Circular Reasoning?

Most of your arguments rest upon the presuppositions that NASA and the government have been lying to us. How, may I ask, do you know this?

This seems to be circular reasoning (your premise assumes the answer).
In order to think that the Earth is flat, you need to assume that all of these people are lying. You would need a reason to think that they are lying. You would think that the Earth is flat, therefor the government is lying.

The Earth is flat-I know because the government is lying-I know they are lying because they are hiding the truth that the Earth flat.

Also, on your FAQ, it states, "During the Cold War we faked the moon landing." This assumes that we faked the moon landing. If we did, then your argument stands. However, if we didn't fake it, then your argument is falsified. This again is circular reasoning.

I can reverse both of these claims at you. "I know the Earth is round because the government isn't lying." This is the reverse of "I know the Earth is flat since the government is lying." When you don't 100% know if they are lying or not, both claims are possible.

If I am wrong about the viewpoints, please correct me as I am new to this theory.

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Most of your arguments rest upon the presuppositions that NASA and the government have been lying to us. How, may I ask, do you know this?

May I ask, how do you know they are not?

#FESjustifyyourbeliefs.

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

Quote from: Boots on February 19, 2017, 07:19:09 PM

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

Then why is any evidence from NASA immediately dismissed as fake when trying to show that the view from "out your window" is not sufficient evidence to support the notion of a flat earth.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 20, 2017, 07:28:15 AM

Quote from: Boots on February 19, 2017, 07:19:09 PM

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

Then why is any evidence from NASA immediately dismissed as fake when trying to show that the view from "out your window" is not sufficient evidence to support the notion of a flat earth.

See, you are obsessed with the govt lying!

I see what you did there.

Issues with NASA are a conclusion, not a premise.

Quote from: Boots on February 19, 2017, 07:19:09 PM

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

So this photograph, not even from NASA, proves that the earth is a globe then?

That photo was taken at 01:40 UTC 12 February 2017 or 11:40 AM local time, downloaded it at 11:47 AM local time.

Of course, it is not shown rotating there, but I could get a time-lapse fro EPIC on DSCOVR to rectify that.

  So, shut up shop. The earth is proven to be a Globe. 

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 20, 2017, 07:28:15 AM

Quote from: Boots on February 19, 2017, 07:19:09 PM

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

So this photograph, not even from NASA, proves that the earth is a globe then?

So, shut up shop. The earth is proven to be a Globe. 

I agree with your proof.

But the OP was that the premise of the FE argument or belief was that NASA was lying. This is what I disagreed with.

Quote from: rabinoz on February 20, 2017, 09:04:10 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 20, 2017, 07:28:15 AM

Quote from: Boots on February 19, 2017, 07:19:09 PM

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

So this photograph, not even from NASA, proves that the earth is a globe then?

So, shut up shop. The earth is proven to be a Globe. 

I agree with your proof.

But the OP was that the premise of the FE argument or belief was that NASA was lying. This is what I disagreed with.

I wasn't questioning your premise.  All we need now is SCG's agreement. 

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 20, 2017, 07:28:15 AM

Quote from: Boots on February 19, 2017, 07:19:09 PM

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

So this photograph, not even from NASA, proves that the earth is a globe then?

Himawari Real-Time Image 01:40 UTC 12 February 2017, Full Disk, Full Color reproduction Image.

That photo was taken at 01:40 UTC 12 February 2017 or 11:40 AM local time, downloaded it at 11:47 AM local time.

Of course, it is not shown rotating there, but I could get a time-lapse fro EPIC on DSCOVR to rectify that.

  So, shut up shop. The earth is proven to be a Globe. 

Kindly point out what the measurements are of the supposed "globe," according to that picture...

Looks more like an egg to me.

Quote from: rabinoz on February 20, 2017, 09:04:10 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 20, 2017, 07:28:15 AM

Quote from: Boots on February 19, 2017, 07:19:09 PM

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original evidence for a flat earth was simply "Look out your window." This has nothing to do with NASA.

Exactly. FEers aren't nearly as obsessed with the govt lying as the RE who come here.

So this photograph, not even from NASA, proves that the earth is a globe then?

Himawari Real-Time Image 01:40 UTC 12 February 2017, Full Disk, Full Color reproduction Image.

That photo was taken at 01:40 UTC 12 February 2017 or 11:40 AM local time, downloaded it at 11:47 AM local time.

Of course, it is not shown rotating there, but I could get a time-lapse fro EPIC on DSCOVR to rectify that.

  So, shut up shop. The earth is proven to be a Globe. 

Kindly point out what the measurements are of the supposed "globe," according to that picture...

Looks more like an egg to me.

You do have funny eggs at your place.

