just post the video.

It's that simple. If you didn't record it, I suggest that you repeat it and record it.

Thought experiments are fine, but are meaningless till performed in real life.

The supposed scientist that is Rabinoz does not have any equipment to do any tests for himself and worries about what I do or don't do.

Try the stuff yourself if you are a honest person and want to find out truth from fiction.
Physically try out the stuff that your text books say doesn't happen.

I'm happy to admit that I do not have the so-called equipment to do this so-called test.

You claim to have it, so by all means do demonstrate to us what happens.

Unless you lied. Which is dishonest.

I give up.  If you don't understand the difference between mass and weight, then I don't suppose that you'll be able to understand that gravity/denpressure/ua/whatever doesn't stop acting on you just because you aren't moving.

I've told you many times about mass and weight. I've told you my thoughts on it all, so don't be coming that just because it doesn't fit your unicorn stories told to you by half millenia ago story tellers.

Now all you have to do is be honest. Just say that you have no clue why in the hell a person is said to be accelerating at 1g. Just admit you do not know.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 23, 2017, 11:34:03 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on March 23, 2017, 04:12:07 AM

I do not believe that you would do an experiment like this without some video evidence, so just post the video.

It's that simple. If you didn't record it, I suggest that you repeat it and record it.

Thought experiments are fine, but are meaningless till performed in real life.

The supposed scientist that is Rabinoz does not have any equipment to do any tests for himself and worries about what I do or don't do.

Try the stuff yourself if you are a honest person and want to find out truth from fiction.
Physically try out the stuff that your text books say doesn't happen.

I'm happy to admit that I do not have the so-called equipment to do this so-called test.

You claim to have it, so by all means do demonstrate to us what happens.

Unless you lied. Which is dishonest.

How come nobody has a bell jar or something similar?
You're all genius scientists aren't you?

You lot apparently know everything about everything and yet know nothing when it comes down to the physical aspects.

I'm giving you experiments on a plate. I'm trying to help you people. I'm trying to show you the truth by asking you to do the tests as I explain them.
It's up to you lot to do something for yourselves. You do not need to let me know about it if you don't want to. Just do the tests for yourselves and stop asking me for proof.

I know what I know. Try and know what you know instead of a reliance of equations that equate fantasy models.

Quote from: onebigmonkey on March 23, 2017, 11:47:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 23, 2017, 11:34:03 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on March 23, 2017, 04:12:07 AM

I do not believe that you would do an experiment like this without some video evidence, so just post the video.

It's that simple. If you didn't record it, I suggest that you repeat it and record it.

Thought experiments are fine, but are meaningless till performed in real life.

The supposed scientist that is Rabinoz does not have any equipment to do any tests for himself and worries about what I do or don't do.

Try the stuff yourself if you are a honest person and want to find out truth from fiction.
Physically try out the stuff that your text books say doesn't happen.

I'm happy to admit that I do not have the so-called equipment to do this so-called test.

You claim to have it, so by all means do demonstrate to us what happens.

Unless you lied. Which is dishonest.

How come nobody has a bell jar or something similar?
You're all genius scientists aren't you?

You lot apparently know everything about everything and yet know nothing when it comes down to the physical aspects.

I'm giving you experiments on a plate. I'm trying to help you people. I'm trying to show you the truth by asking you to do the tests as I explain them.
It's up to you lot to do something for yourselves. You do not need to let me know about it if you don't want to. Just do the tests for yourselves and stop asking me for proof.

I know what I know. Try and know what you know instead of a reliance of equations that equate fantasy models.

I tried it and the behaviour doesn't change as pressure goes down. The little spheres always moved towards the exterior of the spinning container. Sorry but your claim was not confirmed. I checked the vacuum pump and it was working fine, it's used every day to build vacuum capacitors. The motor spinned at around 100 rpm remotely controlled.

I'm very sorry. Perhaps you tried in a different setup.

Quote from: onebigmonkey on March 23, 2017, 11:47:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 23, 2017, 11:34:03 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on March 23, 2017, 04:12:07 AM

I do not believe that you would do an experiment like this without some video evidence, so just post the video.

