Heiwas lack of understanding in everything and his obsession with poop

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Kami

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Hey,

as promised, I performed a rough estimate on the mechanics involving a lunar transfer orbit. A more detailed, numerical calculation might follow in the next few days.

Heiwa, this should clear up that it is definitely possible to get to the moon (I admit that the actual orbit around the moon can not be calculated with this method, for this there will be the numerical integrator which might come later) and that you should never boost towards the moon. If you find any errors, please point them out.

Generally I would love if someone double-checked my math, the numbers do make sense but still..

The document can be found at https://www.docdroid.net/nSZ6vXb/moon.pdf.html
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:27:20 PM by Kami »

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Heiwa

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 08:27:33 AM »
Hey,

as promised, I performed a rough estimate on the mechanics involving a lunar transfer orbit. A more detailed, numerical calculation might follow in the next few days.

Heiwa, this should clear up that it is definitely possible to get to the moon (I admit that the actual orbit around the moon can not be calculated with this method, for this there will be the numerical integrator which might come later) and that you should never boost towards the moon. If you find any errors, please point them out.

Generally I would love if someone double-checked my math, the numbers do make sense but still..

The document can be found at https://www.docdroid.net/nSZ6vXb/moon.pdf.html

Hm, so you are in LEO at 200 000 m altitude with speed 7 788 m/s and then you blast off at a certain time to 10 921 m/s to enter a very elliptic orbit around Earth that touches the orbit of the Moon around Earth. But is the Moon there? And what do you do then?

Sorry, it seems you don't understand my suggestion #1, i.e. that "no spacecraft of any kind can carry enough fuel for any trip anywhere in space and return safely to Earth".

My suggestion #2 is that "you cannot predict the trajectory between Earth and the target in space to ensure that the target is there, when you arrive".  It means that you'll miss the target and continue into Universe.

My suggestion #3 is that "you cannot re-enter and land on the rotating Earth after a trip in space". You cannot find the location at the top of the atmosphere above Earth to start any landing attempt and regardless you cannot brake going through the atmosphere, so you are vaporized.

I explain more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm . Very popular! >200 visitors/day. All free! No adverts! Just FUN! It is only rocket science and orbital mechanics. Please do not suggest I lack understanding of them.


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frenat

  • 3601
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 08:32:54 AM »
Hey,

as promised, I performed a rough estimate on the mechanics involving a lunar transfer orbit. A more detailed, numerical calculation might follow in the next few days.

Heiwa, this should clear up that it is definitely possible to get to the moon (I admit that the actual orbit around the moon can not be calculated with this method, for this there will be the numerical integrator which might come later) and that you should never boost towards the moon. If you find any errors, please point them out.

Generally I would love if someone double-checked my math, the numbers do make sense but still..

The document can be found at https://www.docdroid.net/nSZ6vXb/moon.pdf.html

Hm, so you are in LEO at 200 000 m altitude with speed 7 788 m/s and then you blast off at a certain time to 10 921 m/s to enter a very elliptic orbit around Earth that touches the orbit of the Moon around Earth. But is the Moon there? And what do you do then?

Sorry, it seems you don't understand my suggestion #1, i.e. that "no spacecraft of any kind can carry enough fuel for any trip anywhere in space and return safely to Earth".

My suggestion #2 is that "you cannot predict the trajectory between Earth and the target in space to ensure that the target is there, when you arrive".  It means that you'll miss the target and continue into Universe.

My suggestion #3 is that "you cannot re-enter and land on the rotating Earth after a trip in space". You cannot find the location at the top of the atmosphere above Earth to start any landing attempt and regardless you cannot brake going through the atmosphere, so you are vaporized.

I explain more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm . Very popular! >200 visitors/day. All free! No adverts! Just FUN! It is only rocket science and orbital mechanics. Please do not suggest I lack understanding of them.
Translation: I don't understand it so it must not work.  Visit my website!!!!

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onebigmonkey

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 10:41:47 AM »
"I have decided it is impossible, therefore it is."

