Poll

What is the truth about the 911 attack on the World Trade Center?

Hijacked Planes were flown into the two towers.  Resulting fires caused the collapse.
14 (60.9%)
The planes were CGI and it was controlled demolition
2 (8.7%)
Something other than planes were flown into the twin towers,  missiles drones etc.
2 (8.7%)
The planes were holographic projections from a special satellite, and it was a directed energy weapon
1 (4.3%)
Something else.
3 (13%)
Denspressure
1 (4.3%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: March 06, 2017, 10:56:40 PM

911 What is the truth?

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3150 on: March 30, 2017, 04:23:18 PM »
The one that requires you to go buy an envelope and paper and write a letter and then buy a stamp and stick it on the envelope in order to contact them.

Edit: I thought that was all the options available from that link. Now I see you can call them or send an email from their page. So, I guess I'll retract my comment.  :)

Not at all, one issue is the threats and harrassment you get for being a professional "truther" I can fully understand these people not wanting their personal emails and phone numbers published on the internet.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Rayzor

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3151 on: March 30, 2017, 04:30:48 PM »

The collapse makes a bit more sense to me after having gotten hold of the plans.
That said, it is still a very strange collapse.
I have the manufacturers drawings, I want to look at the joints between the floor beams and the outer columns.
I feel there should have been more support provided from the outer skin.


I completely understand why people dont think it should have fallen.

I will try respond properly after I have gone over some more stuff.
But for now I have to go.


edited because South Africa's lingo is not international






See if this helps.  The paper notes that columns 79 and 80 were directly below the east penthouse.

http://www.structuremag.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov071.pdf
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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3152 on: March 30, 2017, 04:33:50 PM »

The collapse makes a bit more sense to me after having gotten hold of the plans.
That said, it is still a very strange collapse.
I have the manufacturers drawings, I want to look at the joints between the floor beams and the outer columns.
I feel there should have been more support provided from the outer skin.


I completely understand why people dont think it should have fallen.

I will try respond properly after I have gone over some more stuff.
But for now I have to go.


edited because South Africa's lingo is not international






See if this helps.  The paper notes that columns 79 and 80 were directly below the east penthouse.

http://www.structuremag.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov071.pdf

Is it just me? Or is there no citations on that document.

Nope, no citations.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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disputeone

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Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3154 on: March 30, 2017, 06:46:59 PM »
Here's a bit of speculation out of interest.

I'm not claiming this as evidence, merely coincidences. It can easily be ignored by most people.

To a ritual magician this being intentional seems as if it is absolutely unavoidable.

Great care is taken with symbolism and meaning in any ritual magick, for example masonic lodges are built in the cardinal directions, to face east you face east with the entire building, I am not so lucky and have to arrange a room to suit the cardinal directions east is slightly offset into the corner instead of running parallel to the room.

This is important to consider, any ritual done without proper respect and diligence to symbolism will surely fail.

The world is starting to wake up to magick, see memetic magick for example. I have been saying from the start it is actual group chaos magick they are performing, this was ignored until we had things happen in accordance with will that we are unable to explain.

https://bullshit.ist/meme-magic-is-real-you-guys-16a497fc45b3

Now people are really starting to look into how our will can shape our reality with correct symbolism and practice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic

This is important to consider when looking at the ritualistic aspects of 9/11.


>Twin Towers the same proportions as the Pillars Boaz and Jachin at The Temple of Solomon
>WTC7 renamed Soloman Brothers Building
>Temple of Solomon destroyed on Tisha B'Av: "9th day of the 11th month"
>Eleven years to the day before 9/11, HW Bush gives famous "New World Order" speech
>Eleven years to the day after 9/11, Benghazi happens
>Also on a 9-11, Kristallnacht, Chilean coup, Pentagon constrution
>10 is, in Kaballah, God/perfection. 11 is to exceed perfection (e.g. Apollo 11 first to land on the moon), 9 to 11 implies skipping past it
>Twin Towers form an 11 in the sky
>Each is 110ft tall
>Event happens roughly between 9-11am
>First plane to hit is AA11; AA is a "11".
>93 is Thelema, the principle of "do what thou wilt"
>Flight 93 in Shanksville
>First plane hits the 93rd floor, second hits at 9:03am
>Two planes hit the WTC, 11 and 175. Add these and split by two makes 93.