It's that simple. If you didn't record it, I suggest that you repeat it and record it.

Thought experiments are fine, but are meaningless till performed in real life.

The supposed scientist that is Rabinoz does not have any equipment to do any tests for himself and worries about what I do or don't do.

Try the stuff yourself if you are a honest person and want to find out truth from fiction.
Physically try out the stuff that your text books say doesn't happen.

I'm happy to admit that I do not have the so-called equipment to do this so-called test.

You claim to have it, so by all means do demonstrate to us what happens.

Unless you lied. Which is dishonest.

How come nobody has a bell jar or something similar?
You're all genius scientists aren't you?

You lot apparently know everything about everything and yet know nothing when it comes down to the physical aspects.

I'm giving you experiments on a plate. I'm trying to help you people. I'm trying to show you the truth by asking you to do the tests as I explain them.
It's up to you lot to do something for yourselves. You do not need to let me know about it if you don't want to. Just do the tests for yourselves and stop asking me for proof.

I know what I know. Try and know what you know instead of a reliance of equations that equate fantasy models.

Scepti. You claim that some experiments will work in some weird ways, you are 100% certain that they do so, yet you have not performed a single of those experiments. Now answer me:

Who lives in a fairy world?

Quote from: markjo on March 23, 2017, 06:37:48 AM

I give up.  If you don't understand the difference between mass and weight, then I don't suppose that you'll be able to understand that gravity/denpressure/ua/whatever doesn't stop acting on you just because you aren't moving.

I've told you many times about mass and weight. I've told you my thoughts on it all, so don't be coming that just because it doesn't fit your unicorn stories told to you by half millenia ago story tellers.

Now all you have to do is be honest. Just say that you have no clue why in the hell a person is said to be accelerating at 1g. Just admit you do not know.

I didn't say that the person was accelerating at 1g.  I said that the person is under 1g of acceleration.  It really is a subtle difference in wording, but the difference is significant.

Quote from: onebigmonkey on March 23, 2017, 11:47:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 23, 2017, 11:34:03 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on March 23, 2017, 04:12:07 AM

I do not believe that you would do an experiment like this without some video evidence, so just post the video.

It's that simple. If you didn't record it, I suggest that you repeat it and record it.

Thought experiments are fine, but are meaningless till performed in real life.

The supposed scientist that is Rabinoz does not have any equipment to do any tests for himself and worries about what I do or don't do.

Try the stuff yourself if you are a honest person and want to find out truth from fiction.
Physically try out the stuff that your text books say doesn't happen.

I'm happy to admit that I do not have the so-called equipment to do this so-called test.

You claim to have it, so by all means do demonstrate to us what happens.

Unless you lied. Which is dishonest.

How come nobody has a bell jar or something similar?
You're all genius scientists aren't you?

You lot apparently know everything about everything and yet know nothing when it comes down to the physical aspects.

I'm giving you experiments on a plate. I'm trying to help you people. I'm trying to show you the truth by asking you to do the tests as I explain them.
It's up to you lot to do something for yourselves. You do not need to let me know about it if you don't want to. Just do the tests for yourselves and stop asking me for proof.

I know what I know. Try and know what you know instead of a reliance of equations that equate fantasy models.

So you lied.

I tried it and the behaviour doesn't change as pressure goes down. The little spheres always moved towards the exterior of the spinning container. Sorry but your claim was not confirmed. I checked the vacuum pump and it was working fine, it's used every day to build vacuum capacitors. The motor spinned at around 100 rpm remotely controlled.

I'm very sorry. Perhaps you tried in a different setup.

No need to apologise. You're only cheating yourself by coming out with this bullshit.
When you manage to get a bell jar and pump or similar to evacuate atmosphere from it and do the test I explained, then you can see for yourself that I'm telloing you the truth.
Do that for you, not for me. Personally I don't give a flying falook about your forum appeal that I'm wrong.

There's genuine people on here and at some stage some will do the tests I put forward.
Even the stead fast anti flat Earth globalists will see the truth in some cases.
People like you will probably still prefer to be blind and deaf to anything that is put forward to you, unless it's told to you by the man/woman in the lab coat or the book of fiction that is placed on the real science shelves.