 ::)
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

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markjo

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 12:25:21 PM »
Hey,

as promised, I performed a rough estimate on the mechanics involving a lunar transfer orbit. A more detailed, numerical calculation might follow in the next few days.

Heiwa, this should clear up that it is definitely possible to get to the moon (I admit that the actual orbit around the moon can not be calculated with this method, for this there will be the numerical integrator which might come later) and that you should never boost towards the moon. If you find any errors, please point them out.

Generally I would love if someone double-checked my math, the numbers do make sense but still..

The document can be found at https://www.docdroid.net/nSZ6vXb/moon.pdf.html

Hm, so you are in LEO at 200 000 m altitude with speed 7 788 m/s and then you blast off at a certain time to 10 921 m/s to enter a very elliptic orbit around Earth that touches the orbit of the Moon around Earth. But is the Moon there? And what do you do then?
Why shouldn't the moon be right where calculations predict that it should be?

Sorry, it seems you don't understand my suggestion #1, i.e. that "no spacecraft of any kind can carry enough fuel for any trip anywhere in space and return safely to Earth".

My suggestion #2 is that "you cannot predict the trajectory between Earth and the target in space to ensure that the target is there, when you arrive".  It means that you'll miss the target and continue into Universe.

My suggestion #3 is that "you cannot re-enter and land on the rotating Earth after a trip in space". You cannot find the location at the top of the atmosphere above Earth to start any landing attempt and regardless you cannot brake going through the atmosphere, so you are vaporized.
And you don't seem to understand our suggestion that you aren't as smart as you think you are.

I explain more at http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm . Very popular! >200 visitors/day. All free! No adverts! Just FUN! It is only rocket science and orbital mechanics. Please do not suggest I lack understanding of them.
Oh, we aren't suggesting that you lack understanding.  We're saying it outright.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PHYSICS INVOLVED NEARLY AS WELL AS YOU THINK YOU DO.

I seriously hope that you aren't the smartest person at your safety at sea company.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Heiwa

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 03:27:59 PM »
Hey,

as promised, I performed a rough estimate on the mechanics involving a lunar transfer orbit. A more detailed, numerical calculation might follow in the next few days.

Heiwa, this should clear up that it is definitely possible to get to the moon (I admit that the actual orbit around the moon can not be calculated with this method, for this there will be the numerical integrator which might come later) and that you should never boost towards the moon. If you find any errors, please point them out.

Generally I would love if someone double-checked my math, the numbers do make sense but still..

The document can be found at https://www.docdroid.net/nSZ6vXb/moon.pdf.html

Hm, so you are in LEO at 200 000 m altitude with speed 7 788 m/s and then you blast off at a certain time to 10 921 m/s to enter a very elliptic orbit around Earth that touches the orbit of the Moon around Earth. But is the Moon there? And what do you do then?
Why shouldn't the moon be right where calculations predict that it should be?
Well, when you blast off from LEO you must first ensure that you are in the same plane as the Moon orbit. Space is 3D.
So your LEO plane must be same as the Moon orbit plane. If you blast off in the wrong direction, you will not arrive in the Moon orbit.
Second you must ensure that you arrive at the Moon orbit, when the Moon is there. The Moon orbits Earth in 28 days or so, i.e. it is moving all the time. If you blast off too early or late, you will arrive too early and too late.
Third - if you manage to arrive at the Moon orbit and the Moon is there, how do you avoid that Moon gravity pulls you down so you crash?
Rocket science is not easy. I explain all at my web site.

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frenat

  • 3601
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 03:55:49 PM »
Hey,

as promised, I performed a rough estimate on the mechanics involving a lunar transfer orbit. A more detailed, numerical calculation might follow in the next few days.

Heiwa, this should clear up that it is definitely possible to get to the moon (I admit that the actual orbit around the moon can not be calculated with this method, for this there will be the numerical integrator which might come later) and that you should never boost towards the moon. If you find any errors, please point them out.

Generally I would love if someone double-checked my math, the numbers do make sense but still..