I am not putting this forward as evidence, mainly as curiousity to those that have accepted the towers collapse as impossible and are looking for motive.

The world and nature of our reality is far deeper than we know.

This is why I consider this a battle for our souls.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 06:56:41 PM by disputeone »
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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sokarul

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3155 on: March 30, 2017, 07:42:51 PM »
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3156 on: March 30, 2017, 07:54:17 PM »
Fire can't cause collapse?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/us/atlanta-i-85-fire/index.html

1/10 for effort...boo.

All concrete no steel framing (road mix of concrete is much different than on a high rise, much larger mix of water. The water can boil in a fire compromising stability of the concrete), much less mass...You know...I am not even going to continue with everything wrong in your insinuation. ::)

Not to mention, it started to collapse, then stopped. Then later finally collapsed...

Also, no one is saying firing cannot cause a building to have a Structural failure.
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sokarul

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3157 on: March 30, 2017, 08:10:22 PM »
So this line : "Reginald DesRoches, a professor at Georgia Tech University, said most structural materials lose strength when subjected to high temperature." only applies to road material, not building materials?
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Bom Tishop

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3158 on: March 30, 2017, 08:19:19 PM »
So this line : "Reginald DesRoches, a professor at Georgia Tech University, said most structural materials lose strength when subjected to high temperature." only applies to road material, not building materials?

What exactly is your argument?? Or do you just feel like arguing to argue?

No one has argued that....Least not here. Every degree of temp will weaken steel or concrete... You win ???

That is why buildings are designed to distribute the thermal load. Not even talking about fire, just day to day "normal existence"..

However, if we are going to look at fire as a potential cause of a structural failure of any design...We need to look at where the fire is, how hot it is, how much area it covers etc etc etc.

It is being presented that the fire present at 1, 2 ,7 did not meet the requirements for complete symmetric collapse. Possible localized asymmetric structural failures, even that is a bit iffy, though plausible.

Come on sokarul, are you just bored?
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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3159 on: March 30, 2017, 08:27:56 PM »
1/10 for effort...boo.

Trying to keep this thread clean but.


Symmetry of collapse and fall acceleration are out main arguments for wtc 7, saying, "it possibly could have collapsed" doesn't touch them.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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sokarul

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3160 on: March 30, 2017, 08:48:34 PM »
Just found it amusing the fire brought down the structure.
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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3161 on: March 30, 2017, 08:51:36 PM »
Just found it amusing the fire brought down the structure.

Could you please explain how it has anything to do with our arguments?

Fire damages things, I concede it.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3162 on: March 30, 2017, 08:58:21 PM »
I have spent time in Atlanta...Their traffic sucks at all hours, too many trees, not enough roads. This is going to be very bad for them.

That is strange.. just some random fire "40 foot high wall"...They were using foam too, apparently it would not go out. Looked hot too.

Very weird.... Terrorism or vandalism, how do you even do that without being seen on a highway? Maybe an entire package and drop it off then jet?
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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3163 on: March 30, 2017, 09:17:49 PM »
They've declined to comment on what caused the fire so far.

Now thats what I call a raging inferno, wow. I'm happy no one died.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3164 on: March 30, 2017, 09:38:29 PM »
This building was not designed like the WTC 1+2 buildings at all. Completely different structural system
It seems to be a typical domino structure braced on the other skin.

Babyhighspeed, unless I am missing a lot of bracing, this building did not have a stiff inner core.

Didn't see you post yesterday. PATH 1993 survey has good information (they also show the Salomon modifications).. I will see if I can get ahold of the prints again, I didn't pull them the last time. They may be on Google as well, I glanced, though there are others much better at the "internets" than I.

Mainly I found just a floor diag or two, which is of no good.

The core was stiff, just not to the level of wtc 1 or 2 below the 44th floor. However, it had to be stiff, especially in the lower levels, that is why elevator access was in goofy places, on some of the lower floors.

The biggest reason is from the gravity columns design on 5-7. This was in response to the substation below that was not rated for the total weight or sheer of a 40+ story building. So they added Caissons​ to the relatively small foundation...The gravity columns redirected loads to the small footprint. That is why the building had strange elevator access points..Also why the Solomon Brothers could build their design, which was basically a building inside a building, yet they had to do this on the upper floors, would have never worked on the lowers.