On that small copy, the lit part of the earth is 572   pixels wide x 576 pixels high.
I had thought that even you might have recognised that a little of the top and left is not fully lit by the sun yet, so you are not seeing quite the full hemisphere.

That photo proves that someone can make pretty pictures.

That photo proves that someone can make pretty pictures.

Just a bit more than that. It proves that I can get the current version of that photo of the "Eastern Hemisphere" made to order in a few tens of minutes.That's the current image, taken 20 minutes ago.  Very fast little workers over there in Japan! 

They can make pretty pictures really fast! Don't know what this has to do with REers obsession with the lying govt.

They can make pretty pictures really fast! Don't know what this has to do with REers obsession with the lying govt.

It is more like Flattie's obsession that everyone else in lying as soon as any evidence against the flat earth pops up, which is every day!
But we all know that the FE is only propped up by its conspiracy claim:

P1) If personally unverifiable evidence contradicts an obvious truth then the evidence is fabricated

P2) The FET (Flat Earth Theory) is an obvious truth

P3) There is personally unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET

C1) The unverifiable evidence that contradicts the FET is fabricated evidence

P4) If there is large amounts of fabricated evidence then there must be a conspiracy to fabricate it

P5) There is a large amount of fabricated evidence (see C1)

C2) There must be a conspiracy to fabricate it.

And obviously satellite photos, astronomical observations, reports of others visiting Antarctica, reports of others performing measurements, etc are all (for most of us) personally unverifiable.

If all that isn't circular reasoning, I can't imagine what is!

To me it looks like as case of:
"The earth is flat" therefore "any (personally unverifiable) evidence agains the flat earth is fabricated" therefore "The earth is flat".
Or "The earth is flat" therefore "The earth is flat". QED

Yes, the earth is flat!

Yes, the earth is flat!

And your whole argument seems to be "the earth is flat" because "the earth is flat".
Any counter argument is automatically deemed false.
Mind you there is no consensus on even what this "flat earth" looks like.
          At last count, I saw at least four, plus of course, İntikam's.
Is there a South Pole?
Two "continental layouts" have a South Pole, but proponents of the others will argue quite vociferously that there is no South Pole.

And there is no consensus on what causes gravity.
          At last count, I saw at least six, plus of course, İntikam's.

Sure, you claim it's flat, but nobody has any idea what it looks like or how it works!
I claim it's a joke, at least until someone has some idea of how this flat earth works.

Look outside and see what it looks like.  Really, rab, you should go outside sometimes.

Look outside and see what it looks like.  Really, rab, you should go outside sometimes.

I often go outside, even at night and see the stars rotating clockwise about a single point due south.

I also see a horizon that doesn't fit any flat earth that I can imagine:

I don't know how you explain the horizon of the Flat Earth, but I have seen it explained as: "The atmolayer" not being "perfectly transparent, limits the range of our vision.
So it would seem that this fading into "a blur in all directions" would make the horizon a hazy blur with the distance unable to be estimated.

But we do not see that. What we see is more like in these photos:

To me, it proves that the horizon is comparatively close.

Then quite a small change in height changes the distance to the horizon quite markedly - why if the earth is flat?
In these the horizon is only a few kilometers away, so we see a sharp sky-sea horizon line. 

The latitude and longitude of the beacon were found from local navigational charts and this Google Earth view shows the location of that beacon as being 2.61 km from the beach (the camera has GPS to give its location).

With the Metabunk, Earth's Curve Horizon, Bulge, Drop, and Hidden Calculator we can check if the near water distance is reasonable.

Distance = 2.61 km, View Height = 0.54 meters, Radius = 6371 km
Horizon = 2.61 km, Bulge = 0.13 meters, Drop = 0.53 meters
Hidden = None, horizon is beyond the target distance

I should point out that I was crouching at the edge of the water (not wanting to get me or the camera wet) and did not measure the camera height, but 0.5 m or so seems right.

The nearest I can estimate is that the second photo was taken from about 3 m above water level (that's the extra elevation given on Google Earth).
For this height the "Metabunk, Earth's Curve Horizon, Bulge, Drop, and Hidden Calculator" gives the horizon distance 6.18 km.

Distance = 2.61 km, View Height = 3 meters, Radius = 6371 km.
Horizon = 6.18 km, Bulge = 0.13 meters
Drop = 0.53 meters, Hidden= None, horizon is beyond the target distance

There is no easy of estimating the horizon distance from the photograph from the photograph, but it is certainly well past the beacon's known 2.61 km.

This is a long-winded way of saying that I am certain that the horizon distance is quite within a visible distance and does increase with increased viewing height.

So yes, Mom, I do look outside and actually observe my surroundings, taking photos where appropriate.
And I realise that in Florida

So how do you explain the sharp near horizon that we see on the real earth?