The document can be found at https://www.docdroid.net/nSZ6vXb/moon.pdf.html

Hm, so you are in LEO at 200 000 m altitude with speed 7 788 m/s and then you blast off at a certain time to 10 921 m/s to enter a very elliptic orbit around Earth that touches the orbit of the Moon around Earth. But is the Moon there? And what do you do then?
Why shouldn't the moon be right where calculations predict that it should be?
Well, when you blast off from LEO you must first ensure that you are in the same plane as the Moon orbit. Space is 3D.
So your LEO plane must be same as the Moon orbit plane. If you blast off in the wrong direction, you will not arrive in the Moon orbit.
Second you must ensure that you arrive at the Moon orbit, when the Moon is there. The Moon orbits Earth in 28 days or so, i.e. it is moving all the time. If you blast off too early or late, you will arrive too early and too late.
Third - if you manage to arrive at the Moon orbit and the Moon is there, how do you avoid that Moon gravity pulls you down so you crash?
Rocket science is not easy. I explain all at my web site.

Thank you for proving AGAIN that you don't understand orbital mechanics.  If you did then you would not have written the above post.  All you've done is expose your ignorance.

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Kami

  • 993
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 06:17:33 PM »
Translation: I don't understand it so it must not work.  Visit my website!!!!
Thanks for that accurate translation. For a moment I had hoped that heiwa would actually read that.. But I guess that was foolish of me.

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disputeone

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2017, 06:29:36 PM »
Kami is a mathematical god...

No pun intended.

Alright, you got me, the pun was intentional.

Hopefully Totes can peer review the math.
BOTD member

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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markjo

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 06:42:58 PM »
Third - if you manage to arrive at the Moon orbit and the Moon is there, how do you avoid that Moon gravity pulls you down so you crash?
Pretty much the same way that Earth satellites deal with the fact that Earth gravity pulls them down.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Twerp

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“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 06:47:15 PM »
Well, when you blast off from LEO you must first ensure that you are in the same plane as the Moon orbit. Space is 3D.

Now you're getting it.


So your LEO plane must be same as the Moon orbit plane. If you blast off in the wrong direction, you will not arrive in the Moon orbit.

There you go.


Second you must ensure that you arrive at the Moon orbit, when the Moon is there. The Moon orbits Earth in 28 days or so, i.e. it is moving all the time. If you blast off too early or late, you will arrive too early and too late.

Uh oh.


Third - if you manage to arrive at the Moon orbit and the Moon is there, how do you avoid that Moon gravity pulls you down so you crash?

Oh, hell.


Rocket science is not easy. I explain all at my web site.

Tangerines look look small oranges, but, they don't taste like small oranges.
WTF is up with that?

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Heiwa

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 06:06:07 AM »
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=269.0

'Nuff said!

Exactly. If you find my rocket science is wrong, I'll pay you €1M. Isn't it generous?

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Heiwa

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 06:11:12 AM »
Translation: I don't understand it so it must not work.  Visit my website!!!!
Thanks for that accurate translation. For a moment I had hoped that heiwa would actually read that.. But I guess that was foolish of me.

No. I read your post and replied. Now you have to explain how to arrive at the Moon when it is there ... and then how you avoid a collision.

I am an expert of collisions - http://heiwaco.com/ce_collision.htm .

So how to avoid a Moon collision? You slow down? You turn? What do you do to enable a landing?

And what shall you do on the Moon after landing. Build a hotel. Plant strawberries?

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disputeone

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 06:43:18 AM »
Do the moonwalk, duh...
BOTD member

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

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onebigmonkey

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2017, 09:58:23 AM »
Now you have to explain how to arrive at the Moon when it is there ... and then how you avoid a collision.

You fire your engine to slow yourself down and get captured by lunar gravity. Duh.


Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2017, 10:58:31 AM »

I am an expert of collisions



No doubt.

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markjo

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2017, 12:09:51 PM »
I am an expert of collisions

No doubt.
But is he any good at avoiding collisions?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Bullwinkle

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2017, 12:29:13 PM »

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Kami

  • 993
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2017, 04:13:47 PM »
Translation: I don't understand it so it must not work.  Visit my website!!!!
Thanks for that accurate translation. For a moment I had hoped that heiwa would actually read that.. But I guess that was foolish of me.