They also increased the stiffness of the lower core by further bracing it after this retrofit.

When I first saw 7 fall and was a believer in the official story, I thought there was a failure in the 5 floor diaphragm. However, after studying the design, that convinced me any extreme failure from fire on a lower floor would be prone to topple the building.

I will get more in-depth later, about to go out right now.
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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3165 on: March 30, 2017, 09:55:06 PM »
Wtc 7 had 29 high capacity, high speed commercial elevators in reinforced concrete shafts.

Access to these shafts would allow access to all of the vertical structural supports needed to destroy the core as we saw.

This applies to wtc 1 and 2 also, just on a much larger scale.

Interesting to consider.



Edit. Pic.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 10:01:36 PM by disputeone »
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3166 on: March 30, 2017, 10:08:21 PM »




Sorry, what?
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3167 on: March 31, 2017, 12:07:38 AM »
Didn't see you post yesterday. PATH 1993 survey has good information (they also show the Salomon modifications).. I will see if I can get ahold of the prints again, I didn't pull them the last time. They may be on Google as well, I glanced, though there are others much better at the "internets" than I.

Mainly I found just a floor diag or two, which is of no good.

The core was stiff, just not to the level of wtc 1 or 2 below the 44th floor. However, it had to be stiff, especially in the lower levels, that is why elevator access was in goofy places, on some of the lower floors.

The biggest reason is from the gravity columns design on 5-7. This was in response to the substation below that was not rated for the total weight or sheer of a 40+ story building. So they added Caissons​ to the relatively small foundation...The gravity columns redirected loads to the small footprint. That is why the building had strange elevator access points..Also why the Solomon Brothers could build their design, which was basically a building inside a building, yet they had to do this on the upper floors, would have never worked on the lowers.

They also increased the stiffness of the lower core by further bracing it after this retrofit.

When I first saw 7 fall and was a believer in the official story, I thought there was a failure in the 5 floor diaphragm. However, after studying the design, that convinced me any extreme failure from fire on a lower floor would be prone to topple the building.

I will get more in-depth later, about to go out right now.

I would like to see the retrofit, it might be substantially different to what I have.
What I am trying to figure out now is how the beams connecting to the outer skin sheared so easily. I have hundreds of manufacturing drawings, and don't have the time to go over all of them.

I really believe the the external walls had the ability to keep the building from toppling. Have you seen the structural elevations! The external skin was not going to let the building just fall over. It was designed to keep it together.
Maybe I can post an elevation here. But for me the drawings are clear to why the collapse was symmetrical, there was little chance of the building falling out of the external footprint.

Please see if you can find the retrofit drawings, might make a difference in my review.

So far the only internal bracing I am finding are trusses between columns
61-61A-62
73-76
74-77-80
Important to note, none of these trusses link to the external skin.

Wtc 7 had 29 high capacity, high speed commercial elevators in reinforced concrete shafts.

Access to these shafts would allow access to all of the vertical structural supports needed to destroy the core as we saw.

This applies to wtc 1 and 2 also, just on a much larger scale.

Interesting to consider.

I have basic drawings of the elevator shafts and one half assed engineering section of the stairs, so I might be missing a lot.
From what I have, the reinforced concrete is definitely not strong enough to support anything beyond the elevators and local structures. The wall thickness is too narrow on ground floor for what you would expect for a 20+ floor building. Same for the stair case. I dont have any architectural drawings, maybe those will tell a different story. The concrete around these structures is most probably for 2 reasons.
1 - elevator structures need a lot of anchoring points along the shaft. It is common practice to encase shafts in either brick work or concrete. Obviously brick work would not be used in such a high building.
2 - Fire escape stairs MUST have high fire rated walls. Its not uncommon to surround them in concrete even for much smaller buildings. I do not have a lot of experience with elevators that may be used during emergencies, as normal building elevators are not rated for use during evacuations. But if you are even considering this application for your elevators, you better be sure all the walls are fire rated at 4 hours + (not sure what USA requirements are)

And I found a specification that surrounds the steel with 5cm of concrete. 5cm of concrete can only be for fireproofing, it has no structural capacity.
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3168 on: March 31, 2017, 12:14:38 AM »



This is what the external skin looks like. These are not minor steel beams they where using to keep it together either. Godzilla would not have gotten through that. Somewhere I saw pictures of the collapsed WTC7 building rubble, you could still see pictures of the external structures still highly intact. I am not sure how this building could have fallen over unless the external structure was severed first.

edit note


This is the east elevation, west looks similar. The east and west elevations are heavily braced, more so than North and South, this is because the edison substation is below the northern facade. So the buildings moments have to be pulled back to support the large spans and overhangs on the Northern facade. This is what would have to be destroyed before the building can have a non-symmetrical collapse.
Northern face is lighter than above, and south is fairly strong, but not as stiff as east or west.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 12:21:41 AM by MaNaeSWolf »
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3169 on: March 31, 2017, 12:16:15 AM »
You are a champion MaNaeSWolf.