No. I read your post and replied. Now you have to explain how to arrive at the Moon when it is there ... and then how you avoid a collision.

I am an expert of collisions - http://heiwaco.com/ce_collision.htm .

So how to avoid a Moon collision? You slow down? You turn? What do you do to enable a landing?

And what shall you do on the Moon after landing. Build a hotel. Plant strawberries?
Collisions between ships have nothing to do with orbital mechanics.

I explained how to arrive at the moon when it is there. When you now aim at a point that is close to the moon then you avoid a collision. More details will come when I write the simulator.

What you do on the moon has literally nothing to do with the topic.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 04:20:25 PM »

Collisions between ships have nothing to do with orbital mechanics.



Spinning around and crying for your mommy is a kind of orbit.

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Twerp

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 08:22:27 PM »
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=269.0

'Nuff said!

Exactly. If you find my rocket science is wrong, I'll pay you €1M. Isn't it generous?

You definitely owe the boys at apollohoax.

Also I believe you know a lot about collisions. It's clear you have had one too many!

Maybe you had an experience similar to Inti? Sixty punches to the head!
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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Heiwa

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 11:25:29 PM »
Translation: I don't understand it so it must not work.  Visit my website!!!!
Thanks for that accurate translation. For a moment I had hoped that heiwa would actually read that.. But I guess that was foolish of me.

No. I read your post and replied. Now you have to explain how to arrive at the Moon when it is there ... and then how you avoid a collision.

I am an expert of collisions - http://heiwaco.com/ce_collision.htm .

So how to avoid a Moon collision? You slow down? You turn? What do you do to enable a landing?

And what shall you do on the Moon after landing. Build a hotel. Plant strawberries?

Collisions between ships have nothing to do with orbital mechanics.

I explained how to arrive at the moon when it is there. When you now aim at a point that is close to the moon then you avoid a collision. More details will come when I write the simulator.

What you do on the moon has literally nothing to do with the topic.

It has. If both (space) crafts are moving, the probability is high that they will miss each other = no collision encounter = just a miss.

Do you know Mr. W Tell? He was Swiss and shot at an apple on the head of his son. You have to be clever hitting that apple. Now imagine Mr. Tell's son running with the apple on the head. Try to hit the apple then and tell me how you do it.

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Heiwa

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  • I have been around a long time.
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 11:29:42 PM »
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=269.0

'Nuff said!

Exactly. If you find my rocket science is wrong, I'll pay you €1M. Isn't it generous?

You definitely owe the boys at apollohoax.

Also I believe you know a lot about collisions. It's clear you have had one too many!

Maybe you had an experience similar to Inti? Sixty punches to the head!

It seems all punches miss.

?

Twerp

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  • 6539
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2017, 11:39:55 PM »
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=269.0

'Nuff said!

Exactly. If you find my rocket science is wrong, I'll pay you €1M. Isn't it generous?

You definitely owe the boys at apollohoax.

Also I believe you know a lot about collisions. It's clear you have had one too many!

Maybe you had an experience similar to Inti? Sixty punches to the head!

It seems all punches miss.
No they don't.
“Heaven is being governed by Devil nowadays..” - Wise

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scabbage

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2017, 02:02:59 AM »
If you find my rocket science is wrong, I'll pay you €1M. Isn't it generous?
I looked at your site, but you don't actually have any rocket science to debunk. The only thing you managed to do was do crude Google searches and quote NASA given information, before saying "nonsense!"

A very good safeguard for that €1M, to be sure (assuming it even exists).
c̴̢̧̛͉̰̬͓͙̼̹͚̠̱̱̝̝̠̤̼͎̠̺͔͔̞̼̞̩͖̬̗̼̞̻̖̞̞͙̃̍̄̓̆̂̇̽̊͑̽͆̈́̉̕͘͜͜͝͝a̸̧̛̦͍̘̣͖̮̻̙͖̯̮̼̲͈̖̹͖̘̺̲͙̦͇͍̖̝̾͌̐̉̊̓̔̓̀̀̐͒́͑̔͒͌̊̈́̉͑͛͑́́͗̾͐͗̊̐̌̔́́̽̚̕̚͝͠k̷̡̛̛͕̬̮̯̘̯̜̳͇͓͔̰̮͚͉͈̰͕̮̖̰̟̘̥̦͓̣̪͍̯̺̪̼̟̯͇͚̝̺̹̗̳͒̊̓̂̍̾́͐̃̈́͐̀̐̐͋̓̈́̐̿̽͌͊̌̏̎̈́̿͆̃̓̏̍͑̇́̆͋͑͒̑̀̚͘̚̕̚̚͠͝͝͝͠͝ͅe̶̛̎̅̑̎̂̎̿̔̊̈̒͆̄̎̀̈́̿̀̑͒̀̈́̀͂̓͌͊͛̀͝͠

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disputeone

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2017, 02:10:29 AM »
If you find my rocket science is wrong, I'll pay you €1M. Isn't it generous?
I looked at your site, but you don't actually have any rocket science to debunk. The only thing you managed to do was do crude Google searches and quote NASA given information, before saying "nonsense!"

A very good safeguard for that €1M, to be sure (assuming it even exists).

Theres been quite a lot of speculation on that, to be fair.
BOTD member

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this.

The reason I am consistently personally attacked here.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69306.msg1960160#msg1960160

?

Kami

  • 993
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2017, 02:12:28 AM »
Translation: I don't understand it so it must not work.  Visit my website!!!!
Thanks for that accurate translation. For a moment I had hoped that heiwa would actually read that.. But I guess that was foolish of me.

No. I read your post and replied. Now you have to explain how to arrive at the Moon when it is there ... and then how you avoid a collision.

I am an expert of collisions - http://heiwaco.com/ce_collision.htm .

So how to avoid a Moon collision? You slow down? You turn? What do you do to enable a landing?

And what shall you do on the Moon after landing. Build a hotel. Plant strawberries?

Collisions between ships have nothing to do with orbital mechanics.

I explained how to arrive at the moon when it is there. When you now aim at a point that is close to the moon then you avoid a collision. More details will come when I write the simulator.

What you do on the moon has literally nothing to do with the topic.

It has. If both (space) crafts are moving, the probability is high that they will miss each other = no collision encounter = just a miss.

Do you know Mr. W Tell? He was Swiss and shot at an apple on the head of his son. You have to be clever hitting that apple. Now imagine Mr. Tell's son running with the apple on the head. Try to hit the apple then and tell me how you do it.
Outer space is a little bit different from the sea. For starters, the spacecraft is attracted by the moon. Plus, you can predict movements very well as the only thing influencing the orbits is the (well-understood) force of gravity.

The apple thing: Easy - if he moves in a predictable pattern you calculate the time your arrow moves and see how much the child will move during that time. I did that. Just read the document.

?

Kami

  • 993
Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2017, 02:13:56 AM »
If you find my rocket science is wrong, I'll pay you €1M. Isn't it generous?
I looked at your site, but you don't actually have any rocket science to debunk. The only thing you managed to do was do crude Google searches and quote NASA given information, before saying "nonsense!"

A very good safeguard for that €1M, to be sure (assuming it even exists).

Theres been quite a lot of speculation on that, to be fair.
quite ;D

But well, I am not trying to win this "challenge", I am just here for the fun... I suppose the rest of you are as well.

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scabbage

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Re: Heiwas lack of understanding in orbital mechanics
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2017, 02:42:07 AM »
Yeah I'm here for lolz.

I read your paper by the way, I couldn't see anything erroneous with it other than not mentioning the fact that the spacecraft's orbit would have the barycentre of the Earth/Moon system at it's foci. It is quite a large difference relative to Earth (over 4000km from the planet's centre), but I guess this would come under the 5th simplification about the Moon's gravity.
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