Your honesty and integrity are to be commended.

I'm an elevator technician by trade.

Edit.

All commercial elevators shafts are fireproofed by code in Aus.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 12:25:39 AM by disputeone »
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3170 on: March 31, 2017, 12:28:08 AM »
You are a champion MaNaeSWolf.

Your honesty and integrity are to be commended.

I'm an elevator technician by trade.

Edit.

All commercial elevators shafts are fireproofed by code in Aus.

Thanks, its a far more fun discussion that most things here at The Flat Earth Society at the moment.

We have fairly good fireproofing codes in South Africa too, our regulators seem to just copy UK and Aus standards.


edit because auto-correct is stupid

wait, I had to do this twice now. (edit number 3), the abbreviation for The Flat Earth Society automatically adjusts to "google"?! It does not even ask me to adjust it! CONSPIRACY!!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 12:31:31 AM by MaNaeSWolf »
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3171 on: March 31, 2017, 12:45:07 AM »
T.FES. without the dot changes to Google.

There's a filter.

Something something other site. Definitely a conspiracy ;)
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3172 on: March 31, 2017, 01:16:08 AM »
Lets use NIST buckling model for example, they claim the outer and inner structure at the bottom pretty well "ceased to exist" which allowed a 2.25 second free-fall.



Now we have a very stiff cross braced outer structure which has apparently completely vaporized on the lower floors, (7-14) which allowed the tower to fall with no / negligible structural resistance. I understand the outer structure isn't vertically load bearing and wouldn't hold the entire weight of the building without the core, 100% paid.

I'll pay up to the fires causing the collapse of the core. (Dubious) How did we have such symmetry after the external structure was severed / buckled. According to the NIST model, and due to the varying stiffness we should not have seen such symmetry during free-fall.



I agree that the symmetry isn't a smoking gun nor is the free-fall. It's the combination of the two which I believe are impossible.

A progressive, reasonably symmetrical collapse with such a strong outer frame (leaving out how fires completely destroyed the core) after the core was removed isn't that unlikely, however at free-fall?

We still have the problem of a crossbraced outer structure collapsing into itself very close to 9.8m/s2 even if for the sake of simplicity we assume the entire inner structure was destroyed. (In video evidence we can see the tower start it's free-fall with a lot of the west side of the interior still reasonably intact.)

I understand lift shafts arent load bearing in and of themselves always but we have say (estimating) 250mm thick concrete shafts reinforced with reebar and braced to the support structures, we then have two T 150mm by 16mm rails and two T 100mm by 8mm counterweight rails, these are pinned into the concrete every 1500mm with an average of six 12mm high tensile trubolts, the shaft is absolutely over designed for the lifts, nearly all of the static load is taken through the rails into the concrete slab, dynamic loads are taken through the shaft by the rails and rail brackets.

My point is this is a very stiff, very strong structure that has actually gained stiffness and strength from the high tensile metal.

I can't understand how the whole building fell into itself at free-fall after a single column failure.



Partial collapse slower than free-fall?
Absolutely would have bought it.

Sorry for the tl:dr.

Edit, sorry for the lame vid, got me with a good title... there are still a few views of the collapse can just watch with the sound off.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 01:28:47 AM by disputeone »
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3173 on: March 31, 2017, 01:42:53 AM »
And then no building codes where changed after 9/11. I would have banned buildings like wtc 7 if that's what happens with a smaller than average office fire.

The architects and especially engineers who designed wtc 7 should have gone to jail. Failing that I believe people in the construction company who built wtc 7 should have gone to jail.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Rayzor

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3174 on: March 31, 2017, 04:10:01 AM »
And then no building codes where changed after 9/11. I would have banned buildings like wtc 7 if that's what happens with a smaller than average office fire.

The architects and especially engineers who designed wtc 7 should have gone to jail. Failing that I believe people in the construction company who built wtc 7 should have gone to jail.

Wrong.  Many changes  30 or so design recommendations  and 17 ICC code changes,  maybe others.  were made after 9/11.    http://www.ctbuh.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=%2BYb7cly6880%3D&tabid=2684&language=en-US


« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 04:12:15 AM by Rayzor »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3175 on: March 31, 2017, 04:27:10 AM »
That document only concerns wtc 1 and 2 please try to keep up.

Why not address my argument?
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Rayzor

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3176 on: April 02, 2017, 01:57:53 AM »
That document only concerns wtc 1 and 2 please try to keep up.

Why not address my argument?

What argument was that?   Are you going to argue that the ICC code changes don't apply to WTC7?

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3177 on: April 02, 2017, 02:00:02 AM »
Rayzor see how MaNaeSWolf can debate with integrity?

Why can't you?
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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Rayzor

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3178 on: April 02, 2017, 02:04:35 AM »
Rayzor see how MaNaeSWolf can debate with integrity?

Why can't you?

So asking you what your argument actually is, in your weird opinion space  indicates a lack of integrity.   Oh, well,  back to the ignore bin for you.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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disputeone

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Re: 911 What is the truth?
« Reply #3179 on: April 02, 2017, 02:07:27 AM »
Well, I think we can start to address how a single column failure can lead to a symmetrical collapse at freefall.

The thermal expansion model NIST used has been shown to be dubius at best. No one has been able to get their results with NIST's numbers which, imo, screams dishonesty.

I will allow the thermal expansion to cause a failure in column 79, How did the failure of a single column lead to the symmetrical free-fall collapse of an asymmetrical building subject to asymmetrical damage.

My position is that the core was destroyed by explosives before pulling the rest of the building down with smaller charges.

Video evidence supports this, we see the core collapse while the building holds steady then with a great deal of the interior left the building falls symmetrically very close to 9.81m/s2.

I am arguing that the remaining supports would cause an asymmetrical collapse or even a slow progressive collapse much slower than the acceleration of gravity. However I would predict both an asymmetrical collapse and a fall acceleration much slower than 9.81m/s2.

Lets use NIST buckling model for example, they claim the outer and inner structure at the bottom pretty well "ceased to exist" which allowed a 2.25 second free-fall.



Now we have a very stiff cross braced outer structure which has apparently completely vaporized on the lower floors, (7-14) which allowed the tower to fall with no / negligible structural resistance. I understand the outer structure isn't vertically load bearing and wouldn't hold the entire weight of the building without the core, 100% paid.

I'll pay up to the fires causing the collapse of the core. (Dubious) How did we have such symmetry after the external structure was severed / buckled. According to the NIST model, and due to the varying stiffness we should not have seen such symmetry during free-fall.



I agree that the symmetry isn't a smoking gun nor is the free-fall. It's the combination of the two which I believe are impossible.

A progressive, reasonably symmetrical collapse with such a strong outer frame (leaving out how fires completely destroyed the core) after the core was removed isn't that unlikely, however at free-fall?

We still have the problem of a crossbraced outer structure collapsing into itself very close to 9.8m/s2 even if for the sake of simplicity we assume the entire inner structure was destroyed. (In video evidence we can see the tower start it's free-fall with a lot of the west side of the interior still reasonably intact.)

I understand lift shafts arent load bearing in and of themselves always but we have say (estimating) 250mm thick concrete shafts reinforced with reebar and braced to the support structures, we then have two T 150mm by 16mm rails and two T 100mm by 8mm counterweight rails, these are pinned into the concrete every 1500mm with an average of six 12mm high tensile trubolts, the shaft is absolutely over designed for the lifts, nearly all of the static load is taken through the rails into the concrete slab, dynamic loads are taken through the shaft by the rails and rail brackets.

My point is this is a very stiff, very strong structure that has actually gained stiffness and strength from the high tensile metal.

I can't understand how the whole building fell into itself at free-fall after a single column failure.



Partial collapse slower than free-fall?
Absolutely would have bought it.

Sorry for the tl:dr.

Edit, sorry for the lame vid, got me with a good title... there are still a few views of the collapse can just watch with the sound off.

Have at it.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.